KelTec Sub 2000 Rifle- Worth it?


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Packman
March 22, 2008, 01:25 PM
I went into my local gunshop today to look at scopes and (as usual) got sidetracked. They just got a new shipment of Kel-Tec stuff in, so I got to look at them. Turns out those pistols aren't quite so small as they lead to you believe on the site, at least in my opinion.

One thing I've always glossed over on the KT website was the Sub 2000 Rifle. They had one at the shop today, and it caught my eye and impressed me. It was the 9mm model, accepting Glock magazines. I was overall impressed with the weapon, and I've spent the past hour or so reading nothing but positive reviews of it.

At the shop, it was listed at $409. after tax and fees, it'd be about $445. Is this worth it? the MSRP is $406. My main use for this would be as a plinking gun and probably a truck gun.

According to Kel-Tec, you can't use aluminum cased ammo with it. What ammo does that rule out? could I use 9mm NATO FMJ? how about Federal American Eagle? (I'm trying to establish ammo costs. Ammoman.com has nice deals.)

Any help is appreciated, but please, if you haven't shot or handled this gun, please don't chime in. I can read reviews just as well as you can.

Thanks, Packman.

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coondawg47
March 22, 2008, 01:44 PM
I have one, 9mm (beretta mag version). I can hit 16 oz soda bottles at 100 yards all day, never had a FTF or FTE with 1000 plus rounds through the rifle. The new version has a more easier to adjust front site. The trigger is horrible new but does get better after 200-400 rounds (at least mine did). Hard to scope without modifying the hand guards. I took an old b-square SKS scope mount and modified it for the sub, works great for a red dot or scope and I didn't have to drill holes or modify my hand guards in any way. This URL will show you what I did. http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1202191097/16#16
It is a great niche rifle and goes on all my trips outside civilization.

Soybomb
March 22, 2008, 01:55 PM
According to Kel-Tec, you can't use aluminum cased ammo with it. What ammo does that rule out?
Blazer is aluminum. As I recall the sub2k takes +P rounds so I'd think nato would be fine.

Personally if I want a rifle, I want it fire a rifle catridge for defense. For plinking it'd be fun.

Packman
March 22, 2008, 01:56 PM
coondawg, that's a pretty slick scope mount. mind me asking what you paid for the rifle?

loki.fish
March 22, 2008, 02:51 PM
A friend picked up a used one that takes the S&W (59 series I think) magazines. He had a few magazine related issues, but once he got a few new ones it ran like a charm. We were hitting a metal swinging target at 100 yards with ease. I was very impressed by it. I wouldn't recommend the S&W version. I'd like to get one that takes Glock magazines, but I want an MP5 clone first :)

coondawg47
March 22, 2008, 02:54 PM
Packman, I bought mine about three years ago. I think I paid about $325 for it brand new. I had my local gun shop order the Beretta version as I have a 92F/S.

Packman
March 22, 2008, 03:48 PM
Thanks coondawg. At this point, I'm kind of leaning towards maybe getting one. It'll be a couple weeks before I set the funds aside, but we'll see.

coondawg47
March 22, 2008, 05:29 PM
Packman,

Like you, I read everything I could find before buying one. What sold me on the sub was the ability to fold. This allowed me to travel with the sub in my pistol case across Nebraska, weapons have to be cased there. This meant only one case versus two. I also like the fact it shares mags with my 92 and uses cheap ammunition. It is not a replacement for a rifle, but fits my needs well. It is also very fun to shoot with and my whole family loves the sub. My wife claimed it for awhile as hers until she shot my Maadi Ak, then I lost that to her. Did allow me to get another AK to "replace the one that is now hers" I really "hate having to buy another gun". If you buy one post a range report.

goon
March 22, 2008, 08:04 PM
I've been interested in these too but I'm kind of worried about two things -

1. How is the breech/action made? How much is it depending on polymer to keep it from detonating under the force of a round firing? How much steel is supporting this area?

2. The sights look kind of fragile to me. Are they as easily broken as they look?

Not trying to hi-jack but I thought I'd add a couple more questions to get a clear picture.

coondawg47
March 22, 2008, 08:12 PM
Goon,

The chamber area is almost a 1/4 of an inch in thickness, then surrounded by polymer. I have never heard or read about any sub chamber failing. The sites are polymer but I have not had any problems with toughness as I am pretty rough on my guns and test each one I buy to the nth degree. I wouldn't pry anything open with it but I wouldn't do that with any weapon either.

Walkalong
March 22, 2008, 09:36 PM
I have a 9MM S&W version and I really like it. :)

Princi
March 22, 2008, 10:54 PM
I bought one last week in 9mm with Beretta magazine. I shot it for the first time yesterday off the bench. I do not recommend shooting off the bench. I can't believe how it kicks. I also had quite a time getting the front sight adjusted - it isn't a couple of clicks type of operation. The azimuth isn't too bad, but the elevation was what gave me the difficulty.

It grouped very well. I was extremely pleased with the accuracy. However, in order to see the sights well, I ended up with my cheek bone on the "stock". I noticed on the way home that it was hurting. In fact it is still a little tender.

I bought mine at www.sportingarms.com for $289 plus $7 for gas to drive to and from Lewisville to my house. She had two in stock at the time.

Uh, my H&K Carbine in .45ACP has quite a kick too, but cost 4 times as much and doesn't have the cool factor that the Kel-tec has.

Packman
March 23, 2008, 12:42 AM
Thanks for all the input everyone. Couple more questions.

How rugged are those sights when the rifle is open? if you hit it hard, would that rear sight snap off? I assume the dust cover from KT is a worthwhile purchase?

Looks like Princi got a decent price, that's 100$ lower than what i saw in the store. Only problem I have with that is payment method. How does it work when ordering a firearm online? Do you use a credit card and pay the website, then pickup from your local FFL, or do you pay everything at your local FFL? I try to keep all my firearm stuff in Cash. If I have the spare cash for it, I know I can afford it. Keeps me out of trouble that way.

ReadyFreddy23
March 23, 2008, 12:54 AM
Pacman,

I did the same thing that you're doing. In fact, it was just a couple of weeks ago that I posted a similar thread on this forum. Do a search with my username to find it. I've read nothing but positive reviews and the only thing stopping me from getting one sooner was the lack of supply at my local gun stores. I made call this past Thursday and one of the stores just got (4) 9mm
Sub 2000's that use Glock magazines. It was marked $399.99 but I bought it for $319.99 plus tax and background fee. I took it to the range Friday (yesterday) and it's fun to shoot. Reasonably accurate (more than I'd hoped for). My suggestion would be to buy Sub 2000 and also buy the stock extension from Kel-Tec and the tube guard from Blue Force Gear. There are many accessories available for the Sub 2000. Spare mag carrier, metal replacement sight, short picatinny rail, Kel-Tec soft rifle case, spring loaded scope mount, & 33 round Glock stick mags. Buy it. You'll love it. If you don't, I'd be willing to bet that you could get most of your money back out of it very quickly. You should have seen the faces of the people at the range when I folded it and unfolded it.:neener: The looks were priceless.:what:

BTW, I shot Winchester White Box 9mm FMJ from Wal-Mart and no problems at all.

coondawg47
March 23, 2008, 01:08 AM
Packman,

The sights are not as as rugged as say an AR but you would have to be using the rifle to bash someone or deliberately attempt to break them off. I have never heard or read of anyone that has had that happen. Readyfreddy gave some good advise on what to buy as addons, I would stay away from the swing scope mount as you must seriously modify the rifle handguards to get it to work. Those that have installed them say the zero constantly wonders with the swing mount.

michiganfan
March 23, 2008, 09:31 AM
It is a fun gun. Quite accurate. Price seems high.

Companion Cube
March 23, 2008, 09:53 AM
The price seems high? Since when is $350 a lot of money for a new rifle?

michiganfan
March 23, 2008, 10:18 AM
I thought the original poster said his place wanted 409. Plus tax.

Nikdfish
March 23, 2008, 10:41 AM
I've got a Beretta grip model (since that was all I could find in stock when I was looking ...) that cost me about $300. The only real dislike was the "key" used for locking/unlocking it in the folded condition, a lessor dislike being the sights.

It is much more fun to shoot since adding (adapting) a weaver converta-mount so I could use a red-dot - also much easier to be accurate (jagged hole groupings at 25 yards). Takes maybe 30 seconds to re-mount the red-dot & has been holding zero w/no problem.

http://www.skhowell.com/images/web-IMGP0986.jpg

I posted a thread on using the converta-mount here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=4263310&highlight=converta#post4263310

I ended up opening up the rear sight to function more like a ghost ring than a peep sight for use when the red-dot is not mounted...

It makes for a neat, portable, high cap package - no problem stashing it in a brief case (or laptop case, or messenger bag) with several 30 round mags. I definately recommend getting the 1" butt stock exstension, it's not expensive & doesn't add anything to the folded length.

Nick

Princi
March 24, 2008, 12:12 AM
I don't know about other companies, but I do know how it works with http://www.sportingarms.com

If you can't pick up the gun in Lewisville, they will mail it to a FFL that is near you and will receive the gun and handle the paperwork for you to legally buy the gun (providing you aren't a convicted felon). The prices they show on their web-site are cash prices. You can send them a cashier check that covers the cost of the gun and shipping it to your FFL. If you want to pay by credit-card, then there is a 2% sur-charge.

You need to find out what your FFL charges to receive a gun for you. Most in this area are $20. If you live in Texas, you also have to pay sales taxes.

Summary: Cost of gun + shipping to your FFL + FFL fee + 2% credit card fee + [sales tax]

GigaBuist
March 24, 2008, 01:14 AM
The sights are not as as rugged as say an AR but you would have to be using the rifle to bash someone or deliberately attempt to break them off. I have never heard or read of anyone that has had that happen.

I broke my front sight post in short order. I was using a quarter to loosen it up and tighten it back down. I cracked it right in half.

I ordered up a new front sight housing form Blue-Force Gear and dropped a tritium post into it. While I was on the Blue-Force Gear sight I snagged the buffer tube protector (the steel banging my cheek made it tender) and I'm happy with that. Add on the 1" stock extension from Kel-Tec and I'm quite happy with the piece.

I paid $250 for mine, but that was a close-out deal when a local FFL retired. His regular price was $300, and I agreed to that price, but he went back and looked up what it actually cost him and gave it to me for that. Probably helped that I bought two other pistols from him that day.

I do not recommend shooting off the bench. I can't believe how it kicks.
With all due respect, if that little 9mm carbine is giving you trouble off a bench you're either doing something really wrong or have very little tolerance for recoil. I consider myself a bit of a wuss when it comes to recoil but the Sub 2k doesn't even register. Heck, I've let 9 year old boys shoot the thing before.

Auburn1992
March 24, 2008, 01:25 AM
I just did a quick scan and you would be overpaying by alot. The ones I found NIB were listed for 299 and 325 max. As to the ammo, aluminum is found in Blazer ammunition, not American Eagle nor Winchester White Box or basically any other manufacturer.

deadasslast2004
March 25, 2008, 12:15 PM
I anm gonna have to do one on moine now.... thanks a lot now i gotta go spend some MORE money ... Another thing I can;t tell her!

geees honey it was only 4 or 5 bucks... I promise!

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