[ed dixon]

I've read so much bad press about the nine that I just wanted to gather opinions in one place. Thinking hard about adding it to my home, especially in the RAP model, so I wanted to see what the best and worst views were. Is 9mm a weak sister or not?

[BHPshooter]

It definitely has a place in my eyes. It is not a .45, if that's what you're after, but it is not really worse, just different. 9mm is known more for penetration than instant stopping power, which is (supposedly) one of the excuses the US military used when they adopted it. I have heard that it will penetrate *some* kevlar. The .45, on the other hand, is a lot better at dealing with doped-up bullet sponges, and in a hurry.

All of these improbable situations aside, what if you need to shoot someone standing sideways, through the arm? I would think that 9mm ball stands a little better chance of that than .45. What if you need to drop someone who is pretty pissed off and charging you? .45 would probably stand a little better chance of that than the 9mm.

Personally, if I were in a situation where A) I could carry legally (too young), or B) I was in a really rough neighborhood, I'd probably get a 1911 for a primary and a BHP for a backup.

YMMV, as usual.

Cheers. Great Thread!

Wes

[Jake]

Pros- ammo easy to find
ammo pretty cheap
lot of different makes and models
higher capacity than larger bore pistols


Cons- It's not a .45

[ChuckB]

Defend the "existence" of the 9mm? I really don't think it's existence needs to be defended! Every major caliber has advantages and disadvantages (except perhaps the .25- no positives that I can see). We can beat the 9mm vs 45ACP horse until it is long dead (already is) but each is a fine defensive caliber. Choice? Of course. Defend existence? I think not.

Chuck

[ACP230]

Nines can be softer recoiling and easier to shoot than larger calibers. This depend to some degree on gun weight and design.

As already mentioned 9mm surplus and other 9mm ammo is really cheap right now. This has lead me to shoot my 9mm Combat Commander more recently. I get the feel of my .45s without having to reload .45 ammo or buy expensive factory loads.

Some very neat guns are chambered for the 9mm. The Commander above is one, another is the Browning High Power. The BHP still has lots of 13-17 round magazines available at reasonable prices.

The 9mm is not my favorite cartridge but it does have a place.

[sgt127]

You can get cheap S&B for practice all the way up to +P+ and have very close to an automatic .357 magnum. Very compact and controllable guns chamber the round. With the right ammo, good track record of stops. Look long enough and you will find bad press and poor stopping power for any caliber made. Even the legendary .357 125 HP doesn't always work.
Out of my P-7, I'm getting 1300fps+ with Federal 115 +P+. Hardly a weak sister...

[SelfProclaimedExpert]

Price, effectiveness, control, accuracy, feed reliability.

Feed reliability is probably of paramount importance. Since 9mm is arguably the best feeder, the other attributes, which are all well inside the diserable range, make the the choice sensible.

[Shawn Dodson]

I've read so much bad press about the nine... Ya know what? I carry 9mm. If someone else has a problem with 9mm, who cares! It's their problem, not mine.

[9x19]

www.sportshooter.com/gear/tlg_9mmadvocacy.htm

[YodaVader]

In a compact size pistol like a Sig P239 the 9mm seems to be the perfect cartridge. Decent power in concealable/shootable package. Like the combination of the P239 and 9mm - reason I own one! The only 9mm I have ever owned.

[longeyes]

All of the above...

and easier follow-up shots.

I also tend to think that 9mm, in the right pistol, is an easier caliber to shoot one-handed if that becomes necessary.

With the right ammo 9 is plenty powerful.

[Baba Louie]

Its International.

Its cost effective.

It comes in all kinds of different bullet designs and powder charges.

Its small yet effective (some say the borderline handgun cartridge).

All kinds of handguns fit it, several were designed around it.

Its been known to terminate opposition more than once, should that become a necessity in your life.

Its almost 100 years old, it may be older.

Defense rests for now, your honor.

Adios

[1911Tuner]

Consider it defended from this front. I've read the dismal reports
about the 9mm, but have yet to hear of a test volunteer to stand
on his hind legs and take one in the chest. That round has killed
a lotta folks since 1908. Add to the above that I've witnessed
it, and I promise that the 9mm is not a slacker, even in hardball
configuration.

True, it fails to stop an attack sometimes...So does the .45 ACP.
The .45 just fails less frequently. The .308/7.62 Nato round
fails sometimes too, just like the .223/5.56...again, it just fails
less often.

Practice...Often. Put the shots in the right place, and the nine
will do just fine most of the time, especially with modern loadings
and bullet design. Believe in your heart that there is no such
thing as a guaranteed one-shot stop with anything short of a
.50 Browning at 20 paces.

That there's MY nickel's worth anyway...

Tuner

[Art Eatman]

A Commander or 1911 in 9mm is a hoot! No recoil; you can really stack multiple hits in a small group during rapid fire. :)

Art

[agtman]

"9mm -- defend its existence."


Well, there was a lot of debate about the 9mm on this thread - more or less par for the course, IMO:

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=63621

:rolleyes: The 9mm is, of course, fine for many purposes, none of which have to do with "stopping-power" or lack thereof: :scrutiny:

* it's accurate, and in some handguns, super accurate;

* cost-wise, the 9mm is the best deal going in a "major" pistol caliber, the inexpense of which only encourages more practice in order to maintain those perishable hand-eye coordination skills with an autoloader;

* as an autoloading caliber, the 9mm's good for breaking-in newbies, females and limp-wristed males (the ones who get the shakes just imaging what the word "recoil" might mean :rolleyes: );

* it's perfect for aging arthritics who wish to enjoy the pleasures of a sunny Saturday afternoon shooting targets without having to take pain-killers to do it;

* it's the first choice of "politically-correct" police administrators, who feel it's the safest choice among existing calibers and for whom the word "magnum," or anything even close, paralyzes them with fear of bad pubilicity and "excessive-force" lawsuits from the criminals' lobby.

Bottomline: the 9mm has its usefulness, and thus there's no downside to owning one, even if it's not the world greatest "man-stopper." :evil:

[cool45auto]

:rolleyes:

[New_comer]

I've read so much bad press about the nine... Could you please share those articles? Inquiring minds would want to know...

After nearly three years of haunting gun fora, I've never, ever, read a write-up that has been truly "infallible". Nor have I read of any brave soul who volunteered to take one or two COM, or maybe 16 (I use hi-caps BTW ;)), just to demonstrate the 9's "inferiority".

Load up with any of the premier cartridges available in the market. They're right up there in stopping capability, if you do subscribe to that concept. :rolleyes:

The least that could happen is that the 9mm slug won't mushroom, & perform like ball ammo. Even so, it would still be at par with the wide-body, ball-type calibers. But, with the most extreme penetrative ability, due to the 9's intrinsic "speed" advantage. Coupled with 'delivery packages' that are the cutest in the industry. :D:D:D

Don't these ideas sell yet? ;)

[WonderNine]

The 9mm is the perfect handgun round.

How's that for defending its existence? :neener:

[Ian11]

I agree. It doesn't need defending. Its continuing popularity after all these years proves its worthiness as a defense round, target round, and all around handgun round.

[sm]

Doesn't need defending, been "defending" since right after the turn of the century, adopted by German Navy in 1904, German Army 1908.

I agree with Art- what a hoot indeed.
BHP's another favorite of mine...by golly it fits...yippee!!

[Mike Irwin]

Well, let's see...

It's by far the most popular handgun/submachine gun round ever created.

That should be justficiation enough. :rolleyes:

[1911Tuner]

The cartridge is available pretty much anywhere in the world...even
on the black market in countries where "Military calibers" are
verboten. There is probably more 9mm ammunition out there
than any other pistol/subgun round, including the .45 ACP.

A 1911 Commander in .38 Super is a hoot to shoot, too. More
energy than the 9mm and no more recoil...at least not so's you'd
notice...AND...It won't get you executed on the spot in some of
the more vehemently opposed nations like a 9mmParabellum will.

So...a toast to the mid-bores. Long may they pop!

Tuner

[Justin]

:rolleyes:
Let's see...

Generally speaking, your standard 9mm round will put out about 440 foot-pounds.

Your standard .45 ACP will put out about 420 foot-pounds.

Not much difference.
From where I stand 9mm vs. .45 or any other round is an assinine discussion, akin to arguing horsepower vs. torque.

You want stopping power?
Use a rifle.

[goon]

The 9mm has been around for quite a while.
If it had been a bad round, it would have been extinct quite some time ago.
It needs no defense from anyone.
Actually, it has been doing the defending for about a century now, hasn't it?
The bad guy who considers my 9mm a nonlethal weapon may soon find himself leaking from several places. ;)

[echo3mike]

As the owner of a 9mm and (soon to be owner of) a .45, as well as an inner city ER worker, just pick up your weapon and pull the friggin' trigger... pick a handgun and practice and shut up about it all. It's still gonna be about shot placement...it's a tired thread...let it go.

In other words, on X-Ray, a thoracic cavity full of 9mm hollow point fragments looks just the same as a thoracic cavity full of .45 cailber hollow point fragments.


We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
S.

[The Silver Bullet 1719]

I don't think it matters if its a 9mm, .45, .40, .38, 10mm if you put it in someone's heart. :rolleyes:

[BHPshooter]

I've read so much bad press about the nine...

This makes me think of the posts on other boards saying things like "there are documented cases of a men taking 16 rounds of 9mm and still standing."

Yeah, not for long, methinks. FWIW, I have never seen any proof of anything like this. All of the "defense" expressed here is worth listening to. There is no end-all caliber, so just try a few and get the ones that you like.

You want stopping power? Use a rifle.
That's some golden advice.

Wes

[LeonCarr]

The 9mm is cheap to shoot. The more you shoot a gun, the more proficient you will be with it. Most of my buddies with .40s and .45s hardly ever shoot them because, in their words, "the shells cost too much".

Shoot value paks, blazers, or whatever is cheap for practice, and load Corbon 115 +P JHP or equivalent for self defense.

For the best 9mm handgun, read the signature.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[dsk]

I think the 9mm is at its best in compact pistols, like the Glock 19 and smaller. In full-size service guns (like the Beretta 92) it seems a little out of place to me. I'm just thinking in terms of size-efficiency.

[ACP230]

Richard Davis head of Second Chance Body Armor Inc., documents a bad case of 9mm failure on one of his videos.
A cop stopped a guy who was weaving down the road and the mutt came up shooting. Before it was over the cop had gone through a magazine and a quarter of 9mm. Headshots were what finally ended the confrontation. The cop was hit early in the fight but his Second Chance vest stopped the thug's .357 bullet.

This was an exceptional circumstance. The guy was suicidal and full of anti-cancer drugs. From the dramatization it appeared that some, but by no means all, of the cop's hits were peripheral. The cop's bullets were a poorly designed hollowpoint with the jacket running down inside the cavity of the bullet.

I have carried my Colt 9mm Commander occasionally and felt well- armed. I usually carry a Smith 649 and feel adequately armed.

[1911Tuner]

I read that one ACP230.

I also remember reading...several years ago...of a mid-western
state trooper (don't recall which state)...who hit a guy full in the
torso 6 times with a .357 Magnum...I'm pretty sure that 145-grain
Silvertips was the ammo...and wound up pistol-whipping the guy to
stop him. The felon died en-route to the hospital, but until he
was subdued via the Wyatt Earp Method, he was still able and
willing to kill the trooper.

Another story was about a drug bust that triggered a shoot-out.
One of the BGs absorbed 7 or 8 rounds of .38 Special at just outside
of powder-burning range, plus two rounds of 00 Buckshot...One in
the chest, and one in the back as he turned to run. He went down two
flights of stairs, and was tackled on the street by one of the back-ups.
He died a half-hour later, in the ER

Crap Occurs. There's this guy named Murphy, see....

Cheers!
Tuner

[Blackhawk]

I don't have to defend the 9mm.

It has to defend me....

[jc2]

You can find "horror stories" about failures to stop with any handgun calibre. One of the more recent is the NM Deputy that emptied his G22 (.40 S&W) into a kid's chest, and the kid fought all the way to the hospital. There are no "magic bullets." The 9x19 is no worse (or no better) than any other "service" calibre.

[Erik]

They're great coming out of sub-guns.

[jnb01]

Hey, why not ask those who issue or authorize it!

LAPD
NYPD
NYSD
LVMPD
US Customs
NJSP
Palm Bay FL. PD
Philadelphia PD
San Bernadino PD
Dallas Texas PD
SDPD
Santa Clara PD
DC police

Just to name a few...........

One common theme is, they all use quality ammunition like Ranger, Federal Tactical or Gold Dot. Of course, all of the calibers benefit when the best loads available for them are utilized, and any of them can be made to perform quite poorly when they aren't.

Hell, the Texas DPS was under-whelmed by the .45's performance with regards to hard barrier penetration, and failures to incapacitate rapidly enough in a few unobstructed frontal shootings as well. They subsequently began issuing the 357 Sig or (.355 +P++), coupling the P226 with 125gr Gold Dot's. Should we now have to justify the .45's existence? ;)

>The 9mm is very reliable in most quality platforms.
>It's the easiest service caliber to shoot 1-handed or weak hand only.
>Carries lots of rounds on board
>Lighter recoil allows for faster follow-up shots
>Today's ammunition makes it an even more viable choice.
>Less shooter fatigue over the course of an extended range session or instructional class, potentially allowing for more time behind the trigger thus leading to greater weapons proficiency.
>Guns chambered for it are often times more durable than their larger caliber counter-parts.
>Easier for most to control in compact & sub-compact platforms vs. the .45, .40SW, or 357 Sig.
>It will do the job just like the others when properly loaded, and provided the shooter does theirs!

My favorite carry gun is a G19 with a 17 hi-cap (18rds. on tap not counting spare mag), usually loaded w/ either Winchester's RA9T or RA9TA loads, if not those, then Speer's 124gr+P Gold Dot. Hit's are what count, and not those of the peripheral variety. With the 19's short trigger reset and the 9mm's lighter recoil, I am able to shoot this gun extremely fast, while maintaining a good level of accuracy, which I consider quite important with regards to a defensive firearm, existence justified! ;)

Best, jnb01

[firestar]

Don't you know that the 9mm will not even phase an attacker? You need at least 15 well placed shots with a 9mm to bring down an enemy that a .45acp can bring down in one shot. The 9mm is only around because of the politically correct enviornment we live in today that states that we only want to injure people and not kill them. The military 9mm is designed to only injure the enemy and kill because killing is looked down on in war. The 9mm is the result of Liberal Democrats trying to take away our manhood and replace it with a weak and inferior caliber.

Haha! Don't you know that a 9mm is worthless but a ..357mag or a 38spl is just fine for some reason? Never mind that out of a 5" bbl like a Beretta M9, the 9mm with good ammo will come really close to .357mag ballistics and will out preform all .38spl loads, that doesn't matter. All that matters is, the 9mm is not from the U.S.A., so it can't be any good.

[Sean Smith]

Never mind that out of a 5" bbl like a Beretta M9, the 9mm with good ammo will come really close to .357mag ballistics

I like 9x19, but that isn't true. 127gr +P+ 9x19 @ 1,250 vs. 125gr .357 Magnum @ 1,450 is not "really close."

[Dr.Rob]

Well how is this? Every army in the world (even ours) uses it.

The bullets weigh half as much as a 45, so you can carry twice as many.

As far as power goes, most "good" defensive loads, even the non+p varieties are pretty close, for instance:

Winchester Silverip 115 gr (former FBI HRT Load, one of the fastest non +p loads on the market) 1225fps at the muzzle for 383ft/lbs.

The Winchester 230gr SXT (thats the replacement for the dreaded black talon) 880fps at the muzzle for 396 ft/lbs.

Now its a fact that if either one clogs up, it will go right through its intended target. the 45 will out penetrate the 9mm if they expand.The 9mm will penetrate a propane tank, the 45 won't (ust heard that tidbit from an ammunition tester yesterday)

Either bullet will do the job if you do.

[LeonCarr]

Quote from jnb01:

Hell, the Texas DPS was under-whelmed by the .45's performance with regards to hard barrier penetration, and failures to incapacitate rapidly enough in a few unobstructed frontal shootings as well. They subsequently began issuing the 357 Sig or (.355 +P++), coupling the P226 with 125gr Gold Dot's. Should we now have to justify the .45's existence?

Hey jnb01,

The reason that the Texas DPS switched from the .45 to the .357 Sig was because of the poor performance they were experiencing due to inconsistent performance of the 230 grain Black Talon ammunition. In one shooting incident, a trooper shot a bad guy through the back windshield of the Ford Ranger pickup the bad guy was driving. The Black Talon round went all the way through the back windshield, through the driver's side headrest, through the bad guy's head, through the front windshield, and was found on the ground in front of the pickup, and it was 100% intact, no expansion. It could have been reloaded except for the rifling grooves. In another incident involving a stopped 18-wheeler, the driver of the 18-wheeler started shooting at a rookie tropper armed with a .357 Sig, and a veteran trooper armed with a .45. The .45 rounds did not make it through the driver side door of the 18-wheeler, but the .357 Sig did, and stopped the attack. In other words, the ammo was at fault, not the .45 cartridge itself. Also, in a political move, Sig wanted a major law enforcement agency to adopted the .357 Sig, to give the cartridge a good head start in the market, and they made Texas DPS, among other agencies, a great deal on the new .357 Sig. The P226 loaded with 125 grain Gold-Dots is a great combination, and the troopers like them, but that is the story I heard, given to me from a reliable source.

I am issued a .40, but I like the 9mm better. The 9mm will do anything a .357 Sig will do, with the right load, for less money.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[jnb01]

Leon, the Texas DPS tried a few different loads in .45acp, which included both the standard Talon and a +P version made specifically for them by Winchester. They also used the 200gr+P Speer Gold Dot. Some thought the +P velocities would help from the P220's slightly shorter tube.

Those who carried and still prefer the .45 are allowed to use them, not sure what the current duty load is, although given the amount of shootings they have involving automobiles, I would personally prefer Federal's 230gr+P Tactical load.

Best, jnb01

[Hypnogator]

While I prefer a .45 for a PDW myself, I've carried many a 9mm and never felt undergunned. The 9 is a fairly powerful, accurate round that will fit into a medium-sized weapon with a prodigious magazine capacity. It'll be around for a long, long time.

[Ala Dan]

The 9m/m Parabellum ammunition is available
virtually world-wide; including some third world
country's.

Also, the 9m/m remains in use by a lot of the world's
military's and police agency's. Sounds like a couple of
good reasons to me?

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[LeonCarr]

jnb01,

The loads you mentioned are all superior to the standard Black Talon, easily one of the most overrated handgun rounds ever made. The Speer Gold Dots are excellent. You can also get the 200 grain "flying ashtray" in a +P load also, IIRC.

To keep from going off the topic of this thread, I still like the 9mm Better :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[BlackJack]

The 9mm doesn't need anyone to defend it--it's the most ubiquitous cartridge in the world because it can defend itself.

[Wildalaska]

9mm -- defend its existence.

I like em

WildendofthreadAlaska

[PCRCCW]

This entire thread has been very entertaining. Thats about it.....some good points made...but the whole caliber war is a moot point.

Get a gun you shoot well, a JHP that is stout, accurate and expands and train your ??? off..........Have a nice day :D

[Longbow]

I can reload it for $55/K! :)

[George Hill]

Stop reading gun rags and go out and shoot more.

[Skunkabilly]

It's easy to rhyme if you're a rapper.

[mini14jac]

I love the 9mm for many reasons:

1. Walmart value packs - $10/100rds.
2. My PM9 is just about the ultimate platform for this caliber.

I read a good article somwhere on the 'net that summed it up like this:

For the average citizen, who may come up against an armed felon, looking to victimize them and run, a good 9mm weapon, with a good load should be just fine.
For a law enforcement officer, who may end up against multiple armed felons, who may be "2 time losers", a .45 may be a better choice.

I like that.
I think that is a good philosophy.
That said, when clothing will allow, I plan to start carrying a .45, but in the meantime, a 9 will do nicely, thank you.

[Tamara]

9mm -- defend its existence.

Okay. :)

P-08, Mauser C96, P-38, MP-18i, MP-28, MP-40, MP-5, GP-35 "High Power", Sten, Sterling, P8, P7, P6, P5, M9, M11, P-228, P-226, P-210, Glock 17, CZ-75, "Tokagypt", Karl Gustav, Beretta 1938, Beretta M12, CZ M25, Madsen, MAT 49, Suomi, MPi-69, pz-63, and on, and on, and on...

You'd think that, in the almost 100 years that it has been in constant service, becoming easily the most widespread and commonly used single military cartridge on the planet, the closest thing to a "universal" pistol/SMG round extant, that if it just wasn't working, well, folks might have noticed by now. ;)

[Berg01]

9mm is definitely no weak sister; I believe you need to get lots of range practice with any carry gun, and there is no denying the economics of 9mm ammo. With my Sig P228, I can get lots of practice with Win Value Pack Ammo, and it is an excellent carry gun with GDHPs or Pro Loads.

[Boats]

The 9mm has undoubtedly killed untold thousands of people in wars since its introduction. Unfortunately, most of these "combat deaths" were people kneeling or standing by the side of huge ditches in Eastern Europe or the Balkans. The 9mm is good for that duty because it weighs half as much as a good combat round and you can carry more of them while committing genocide, which has still been the 9mm major combat role to date.

[SelfProclaimedExpert]

Mr. Boats,

That is just plain crazy talk. The 9mm cartridge was neither designed nor selected by so many militaries and police agencies because of anything related to executions. Throwing out such information in a thread about the usefullness of a cartridge is a ridiculous distractor and a shameful canard.

If you have something to say about 9mm effectiveness, or lack thereof, say it. But attempting to shame 9mm fans by creating some tenuous connection with Nazis is childish.

That same war involved the heroic use of millions of 9mm British Stens. And later Israel defended herself well with 9mm Uzis on the front lines. Details suspiciously missing from your greatly abridged 'history' of 9mm in combat.

[Boats]

T-I-C
talk
T-I-C
talk
T-I-C
talk
T-I-C
talk
T-I-C

sarcasm sarcasm sarcasm sarcasm

[agtman]

54 posts later ...


... and the 9mm's "defense" has gone about as well as Dien Bien Phu. An interesting effort, but ultimately ineffective. :evil:

('Course, don't the 9mm and the French sorta deserve each other? :D )

[9x19]

How much longer before school starts up again?

The kids are getting restless... :D

[Tamara]

Amazing to see two such intelligent people willfully attempt to refute facts simply because they think they somehow slight their favorite cartridge.

First, another fact: I own three guns in 10mm Auto, eight in .45 ACP, and one (count 'em... er, it) in 9mm.

I like 10mm and .45 much better than 9mm. There is no denying that they are more powerful and punch larger holes than 9mm. However, history shows that 9mm does plenty good in its own right.

(My personal favorite "9mm refutation"? It'd have to be when someone says "I don't trust that new-fangled 9mm cartridge! Give me good ol' battle-proven .45!" The first thing tells me is that the speaker knows somewhat less about military history and armament than he does about particle physics... ;) )

[Poohgyrr]

I skipped this thread the first few times I saw it because I thought "Do I really want to subject myself to what will probably be posted?"

Then I gave in, but went to the last few posts. And I saw the HI POWER posted :):):) This is defense enough for any sane rational person ;)....

If anyone thinks the 9X19 is too wimpy, and also owns a Hi Power, Boy can I help you out. Just send all your Hi Powers to me. :) Then you won't have to ever look at one again. :) TIA :)

[GSMD Fan]

9mm no way!

You all know the story of the LEO then emptied two full magazines from his 92Fs into the rapid gopher and that fuzzy little SOB just wouldn't die.

Of course the other story about the Yeti on crystal meth who just took one look at a .45 ACP (of course on a 1911 frame) and just died from a heart attack!

Defend the 9mm. Why? Don't like, don't carry it, but many folks would disagree.

You want to talk about stopping power, talk about shotguns, rifles, belt fed weapons, mortars, tube arty, you get the picture.

The 9mm is a fine cartridge. Use good ammo and fire from a quality platform and you will do fine.

[The Silver Bullet 1719]

So I guess Boats and agtman wouldn't mind being "9mm Ballistic Test Subjects" :rolleyes: .

[SelfProclaimedExpert]

Silver Bullet,

Respectfully, do you know anyone stupid enough to stand in front of a .25 ACP, either?

I've always disliked this brand of reasoning when it comes to bullet effectiveness discussions. It's really meaningless.


I wouldn't stand if front of a BB gun, but I wouldn't carry one for protection.

[CZ52GUY]

...nor would a BG want to if I'm aiming at his head...nine is fine.

...besides, in our system the market decides what exists and the 9mm seems to be doing quite nicely, thank you.

Safe shooting,

CZ52'

[T.Stahl]

I think the reason why Americans prefer the .45 over the 9mm is the same why Americans would prefer a 200 SAE-hp 4.0l V8 over a turbocharged 225 DIN-hp 1.8l inline-four. :D

[CZ52GUY]

I'm curious if the "American .45 ACP preference" is real or perceived?

Anybody have a link to some good autoloader market statistics for the US?

CZ52'

[JohnBT]

Okay, I'll take a shot at it. Two reasons I like the 9mm, other than the fact the 9mm BHP is really, really, really great(for me):

1. The 9mm is bigger than the 6.35mm.

2. You can store your empty 9mm brass in your empty .45 brass. Saves a lot of space at my house.

John

[kalibear45]

1 box of 115gr of Winchester "white box" 9mm + Customized Browning Hi-Power + 4-17rd South African mags = 10 minutes of fun at the range :D

[Sean Smith]

I try to avoid paper cuts, but I wouldn't use a sheet of paper to defend myself either.

:neener:

Here is my take on it:

Lots of nice guns come in 9x19, the cartridge is capable of fine accuracy, you can fit alot of them in a magazine, the ammo is cheap, recoil is mild even with +P+ loads that have more muzzle energy than most .45 ACP, and even if it is somewhat less effective against humans than the bigger boomers you have rounds to spare to try again.

[Stevie-Ray]

Pros:
OK, cheap at the range. Just make sure you run a few of your current carry ammo to remain proficient. (e.g. Hydra-shoks)

Fun factor. About as much fun as a .22, again because of the price, but also due to low recoil and general accuracy.

High variety of weapons, good number of carry-sized ones to choose from.

Recoil low enough that very small weapons are very controllable.

Good ballistics. Sure it's not a .45, but then a .45 is not a .50 BMG.

Ammo availability. Everybody sells 9, even Wally World.

It's my second carry choice.

Cons:

It's not .45 ACP:D

[HankL]

Defend Ed, you pose your question as an educator questioning his student prior to conferring a degree. Seems to me quite a few here have a very good grasp on the worth of the 9mm Parabellum.

Very interesting thread.