[David4516]

A friend of mine invited me to go with him later this spring to hunt bear in eastern Oregon.

I've never hunted bear before, only deer (and elk for one season). In fact I know almost nothing about bear hunting, and will be depending on my friend to show me the ins and outs...

Which leads me to my question: I am wondering if my rifle is suitable for bear. I've got a Ruger M77 in .280 Remington. I'm assuming it will do the job (black bear are not that big as far as bears go), but I thought I'd best ask folks who have actually done this before.

Also, what ammo would you recommend? I'm assuming heavy (for 7mm) bullets, like 160gr or 175gr?

For those of you who have taken bear, what caliber rifle did you use, and how did it preform?

Thanks in advance!

[BroughtEnoughGun]

The .22 short has killed the most animals on the planet, why? because good shot placement.its not the bullet or the weight or the speed its traveling at. Its 99% shot placement. If you learn where the vitals are and can place your shots accurately, you will definitely have enough gun. A .280 would do excellent.
But as far as ammo to use, Good factory ammo I like are:
Federal Barnes TSX bullets
Winchester XP3's
Remington Premier A-Frames

those are my choices, and for my caliber I prefer my .300 Win Mag. And for wild boar or Bear, I 100% of the time will be carrying the heaviest gr. bullets those are offered in. because If youre looking for a big bear or a big pig, you should have the means to take it, best as you can.

[Regolith]

.280 should work for black bear. Go with a heavy, well constructed bullet.

[bdg146]

A heavier bullet would be better, but I wouldn't sacrifice accuracy for weight. If you can find a heavy load that your .280 likes, use it, otherwise, use what works well in your rifle.

For example, I used to use 130 grain Core-Lokt in my .270, which worked great, but my rifle didn't seem to like the 150 grain Core-Lokt. I went for bear this past winter and decided to try 150s again. This time I tried Hornady and was pleased with the results so I went with those. The important thing is to figure out what your rifle will shoot well. I guess my recommendation would be to try Hornady first... for me, their ammunition has always performed top notch.

Edit: Just saw Hornady only offers 139 grain .280 rounds. Oh well. At any rate, I wouldn't hesitate using a 139 grain load on a bear if it shoots well.

[MCgunner]

.30-30 is PLENTY for bear. .280 is overkill. If I hunted 'em, my .357 lever gun would be enough.

[BIGR]

.280 will be plenty for ol blackie.

[David4516]

Thanks for all the info thus far.

I've found that finding factory ammo for .280 in anything larger than 140gr is a pain. Dang...

I do reload but I moved recently and all my equipment is currently in storage in another state... But I might have to make a special trip to pick it up for this if I can't find a good factory load. I do have a box of Speer "hot cor" 160gr bullets that I could use, and plenty of IMR 4350...

I'm looking at the 165gr Remington "green box" ammo:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=183560&t=11082005

Too bad it's out of stock at Midway. Anyone know of another site where I could order this stuff?

They do have the 150gr rounds in stock, also with the core-lokt bullet:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=183101&t=11082005

bdg146, I've had good experiences with Hornady as well. I'm just not sure that the 139gr SST was constructed with bear in mind. I bet it would be perfect for deer...

The Nosler 160gr partition looks like it might be perfect, but I'm not sure about the price tag:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=419195&t=11082005

$50 per box? Ouch...

MCgunner, It's funny you should mention .30-30 Winchester. My other hunting rifle happens to be a Winchester model 94 in .30-30, I like the 170gr bullets. Never really thought about bringing it on a bear hunt, but now I wonder...

[BIGR]

Try this link for some 160's. I have bought from this company before, they are decent on their prices.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/department.asp?dept=%41%4D%4D%55%4E%49%54%49%4F%4E&dept2=%43%45%4E%54%45%52%46%49%52%45%20%52%49%46%4C%45&dept3=%32%38%30%20%52%45%4D%49%4E%47%54%4F%4E&dept4=%42%49%47%20%47%41%4D%45

[Cain R]

140gr Nosler Partition or the Accubond. Even for the big Alberta Black Bear I hunt all the time most blacks even the 300-400 ld'ers aren't all that tough. A reasonable well constructed bullet is all you need. I would stay away from light jacketed bullets like a Nosler Ballistic Tip or the Sierra Boat Tail thow.

[1/4MOA]

Folks i'm going to have to disagree in a lot of ways with some of the commets. Me and the fellas i hunt with killed 11 bears this year. Biggest was 565 lb, smallest was a 320lb sow, average weight prob in the mid-upper 400's.

We run bears with dogs(redbones, plotts, black&tans, etc) and bay or tree them. Mostly bay these big bears. Theyll bay the bear up and we crawl in the bay after him. That being said, if you have plans to come with us and bear hunt with a .280, you can stay at the truck. We use .444's, .45-70's, something big that can stop the bear.

I'm take it you'll be still hunting bears where you'll be going. I killed one still hunting about 3 years ago that was only 300lbs, shot him with a 7MM with 160's i believe and didnt even get an exit wound at 100yds. Broke both shoulders and he still went 80yds or so.

I'm not saying that a .280 wont kill a bear, i believe that it certainly will with a lung shot. But if you have a buddy that has a .300 win mag ask him if you can use it. They can be very dangerous critters and if you stumble across one walking to a stand and he charges, i def dont want a .280 in my hands.

Good luck to you, safety first, and say your prayers cause i've witnessed some crazy stuff in the bear woods.

[TCB in TN]

I'm take it you'll be still hunting bears where you'll be going. I killed one still hunting about 3 years ago that was only 300lbs, shot him with a 7MM with 160's i believe and didnt even get an exit wound at 100yds. Broke both shoulders and he still went 80yds or so.

So your bullet broke BOTH shoulders, and you are complaining about its performance? :uhoh:

Now I like the DRT shots, just like everyone else, but a shot breaking both front shoulders is just fine exit wound or not. I have not hunted bear, but have taken several good hogs (largest about 375 and seen other larger ones taken) and I have seen them do some serious damage to both dogs, and man, but take out both front shoulders and you have done what you need to even if it does crawl another 80 yards after.

[Ridgerunner665]

With Barnes TSX or Nosler Partition bullets (or any good bullet designed to penetrate) the 280 is plenty of gun for black bears...just be sure to use good bullets of at least 140 grains (except in the case of the Barnes TSX bullets...they are all copper and a little lighter....but they will penetrate like no other)

[Leanwolf]

I've only killed one Black bear with my .280 Remington. Shot it walking at about 90 yards with my handload, a 160 grains Nosler Partition bullet and 54.0 grains of IMR 4350.

Right behind the right shoulder, through the lungs and exited the left shoulder. Bear ran about six or eight steps and fell over. The bullet was not recovered.

The bear weighed about 275 pounds.

Not saying the .280 Remington is perfect for bears, but mine worked for me.

Good luck on your hunt.

FWIW.

L.W.

[langenc]

Al;l those 400# bear probably weigh about like the last one-275.

280 will knock em dead. One in the lungs and it is dead-it may not know it for a while. Rem CL are good.

[Sunray]

Your deer load will work just fine. Even for a plus 300 pound black bear.

[David4516]

Update:

I ended up driving down to my dad's place and borrowing his reloading press. Made up a batch of .280s using 160gr Speer bullets and 50gr of IMR 4350. If my reloading manual is telling me the truth, these should do about 2800 FPS

It sounds similar to the load that Leanwolf described in his post.

Will test these out at the range next weekend and see how they do. Might chronograph them as well...

Thanks again for all the input everyone.

[1/4MOA]

Fellas I'm not saying that the .280 wont do it. But these thick Carolina bays are so thick that it you can crawl into one and stand up you cant fall over cause its so thick. If anyone has been here you'd know what i mean. I dont mind so much crawling within 10 ft of a live bear when the dogs are there but crawling after a wounded bear aint fun. I want him stopped where he is.

And yes when i say 400lbs, i mean 400lbs. A few years ago some fellas up in Craven Co killed one that was 880lbs. He was stealing a hog a day out of a dead box. Bears in eastern NC are some of the biggest black bears in the world and you never know what size bear is going to show. Alot of the guys that still hunt them up in Hyde county use .338's and every year there are several bears killed over 600lbs. Skulls are alway little but huge bodies, with 3-4 inches of fat on them. I guess i just like to be prepared.

[JohnBT]

I've been there and I'd want a .444 or something similar to take into the thick cover. You just never know when you'll run across a large bear.

I couldn't find a pic, but here's an article on a big Maryland bear.

_______

Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, October 23, 2007; 1:22 PM

A D.C. photography student wielding a rifle instead of a camera yesterday shot the largest black bear since Maryland reauthorized hunting four years ago.

Coty Jones, 20, a junior at Corcoran College of Art and Design, brought down a 615-pound, eight-foot-tall black bear on the first day of black bear season. The previous record was a 496-pound male killed in 2004.

Jones, a Dorchester County resident, told the Baltimore Sun that she and her father, Phillip Jones, were sitting in a tree stand in Garrett State Forest and spotted the bear shortly after sunrise. She said she froze when she saw the bear; her father said she was shaking.

Steadying herself, she dispatched the male bear with two shots. It took eight men two hours to drag the animal the length of five football fields.

[T.R.]

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/black_bear_pic_.jpg

This older Winchester got the job done. I'm certain your 280 is up to the task.
TR

[Ridgerunner665]

T.R.,

I been waiting on that, I have killed a few bears myself...every single one was killed with a lever action 30-30...what has gotten into people these days...they are animals of flesh and blood...not armor plated beasts from a science fiction movie. Jeez...everybody thinking you have to have a 300 Win Mag to kill a bear...what is the world coming to.

[Selfdfenz]

"If anyone has been here you'd know what i mean."

I sure do. :)

Best,
S-

[Ridgerunner665]

I been there too...I'm only a few miles from Asheville, NC. The cover is thick in places...thats why I like lever guns. 30-30 works fine....but if a person prefers a 45-70 that will work too....but the point is....a 280 with a good bullet is a more potent pill than either of them.

[JohnBT]

"...what has gotten into people these days..."

I know what you're getting at, but some people have had a different experience.

One of my uncles always used a Marlin .35 Rem. That or a .30-30 or an old WWI rifle were what most of the old-timers used from what I saw when I was a kid. One year he got the biggest VA bear west of the Blue Ridge. I believe it was '63. I'm still trying to get that rifle away from his daughter.

Well, I think it changed for some of them the day in 1955 when my father, a different uncle and my grandfather were strolling up a logging trail next to the creek that ran down to my grandparents' home. They were going up and the angry bear was coming down. Three fellas had been pushing it for a couple of days and it was right sore. Being that the hollow had steep sides, nobody had anywhere to go except into the creek and that's where the bear went, followed by my grandfather's dog Sparky.

The dog got swatted around a bit, but the bear eventually died of birdshot wounds from two 12s and a 20. They were just about out of ammo to hear my uncle tell it. They weren't really hunting, just out for an afternoon walk after a big lunch.

What does it prove? Nothing maybe other than that an arm's length close-up view of an irate bear can change your way of thinking.

That reminds me, somewhere at home I have a pic of my great uncle Andy and 3 of his bears. He was one of the ones who used an old WWI-era rifle.

John

[T.R.]

Ridgerunner:

Magazine writers such as Craig Boddington typically have the word "magnum" in each and every article the same number of times. Count 'em up if you disbelieve me. Over the years, the number of photos with dead animals and bolt action rifles has increased. These subtle marketing techniques have gradually numbed the minds of many hunters.

Yet there are more NEW 30-30 rifles to choose from than ever before! I'm glad yet I'm perlexed at the same time.

I grew up with ranchers who hunted elk with 30-30 carbines. Many local sportsmen considered 300 Savage lever action rifles even better. A tough old sheep herder we knew had an older 8mm Mauser that fired American ammo loaded down to about same ballistics as 32 Special. These men got close and made their first shot count. They shot again if the animal was still on its feet. No magnums were used but the animals became neatly stacked packages of tasty meat all the same.

I'm not against magnums. Just don't perceive the need to own one.

TR

[Ridgerunner665]

That last sentence said it all... I agree 100%.

I do own a few magnums...and I have 3 different rifles chambered in 350 Rem Mag (a proven bear killer....even the big brown ones)...but in thick cover in the mountains of northeast Tennessee and western North Carolina...I'd rather have my old 30-30 than anything.

[salthouse]

You can get Nosler Partions in 175gr from Conley Precision cpcartridge.com http://cpcartridge.com/cart2/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_39&sort=20a&page=2&zenid=b2f07d08749354e2e512c0f35e4b7acd . I got ammo from them last year, very pleased with the product and the price was ok too.

[John Peddie]

I've shot upwards of 30 (government job-camp protection) mostly with a Model 94 (.32 Spl) and a few with a .303 British.

Males ran avg. of 250 live weight, females maybe 150 or so.

Some were DRT, but I've also seen them run (away from me) for 100 yards, full bore, then drop.

If your bears are similar size, you're fine, but I'd suggest those 165 gr. bullets.

But they can be surprisingly tough some times.

One trick: they have superb noses, but poor eyesight. If I caught one with its head down or behind brush, I'd put the sights a couple of feet over the middle of its back, then whistle. Bear stands up for a better look and is right in my sight picture.

[Gaiudo]

Seems there would be a difference between the Carolina sticks, and the Oregon forests. Very different applications. I'd probably take as big a bore as I could get, crawling into the sticks out east! However, that .280 should do just fine in the woods of Oregon

[nathan]

Bear meat must be really be good, huh? SOme say it is really fatty, could be all the salmon they eat.

[pat86323]

........ 1/4moa what kind of 7mm ive never EVER seen a 7 mag bullet after the shot. Even on a 500 yard shot on a mature cow elk. They just cut right through and leave an ugly hole on the exit side. Not saying that its impossible but my god they are animals.......not tanks.

[Leanwolf]

NATHAN - "Bear meat must be really be good, huh?"

I've only killed two Black bears, both in California. The meat was quite good. I've not killed an Idaho bear, but have eaten some of the meat from three different Black bears killed here by friends of mine. Again, very tasty, and not gamey.

I rendered down the bear fat from the two I killed and used the bear grease for the "lard" in biscuits, pie crusts, greasing the griddle for pancakes and waffles, etc. Mighty fine!

FWIW.

L.W.

[1/4MOA]

pat86323 - it was a 7mm mag out of a Savage m110. not a 7mm-08, not a 7mm STW. 3000 fps or so with tons of energy. no exit and still have the bullet that killed the bear.... they are tough animals.

[john917v]

I am by no means a firearm expert, but I would say that the .280 would be all right load, and pretty good at close ranges. I would go for something in the 7MM range, as posted above me. Just my 2/100 of a $1.

[David4516]

.280 is in the 7mm range...

Actually it's just a little short of 7mm Mag, but beefier than a 7mm-08 or a 7X57 mauser.

Thats why I bought it... shoots like a 7mm Mag but with a little less recoil and doesn't eat as much powder...

[Kimber1911_06238]

get a heavy for caliber, premium bullet and go hunt with confidence!

[H&Hhunter]

what kind of 7mm ive never EVER seen a 7 mag bullet after the shot. Even on a 500 yard shot on a mature cow elk. They just cut right through and leave an ugly hole on the exit side.

I've seen a 150 lb hog stop a 300 gr Nosler PT out of a .375H&H. Bullet penetration simply depends on to many variables to say that they will always exit or they will always stop.

I've seen plenty of 7MM's stopped by all sorts of critters.

To answer the original question though. Yes the .280 Remington will be fine on a Oregon black bear hunt. Black bears are thin skinned and fairly lightly built.

Popping one at longer range is way different than wading into a dog rally and smacking one at tooth range. That is where a nice .45-70 comes in real handy. But it's a different application.

[Logos]

If I was at close range with a big black bear......I'd want the caliber that would do the most damage to the bear.

And if I were choosing between the .280 and the 45-70, I'd take the .280 hands down.

Use a premium 140 grain bullet for the quickest kill. Heavier bullets in the .280 may not open up quickly enough......they are designed for moose, which are three or four times the size of black bear.

Bear are just flesh and blood animals like deer, and deer rifles do a fine job on them.

[gbran]

I've taken a fair number of CA black bears, the last 3 with a 454 SRH handgun, most the rest with an '06 or a 7mm mag. I have friends who have used everything from handguns 30-30's to big bores.

I think I might want some horsepower for long shots, but I'd be happy with most anything for the shorter ranges.

[glocker82]

I don't think you can ever have to much power for a bear. Give me a T-rex(the gun not the dinosaur)!

[David4516]

Well I think I have my ammo question figured out. I went to the range last weekend and tested out my reloads... and was pleased with the results. I shot a one inch 5-shot group at 100 yards. Good enough for me.

I think I'll take the .30-30 with me as well, just in case the brush is thicker than expected or if anything goes wrong with the .280

My Dad has a Puma model 92 in .454, he wants me to take it instead of the .30-30

I tried shooting it, found that the recoil was a little much for me, and decided against it.