Release Trigger


PDA






Deadheadted37
March 17, 2008, 01:58 PM
What are the advantage and disadvantage of a Release Trigger?

Are there clubs or ranges that do not allow them?

Thanks

If you enjoyed reading about "Release Trigger" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
huckster
March 17, 2008, 05:47 PM
the release trigger is designed to be a mechanical fix for flinching... if you've got a bad problem with flinching then maybe you ought to try one.


I've tried one, didn't like it myself but I can see how some folks would. Especially for shooting trap. In a perfect world you mount the shotgun, check alignment, focus out past the house, call for the bird and then follow it...the shot itself should occur almost subconsciously, when your eyes, body and brain together decide it's time to shoot. When you've got that kind of a groove going on, and the only thing messing up your shot is flinching, then the release trigger might be just the thing.


I've heard of some clubs/ranges banning them, but I haven't actually been to one yet. I have seen squad members get nervous around folks with release triggers. Usually it's some extremely experienced guy squadded right next to a youngin with a release trigger. The experienced guy usually has a story or two of negligent discharges with release triggers and his nervousness only subsides when he discovers whether or not the guy next to him has skills.

ArmedBear
March 17, 2008, 06:20 PM
I've seen shotguns with big yellow lettering on the stock, reading, "RELEASE TRIGGER". ND's are an issue.

the release trigger is designed to be a mechanical fix for flinching... if you've got a bad problem with flinching then maybe you ought to try one.

Ah, trap shooting. Where there's a "mechanical fix" for damn near everything.

http://www.gipsonguns.com/images/PerazziMX8A34242.JPGhttp://www.gipsonguns.com/images/PerazziMX8A34244.JPG

Cougfan2
March 17, 2008, 06:28 PM
The only time I've ever seen a release trigger is on a Trap gun. As far as it being a mechanical fix for flinching, never heard that one, but it would seen to make sense.

Starter52
March 17, 2008, 06:38 PM
I cannot agree that the release trigger was designed to cure flinching.

I remember seeing a few shotguns with these triggers back in the 1960's, and they were used by the top shooters in the club.

I think release triggers were a gimmick for the top 1% of competitors trying to gain a extra "edge".

ArmedBear
March 17, 2008, 06:51 PM
Whatever they were first designed for, I've heard them recommended for people with a flinch. And I don't see the top shooters using them; I see guys who shoot okay, and seem to think that a "crutch" will help them become top shooters. But maybe I'm suffering from sampling error.

Personally, I can't see how one could really have a rifle-style flinch when shooting trap, since the gun is moving when you shoot it, and you slap the trigger. Focusing on a good, smooth swing is very different from focusing on keeping a gun perfectly still.

Man, I've had to become conscious of, and work through a flinch with rifles, even .22LR rifles, and handguns. It's really not about recoil; holding still and squeezing the trigger without moving any other part of your body is not a natural movement, really, and sometimes the brain resists. But swinging a shotgun and slapping the trigger is very different, and presents a whole different set of challenges, at least to me.

Either way, it seems like working through a problem is better than a mechanical prosthetic that supposedly "solves" it.

I see the release trigger as a symbol of how silly American Trap can become, if you let it.

rcmodel
March 17, 2008, 06:57 PM
The general consensus was that they were to help with flinching.

There was an old gunsmith (Tom Kincaid) here in town who made one of the best ones going for Model 12 Trap Guns back in the 60's. He got guns from all over the world into his shop to install his triggers.

The way he explained it to me, even top trap shooters sooner or later develop a flinch that effects their scores. They felt the release trigger helped them overcome it.

They always made me very nervous when there was one around. I've seen a lot of NG's when someone new to them tried to shoot a round of trap with one the first few times. Of course, it wasn't that big a deal because the guns were always pointed down range.

Still, it's pretty disconcerting to pull a trigger and nothing happens, then it shoots when you let it go.

rcmodel

PJR
March 17, 2008, 07:45 PM
I read years ago that it requires fewer muscles to release a trigger than it does to pull one. I like release triggers and IF I were to shoot trap and only trap I'd probably use a release however for sporting, skeet and hunting it should be pull trigger only.

Pete409
March 17, 2008, 10:27 PM
A lot of the top trap shooters in the country shoot release triggers. For that matter, a lot of the "average" trap shooters shoot release triggers. For most of them, it's a necessity in order to be able to shoot at all because they can no longer shoot a pull trigger gun at targets without severe flinching.

I also see quite a few sporting clays shooters using release triggers too. If you've been to a tournament, you may have shot beside someone using a release trigger and not even known about it.

I've even seen some release triggers on the skeet fields.

PJR
March 18, 2008, 08:39 AM
If you've been to a tournament, you may have shot beside someone using a release trigger and not even known about it.
Any shooter using a release trigger that doesn't have the gun obviously marked (usually an "R" on the pistol grip) should get a slap upside the head and thrown off the property. It's not that unusual for someone to pick the wrong gun up off the rack and inadvertently picking up a gun with a release trigger could lead to an accident.

CCW1911
March 18, 2008, 09:41 AM
As a long time pistol competitor when I first started shooting trap I could see no reason for a release trigger and shared some of the opinions stated already. As my time on the trap range has increased I've changed my opinion some.

The first time I tried a borrowed release trigger I couldn't let go of the trigger for anything. Setting it wasn't a problem I just couldn't let go and fire the gun. The next round went much better and I shot a decent score. I've since owned a couple of release trigger guns and have changed back and forth with no problem. You just have to put it in your head before you go on the line. As far as the cure for the flinch it is for many shooters. Some guys shoot many thousands of rounds a year and eventualy a flinch can creep in. I also see guys flinch with release triggers too, pretty funny to see except for the guy with the problem.

I do believe there is an advantage at least for some shooters. Releasing the trigger is actually a more natural movement than pulling if you start with a clean slate. The problem is getting all those pull the trigger thoughts out of your head. I seem to track and follow thru better with the release. Having said all that I'm still shooting a pull trigger but I do have a release I may try again. The thing that stops me the most is that I enjoy shooting doubles and a double release is a different animal alltogether at least for me. If I go release I would go totaly and I'm not ready for the double release right now.

Release triggers are used at American Trap more but I've seen them used at Sporting Clays and Skeet as well.

Pete409
March 18, 2008, 12:15 PM
Any shooter using a release trigger that doesn't have the gun obviously marked (usually an "R" on the pistol grip) should get a slap upside the head and thrown off the property. It's not that unusual for someone to pick the wrong gun up off the rack and inadvertently picking up a gun with a release trigger could lead to an accident.

There is no requirement in registered trap shooting to have the release trigger gun so marked. Besides, do you always examine everyone else's gun before shooting?

Pete409
March 18, 2008, 12:22 PM
Release triggers are like most things in that people tend to fear what they know very little about. As far as the claim that release triggers are more dangerous than pull triggers, I would disagree with that.

Once the gun is loaded and hammers cocked, the pull trigger requires only ONE action (pulling of the trigger) to ignite the shell. The release trigger requires TWO actions (pulling AND releasing) to ignite the shell.

There is no way a release trigger is going to go off accidentally unless someone first PULLS the trigger, and they certainly shouldn't be pulling the trigger unless they have the gun pointed in a safe direction.

waterhouse
March 18, 2008, 12:42 PM
I've seen these, never shot with one. For the experts, once you pull the trigger, is there a way to stop the gun from firing, or must the next action be to release the trigger to fire the gun?

ArmedBear
March 18, 2008, 12:54 PM
Pete409-

You're missing a piece. Someone pulls the trigger, nothing happens, then he says, "Hey, this thing's broken!" and points it somewhere other than towards the trap house.

And yes, many trap shooters, including myself, don't let go of the trigger right away after firing.

That said, nobody should be grabbing someone's gun without asking, loading it, then firing it.

Release triggers are like most things in that people tend to fear what they know very little about.

Never saw anyone who was "afraid" of release triggers. That's a silly notion, and I don't see anyone here who says they're afraid of them.

I have, however, seen guns marked very conspicuously. That's mostly because our club has weekly youth shooting sessions, when young shooters can borrow guns and shoot trap. In this situation, people DO grab try guns that are sitting in the rack.

All of that said, I see release triggers as a perfect symbol of how far American Trap shooting has traveled from a meaningful competition of practical shotgun skills. Sure, you can dial up the adjustable rib on his 10 lb. gun so you can float the rising bird a foot over the bead, have a stock made that is carved to fit your face, and perfect your "set", but so what? It becomes a contest of who can keep his mental focus from wandering (which can be hard because my mind DOES start getting bored, sometimes very bored, up there). And it's always fun when you shoot a wobble round with a gun like that, or go bird hunting and shoot under every one (hence quitting bird hunting and shooting nothing but American Trap).

We're putting in a Bunker setup soon... And I want to try International Skeet. Thank god for the 5-stand range.

Dave McCracken
March 18, 2008, 04:27 PM
As long as I do something with shotguns other than trap, release triggers will be strangers to Casa McC.

One Geezer, now gone to his reward, was a big fan of release triggers. He was fanatical about keeping his muzzle downrange, which is why we shot with him at all. Every trap house at PGC was an accidental patterning board. The one on Range 8 he decorated at least three times.

TrapperReady
March 18, 2008, 04:35 PM
Release triggers are not too uncommon in sporting clays. There are a couple variations, such as release-pull and double release. Per NSCA regs, any gun with a release trigger MUST be clearly marked as such.

I know people who shoot them and swear by them, and I've never heard of anyplace banning them. As has been mentioned, they are more common on trap fields than anywhere else.

Pete409
March 18, 2008, 04:38 PM
Armed Bear,

I think what you are missing is the fact that most shooters who shoot release triggers do so because they HAVE to, not because they think they are trendy or cute or offer some advantage over pull triggers.

As far as trap shooters (or ANY shooter) who would turn around with his finger on the trigger of a gun that is loaded and cocked, he should be thrown out of the range and told to never come back. All the places I've shot have the policy of keep the gun pointed down range if the action is closed whether your finger is on the trigger or not. If someone turns around with a closed gun, even if he may have already fired both shots, he will get a stern warning to "OPEN THAT GUN". If he does it again, he will be asked to do his shooting elsewhere.

Waterhouse, yes, the gun can be reset after the trigger has been pulled. If it's an O/U, you just push the opening lever and break it open. For an autoloader, you pull back on the bolt handle. For a pump, you push in on the action release button. These actions are simple and easy to do.

ArmedBear
March 18, 2008, 04:55 PM
I think what you are missing is the fact that most shooters who shoot release triggers do so because they HAVE to, not because they think they are trendy or cute or offer some advantage over pull triggers.

Not missing it at all; like I said, sampling error may be a factor. But "most"? Not in my experience.

I have only seen them used by trap shooters who believed, well, one or more of these things. I won't deign to decide for them which ones, exactly, were their motivation, but none of them have to.

Why, exactly, would someone have to?

Bear in mind that one of the best shooters I know is in his 60s, grew up with a congenital spinal cord problem and often shakes like a leaf, and due to additional injuries, has only limited use of his trigger finger. He scoffs at the guys who "need" a release trigger, and he's damn well earned the right to scoff.

I don't actually know a single person who needs to use a release trigger, though of course anyone who for physical reasons does really need it is more than welcome to use one in my book, like a wheelchair, a hearing aid, or whatever. I give serious props to someone who is handicapped and is still out shooting.

And I do know people who use them. If they were shooting straights, I guess I'd think they were on to something...:) IF...

There's always a market for magic beans, though. Hard work and frustrating practice, dry fire sessions, meditation, etc., well, those are harder to sell.

TrapperReady
March 18, 2008, 06:27 PM
AB - There are pieces of equipment that you can buy that don't do a darned thing to help your score. There are others that most certainly can. For example, a custom-fitted stock can be of real, measurable benefit for some shooters.

Likewise with release triggers. I've seen guys who've had horrible flinching problems switch to a release trigger and have the flinch simply disappear. Could they have "worked through it"? Possibly, with enough practice and over enough time. However, the release trigger allowed them to proceed much quicker.

I don't use one, and truth be told, the concept kind of gives me the willies. However, I can certainly see why some folks turn to them. If it works for them, I'm all in favor.


That said, nobody should be grabbing someone's gun without asking, loading it, then firing it.


Mistakes happen. Around here, there are about a bajillion (by last official count) Browning O/Us used on the trap fields. One evening, I was shooting my 425 and tried to retrieve it from the rack when our squad was called. I checked carefully, and my gun was gone. Someone had mistakenly picked up my gun and was about halfway through a round of trap with it. He apologized profusely and there was no harm done. However, an unmarked release-trigger gun could have had an unfortunate (to say the least) outcome.

bensdad
March 18, 2008, 06:40 PM
I used to go to the Minneapolis Gun Club (a trap/skeet range in Lakeville, MN) and shoot trap on weekends. I tried a guy's release trigger once. For me, it was a ND waiting to happen.

ArmedBear
March 18, 2008, 08:05 PM
I've seen guys who've had horrible flinching problems switch to a release trigger and have the flinch simply disappear. Could they have "worked through it"? Possibly, with enough practice and over enough time. However, the release trigger allowed them to proceed much quicker.

And I could probably win the Rock-n-Roll Marathon if I could ride a bicycle. Five minute miles aren't all that hard to maintain on a bike.

I mean, with modern electronics, a radar-equipped shotgun with inertial guidance could probably really improve one's score, too.

When I talk about shotguns that fit someone's face, I'm not talking about fitted stocks. I'm talking about stocks that literally are carved so that one's face fits in the thing. Yes, I've seen it.

Hey, I have no real desire to get that "into" registered trap. The guys who shoot those things can do whatever they want, for all I care.

But all competitive sports have rules for a reason. One reason for equipment limits is to prevent gadgets from changing the nature of the competition.

If release triggers really do improve scores, that would be reason enough to disallow them in most other sports, or to have a "stock" and an "unlimited" class, as in some other equipment-dependent sports.

If you're going to call something a sport, it's appropriate to draw the line somewhere, and certainly some types of practical rifle competitions do have strict trigger specifications.

Just my 2 cents.

huckster
March 18, 2008, 09:36 PM
Oh heck - registered trap shooting is a game of single clays... that is, all it takes to lose is missing a single clay out of a hundred. On some fields, even hitting all hundred will only get you into the shoot off.

With winning percentages as small as 1% (or less) anything one can do to improve your chances is significant.

If you really do have a flinch problem it's going to cost you more than 1%.

Pete409
March 18, 2008, 09:58 PM
sampling error may be a factor. But "most"? Not in my experience.

...
Why, exactly, would someone have to?

Well, Armed Bear, you have just demonstrated to everyone just how limited your experience actually is. If you have to ask why someone would HAVE to use a release trigger, then obviously you don't understand what release triggers are mainly used for.

ArmedBear
March 19, 2008, 01:40 AM
Wow, Pete. You're clearly a very knowledgeable guy.

If you enjoyed reading about "Release Trigger" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!