[jr_roosa]

Hi everybody. I'm in a fix.

Problem one is I can probably only get one gun in the next year or two...my wife firmly believes that big boy toys come second to housing and food.

Problem two is I'd like to get myself a 1911 that can be set up for Bullseye. This gun would also be an all-around range and plinking gun. I'd prefer one that looks Government except of course for adjustable target sights. I don't need beavertails or extra serrations anything that takes a battery.

Problem three is I have one 1911 already, a pre-WWI GI Colt (not a terrible problem to have). I'm coming to the conclusion that it's a bad idea to shoot it much since if it cracks, I'll cry a lot. I'd make up some light loads, but testing handloads in an antique sounds scary too.

So here are the four solutions I'm kicking around in my head. I figured I'd put them out and see what flies.

1. Keep shooting rimfire, lovingly caress the 1911, shoot it once a year, and save my pennies for the parts to have my gunsmith make me the perfect bullseye gun. Upside is I get just the gun I want. Downside is the pennies will take over a year to save up, and then several months of waiting for the smith to do his thing.

2. Get a Rock Island GI gun and shoot the hell out of it. Custom gun can wait a few years. Upside is I can afford this gun now, I can use it to develop some softball handloads for the antique, and if it breaks, I'm only out $350. Downside is it postpones getting the competition gun I want by several years. Also the word on the street is the RIA guns are either really good or junk.

3. Get a Springfield Mil-Spec or a used Colt Ser 70, also shoot the hell out of it. Get the bullseye work done piecemeal as I can afford it. Forget the custom gun. I can't really afford either of these right now, but I'd have one in hand much sooner than the custom gun. Unfortunately the gun plus the work would cost about the same or maybe more than having one built.

4. Just go for the custom gun now. Get thrown out of house. Live on the streets. Sleep in my car.

-J.

[Babalouie]

I was in the same circumstances almost 20 years ago. I opted for a Springfield Trophy Match...I spent a few hundred more for it than a basic Mil Spec but I got custom features...adj. sights, match grade barrel and bushing. I shot a lot of steel matches with it and Limited 10 in uspsa. Now, 20 years later?...I shoot it in Single Stack uspsa! Never had a problem and it has thousands of rounds through it.

The new Springer "Loaded" guns are a great value and picking one up used is not impossible. Another firearm to consider are the Para's. I shot a 16-40 my first two seasons in Limited class...a great high cap gun that is real easy to pick up used. Other than a trigger job and an occasional "O Gee that's a custom gun!" comment I just can't see the value in spending a lot on something that will never give me any real leg up over a good stock gun with a trigger job. Its just not that hard to get a 1911 to shoot really well.

[NGIB]

Both of mine are plain jane cheapies but I sure like shooting them. I may put some bells and whistles on them someday but for now I just enjoy making them go bang. Top is a RIA Compact, bottom is a Springfield GI - have less than $775 in both of them...


http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj183/dave_dgf/IMG_RIAC-X.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj183/dave_dgf/IMG_SGI-X.jpg

[jenrob]

If you don't have the extra cash put one on lay-a-way and pay it out over the next 2 or 3 months. This would be the same as waiting on a smith to do a couple of things that you could get on a stock gun. Then if you want more you have a good gun as a base for building on.

[BlindJustice]

I think the SA Mil-Spec is the best option of those listed - you could add
a trigger/action job, change the Main Spring housing to your liking
grips, other controls open up the mag well, etc. as you can afford things,
and as you learn the platform

However I've priced the Mil-spec, and I'm happy with my choice of the
S&W 1911 I got for not more than $100 over a SA Mil-SPec and it's got a lot of out of the box features I don't have to think about gettingncluding the beavertail, beveled mag well, long trigger, - I changed out the stock slide release/lock for a WIlson COmbat Extended as well as a Les Baer SS serrated flat MSH. and a pair of Hogue smooth ROsewood grips. I still have less than $900 in it and that includes the above mods being fitted by a gunsmith
who knows 1911s.

[The Wiry Irishman]

Do you want the 1911 because you like the platform, because you want to shoot bullseye with a .45, or both?

If you're looking at them for the platform rather than the caliber, how about finding the cheapest Rock Island you can find and putting a Marvel Type I conversion kit on it? The Type Is are garaunteed to group under an inch at 50 yards, has great adjustable sights, and the money you save shooting rimfire instead of .45 would not only make up for the cost of the kit, but probably a few mods to the gun, too. Or you could spend it on food. Not that you'd really need, too though. Just live frugally.

1 ramen packet .28 * 2 people * 3 meals * 365 days = only $613.20 to feed you and your wife for a whole year.

ETA: My roommate tells me you can get ramen as cheap as 13 cents a packet if you buy a lot of it at once.

[Babalouie]

1 ramen packet .28 * 2 people * 3 meals * 365 days = only $613.20 to feed you and your wife for a whole year.

:evil:That's the quote of the day!:evil:

[Quoheleth]

Your math is wrong, friend. You would only need to multiply that by about 10 days, because by then your wife will threaten you to leave you if something else doesn't appear on the table. You'll either have to add to your meal cost, or you'll only be feeding one person - YOURSELF!

:neener:

[2nd 41]

#4 Get the the Pistol that you really want now. If I thought my wife would throw me out for buying an expensive target gun maybe I should leave the Gold Cup receipt on the the kitchen table....just might be worth it. :D:D:D

[jr_roosa]

Good range of advice. Thanks!

I already have a High Standard that I shoot bullseye with so the .22 conversion isn't high on the priority list, although they do look fun.

I can cook a mean bowl of ramen and my wife actually likes it a lot, so that's not too far fetched.

As for the factory "target" guns, they're really nice, but for bullseye they have features I don't need (beveled mag wells, beavertails, front serrations), and I feel like they'd still need a going-over by my gunsmith to get them just right. I'd rather give him the money for the work than give it to the factory, especially since I can just drive over to his shop and he'll tweak stuff for me on the spot.

The problem I keep coming back to is feature creep. The RIA is affordable at $400, but for another $200-$300 I can get the SA which is a better bullseye platform, but for another $300 I can just have the man make me a gun. Each step isn't a lot of money, but a $1200 purchase is a lot more painful than a $400 one.

I'm starting to think that I won't be sorry about getting the RIA. Even if I never shoot bullseye with it, I'm sure it will get a ton of range/plinking use. Even if I end up selling it someday for half what I paid for it I won't be out very much money.

Anyway, keep the advice coming!

Thanks again.

-J.

[The Wiry Irishman]

Well, since centerfire bullseye is your goal and if you're considering something 200-300 over the RIA, something else to look at would be the Kimber Custom Target II. I got mine brand spanking new for 750, and I've seen them (very lightly) used for 600. Though I do the vast majority of my bullseye shooting with a Pardini SP (my college's range is .22 only) I've started practicing bullseye with it in preparation for the centerfire portion of the Indiana Indoor State Pistol Championships, and its working out really well. Even 50 yards isn't a problem.

I can't speak to the bullseye ability of the Kimber relative to the SA, since I've never shot one, but I like it and I think it might be worth a look. Plus if you're shooting bullseye with it, a lot of the MIM part breakage issues people have with them won't be a big issue since your life isn't on the line in bullseye matches. Mine hasn't broken or malfed yet, but its only had ~1600-1700 rounds through it.

If you do got for the RIA, I don't think it will be a let down. I've shot a couple of their guns, and even with those bitty little GI sights their accuracy is very acceptable, and the triggers are quite decent. (though it would take some work to make a 1911 trigger suck)

I've got one more suggestion that may or may not be of interest to you since you appear to be looking at 1911s. You might look for a used Benelli MP-95 in 32 S&W Long. Back before the dollar took a nosedive, they were darn affordable for a dedicated bullseye gun at about $700ish, but they're up to around $860 now. If you find one used you might be able nab one at a good price.

Here's link to a new one: Benelli MP-95 .32 (http://www.larrysguns.com/Products/Benelli-MP-95-32SandW-Long-WC-(black)__Benelli-spc-MP-95EB-32.aspx)

You have no idea how happy it makes me to see people interested in bullseye posting here. It seems everyone seems to write off any form of competition that doesn't involve running around and neutralizing pretend tangos.

ETA: The Kimber has a beavertail and a quasi-beveled (like 1/16") mag well, but no checkering, etc.

[f4t9r]

go with a RIA. I made changes down the road on mine as money allowed.
It is a great shooter. I have other high end 1911's and love them but the Rock is a keeper.

[jr_roosa]

Oh, no! Not another gun!

I'd love to throw a centerfire into the mix, but it comes back to the 1911 working as a .45, service pistol, and centerfire gun.

I didn't include Kimber because I like the GI look. Kimber's squared serrations and the scripted "KIMBER" on the slide look a little odd to me...too modern.

Also when we get into the price range of a Kimber (the ones I've found are closer to $1k), I'd rather get the Colt Series 70 Government Model. I left that option off because after the pistolsmith work, I'd be looking at a $1500 or $1600 gun. In a perfect world I'd just get a half-dozen of those...one for hardball, one for plinking, one for wadcutters, one with a red dot, one to take hunting and fishing, and one that I'd leave just the way it is.

That's a different thread.

-J.

[The Wiry Irishman]

I didn't include Kimber because I like the GI look. Kimber's squared serrations and the scripted "KIMBER" on the slide look a little odd to me...too modern.

With all that in mind, I'll cast my vote for the RIA, as well. I've mentioned before that I've never used the SA, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I say RIA because my friends that have gotten RIAs didn't just get a decent 1911, they got fun little project guns. Since they're bare bones theres a lot you can do to it, and a lot of the basic changes you can do yourself, and save the money you'd spend on gunsmithing labor. With 75-90 bucks and twenty minute's work, you can swap out some springs and give the trigger a more bullseye-worthy weight. I don't know what toots your horn, but learning about guns through working on them is, to me, almost as fun as shooting them.

Twenty bucks here, thirty bucks there over the next couple of years and you'll be looking at a really worthy bullseye gun. Think of it as putting your ideal target gun on layaway, except that you get to shoot it while you pay it off.

[Quoheleth]

If you go with the Rock Island, I would suggest one "feature creep" and go with the Tactical model. There are three differences between it and the standard. You get an extended beavertail (no hammer/slide bite on the hand's web), Novak style sights (rear driftable; no vertical except a file - but, you can easily remove their sight and replace with another), and ambi thumb safety. Maybe you don't so much need the ambi safety, but the other two feature bumps are nice. Price difference between the two is about $50, and it'll cost you more than that to add the features to the standard model.

Q

[Ala Dan]

If you are unable to spring for a full blown, semi-custom 1911 (like the
Les Baer Premeire II) right now; I favor option #3, as the Springfield
MIL-SPEC offers a good, quality starting base. But, the good part
'bout all of this, is the fact that you can enjoy a quality firearm now-
right from the box~! :cool: You see, the MIL-SPEC has 3-dot sights,
a lowered and flared ejection port, and even comes with a nice set
of cocobolo wood grips. Sure, any custom work you decide to have
done later will cost you a bundle; depending on how far you want to
go with customizing your 1911, but 'bout $1400 and some change
should get you in a LBPII now~! :uhoh: ;)

[jr_roosa]

I'm glad to hear such positive stuff about the RIA. The one or two things I heard before I posted this were very negative (see the gunsmith's comment below). I'm warming up to the idea that I can get a 1911 that I don't have to treat like a princess. I already have one of those.

I'm all over doing what work I can myself, especially the cosmetic stuff. Springs and whatnot are fine too. On the other hand, my gunsmith takes good care of me and every trip over there is like a graduate course in firearms. He does basic work while I stand there so I can see what does what.

My only hesitation about the RIA for bullseye is that I've heard from another local gunsmith (not mine) that the slide is a bear to tighten. He found on one model that it would just spring back every time he tried to squeeze it down and when it finally held the bend, it cracked. If a tight slide-frame fit is out of the question, then that changes how far the RIA can take me.

As for the Tactical, it's a good example of a gun where the features are the ones I don't want. I don't need a beavertail (my hand is tiny and the hammer gets nowhere near it), I don't need an ambi safety, and the rear sight is coming off for an adjustable target sight before any other work gets done. Also the beavertail and ambi safety bumps it out of the running for a service pistol, although shooting service pistol matches is way in the future.

I need to ask my gunsmith about his experience with RIA slides though. If he has no concerns about the metallurgy, then I'd say it's a done deal.

-J.

[jfh]

For your interests and intended uses, jr roosa, I would look for a used SA loaded, for the following reasons:

1. You can probably get one little-used for about $600.00 or so.

2. When you add in the cost of almost any gunsmithing (and some related parts) to the cost of a RIA, you'll easily have the same expense. However, the SA loaded will be metallurgically superior, with other add-ons, and you'll have access to SA's excellent CS for any repairs / changes, possibly at no cost. (Note that this argument says nothing about the inherent high-value characteristics of the RIA guns, it only addresses the immediate cost / benefit of buying a superior product used and the related long-term benefit of superior materials in the product.)

Incidentally, this advice from a buyer who is typically a "new gun" buyer. I built up a SA 1911 gi in the late Eighties-early nineties. I have about 1600 or so in it, I think--and I suspect that (other than the trigger 'smithing), it is no better than a $1000.00 SA loaded-new / $650.00 SA loaded-used.

Jim H.

[Walkalong]

For your interests and intended uses, jr roosa, I would look for a used SA loaded, for the following reasons:

1. You can probably get one little-used for about $600.00 or so.

Agreed. I have seen some good deals on some loaded Springfields. Just have to keep your eye out for them. Getting one that way gets you a lot of bang for the buck.

[jr_roosa]

I didn't think I liked the Loadeds very much because I thought they only came with (and are cut for) Novak rear sights, but I see the Loaded Target gun has Bo-Mar style target sights. I wish it didn't have the beavertail or the front serrations, but the trigger and sights are right on. I still feel like I can go for a used Mil-Spec (or a new RIA), get the slide cut for target sights, and still beat the price of a used Loaded Target. I'll have to talk to my smith to get the specifics.

On the used front, I heard that some of the gun shops in NY have trouble moving old used 1911s since it's such a pain for people to get a permit. Apparently this drives the prices down a bit. I'm going to have my dad take a look around and see if there's anything that could be shipped back to my local FFL, maybe a used Springfield, or even better, a Colt. The used market here is pretty slim as far as I've seen...definitely no $600 Loadeds that I've been able to find, but I'll keep looking.

If I could get a SA Mil-Spec in good condition $300 to $400 or a beat up Colt for about the same, I think I'd jump on it.

I'm tending towards holding the line on a $400 price tag: new RIA, used SA Mil-Spec, very used Colt Ser 70 Gvt. At that price I could be shooting right away. I could get the adjustable sights put on this summer and worry about a trigger job and frame-slide-barrel fit later. With the RIA I might not even bother with the sights, just zero the fixed sights and call it a day.

-J.

[sloo50]

Dan Wesson Patriot or CBOB .45

IMO one of the best buys going today.

[scotty45]

Baer 1911 Premier II, 5” Model, .45 ACP is listed as $1790.00

Ala Dan, my friend, do you know something I don't about the Baer pricing? Or did they just raise it by a huge freakin' percentage?

'bout $1400 and some change
should get you in a LBPII now~!

I am thinking of trying to find a decent Mil-Spec myself and just having local smithing done to it. I am close to who seems to be a reputable pistolsmith here in the Salt Lake area, (Steve Barlow). Although, if I can get a Loaded model for not much more, I would prefer it. But starting lower and just adding what I want most is a good idea, if I can get the wife to sign off on that plan of attack. I am a huge Sig fan, but I am thinking of giving the 1911 another go and doing it right this time...