Analyse this..Life imprisonment for defensive shooting!


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Island Beretta
August 9, 2003, 02:12 PM
The following is an article from a local paper (edited), analyse and tell me what you think:

<start of story>

'Businessman gets life for murder of student'

A businessman who shot a 17-yrs. old student at least 6 times was yesterday sentenced to life imprisonment with a recommendation that he should serve 20 years before he could become eligible for parole.

" I don't know why you did such an act' commented the judge in passing sentence. The judge said she considered the matter carefully but she had to weigh the scale between the accused and the society at large. She said she also had to take into consideration the manner in which the student died.

Testimony heard in the trial stated that the businessman shot the student in the scrotum and when he fell on his face, continued shooting him in the back. The body had 2 gunshot wounds to the front and eleven shots to the back. The student's brother testified that his brother had gone to the back of a building to urinate.

The businessman in his defence, said he was urinating near a sports bar when he heard a voice say: 'Don't move'. He pulled his licensed firearm and fired.

<end of story>

The area where the shooting occurred is frequented at nights by junkies, prostitutes and petty robbers. It is not violent but there is certainly a high probability for that to happen. I would not be on 'high' alert if I was there, nevertheless if a voice said 'don't move' then it would be condition red/black immediately.

Due to the shots to the back of the student and the number of shots the prosecution portrayed the man as reckless (hence overall a danger to society) and a cold-blooded killer.

IMHO, I think a firearms expert should have been called by the defence to the trial to educate the jury to the body's reaction to such a perceived threat. The businessman comments to the police at the scene may also have prejudiced his case. The 'eleven shots to the back whilst on the ground, face down' was the case buster, however it is not unusual for someone to empty a gun (15 shots) and still continue to press even after slide lock has occured due to fright,panic, loss of auditory and tactile perception etc. etc. To the businessman the 11 shots may have seemed like 1.

Are we glad such a person is off the streets, I am not quite sure as I think he made tactical blunders and really self-defence and not murder was the intention.

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4v50 Gary
August 9, 2003, 02:21 PM
He shot the guy in the back numerous times when he was down. That goes beyond self defense.

Island Beretta
August 9, 2003, 02:33 PM
Gary, but should not his state of mind here be a factor???

Moparmike
August 9, 2003, 02:42 PM
I dont think this covers defensive shooting. One or two, maybe. If I have an AK in my hand when someone comes up behind me and says "Dont move" and I suddenly spin around and unload a full 30-rd mag into him, 20rds of it in his back as he is on the ground because I lost tactile perception and my heart was racing, does that mean that I have just performed a "defensive shooting"? Of course not. Just remind me not to take a whizz next to that building.

Justin
August 9, 2003, 02:47 PM
Unfortunately none of us really has all the information. Shooting to slide lock just from hearing 'don't move' strikes me as excessive, and there is no mention as to what the student was doing, whether he pulled a knife, gun, club, or some other weapon on this guy, or approached him in a threatening manner. From where I sit, there's not enough information to make an informed judgement, though I would tend to agree with the judge.

Incidentally, I thought that firearms were completely illegal to possess/carry in Jamaica, and that getting busted with one meant life in prison. What are the general laws regarding guns there?

Chris Rhines
August 9, 2003, 02:48 PM
There is more to this story than we are hearing, but irregardless, eleven shots into the back of a person laying on the ground is not self-defense, no matter what your mental state is.

- Chris

ed dixon
August 9, 2003, 02:49 PM
A friend joking, another drunk pointing out that he was wizzing on his shoe, a LEO, a wannabe robber playing tough guy, a busboy noticing a rat nearby. No. This guy did not have enough to draw, let alone shoot like that. Was he drunk? Need more info on the situation, but what you've described doesn't meet reasonable force.

Island Beretta
August 9, 2003, 03:07 PM
Justin,

You can get a licensed firearm just have to go through an extensive process. There are also a lot of restrictions and the rejection rate is high!! Incidents such as that mentioned makes it even more difficult. Jamaica has a rich sports shooting heritage with several IPSC masters and Olympic shooters.


The 'eleven shots to the back whilst on the ground, face down' was the case buster,

I see we are all agreed on this point, well its a lesson from which all of us can/should/will learn..:uhoh:

4v50 Gary
August 9, 2003, 03:15 PM
One carries a firearm for defense, not to execute. Therein lies the difference between lawful and unlawful.

Mal H
August 9, 2003, 03:25 PM
Like the others, I need "the rest of the story" to make a good analysis. But based solely on what was presented, I would have to say the judge made an incorrect decision. She shouldn't have allowed for parole in 20 years.

Tim Burke
August 9, 2003, 08:14 PM
There isn't enough information for me to conclude this was a defensive shooting at all, but, even if it was, it was excessive.

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