AR .22 Mag conversions?


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NG VI
March 22, 2008, 02:12 AM
So in light of the recent rash of AR .22 conversion posts, which I was definitely a part of, a frequent problem that came up was .22LR having a slightly smaller size than the .224 barrels of the AR, plus the almost always un-jacketed bullets .22 LR uses.

Well .22 WMR uses a .224 bore size, plus almost all the .22WMR bullets are jacketed. That seems to defeat the issues with using a .22LR conversion bolt, and address the accuracy issue as well. Does anyone make a ciener-type .22 WMR bolt/magazine adapter for the AR? If not, *** are the manufacturers thinking? Why is this not an equally common accessory as the .22LR bolt/magazine?

Because even though .22WMR is way more expensive than .22LR, it's still far cheaper than .223/5.56, and I want one now.

Who's with me on this one? if not, why wouldn't it work?

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ugaarguy
March 22, 2008, 02:39 AM
If not, *** are the manufacturers thinking? Why is this not an equally common accessory as the .22LR bolt/magazine?
if not, why wouldn't it work?
The extra length of the 22 WMR without a larger bottle neck case - like the .223 - causes feed problems in semi autos. The case is too long for its width to ramp up and feed. Ruger, Marlin, and Remington have all tried doing .22 WMR semi-autos. None could get them to feed right, and all were discontinued. It's the same reason you don't see .22 WMR or .17 HMR semi-auto pistols - they won't feed. I'd love to get a .22 WMR bolt & mag conversion for my ARs. It's a wonderful idea in concept for all the reasons you list. If someone could get past the feed problems and make it work in practice they'd stand to make substantial money. It would further pull in many non-AR fan varmint hunters to the AR platform if it was the only viable 22 WMR / .17 HMR (with top end swap of course) semi auto.

NG VI
March 22, 2008, 02:57 AM
Except the Auto-mag...

Thats great information though and I am really on my own, I just this month have been accepted to a range and otherwise I've been teachoing myself how to shoot properly on my own, that and my great scores on Army ranges.

That is really too bad that the case shape is causing such major problems with feeding, but it makes sense since i'm sure that manufacturers can't possibly be dumb enough to have ALL missed out on something so good and so sure to pull in customers.

I bet more than three quarters of all AR owners would buy a .22 WMR upper or conversion if one were available.

Now to convince someone that it would be worth making it work.../

Bergeron
March 22, 2008, 06:06 PM
In a Shotgun News a couple of months back, there was coverage of Knob Creek, with a picture of Jonathan Cenier shooting a prototype .22 WMR conversion.

If that ends up happening, I'm buying a heavy .17HMR barrel, Magpul PRS stock, and a JP trigger group.

mp510
March 22, 2008, 08:51 PM
The point of the .22LR conversions is to allow cheap shooting. With my .22 LR conversion, I can shoot about 15 rounds of .22LR for the cost of 1 round of 5.56. .22WMR would be more like 2 rounds per 5.56 round. In the past, it would have been a lot closer to a 1:1 ratio.

Why is this not an equally common accessory as the .22LR bolt/magazine?
Economics! Also, many indoor ranges allow .22LR and not .22 WMR.

DMK
March 22, 2008, 09:04 PM
I love my 22LR conversion and my 7.62x39 conversion. I've even considered a 9mm upper.

I'm not interested in a 22mag AR though. I just don't see any benefit to it over 223/5.56.

ugaarguy
March 23, 2008, 12:33 AM
In a Shotgun News a couple of months back, there was coverage of Knob Creek, with a picture of Jonathan Cenier shooting a prototype .22 WMR conversion.
Well that is interesting. If he can make the thing feed well that would rock. Plus the whole two pins and a 17 HMR bbl. upper pops on is also appealing. That's very hopeful news.

VA27
March 23, 2008, 12:42 AM
There have been a number of semi-auto 22 magnums that worked, and worked well.

H&R 700
H&K 300
CZ611
Marlin 922
Remington 597M

The Remington is the only one still available new.

AFAIK, the Ruger 10/22M is the only one discontinued for reliability problems.

In pistols, the Grendel and the AMT AutomagII both worked well. The Automag is supposed to be back in production this year, from High Standard.

Excel Arms has a semi-auto rifle, but I've not seen or shot one. They also have a pistol and they catalog a 22 mag conversion for the 1911. I've not seen or shot one of those, either.

Lots of options for the person wanting a 22 mag autoloader.

Oh, and yes, I'd like a 22 mag conversion for the AR or AK. One for the Mini14 would give a guy a 22 mag with the Ruger name on it that actually worked.

ugaarguy
March 23, 2008, 01:18 AM
The Remington is the only one still available new.
It may still be in their catalog, but to my knowledge they aren't shipping them. And they do have reliability problems. It's my understanding that the Marlin also had reliability problems.

NG VI
March 24, 2008, 10:27 PM
Good points. I think a 9MM and .22LR uppers would be fine now, I think I just got caught up in a spell of wanting a .22 mag, combined with my love of caliber changes.

Stumpknocker
April 2, 2011, 04:33 PM
Sorry for resurrecting the dead, but a new thread asking the same thing seemed ridiculous. I recently decided that I wanted to build my first AR, and was looking at my options caliber-wise and it just seemed peculiar that I saw no mention of .22 mag. So of course I come to THR to find out if there ever was/ever will be a .22 mag option for the AR platform. Since this thread is just over 3 years old, has anything changed in this situation, or is the 22 mag still not seen as being worth anyone's trouble to offer?

NG VI
April 2, 2011, 04:59 PM
I completely forgot about this thread, talk about a flashback...


I haven't heard anything new on this front, maybe someone else has.

DM~
April 3, 2011, 10:46 AM
It may still be in their catalog, but to my knowledge they aren't shipping them. And they do have reliability problems. It's my understanding that the Marlin also had reliability problems.


Balony! I have the Remington 597M and it's NEVER failed to feed, fire, and eject perfectly! I know of several others that work perfectly too, just like mine does.

I use mine often, and i'd buy another in a heartbeat!

http://www.fototime.com/FDF9B60AA3461F6/orig.jpg

DM

CraigC
April 3, 2011, 12:54 PM
Feeding from the magazine is not the issue, it's designing an action that can cycle with the weird pressure curve.

I see lots of merit to this conversion. The .22Mag is much less expensive to shoot, I stocked up on Winchester 40gr JHP's for $8/50rds, while the cheapest domestic .223 runs around $8/20. That's a big difference. The .22Mag is much better suited to small varmints and predators within 150yds.

mtnkid85
April 3, 2011, 01:12 PM
I voted stupid.

The reason there are .22lr conversion is price alone. That is the only round in its price range. ~4 cents.

If your going to .22mag, why not simply go to 9mm instead? A quick search says ~15.5 cents per .22wmr or ~15.9 cents for cheap 9mm. Then if you reload you can get 9mm down to 10-11 cents.

.22wmr just doesnt make much...cents... to me. lol.

JDMorris
April 3, 2011, 01:19 PM
I voted stupid, because I reload .223, and I also don't shoot AR's much because I don't enjoy carbines that snap like the XM-15MOE does, it's my dad's, but when not using the .22 bolt, and trying past 100 yards it's a 4 MOA gun because the ACOG is only 3.5x and the trigger is the worst I've ever used.

CraigC
April 3, 2011, 02:22 PM
If your going to .22mag, why not simply go to 9mm instead?
Apples to oranges. .22Mag is still cheaper, that is, comparing similar loads, not premium expanding .22Mag to el cheapo 9mm FMJ. The .22WMR is infinitely better suited to field use and less prone to ricochet.

NG VI
April 3, 2011, 06:22 PM
Well I still think it would be pretty cool. Get a little more range and effect than the .22 LR conversions, it's still not that expensive, and it would be fun.

x_wrench
April 5, 2011, 07:04 AM
i understand the reasoning behind the conversions, but personally, i would not go that route. as for the 22 mag conversion idea, i would not go with that either. with the cost of conventional 22lr rounds, there is a reasonable break even point, where you will pay for the conversion costs with the savings in ammo prices. in 22 mag, that break even point would be a lot further off. it think from a cost standpoint, you might be better off buying reloading equipment, and loading your own. then you can still shoot full power rounds, and get all the practicing your wallet and time will allow. plus when you want, or God forbid really NEED your ar15, it will be an ar15, and not a 22lr.

CraigC
April 5, 2011, 09:49 AM
...from a cost standpoint, you might be better off buying reloading equipment, and loading your own.
Does no one place any value on their time? It always baffles me how little a performance gap people think there is between the .22LR and the .223. Of course, if you're just punching paper then I reckon it doesn't matter.

69Rebel
April 5, 2011, 11:29 AM
I always wanted an HK Model 300. But for the price of one, I could buy like three cases of 5.56 ammo.:(
If I wanted a sub-caliber conversion, I think I would just go with a 22LR upper for an AR. Or even a drop in adaptor.

DM~
April 5, 2011, 12:02 PM
I always wanted an HK Model 300. But for the price of one, I could buy like three cases of 5.56 ammo.


And when you got tired of it, you could have sold it for, or more than you paid for it!

DM

NG VI
April 5, 2011, 01:37 PM
or God forbid really NEED your ar15, it will be an ar15, and not a 22lr.


They don't have to stay rimfire, doesn't even take a minute to change it back to centerfire.

bigmike45
April 5, 2011, 06:06 PM
UGAARGUY,
It's the same reason you don't see .22 WMR or .17 HMR semi-auto pistols - they won't feed. I'd love to get a .22 WMR bolt & mag conversion for my ARs. It's a wonderful idea in concept for all the reasons you list. If someone could get past the feed problems and make it work in

You might want to check around.....Kel-Tec is making the PMR-30 which is an autoloading 22WMR pistol, the mag holds 30 rounds and it works flawlessly. Here is a picture of mine. I recently loaded and emptied all three mags....twice without any malfunctions.....thats 180 rounds and yes it hurt my pocketbook. I would love to have an upper for my RRA that is 22WMR.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f43/mike_seale/PMR1.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f43/mike_seale/PMR2.jpg

pikid89
April 5, 2011, 06:10 PM
http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=5662

do want

bigmike45
April 5, 2011, 09:54 PM
Yes I have seen that in advertisement and I would love to try one. I am very partial to the KelTec products, but would love to have an AR upper in 22WMR.

My KelTec's include a

P32
P11
PF9
PMR-30
and
the SBR.

I would also like to get my hands on the new Shotgun!!!

69Rebel
April 6, 2011, 12:32 AM
And when you got tired of it, you could have sold it for, or more than you paid for it!

True enough.

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