Whatever happened to PMP ammo?


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Halo
March 14, 2008, 11:05 AM
Is PMP still imported? I don't see it around anymore. It's South African, and I always thought it was pretty good ammo with reloadable cases.

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MakAttak
March 14, 2008, 11:21 AM
Never heard of PMP ammo.

I would think it sold well with a certain type of criminal element.

(Hint: It's missing a vowel)

hanno
March 14, 2008, 11:26 AM
Pretoria Metal Pressings (PMP) is great ammo - clean, accurate, noncorrosive. I recently sold 3000 rounds of PMP .303 milsurp that I had stockpiled some years back. It went pretty quick.

There was a time when PMP milsurp was readily available and relatively inexpensive. Those days, like the days of the $100 EG Maks, are gone.

My local gun shop used to carry the commercial PMP .30/06 in 20 round boxes but I haven't seen that for awhile.

Stump Water
March 14, 2008, 11:29 AM
Still in business I reckon.

http://www.pmp.co.za/

Halo
March 14, 2008, 03:09 PM
I remember Century used to carry a lot of PMP's commercial ammo, and it was frequently found at gun shows around 98-2002, but I haven't seen it anywhere in a good while. Does anyone recall who the main importer was?

Dumpster Baby
March 14, 2008, 04:58 PM
Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System
International Finance Discussion Papers
Number 839
September 2005

Effects of Financial Autarky and Integration: The Case of the
South Africa Embargo
Brahima Coulibaly*
September 2005

Abstract

The economic embargo imposed on South Africa between 1985 and 1993 brought the country
closer to financial isolation. This paper interprets the imposition and removal of the embargo as
financial autarky and financial integration ‘natural experiments’, and studies the effects on the
economy. The aggregate data indicate a decrease in the levels and growth rates of investment,
capital, and output during the embargo period relative to the pre-embargo and post-embargo
periods. To further rationalize the findings in the aggregate data, we calibrate a neoclassical
growth model to the South African economy. During the transition to steady-state, we model the
embargo by limiting the country’s ability to borrow for a period corresponding to the duration of
the embargo. The derived dynamics for investment, capital, and output support the view of a
positive (negative) link between financial integration (isolation) and economic growth.

Between 1985 and 1993 the world imposed economic sanctions on South Africa to put pressure
on its apartheid regime (a political system that granted different rights to citizens based on race).
At that time, foreign investors withdrew their capital from the country and stopped making new
investments in and loans to South Africa. As a result, net capital inflows declined drastically. In
this paper, we exploit the unique reversion toward financial autarky during the embargo period and
reintegration into the world economy in the post-embargo period to study the economic benefits of
financial integration for an emerging economy.

and so on..........

***************************************************

Man, I hate quoting Noam Chomsky


The United States and the "Challenge of Relativity"
Noam Chomsky

[snip]

As an outgrowth of the popular movements of the 1960s, Congress imposed human rights conditions on military aid and trade privileges, compelling the White House to find various modes of evasion. These became farcical during the Reagan years, with regular solemn pronouncements about the "improvements" in the behavior of client murderers and torturers that elicited much derision from human rights organizations, but no policy change. The most extreme examples, hardly worth discussing, involved U.S. clients in Central America. There are other less egregious cases, beginning with the top recipient of U.S. aid (Israel) and running down the list. Israel's "systematic torture and ill-treatment of Palestinians under interrogation" has repeatedly been condemned by Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International (along with apparent extrajudicial execution; legalization of torture; imprisonment without charge, for as long as nine years for some of those kidnapped in Lebanon; and other abuses). U.S. aid to Israel is therefore illegal under U.S. law, HRW and AI have insistently pointed out (as is aid to Egypt, Turkey, Colombia and other high-ranking recipients). In the most recent of its annual reports on U.S. military aid and human rights, AI observes -- once again -- that "Throughout the world, on any given day, a man, woman or child is likely to be displaced, tortured, killed or `disappeared,' at the hands of governments or armed political groups. More often than not, the United States shares the blame," a "practice that "makes a mockery of [congressional legislation] linking the granting of US security assistance to a country's human rights record." Such contentions elicit no interest or response in view of the "general tacit agreement" that laws are binding only when power interests so dictate.

The strongest popular support for sanctions was with regard to South Africa. After much delay and evasion, sanctions were finally imposed in 1985 and (over Reagan's veto) in 1986, but the Administration "created glaring loopholes" that permitted U.S. exports to increase by 40% between 1985 and 1988 while U.S. imports increased 14% in 1988 after an initial decline. "The major economic impact was reduced investment capital and fewer foreign firms."

[snip]

***************************************************

Bottom line, South Africa got embargoed for apartheid, and there went the PMP. :cuss:

And the Cheetah brass cased 7.62x39 from Zimbabwe....... :cuss:

Halo
March 14, 2008, 05:10 PM
I don't think apartheid had anything to do with it. PMP was being imported into the USA years after the end of apartheid, but has seemingly dried up as late.

DrewH
March 14, 2008, 05:16 PM
Apartheid ended well before PMP entered the country. Final transition to the new government was 1994 or thereabouts. PMP was imported around the end of the 1990s, early 2000s as posted above.

Heck the only reason South Africa made PMP in the first place was because of the embargo, it was part of their attempt to make themselves military self-sufficient, also as noted.

IIRC the new government banned export of military surplus not too long ago. That is why you dont see thise 5.56mm South African battle packs any more. Maybe they banned new ammo exports also? Anybody know?

I liked PMP and would buy it again at the prices it sold at.

Moonclip
March 14, 2008, 07:09 PM
I used to use a lot of the 9x19 and someone I knew swore by it.

Halo
March 15, 2008, 03:25 PM
I've contacted them directly and will post any response I get. There's plenty of other good ammo out there, but I'm a sucker for the exotic I guess. :)

RockyMtnTactical
March 15, 2008, 06:12 PM
I have fired thousands of rounds of their .223 down the barrels of my AR15's. It was excellent ammo.

Wish I could get my hands on some more.

I recall buying 500 rounds of it for $80 just about 4 years ago... Wow, I should have stocked up... :banghead:

armoredman
March 15, 2008, 07:06 PM
I was told they were sold per destruction of surplus, under UN rules, to a German firm, and then resold intact in the US. PMP brass is my favorite for reloading 9mm. I could get 25 round packs of 115gr 9mm PMP for less than $4 about 7 years ago...

valtr0n
March 15, 2008, 07:12 PM
The gun store here got a case of PMP in about a month ago. $8 a box, it sold pretty quick. I don't know if someone brought it in and he bought it from them, or if he found some place to get it, but he still has about 3 or 4 boxes left.

cornman
March 15, 2008, 09:42 PM
Noam Chomsky is a TRUE Patriot. We could use more men like him in Washington. Instead we have ignorant cowboys who know nothing but arrogance and greed.

jungleroy
March 15, 2008, 09:59 PM
I liked the 168 grain PMP 30 . 06 loads, they gave great groups in my old Springfield.
If anyone finds a place that sells them, I would love to hear about it.

Halo
March 17, 2008, 08:36 AM
I heard back from PMP's director of marketing for North America. He said their ammo is not presently distributed in the USA but they are working on re-entering the American market. He said an unfavorable exchange rate is what's keeping them out for the time being.

foghornl
March 17, 2008, 08:40 AM
I had bought 300 or so rounds of PMP soft-point .30-06, in both PMP brown boxes and Pro-Amm blue boxes. It gave me slightly better groups than the same weight Rem Core-Lokt in my Mossberg ATR-100.

If it becomes available again, I'll buy a bunch more.

Liberty1776
March 17, 2008, 10:34 AM
That would be great if they can bring it back. It was always my "cheap ammo of choice" when cruising the aisles of gunshows. Case in Point: -- got a Remington 788 carbine in .243. Bought a box of PMP 100 gr. soft point to sight it in. Once sighted in, first 3-shot group went 5/8". Not looking for anything else to shoot in this gun...just wished I had bought about 10 boxes...:D

Dravur
March 17, 2008, 10:49 AM
Wow, I haven't had a laugh like that in a long time.

TexasRifleman
March 17, 2008, 11:05 AM
The United Nations has a "Small Arms Proliferation" thing in place and they basically threaten to withhold funs for developing nations if they export guns or ammo.

This is the same reason we can't buy South African Battlepack .308 anymore. There are tons of that ammo left in the world, they just can't export any more or they get their UN handout severed.

There will be more of these as the UN expands this project. If there's a foreign made ammo you like that's cheap now, stock up.

armoredman
March 17, 2008, 12:12 PM
Who's Noam Chomskey?

newsmonster
March 17, 2008, 05:14 PM
Denel, the parent company of PMP makes(made) everything from 22lr to military weapons\ammo. Their ammo is of good quality, but...

1. They sell (sold) ammo much cheaper in the USA than over here (a big screw you to South Africans). This became public knowledge a few years ago. Many angry letters to the editor, outraged shooters boycotting PMP.

2. They have stopped making 22LR. What are we going to plink with now?

3. Denel is basically bankrupt, the gov pours billions into it just to see it dissapear,

4. I've personally never seen any surplus ammo being sold to South Africans. They apparently just ship it of to the US.


No matter, in a few years I'll be out of this place.

funkerbunny
March 17, 2008, 07:43 PM
I still have a couple boxes of 9x19 from pmp that was manufactured on Halloween that Ive been saving in case of zombie invasion. Picked it up for 7$ per 50 a couple years ago . Would be great for some new stock to come in though.

Dumpster Baby
March 17, 2008, 11:55 PM
Who's Noam Chomskey?

One of the most hateful, virulent anti-American leftist commie scumbags the world has ever seen. Think Ramsey Clark multiplied by 100.

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