[Blackhawkdc]

Hey all, I'm doing my research on what to purchase for a sidearm. My uses would be mainly protection while backpacking and canoe tripping in the BWCA of MN. I need something that is lightweight as I'll already have 40-50 pounds of gear strapped to my back. I also need something that'll stop a bear in a bad situation. Now being Minnesota, we really only deal with black bears. I'm currently leaning towards a snub nosed revolver in either .38 special or .357 mag. I am also open to a semi-auto and open to suggestions there. Now, the biggest issue for me, money. I'm on a very tight budget, but need to figure something out for solo trips especially.

Any Thoughts?

Thanks!
Seth

[Archer1945]

Forget anything smaller than a 454, 460 or 500 in a snubbie if you want to be able to stop a bear immediately, anything smaller looses too much power. Your best bet would be a small semi-auto in 40 S&W or 45 acp with the loads designed for shot barrel guns. A black bear may not seem much of a threat because of their small size but most bears tend to be hard to bring down with one shot unless it is placed exactly in the right spot. Even a small pistol will give you more shots and probably harder hitting ones than any snubbie revolver in any caliber short of the big magnums.

[Ed Ames]

IMO you are on the right track with a .357 revolver.

Black bear aren't the same beasties as grizzleys.

[ZeSpectre]

Fine choice. Get a stainless model and remember even that is "stain-less" not "rustproof" so have appropriate protectant along.
Make sure it's up to full-house .357 Magnum loads and have reloads. Learn WHERE to shoot a bear or having anything short of a howitzer won't matter. Beyond that do a search, this topic has been covered a LOT of times!

The bottom line though is to learn how to behave in Bear country and follow those guidelines and you'll be fine.

Be Safe
Ze

[ChristopherG]

Not to discourage you from asking questions--but if you use the search function (searching thread titles for 'bear' or 'bears') you will find that an absolutely ridiculous amount of discussion has already taken place on this subject. Some of it makes for fun reading, and could help you make your decision.

For my money, you're probably on the right track--with a steel 5-shot .357 revolver. I'd take a 3" barrel, given my 'druthers.

[rklessdriver]

.357 Mag at the minimum IMO. .38 aint going to get it. Also 4" barrel at a minimum.

We have a lot of black bears here in Eastern NC and althou they are only in 150-300lb range (max), I personally hunt them with a .44 Mag minimum. I have a few friends who have shot them .357 Mags and from the terminal results I've seen... I wouldn't want my life depending on one. Even with 180gr bullets they are slow to go down. My Super Blackhawk and my Dan Wesson put them down almost instantly. I've used 300gr hard cast and 240gr Horaday XTP's, both rounds have worked fine. A buddy uses the old 240gr SJHP Remington (green box) out of his Super Redhawk with good results as well.

If you have the cash outlay one of those ultra light S&W .44Mags (329PD) with a 4" barrel would pack pretty light and have the stopping power you need. I wouldn't want to shoot it at the range alot with full house .44 Mags but I'd be glad I had it should a bear attack.
Will

[MCgunner]

4" stainless K frame would be just the ticket in .357. Also, I rather like the little SP101 with 3" barrel, only 28 ounces. Taurus Trackers are light and accurate in 4". An old Ruger Security Six or M66 Smith and Wesson would be great. Lots of choices in light .357s. Get into .44 mag and you're 40 ounces and up even with the mountain gun.

My own choice is a superbly accurate M66 Nickeled Taurus. I'd rather have stainless, but the gun is so friggin' accurate, it's the choice. Nickel is pretty rust resistant and I carry in a nylon flap holster t protect it. In the past, I've used a Security Six (wonderfully light and plenty strong), a M971 Rossi (only a tad over 30 ounces for a 4" full lugged gun. I rather liked that one for it's weight, even lighter than the security six. I had a blued M19, but didn't tote it, much because I had the security six at the same time and it was stainless. I've carried my 6.5" Blackhawk and my 4 5/8" .45 colt blackhawk on day long hikes and the 40 ounces they weigh gets a little heavy even if you ain't carrying a full overnight load on the pack. That little Rossi really rode light. I know they're "cheap" guns, but it was pretty accurate and in stainless and never wore out through probably 10K rounds, some of which were pretty hot loads. Good little outdoor gun. My Taurus is more accurate, though, so I don't miss the Rossi a whole lot for hiking.

[MillCreek]

As a backpacker, hiker, snowshoer and XC skier in the Pacific NW for 38 years, my backcountry carry of choice is a short-barrel stainless .357, typically loaded with something in the 150-180 grain range. For compactness sake, in recent years, my carry has been a Ruger SP-101.

[Erik]

"Any Thoughts?"

Yes, the .357 is an adequate minimum, assuming proper ammunition and a prudent choice of revolvers to shoot it from. Larger options are arguably more prudent... to a point. The stoutest hand cannons are not necessary for what you are describing.

In your shoes I'd opt for a 4" Redhawk or perhaps a 3-4" N frame in .45 LC or .44 magnum. But that's me. Let us know what you decide on.

[Furncliff]

http://www.buffalobore.com/

For serious ammo.

[wnycollector]

I agree with the other posters that a 4" used stainless Ruger Six (security, speed or police) or S&W K frame (model 65 or 66) will do the trick.

here are two nice examples for less than $300.
http://www.gunsamerica.com/911223022/Guns/Pistols/Smith-Wesson-Revolvers/Full-Frame-Revolver/S_W_65_4_Sts_357_HB_4_in_VG_1992.htm

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=94613379

FYI my personal backpack/hiking/canoeing sidearm is a SS 2.75" Ruger Security Six loaded with S&B 158gr SP's or double tap 180gr WFNGC hard casts.

[19-3Ben]

My suggestion is to get a Ruger Gp100 with a 3" bbl, and get some of these to load. (http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_27&products_id=49)

[Brian Williams]

S&W K frame,
Ruger six series
Ruger SP-101

[DFW1911]

Good suggestions so far. I'd also consider the S&W 327PD with a 4 inch barrel. It's a .357/.38, holds 8 rounds, and is light (23 ounces) - good for backpacking (pic attached).

Recoil may be a bit tough in .357: you'll want to test fire one if you can.
I have a 329PD in .44 that's been an exceptional carry gun in the back woods.

I would also recommend a Ruger GP100 4 inch or Ruger SP101 3 inch.

Have fun!

Take Care,
DFW1911

[glockman19]

.357 Mag at the minimum IMO. .38 aint going to get it. Also 4" barrel at a minimum.

I agree on both but I carry a S&W 629 5" and a Marlin 1894SS in .44mag when seriously camping/packing in the back country. If I'm at a local campground in a more populated area I'd at very leaset take a .357 in a 4" barrel.

[MCgunner]

Another good choice, M60 Smith. They've made 'em with 5" barrel and adjustable sights. Not sure what's available now, but that would make a mean back packers companion IMHO, very light and easy to shoot and 5" barrel for added velocity.

http://www.smithwessonhandguns.com/item/45818_Smith__Wesson_Model_60_R.aspx

[markmc753]

Backpacking gun: Weight is a serious issue: General backcountry use I carry a 360pd (12oz) ... if in Griz country... a Taurus 444 ultralite (27oz)

[woad_yurt]

Just curious:
What about a TT33 or CZ 52? That 7.62X25 goes through Kevlar helmets so it should go through a black bear's bones.

[10-Ring]

In a pack gun...2 choices. In a semi auto, a Glock 30. In a wheelgun, a SP101

[trickyasafox]

I think the Mod tacked this one perfect-

An SP101 is about tops for what your saying.

A midsized 40 / 10mm would also do well by you.

[Mainsail]

http://img.geocaching.com/cache/a7f528c2-39b0-47be-bb9e-40d76a60b901.jpg

[psyopspec]

.357 should be fine. Honestly, most black bear in that region will only attack if you come between them and their young, and remember, you don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than your buddy.

Personally I prefer automatics, so I would go with a Glock 20 in a thigh rig.

[Samuel Adams]

The guys I talked to while in Alaska several years ago recommended a 12 guage shotgun loaded with slugs in case a bear came close while they were out fishing.

[DWARREN123]

Ruger, 4", stainless in 44 mag or GLOCK 20 in 10mm.

[MCgunner]

A black bear does not require a shotgun. It ain't no brownie. Alaska is not in the lower 48 and things that relate here, don't relate up there.

[Blackhawkdc]

Thanks for all the advice folks. Sounds like I'm on the right track looking at something in 357mag. The CZ 52 sounds like a possibility as well. Ammo would be more difficult to come by, but I do reload rifle ammo already, so it wouldn't be that hard to pick up what I'd need for the 7.62 round. The Ruger SP101 would be my ideal sidearm, but I can probably get a better deal on a S&W, or another arm. Money is tight, so I have to look at where I can get the best deal too. My biggest thought with something in 357 mag is the ability to shoot 38 specials through it at the range to be able to get used to it and gain some practice without battering my hands, wrists, and arms.

Thanks again all!!

SGP

[wnycollector]

The Ruger SP101 would be my ideal sidearm

If $$$ is tight, I suggest that you try to find a used ruger security or speed six in SS with the 2.75" barrel. I picked mine for $275 at a local gun show. A Sp101 will run you at least $100 more. Plus you get a 6 shot vs. 5 shot!

[BlackDrop50]

I have an SP101 but I also recommend a Glock 20.

[Kind of Blued]

Glock 20 or 29 gets my vote. I'm actually suprised the 10mm Glock hasn't gotten more.

Light, cheap, high capacity, stellar penetration.

[Blackhawkdc]

I understand the thoughts behind the Glocks, and agree that they are excellent options for home and self defense. But I have yet to be convinced that a 9mm or even a 45ACP would truly work in my situation, not to put them down. The 10mm round, I'm not too familiar with and unfamiliar with its stopping power. Glocks, also, are a bit out of my price range, as well as most 1911 style sidearms. The joys of being single and trying to purchase a house.

Thanks all!

SGP

[MCgunner]

Hot 10mm is about as effective as hot, heavy bullet .357 and costs a lot more if you don't wanna handload for it. No auto is either as versatile or as accurate as a good K frame .357, either. Those .38 wadcutters not only make great practice ammo, but are generally very accurate and perfect for small game, squirrel, rabbit and such. I've shot a lot of camp meat with a 4" .357 using wadcutters. G20s are large, heavy guns, too. A nice 4" M66 Smith is about 33 ounces on the hip. This is why it took over from N frames in police holsters in the late 50s, early 60s. Beat cops didn't want all that extra weight and as a hiker, I don't either.

To me, the revolver will always be the best choice for outdoor carry.

[skywarp_]

10mm is more effective than a similarly sized revolver


my 686+ is similar in size and carries 7rnds of some pretty potent medicine.


my glock 20 is lighter and carries 16 rounds of some very potent medicine (provided by doubletap).


I can reload the glock faster and using trigger reset i can lay down accurate fire faster than i can with a long heavy double action trigger. there is nothing i can think of backpacking in the woods that's gonna get a glock to malfunction.

[MCgunner]

Just how many shots to you think you're going to get a chance to "spray" at a charging bear? :rolleyes: Hunting is about one shot kills. Accuracy trumps firepower, that's why I like Contenders. I can't imagine you could get 16 rounds off at a charging black bear, either, not aimed, not even unaimed, before you got ate.

Hell, I have single actions I carry afield, not being real worried about bear attacks anyway nor firepower. A .45 Colt pushing a 300 grain bullet to near 1200 fps won't take 16 rounds to stop anything I'll see and the gun is quite accurate. I guess if you were walkin' around the border in Aridzona or west Texas and worried about drug runners, I could see an auto. But, for bear defense, ain't like you're going to be running tree to tree shooting it out with the bear behind cover doing tac reloads and stuff. Suit yourself, but I still prefer the versatility of a good revolver afield, always have, always will. And, if weight is a factor, a K frame is a lot better choice than a 686. 32 ounces vs 40.

BTW, when I wanna hit something in the field, I cock the hammer and fire single action. DA is for short range human confrontations. Forget it exists for hunting and field uses. Learn to shoot the revolver SA. Most have a very light, crisp trigger in SA mode.

[searcher451]

Whatever you decide to do, I don't think that I'd spend a lot of money on a NIB gun. Backpacking is generally rough-and-tumble (at least in my neck of the woods), and worrying about the finish on a brand new gun should be the last thing on your mind. Find yourself a used and reliable stainless firearm, make sure it's 100% dependable and fits your hand, and have at it in the great outdoors.

[skywarp_]

Just how many shots to you think you're going to get a chance to "spray" at a charging bear? Hunting is about one shot kills. Accuracy trumps firepower, that's why I like Contenders. I can't imagine you could get 16 rounds off at a charging black bear, either, not aimed, not even unaimed, before you got ate.

Hell, I have single actions I carry afield, not being real worried about bear attacks anyway nor firepower. A .45 Colt pushing a 300 grain bullet to near 1200 fps won't take 16 rounds to stop anything I'll see and the gun is quite accurate. I guess if you were walkin' around the border in Aridzona or west Texas and worried about drug runners, I could see an auto. But, for bear defense, ain't like you're going to be running tree to tree shooting it out with the bear behind cover doing tac reloads and stuff. Suit yourself, but I still prefer the versatility of a good revolver afield, always have, always will. And, if weight is a factor, a K frame is a lot better choice than a 686. 32 ounces vs 40.

BTW, when I wanna hit something in the field, I cock the hammer and fire single action. DA is for short range human confrontations. Forget it exists for hunting and field uses. Learn to shoot the revolver SA. Most have a very light, crisp trigger in SA mode.



The minimal amount would be the amount needed to ensure survival.

Hunting is all about one shot(hopefully), ethical kills after fair chase, survival is about fighting tooth and nail and giving yourself all possible advantages. If ambushed by a bear he may not be as skilled as you to remember to draw, pull the hammer back, aim, fire and down the attacker in one precise shot. Odds are it will be a frantic frenzied blur. I'd take a 5.5 lb short trigger for that and all the ammo you can muster. If he dies after the first shot, excellent. If not, having more is always better.

Animals, like people, often don't know they are dying in survival situations. One shot despite placement may not be enough. Deer don't always die on the spot, nor do bears, rabbits, antelopes and people. this isn't about bringing home the bacon it's about saving yours. Default to the safest possible.

Out west we stalked our prey into canyons, creek beds, forests, up mountains, back down mountains, and into situations predators have been ambushing their prey for thousands of years. Time is a luxury. Err on the side of maximum survivability. Hard to beat a glock for that. Accuracy, reliability and firepower leads to the 10mm in the Glock 20.

Loaded with 15 rounds in the mag the gun weighs 39oz.

[Ed Ames]

Does a 10mm glock come even close to meeting the price constraint?

The revolver has a few major advantages... price, ammunition flexibility (including shot shells and light loads for small game that wouldn't cycle an auto set up for full loads), operation cost, environmental friendliness (doesn't chuck brass everywhere) and so on... mainly it's "good enough". I'm not sure where a couple hundred more for a glock will buy any real improvement.

Don't get me wrong... the glock is fine if that's all you have... but for the OP it seems like a .357 revolver would be a much better fit for his stated problem.

[BlindJustice]

S&W Model 60 .357 Mag 3" Bbl. at 24 ounces
it'll handle some 158 gr. JSP with manageable recoil.
Get a safarland COMP-I speedloader. As well as some
CCI/SPeer shot shells for light game

[wheelgunslinger]

CZ52 and 357 mag wheelie are good choices.
The CZ would need to be very accurately fired to zap the bear's brainstem. But, the 357 requires much of the same.

Thigh holsters should be crossed off the list, for sure. They are way uncomfortable for even the shortest of jaunts. We're talking backpacking here. You'd be ready to throw that thing away after 1 mile.

I carry a 357 when packing. I stoke it with God Dots, keep 1 speedloader handy, and that's it.

[Huddog]

I don't know much about bear since I don't go where they are much but I do love my SP 101 and highly recommend it for a compact .357, although the S&W 3 series are probably lighter.

[Blackhawkdc]

Hey All, thanks again for the continued thoughts and opinions. I've also started considering something a little bigger. Along the lines of a Ruger GP100. Thoughts on this? Wheelgunslinger? What do you carry?

Thanks,

SGP

[markmc753]

As an avid backpacker and expedition kayaker, I have to say that in my opinion, for a weapon you intend to backpack with, you will rue the day that you holstered a GP100, CZ 52, other big auto, or wheelie... they are too heavy to be reasonable as serious backpacking guns..... I would give a HUGE amount of thought to the weight of the gun, Also, I would stick to a wheelie in either 44 or 357..