[QuickDraw]

I've been hankerin' to buy a 700p lately.Saw one at a local
gun store for darn near full retail.:what:
Looked at Impact Arms.They have good price.My ffl says
he can't order it as its "Law enforcement only".
Actually the add says "available for police".:
It seems a lot of folks on this board have these rifles,why can't I?:confused:
I asked my ffl if it was a California thing,he said no.
Anybody have any answers?

QuickDraw

[Al Thompson]

Perhaps i'ts police only FFLs. We have a Remington LE shop here that sells to anyone with the $$ and a good background check. :)

[Quintin Likely]

My local dealer has 700Ps in several different calibers on the shelf. Plunk down the cash, wait for the insta-check and walk out.

[nextjoe]

There's no law against you buying and owning one, it's just Remington's policy not to sell to "civilians." Yet another excellent reason to avoid Remington like the plague:barf:

Best,
Joe

[QuickDraw]

Welll,I called Impactarms and asked them.
The guy that answered said its legal,he asked another
guy(The Shop Guru)and he said "no problem"
I guess just another case of misinformed/cover your butt
California gun dealer. *sigh*

QuickDraw

[Sactown]

I purchased mine a coupla years ago from a local shop here in Sacramento. No problems purchasing it.

[4v50 Gary]

I'd rather have the VSS instead of the PSS. Action & barrels are the same and the difference is in the stamping ("PSS" v. "VSS") and in the HS Precision Stock.

The police stock is wider and a bit thicker. If you're going into the field, the VSS is more comfortable to carry. Our earlier snipers in 'Nam tried the target style stock, but soon tired from carrying it and wanted something slimmer and easier to use in the field. Hence they went to a more sporter configuration. Guess we've gone full circle in that stocks have deviated from sporter and become target stocks (or cannoe paddles as the Chandler Brothers call them).

[45R]

Try another shop. You shouldnt have any problems buying the 700P. Some guys wont sell them to you because they dont know any better. I know a few FFLs that can get them. :)

[Delmar]

I agree with 4V50-the VS is slimmer, especially around the pistol grip, same barrel and action, and you have one less sling stud out front. You also have more money left in your wallet to buy scope rings and bases! If the lack of a second sling swivel bothers you, get out a drill and some loctite and you can easily fix that problem in less than 5 minutes!

[QuickDraw]

Thanks for all the replies.The thicker stock won't be a problem
as I intend to use it for benchrest and longrange(300-400yd.)
shootng.
I thought something was odd when I saw a 700pss in a gunshop,
then this ffl tells me their not legal.

QuickDraw

[Gewehr98]

But if you don't want to spend the extra for a box-stock 700 PSS (or 700 Police, depending on what Remington wants to call them this week) then grab a 700 Varmint and go shoot it for a while. If the stock is still too skinny, you can order the H-S Precision Police stock from folks like Midway, and still be cheaper than the original 700 PSS. The actions and barrels are the same, it's one of the worst-kept secrets out there. ;)

[Nero Steptoe]

The H-S Precision VS stock is the same price/quality as the "P" models. I personally prefer the VS stocks and don't have any Rambo fantasies! :)

[Lucky Jim]

Hey, nothing against Remington they are great rifles and I have the LTR in .308 and had zero problems ordering it from a dealer, but you might also look at the Savage 10FP-LE1 in .308 or .223. These are great rifles, too. You probably could save enough to get a better scope and mounts. I know you might have your mind set on a Remington but Savage ain't bad. I have the 10FP-LE1 with 20" barrel and I can tell you, without hestitation, that it shoots right up there with the Remington. The stocks are sort of crappy, but the accu-trigger is a nice addition. Either way you should have no problem buying one. I did run into a 870 Remington folding stock shotgun awhile back that had the Remington folding stock with "For Law Enforcement Use Only" stamped on it. It was a good price but I was hesitant to buy it. It was at a gun show and I knew one of the Police Officers that was on security detail at the show. I took him over to look at the shotgun and show him the stampings on the stock. I ask him if I could legally own it. He did not really know if there was a date that made the stock illegal for civilians or not. He had seen them sell in local gun stores to civilians so just from that figured it was probably okay to own. I still do not know the answer to that one. I did not get the shotgun anyways as the Cop said the department had some of them and after you shot it a few times you would wish you had not bought it anyhow. I found out the hard way about the LEO/Military AR15 Magazines. I bought some for $12.00 from a dealer at a gun show. I thought I had made a great deal on 30 round magazines. I then found out that I could not own them. I tried to sell them to dealers at the next show and was offered $4.00 each for them. The folding stock and magazines might have a legality problem, but the rifles are not marked, at least mine aren't, for LEO/Military use. Nice rifles, get 'em while you can.

[Byron Quick]

Remington supposedly has some policy restricting sale to LE.

I've got two. One in .308 and one in .300 Win Mag. They didn't ask me if I was law enforcement. They wanted to see my US dollars and my CCW. They took my money, a copy of my CCW, I filled out and signed the 4473, and walked out the door.

You need to find another dealer. I can tolerate a dealer who has deficiencies in knowledge of gun lore...Lord knows I've enough deficiencies of my own there. I draw the line at FFL's that are ignorant of basic firearm law. If they think that something legal is illegal...it makes me wonder what's illegal that they think is legal. With me winding up paying the price.

[Mike990]

I have noticed that the dealers that have the PSS rifles are "direct" with remington. In other words they order right from remington. Others seem to go through some sort of wholesaler or middleman. The middleman type shops dont seem to be able to get the PSS.

[Mark Tyson]

Yeah, they're legal. Why wouldn't they be? What are they going to do: make a law saying you can't have an accurate firearm? There's no meaningful difference between a Remington PSS and a dozen other accurate rifles. Just labelling something "sniper" or "police" doesn't make the gun more or less dangerous.

[WalkerTexasRanger]

I read several comments above about going with the VS instead of the PSS, just remember the twist is different in the two. VS = 1 in 12 and PSS = 1 in 9. For the intendedpurposes, off the bench and 300-400 yards, you should probably stick with the PSS or LTR as so can shoot the heavier bullets... JMHO...

[Dr.Rob]

The day a bolt action rifle with no sights is illegal to own is the day we lost the right to keep and bear arms forever.

I'd bet Remington is just trying to stay out of legal troubles later, as in someone used a Remington 'sniper" rifle to off somebody down at McDonalds, as opposed to using a "varmint" rifle, even thoughg both are essentially the same.

[bogie]

Suggestion: Since you want it for benchrest/target use (sounds like a varmint rifle) give Bob White at Shooters Corner (see www.benchrest.com) a call, and see what he has on hand in a used varmint rifle.

Yeah, it's used. But odds are it's had the action trued, and that it has been rebarreled with a match-grade barrel. A lot of dealers will say that the 700P goes through Remington's custom shop, but hey, Remington's custom shop ain't that much when it comes to accuracy.

[Nero Steptoe]

The 700p doesn't go through the custom shop.

[Gewehr98]

I read several comments above about going with the VS instead of the PSS, just remember the twist is different in the two. VS = 1 in 12 and PSS = 1 in 9.

Perhaps Remington themselves are a bit confused as to the twist rates of the rifles? As I look at the VLS on the Remington website, and the PSS on the Remington Law Enforcement website, I'm struck by the black and white print that says both rifles, in .308 Winchester, have 1 in 12 inch twist rates. I've confirmed that with my own PSS and a friend's Varmint Laminated in .308. Which makes sense, since they basically come off the same assembly line, save for metal finish and that H-S Precision stock. (No custom shop, unless you buy a Sendero, etc.)


:scrutiny:

http://mauser98.com/700PSScap.jpg

[Nero Steptoe]

Sendaro's don't come from the Custom Shop either; they're just long-action VS's!

[glazer1972]

The Remington P .223 is now 1 in 9" (Used to be 1 in 12")
The Remington VS .223 is 1 in 12".
The Remington VS .308 is 1 in 12".
The Remington P .308 is 1in 12"

http://www.remingtonle.com/rifle/700p.htm

[bogie]

Well, trust me - even if something DOES run by the custom shop, it ain't all that... If a benchrest shooter buys a new Remington 40, it gets sent to a good smith to have the action trued and a decent barrel put on it.

Give Bob a call, and see what he has on hand.

[uglygun]

Big 10-4 on the Remington PSS rifles not being that much different than a Remington VS.


About the only truely unique thing in the PSS line is the LTR with it's shorter fluted barrel. Longer barreled variants, finish and stock are about the only differences aside from the 223Rem having different twist rates.


Remington quality control has slid quite a bit over the years, anyone remember the batch of bad barrels that were produced thanks to a bad reamer? Saw a couple reports telling of the grief they had sending those rifles back to Remington and having the things sent back still turning in less than stellar performance. Such as a PSS rifle being deemed to have acceptable accuracy if at it's best all it can turn is 1.5MOA thanks to a bad chamber. One of the folks had to have his brand new rifle go back a total of 3 times before a "good" barrel was finally screwed on and not one of the buggered up ones.


They are still fairly good rifles but I don't consider the PSS deserving a premium these days, it certainly isn't worth THAT much to have a non-buggered up bolt shroud.

I got my 300WinMag PSS for 600 dollars delivered with rings/bases and only 100 rounds fired through it. Funny enough, the first dealer I went to wasn't really wanting to handle the transfer because of the "police" name associated with rifle. Being a private dealer living in Ca. I can't really blame him but he was being overly cautious, in the end I went to another shop to save the private dealer the headache of dealing with my Remington 700 baby killing sniper rifle.

I didn't buy it because it was a PSS, I bought it because I wanted a long action Remington 700 for the day I eventually have a custom rifle built. The PSS stock I will turn and sell off for 150-175 bucks or so to help fund the project, in the mean time though I've got a fairly accurate rifle for growing accustomed to the 300WinMag until I burn out it's barrel.



Now... if you can get one of the OLDER true 700P rifles and not one of the newer PSS line, there lay some real potential there for a great rifle. The older rifles were a cut above the rest but they are less common, a SELECT FEW were supposedly even churned out with 5R barrels which are the same barrels as used by rifles such as the Knights SR25 and the Army's M24 sniper rifle.

[Gewehr98]

That 700PSS rifles, of fairly recent manufacture (say, 1997, as pictured above with the Molon Labe hat) do turn in respectable groups. So your blanket statement about their shortcomings needs some salt to go down with, unless you care to explain it as a fluke? :scrutiny:



http://mauser98.com/pssgroup.jpg

[uglygun]

Yeah, there are some that still get put together correctly.


But it's likely that the PSS stands no higher a chance to be a "gem" than that of any of the typical VS or Sendero rifles. From what I've read over the past 3-4 years there really isn't the same level of hand selection or attention to detail going into the PSS rifles as once went into the older 700P rifles.


Hell, very first handloads I put together to try in my Remington PSS 300WinMag wound up beating Federal 190grain Gold Medal. Ofcourse I had to load the bullets WAY out to get them close to the lands thanks to a generously long throat but it was reassuring to see my first handloads doing right at MOA for 5 shots and knowing it should only get better from there, especially considering the long lengthy sight in process I went through. The 5 rounds came in at the end of a 40 shot string after I'd been brutalized from shooting from the prone.


But there are problematic PSS rifles out there suffering from some of the same problems as some VS/Sendero rifles.