Anyone know much about Police Positives?

Just curious what to look for and what to avoid. I have been getting an itch for a 32-20 and while at the gun shop today I saw a pretty clean police positive in 32-20. It locked up good and was in good shape for an old gun. I didn't have a bore light so I couldn't say what the barrel was like. It looked ok from what I could tell. What are better guns over all the Colt PP'S or the Smith 1905?

The only model I am familiar with is the Colt Police Positive MkV circa 1994. Sometimes I think I'm the only person who owns one, given that I've never seen another nor known or heard of anyone who had one. :(

I have a 1922 Police Positive Special in .38 Special. It is my least favorite Colt. I find it to be uncomfortable to shoot with anything other than wadcutters. The grip shape just isn't right for me.

The K-frame S&Ws are much easier guns to shoot IMO. Even better are the Colt Official Police revolvers.

The grips seemed very small and I have small hands.

Colt made the Police Positive AND the Police Positive Special.
The Police Positive had a shorter frame and cylinder and was chambered for the short .32 and .38 cartridges like the .32 and .38 S&W.

The Police Positive Special had a longer frame and cylinder and was chambered for the longer, more powerful cartridges like the 32-20 and the .38 Special.
The Police Positive Special was fitted with a 2" barrel and was called the Detective Special.

The Police Positive Special was made from 1908 up to 1995 when it was finally discontinued. It was often not listed in the catalog, but Colt sold many to foreign countries as police guns during those years.

In it's day, the Police Positive and the PP Special were extremely popular police guns, and it was a top quality revolver.
When buying, give the gun the standard inspection, and check for cylinder end shake and proper timing.

Here's my instructions on how to inspect the timing of the old Colt action:

BOLT RETRACTION AND "SNAP BACK".
Open the cylinder and look at the small "lug" in the bottom of the cylinder window. This is the cylinder locking bolt.

Cock the hammer, and watch as the bolt retracts into the frame and pops back out.
The bolt MUST begin to retract THE INSTANT the hammer begins to move.
There MUST be NO (ZERO) hammer movement possible before the bolt starts to retract.

The bolt should retract smoothly with no hesitation until it's fully retracted, then it MUST pop back out with a clean "snap".
There should be no hesitation, and no amount of "creeping" back out.

CYLINDER UNLOCKING.
Close the cylinder.
Use your left thumb or fore finger to again cock the hammer, closely watching the cylinder bolt as you SLOWLY cock the hammer.

As the hammer comes back, the bolt will retract away from the cylinder.
The bolt MUST retract far enough to unlock the cylinder BEFORE the cylinder begins to rotate.
If the bolt is still slightly engaged with the cylinder lock notch, the cylinder will be attempting to turn while still partially locked.
This produces a "catch" or "hard spot" in the trigger pull and will damage both the bolt and the cylinder lock notches.
This often appears as metal "pulled out" of the lock notches, with rounded off and burred notches.

BOLT DROP TIMING.
Continue to cock the hammer, LIGHTLY laying your right index finger on the cylinder just enough to prevent "free wheeling".

Watch for the bolt to drop back onto the cylinder. WHERE the bolt drops is CRITICAL.
The bolt MUST drop onto the leade or ramp in front of the actual cylinder notch.
If the bolt drops too soon, (in front of the notch ramp), it will mar the finish of the cylinder.

The bolt SHOULD drop into “about” the MIDDLE of the ramp.
If the bolt drops late, (farther toward the actual locking notch) the revolver may display "cylinder throw-by".
In this condition, during double action shooting the cylinder may rotate PAST the locking notch, and fire in an unlocked condition.
It's the nature of the Colt action, that a hesitant or jerky trigger pull by the user can induce throw-by in even a properly tuned Colt.
The Colt trigger should be pulled with a smooth, even pull, with no sudden jerks at the beginning.

CYLINDER LOCKUP.
Continue to pull the hammer back and both watch and listen for the bolt to drop into the cylinder lock notch.
The bolt MUST drop into the actual lock notch BEFORE the hammer reaches full cock.
The most common Colt mis-time situation is the hammer cocks before the bolt drops into the lock notch. (Hammer is cocked, but cylinder isn't locked).
In this condition, with the hammer fully cocked, you can push the cylinder slightly, and you will hear the "CLICK" as the bolt drops into lock.

In my experience, most Colt's leave the factory with the bolt dropping a little late into the leade, but usually wear in to correct timing.
If the bolt drops onto the cylinder early, no real problem, but there will be extra finish wear.
If the bolt drops late (closer to the lock notch) the cylinder may "throw by" or rotate TOO far in double action and this can cause off-center primer hits and firing while unlocked.

Each of these checks should be done on EACH chamber. All of these checks are better done individually. In other words, do the bolt retraction check on all six chambers, then do the bolt drop test, and so on.

A properly tuned Colt will:
Have a smoothly functioning bolt with no sticky or hesitant movement.

Unlock before the cylinder begins to turn.

The bolt will drop onto the middle of the ramp.

The bolt will drop into the lock notch before the hammer reaches full cock.

Have a smooth trigger pull, which does "stack" or get heavier as the trigger is pulled.

Thanks for the great post. I will keep all that stuff in mind. How would you rate the gun against a 1905 Smith? Those seem to be the two most popular DA 32-20's. Also they are asking 345. I didn't even ask how flexable that was because I am not totally in the market at the moment. I have seen them go for from 275 to over 500 for a 32-20.

The only model I am familiar with is the Colt Police Positive MkV circa 1994. Sometimes I think I'm the only person who owns one, given that I've never seen another nor known or heard of anyone who had one.

I have one, and it's my favorite revolver! :D

(It's a D-frame .38 Special with a 4" full lug barrel and Pachmayr rubber grips with Colt medallions.)


nero

How would you rate the gun against a 1905 Smith?


The Model 1905 frame size is the S&W "K" frame. This is the same frame as used on all the S&W medium frames including the Model 12, the 18, the Model 19, etc.
It's a bigger, stronger frame than the smaller Colt Police Positive Special.

"...didn't have a bore light..." A bit of white paper held in the frame will give enough light the see down the barrel.
"...What are better guns..." Chevy or Ford? Same comparison.

I have one, and it's my favorite revolver!

(It's a D-frame .38 Special with a 4" full lug barrel and Pachmayr rubber grips with Colt medallions.)

It's my favorite .38 Special, not to mention the most accurate. I first saw it when it was reviewed in American Rifleman, and from that moment on I just had to have one. Finally scored one NIB for only $257 - one of the best purchases I've ever made. I've left it stock because it was perfect right out of the box.

Not a bad gun, but be aware that old models will often have bore issues- I've seen a .32 Colt Police with bore pits big enough to lose the bullet in.

Thanks guys. I will probably hold out for a Smith to pop up. The Colts grip was just too small. I have a K frame and like the feel of them better.

If it's .32-20 then it has to be a Police Positive Special, which is a notch larger and stronger than the Police Positive. The PPS was made in both .38 Special and .32-20. I think it's one of the most underrated of all Colts, esp. since the legendary Detective Special is little more than a cut down version of the PPS. Accuracy is phenomenal and it's easy to fix any grip issues with T-grips.

A Smith from that vintage will also be good, but frankly it would come down to a question of cost and condition. If your Colt checks out for lockup and timing and has a good bore, grab it if the price is right. They're a lot harder to find than Model 10's.

When buying a .32-20 revolver, check for a bulged barrel. Light loads would stick, and the next round would bulge the barrel.

Early Colt and Smith & Wesson revolvers had very thin and hard-to-see front sight blades with a little "U" notch at the rear. During the middle 1920's they switched to a slightly wider front blade and a square rear notch. From the point of being able to see the sights the post-1920's guns are better.

Neither manufacturer made .32-20 revolvers after World War Two.

Besides the Police Positive Special, Colt offered their Army Special and early Official Police revolvers in .32-20 As a shooter they are probably a better choice in Colt's unless concealability and weight are of special importance.

Finding parts to repair pre-war Colt's can be very difficult (and expensive) and relatively few gunsmiths are left who are qualified to work on them. Sometimes later parts will not interchange in the older guns, mainsprings being an example. Smith & Wesson K-frame revolvers are a bit better in this respect, but again post war parts will often not work.

As noted before, it is a lot easier to find the guns, then to find ones with shootable bores.

Because the cartridge was and is loaded primarily for use in lever action rifles, barrels 5 inches and longer sometimes work better with less muzzle blast.

A good source for S&W model 1905 Hand Ejector revolvers (.32-20 and otherwise) will be found at www.armchairgunshow.com

They are sometimes a bit expensive because they're customers are more often collectors. Be that as it may, they are worth the money because they know what their doing and stand behind what they sell. Recently they had 9 Colt or S&W .32-20 revolvers in stock.