.45 Case Capacity Clays vs W231


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345 DeSoto
March 18, 2008, 11:59 AM
I'm wondering which of the 2 powders would be closer to 90% case capacity in .45 ACP...5 gr of Clays, or 6 gr of W231. I'm pretty close to settling on these one of these 2 powders and would like around 1,000 fps +/- using a 185 gr Berry's plated RNHB. The closer to 90% fill, the the better. Would the deep HB have a bearing on % case fill...the bottom line being 1,000fps? Asking all these questions, and you guys answering them, has gotten me just about there, with regards to preparing to reload. Thanks much...:D

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redactor
March 18, 2008, 12:06 PM
W231. I've loaded both powders, most recently 4.1 gr of Clays capped with a 230gr FMJ, on the recommendation of a friend that this was a good load for IDPA.

He's right. There is definitely reduced muzzle flip, and Clays is a lot cleaner than 231. However, it looks like you could easily triple-charge at that weight.

On the plus side, I won't have to buy another can of powder for a long time, since you can get around 1493 rounds out of that (Clays comes in 14 oz cans).

jfh
March 18, 2008, 12:59 PM
1. I suspect that 7.0 gr. of 231 under that 185 is a plus-p-plus load--i.e., overpressure. I'll let you do the (online) research to verify that, and ask any questions.

2. Were I to drive a 185 (or 200) to that level, I would probably use AA#5. It will fill the case more, and it is a better powder for higher-pressure .45ACP loads. Personally, I would probably use WSF, as it will be more economical.

BTW, I have loads of all powders on hand, and I load all three in .45ACP and 10mm. But, I keep 231 for lower-pressure load in the .45ACP--like about 5.2 gr. under a 200LSWC, which gives me about 830 fps in my 1911. WSF works well with closer-to-maximum loads, and #5 is even better at the upper end.

I can't speak to Clays--haven't worked with it yet, but it does seem to me to be more suited to lower charges.

Jim H.

JDGray
March 18, 2008, 01:03 PM
Dont think Clays would get you 1000fps, great paper punching powder, however:D HS6 would get you there.

Jim Watson
March 18, 2008, 01:34 PM
Calculation from Lee's VMD says 5 gr Clays will take up more case volume than 7 gr W231.

Caution: Clays is a very fast burning powder; I don't think I'd use it for high velocity loads.

Caution: These are big loads, the only place I have seen that much 231 is in the Midway LoadMAP where they got heavier charges than most sources by loading everything to the absolute maximum OAL.

I'd use something like Power Pistol.

345 DeSoto
March 18, 2008, 01:58 PM
...That should have been SIX gr of 231...:o

jfh
March 18, 2008, 02:16 PM
Even with six gr. of 231--which should keep you in the max-to-plus-p pressures--I'd still use WSF.

WSF delivers a smoother, and subjectively softer recoil than 231 at these higher velocity levels.

AA#5 will be a fuller recoil, and not quite as soft--and you can drive it harder.

FWIW, although fuller cases is a desirable objective, I wouldn't use that as the primary guideline unless you are truly fearful of charge-dispensing errors. Yes, such errors are potentially catastrophic, but they can be prevented with good workflows.

Jim H.

PO2Hammer
March 18, 2008, 02:45 PM
4.1 gr of Clays capped with a 230gr FMJ, on the recommendation of a friend that this was a good load... ...However, it looks like you could easily triple-charge at that weight.

My standard load is 4.3 grains of Clays (200 grain JSWC) and it has good case density, there is no way you are going to overlook a double charge of Clays. I switched to Clays for that very reason on a recomendation from someone here (thank you, really love Clays).

OTOH, Clays in not a good choice for going after 1,000 fps, someone else suggested HS-6, which would get you there.

FWIW, although fuller cases is a desirable objective, I wouldn't use that as the primary guideline unless you are truly fearful of charge-dispensing errors. Yes, such errors are potentially catastrophic, but they can be prevented with good workflows.


Sound advice.

redactor
March 18, 2008, 03:32 PM
It seems like the Hornady manual puts you somewhere near 7 gr of 231 for 185 grain bullets. I can look it up when I get home, but I've used 6.8 gr of 231 with those Berry 185gr plated bullets. Accuracy was terrible at 6.3, 6.5, and 6.8.

I can tell you that at 6.8 gr of 231 out of a 4" barrel, I get peppered in the face by unburnt powder.

I never did have good success with those bullets, and have gone back to 230 gr FMJ, but not without a lightened wallet.

345 DeSoto
March 18, 2008, 04:44 PM
I will be shooting an 18" barrel...

JDGray
March 18, 2008, 07:54 PM
I will be shooting an 18" barrel...

This changes things:D 6.1gr 231 oughta get you there safely (Max load in Lees Second Edition)

jfh
March 18, 2008, 08:38 PM
Dammit, the next time somebody posts a question like this, I am going to post a COPY of a response that asks every single question to get the OP's data for everything.

Then I won't fiddle with considering irrelevant issues.

Jim H.

redactor
March 20, 2008, 12:26 PM
Finally got a chance to check last night. The 7th Edition Hornady Handbook lists 7.2 as the maximum charge of W231 with their 185 grain bullets.

YMMV

357mag357
March 20, 2008, 12:45 PM
What are you shooting?

mpmarty
March 20, 2008, 12:59 PM
+1 on Power Pistol for 1000 fps handloads. Great powder in 45 and 10mm too.

redactor
March 20, 2008, 12:59 PM
What are you shooting?

185 gr Berry's plated Flat Point. I've used 6.3 grains of 231, 6.5, and 6.8.

I've never been happy with any of them. I've only got a few bullets left, and I'll be glad to see them go.

PO2Hammer
March 20, 2008, 02:36 PM
I will be shooting an 18" barrel...

!?!

That is info we could have used from the beginning.

A buddy of mine who shoots an 18" .45acp Contender carbine swears by HS-7, but it may be discontinued now.

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