Big Bore Combo Selection

Sometime in the future (hopefully over the next year) I'm wanting to add big bore punch to my collection.

What I will want is a SA revolver (preferably CAS style), DA revolver, and a lever gun all in the same chambering. I'm not intending on shooting CAS right now just like the style. The SA will be mainly for fun, the DA may see some sort of defensive use, and the rifle will be for fun and maybe some hunting.

Was originally thinking 45 Colt due to the history but just read an old 44 vs 45thread and am reconsidering.

Thoughts and suggestions considering I'm wanting the three different guns.

Hard to do better than Freedom Arms in SA...
MM

Yes, Freedom Arms revolvers are very fine, but they cost a couple grand. And I assume you would prefer not to spend that kind of money. So....

Regarding caliber. I have both. It really is a toss up. But, if you want a .44 mag single action, you will have to find one of the old Ruger Vaqueros now out of production but there are plenty around used. Or an EEA Bounty Hunter would serve. Or you could go the Blackhawk route with adjustable sights.

The pretty Colt clones are chambered in .44 spec. but not in .44 mag.

The new Ruger Vaqueros are chambered in .38 spl. and .45 Colt only.

In a carbine the best gun for the money is the Marlin 94 available in either .44 Mag or .45 Colt. For a little less money the Rossi 92 Winchester available from EMF, Taylors, Navy Arms, and others is also available in both calibers.

Beauriful replicas of the Henry, the 1866, and the 1873 are available also but will cost twice as much as a Marlin.

For a big bore DA revolver, you probably have a favorite in mind. I like the S&W mountain gun.

If you ever truly intend to get into cowboy action shooting, I would suggest you get your single action pistol and carbine in .357 so you can shoot .38 spl. It is much less expensive if you intend to shoot a lot. And you will not want a revolver with adjustable sights. You can use it, but it limits the classes you can shoot in.

Hope this helps.

I don't have an '08 Ruger catalog, but the '07 still had the BN-44X/BN-455X .45 ACP/.45 Colt blued Blackhawk listed, a perenial favorite - and my entry into the .45 Colt world years ago. You cannot beat the utility - .45 ACP cylinder permits frugal .45 ACP big bore shooting with ammo available anywhere - and reasonable (Wally World has UMC 250 packs for $83!).

My choice for a levergun was the Puma M1892 - in 5+ years, never a hiccup. In fact, here it is with my favorite .45 Colt revolver - a DA-capable S&W 625 Mountain Gun.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/Stainz_2007/IMG_0294_edited.jpg

Stainz

Nice looking outfit Stainz.

I would also suggest the 45 Long Colt as the cartridge of choice.

If you want a light weight rifle go with a Marlin or one of the Winchester 92 clones.

A little heavier rifle is the Winchester 1873.

I like my Uberti Model P w/ 5 1/2" barrel for a single action.

For DA revovler, I am firmly in the S&W camp.

I am also a firm believer in the original ballistics of the 45 Long Colt are about perfect. No need to hot rod the cartridge in a Ruger.

I have just purchased a bullet mold for the 270 grain Scovill bullet so I might change my tune a little on the ballistics but 255 grain bullet at +/- 900fps is a powerful chunk of lead.

Just my thoughts.

Elmer Keith wrote that if he only had one gun, and was limited to factory ammo, the gun would be a SAA in .45 Colt. There are many more choices in factory ammo these days than when Keith wrote this.

But then he also wrote that if he only hand one sidearm and could shoot what ever ammo he wanted he'd go with a .44 Spl.

Either round would do all he needed a side arm to do, he said.

tipoc

No need to spend all that money on a freedom Arms, unless you really want to. You can get a Ruger and a Marlin in either 45 Colt or 44 Mag for the price of the Freedom Arms.

The Ruger 45 Colt would be my choice.

Caliber 44 mag unless you reload.

SA- Ruger Blackhawk

DA -Smith Model 29

Lever- EMF Hartford Carbine- 1892 Winchester copy, nicer than Puma's

You sir, need to buy my 44 Magnum stainless Vaquero. :-)

Keith's comments on the .45 Colt and the .44 Spl. can be found in his book "Sixguns" in the chapter on cartridge selection and elsewhere. This book was written before the .44 Magnum was available though. So likely Keith would have shot both out of the Magnum.

Years later though, after both the .44Mag and the .41 mag were introduced, both of which he played key roles in developing, Keith held to the opinion that the .44 Spl. was the ideal caliber for police work and all around utility gun. You can find that in his book "Gun Notes" Vol.1.

tipoc

If you want to shoot big bores, you better start reloading.

.45 Colt/ACP Blackhawk combo--total versatility (as stated above)
.45 Colt Smith 25-5--Great target and hunting gun (mine has an 8-3/8" Dirty Harry barrel) although Rugers and (if you can caffor one) Colt Anaconda's are great. I don't like the Raging Bull because it is so dman muzzle heavy.
.45 Colt Marlin lever gun--it's trigger is infinitely better than Winchesters and their clones

You would be hard pressed to do any better than 480 Ruger/475 linebaugh. Marlin and Rossi both made carbines and revolvers are readily available new and used. Big Bore!!

Will definatley be reloading. Thanks so far.

I went with the .44Mag as my big bore selection. I have a 4-5/8" Super Blackhawk and a 4" Redhawk as packing guns. I got a Marlin 1894SS (Stainless) as the carbine and couldn't be happier. Added to the mix I have a 9.5" Scoped Super Redhawk for giggles. I think I've covered all my .44 bases and can load it from mild to wild with no issues.

The problem with the 45LC is it's small rim. Works great for SA revolvers, but is only mediocre with DAs and leverguns.

You might consider "partial cross-compatibility": 44Mag levergun, 44Spl on one or both of the wheelguns. 4Mag levers can usually eat 44Spl no problem. And the reloading dies are usable for both.

Magnum Research BFR in 45/70.

I should hope that a rifle caliber is big enough.

A poster earlier almost got it right.

Ruger SA (I have old Vaquero Bisley's) Just wonderful

A 29 or 629 Smith - no contest imho, unless you're of the "test to destruction" school of reloading.

A Marlin 1894 in .44Mag. The current model has regular (Ballard) rifling, older ones will have Micro-Groove. Most believe it's easier to get good accuracy out of cast bullets with Ballard rifling. The Marlin is in all regards superior to the Winchesters, whether the '92 pattern (hard to tune, difficult to work on) or '94 (long action designed for .30-30 length cases, and kludged for the pistol-length cartridge)

Not that I have any strong opinions about this...;)

The problem with the 45LC is it's small rim. Works great for SA revolvers, but is only mediocre with DAs and leverguns.

I had read this before and it was the influencing factor in looking at 44M. As I said I try to keep commonality between guns so I'd like all three to be the same caliber.

On the rim size of the .45 Colt. It has worked great in my da revolvers and as far as I'm aware no one has had any problems with it in da revolvers since the rim size was increased some decades back. Even before that increase I'd never heard of anyone having troubles in any wheelguns with the .45 Colt due to rim size. I've had a couple of S&Ws factory chambered in .45 Colt and had no problems with them. I currently own a Colt New Service built in the 20s and have no problem with that.

Now the small rim size was a factor in why 100 years ago Winchester and Marlin never chambered a levergun for the .45 Colt. But the rim size was increased, as I said, decades back and we've had leverguns from all the major manufacturers in .45 Colt since then.

Now the straight wall of the Colt case can lead to a dirty chamber in leverguns fairly quickly and may cause some sticking due to fouling that you don't see with the .44 or .357. But that is another story.

None of the posters above who have Colt leverguns mentioned this. So I'm not sure on that one Jim.

tipoc

Yes I have read this before and was never sure if they were talking about today's brass. I have measured my starline brass

45colt = 055 thickness
44mag = 054 thickness

Being so close I think todays standard is 055 not sure though.

Top Brass = 059 had a few pieces of this laying around.

RevolverGuy,

It's the rim diameter that has changed, I coulda been clearer on that. The rim thickness has been about the same for 70 years or so, more or less.

The diameter of the old .45 Colt rims used to be about .502 to .503 according to Mike Venturino in his book "Shooting Leverguns of the Old West".

The base diameter of the Colt case is about .480.

Frank Barnes in "Cartridges of the World" says that the nominal diameter of the .45 Colt today, and for at least the last two decades or so, is .512 compared with the nominal .514 for the .44 Mag. A quick check of some brass I have showed a variation of .510-.513, This is enough for the extractor of a Rossi or Marlin to get a firm hold of.

tipoc

Thank you Sir.

I have never had a problem ejecting from my two 625MGs in .45 Colt - or from my Puma M1892 - never! Now, the 5.5" Redhawk in .45 Colt, it was a chore to unload. Gravity and slower more deliberate ejection might prevent it's ejector star from jumping over the empty case's rim - which would make further use of the revolver troublesome, until it was cleared. I never had a problem I can remember with my SRH in .454 with .45 Colts. The .45 Schoffield cases work better, of course, since their rims are larger... except for the Puma M1892 - they wouldn't make it through the gate!

My Puma has only had a Boresnake, leader wetted with Hoppes, pulled through a few times, wait, and a dry Boresnake followed through for cleaning. It still looks pretty clean - one day, I really should get a rifle rod and clean that chamber with a chamber-sized bronze brush. I suppose the over-sized 'black powder sized chambers' have helped. As to Marlins vs Pumas, I have likely bought my last Marlin, sad to say - poor QC has turned me off. The Puma was well made - easy to work on - and strong - only the bolt is changed for the .454 Casull version. They do seem to be case-length selective, some .357Ms handling .38s better - some .44Ms not handling Specials well. The best .44 Magnum levergun I owned, smoothness of action/trigger/feed was, without a doubt, my Henry 'Big Boy' in .44 Magnum. Heavy - it would feed .44 Magnums, Specials, and Russians mixed! Why did I sell it?? If you know, tell me... plain stupid on that one.

Stainz

Bratch - 2 thoughts for you:

1) I have both a .45LC and a .44mag revolver - both N frame S&W. As a reloader, I prefer the versatility with the .44mag - more bullets, recipes, etc. but let's be real - they are very similarly sized cartridges and in modern guns can, and in the hands of the reloader, be made to do just about anything equally.

Your choice may well be dictated by the exact guns you want. In SA, you'll have more choices with .45LC. In DA guns, you'll have more choices in .44mag/spcl. In a lever gun, both can be had. I'd noodle on which was more important to me - DA or SA, make that choice first, then let things fall into place.

2) As a reloader, I ask you why you want to limit your lever gun to a pistol cartridge? Is it only for convenience and plinking or SASS shooting? Because if it's a "working" gun, it makes more sense to get a rifle cartridge here. I was faced with this as I carry a .44mag DA revolver in bear country, but for a rifle, I am purchasing a lever 30-30 to use as a saddle gun. I want more knock-down power and reach than a pistol cartridge can deliver.

Just a thought - obviously there are lots of reasons why .44mag and 45LC lever guns exist and they may fit your needs perfectly.

I was faced with this as I carry a .44mag DA revolver in bear country, but for a rifle, I am purchasing a lever 30-30 to use as a saddle gun.

I already have a .30-30 and a .45-70 lever plus lever 22s. I like the versatility of having a rifle revolver paired. I still need a .357 lever to pair with my Smiths.

Thats a pretty tall order. You mentioned CAS style but did not say if your intentions were to be historically accurate or if you were willing to depart for a little more practicality.

If historical accuracy is important then the only real combo for an SA and Lever gun would be a revolver chambered in .44-40 matched to a similar repeating rifle. The .45LC was never chambered in a repeating rifle until recently. Thankfully there are lots of beautiful guns chambered in .44-40. However the .44-40 is not a cartridge I would recommend for hunting large game.

It sounds like you might enjoy stepping into a combo such as the Ruger Super Blackhawk or the Freedom Arms Model 83 both in .44 Magnum matched to a Marlin 1894 lever gun also in .44 Magnum. This will give you the cartridge interoperability you desire and decent firepower for hunting. These are also three fabulous guns of very high quality. As far as the DA is concerned there are so many beautiful .44 magnum revolvers to choose from. I have a Dan Wesson .44VH that I think the world of.

I personally like and have carried the Colt SAA in .45 LC and the Winchester .73 in .44-40. Mine were made in 1957 and 1887 respectively. However as a horseman and back country enthusiast I felt I wanted something with a little more fire power after one day when I rode my horse out of the tree line into a meadow only to spot a Grizzly cub in the grass a 100 feet up. This is defining moment for the eyes in the back of your head!

After trying a lot of different combinations I decided on the .500 Linebaugh based on the SA Ruger Bisley Frame and the Marlin 1895GS Lever Action Guide Gun in .45-70. These two guns are both 100% packable, lightweight, incredibly powerful and absolutely proven as capable weapons for hunting even the largest of North American game. You loose the ability to swap cartridges but what you get in return is two weapons that maintain the flavor what you want while providing the best in class firepower.

What ever you do choose I am sure you will be happy with it. SA's and Lever Guns are just plain great fun shooters!

Dwayne

Thats a pretty tall order. You mentioned CAS style but did not say if your intentions were to be historically accurate or if you were willing to depart for a little more practicality.

If historical accuracy is important then the only real combo for an SA and Lever gun would be a revolver chambered in .44-40 matched to a similar repeating rifle. The .45LC was never chambered in a repeating rifle until recently. Thankfully there are lots of beautiful guns chambered in .44-40. However the .44-40 is not a cartridge I would recommend for hunting large game.

It sounds like you might enjoy stepping into a combo such as the Ruger Super Blackhawk or the Freedom Arms Model 83 both in .44 Magnum matched to a Marlin 1894 lever gun also in .44 Magnum. This will give you the cartridge interoperability you desire and decent firepower for hunting. These are also three fabulous guns of very high quality. As far as the DA is concerned there are so many beautiful .44 magnum revolvers to choose from. I have a Dan Wesson .44VH that I think the world of.

I personally like and have carried the Colt SAA in .45 LC and the Winchester .73 in .44-40. Mine were made in 1957 and 1887 respectively. However as a horseman and back country enthusiast I felt I wanted something with a little more fire power after one day when I rode my horse out of the tree line into a meadow only to spot a Grizzly cub in the grass a 100 feet up. This is defining moment for the eyes in the back of your head!

After trying a lot of different combinations I decided on the .500 Linebaugh based on the SA Ruger Bisley Frame and the Marlin 1895GS Lever Action Guide Gun in .45-70. These two guns are both 100% packable, lightweight, incredibly powerful and absolutely proven as capable weapons for hunting even the largest of North American game. You loose the ability to swap cartridges but what you get in return is two weapons that maintain the flavor what you want while providing the best in class firepower.

What ever you do choose I am sure you will be happy with it. SA's and Lever Guns are just plain great fun shooters!

Dwayne