Almost there! Some more quick AK/Saiga questions.


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BATTLESUIT
March 23, 2008, 02:14 AM
I've narrowed my search, and now I'm considering two rifles. The Saiga 308 or the Saiga 308 version 21. I'm leaning towards version 21, because it looks like the trigger assembly is closer to the position of that of the AK-47. Any input on these two rifles would be welcomed.

My specific questions are whether these rifles can be fitted with some AK-47 parts, such as the 47s wooden fore-end, and other after-market parts; and how difficult a modification would it be to allow the Saiga 308 to accept standard AK-47 magazines? Is it possible for these rifles to accept Saiga and AK magazines after modification?

Can anyone kick me the web address for the Saiga forum again?

After I figure out which rifle I'm going to buy, then I'll want to talk optics. Thanks in advance.

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Girodin
March 23, 2008, 03:30 AM
http://forum.saiga-12.com/

rangerruck
March 23, 2008, 01:45 PM
there is no such thing as a 308 / ak 47 mag.
get surefire aftermarket mags , which are 20 or 25 rounders.
the other two can accept both type mags, mine sure do, with a little dremeling, and
also it wouldn't hurt to get a Dinzag made bullet guide. Also , there are guys who make wooden
aftermarket furniture for the saiga. On the saiga site.

pmbiker
March 23, 2008, 02:16 PM
Any saiga, regardless of model # will have the trigger/hammer in the same location. The PG type stock being sold on some Saigas is just an optical illusion. In order to install a PG and correct buttstock on a saiga .308, you still have to remove the bottom plate, make sure the holes are all there (PG nut and trigger) and re-install the trigger guard in it's proper location.

I've personally converted 2 of the saiga 308s and one in 7.62x39.
The 308 was much easier but the x39 wasn't bad. Also the 308 version doesn't need a bullet guide. The factory and aftermarked mags have one built in. If you want your x39 to run with standard AK mags the bullet guide needs installed and the mag catch needs trimmed.

It is possible to install most AK parts on a saiga. The lower HG needs a retainer, available from Dinzag and the upper requires a .mil gas tube. All PGs and stocks made for a stamped reciever will fit. The barrel on the .308 is FAT under the handguard. If you are going to install anything that may connect to the barrel, take that into consideration.

fal 4 me
March 23, 2008, 02:41 PM
Any saiga, regardless of model # will have the trigger/hammer in the same location. The PG type stock being sold on some Saigas is just an optical illusion.

This is not correct. Even a quick glance at the .308 v21 clearly shows the trigger in the correct AK position. http://www.raacfirearms.com/rifles.htm
Here's a link to the Russian American Arms rifles page.

kcmarine
March 23, 2008, 02:44 PM
Hm... I believe it's time that we just made a sticky about Saigas. Cause you know no one visits Saiga12 through the links.

nalioth
March 23, 2008, 02:58 PM
get surefire aftermarket mags , which are 20 or 25 rounders.
it wouldn't hurt to get a Dinzag made bullet guide. Users of the 25 round Surefire .308 Saiga mag need no bullet guide.

pmbiker
March 23, 2008, 08:58 PM
This is not correct. Even a quick glance at the .308 v21 clearly shows the trigger in the correct AK position. http://www.raacfirearms.com/rifles.htm
Here's a link to the Russian American Arms rifles page.

My bad. I had't seen that one, thought he was referring to the one with the optional plastic thumbhole stock. The website says avail. Fall '07, anybody seen or ordered one yet? I know how the firearms industry is so I don't expect so. The v21 would be the way to go. The conversion would be, well, not needed. Maybe a little hardware but no bottom plate, no moving the trigger guard etc.

Lets just hope that's a square cut reciever under the butthole stock. The Romanians and Chinese have done it to us before.:cuss:

Jguy101
March 23, 2008, 09:28 PM
No, it's angle cut; a few people on the Saiga forum have them, and they look really nice.

kcmarine
March 23, 2008, 09:39 PM
Lets just hope that's a square cut reciever under the butthole stock. The Romanians and Chinese have done it to us before.

The butthole stock? Is that the kind of rifle that pushes the spent cartridge out the bottom of buttstock?:what:;):neener::D:p

MD_Willington
March 23, 2008, 11:17 PM
The 21 is pretty close to the VEPR .308...It even looks like it was built on MOLOT tooling... remember, MOLOT got absorbed by Izhmash, due to patent infringment...

BATTLESUIT
March 24, 2008, 01:17 AM
What I meant was can you have a Saiga 308 accept both standard Saiga mags and standard AK mags? You've seemed to indicate that this can be done. I would assume, then, that I could take a Saiga 308-21, a Saiga mag, and an AK mag to my gun smith and tell him that I want the rifle to accept both.

fal 4 me indicated that the trigger assembly on version 21 IS in the AK-47 position. Is this true? It's the SAME as an AK? This is good information and appreciated.

Sylvan-Forge
March 24, 2008, 01:27 AM
Nothing like milk and cheerios on the moniter, kcmarine :D

Good luck on your project, BATTLESUIT.

SaMx
March 24, 2008, 01:27 AM
no the saiga .308 won't take standark AK mags.
.308 rounds won't fit in them.

BATTLESUIT
March 24, 2008, 05:56 AM
:banghead:Yes, that damn x51 next to the 7.62. This is starting to piss me off. The Saiga 308 doesn't fire 7.62 NATO rounds. Needless to say, I don't know a whole lot about bullets yet, and now I'm back to square one. What is the difference between a 7.62 round with an x39 after it, and one with a freeking x51 after it?:banghead:

LKB3rd
March 24, 2008, 08:10 AM
7.62x51 is known both as .308 and 7.62 NATO. There are some slight differences between the two, but either one can be fired from a Saiga .308. 7.62x39 is used in AK's and AK variants, and (as I am sure you have guessed) is shorter by 11 millimeters. I've heard it called "7.62 Russian."
7.62 x 51(.308) is a more powerful, and generally more accurate round, although that could be because 7.62 x 39 only ever gets fired from AK's, not known for match accuracy.
The only aftermarket magazines that I know of for Saiga .308's are made by Surefire and fbmg. I have read reports of people modifying Saiga .308's to accept M14/M1A magazines as well. Saiga's in 7.62x39 can be modified to accept standard AK magazines, or they can use aftermarket magazines specifically made for Saiga's.
.308 AK's are not very common. Saiga and VEPR are the only ones that I know of. They still use the AK operating system, and many, although not all, parts are interchangeable with standard AK parts. Due to the longer length of the .308 round, magazines are not interchangeable with standard (7.62x39) AK's.
http://forum.saiga-12.com/ Spend a few days reading through old threads at the Saiga forum for more information. Lots of people modify them and come up with all sorts of tricks and tips for them.

CYANIDEGENOCIDE
March 24, 2008, 08:32 AM
The Saiga 308 doesn't fire 7.62 NATO rounds. Needless to say, I don't know a whole lot about bullets yet, and now I'm back to square one. What is the difference between a 7.62 round with an x39 after it, and one with a freeking x51 after it?

actually it does fire 7.62 nato. 7.62 nato, 7.62x51, and .308 are to the intent of this thread the same cartridge. the 7.62 is the diameter of the bullet in millimeters and the second number is the length of the case in millimeters. so no rifle could fire the 7.62 nato and the 7.62x39 interchanably because they required 2 very different chambers, and i have heard there is variations in bullet size, the .308 is a .308 bullet whereas the 7.62x39 is a .310-.312 bullet

strat81
March 24, 2008, 11:43 AM
the .308 is a .308 bullet whereas the 7.62x39 is a .310-.312 bullet
Correct until you get into the Ruger Mini-30 which uses the 7.62x39 but has a .308 bore. But yes, the VAST majority of x39 guns have .310-.312 bores.

Saiga39
March 24, 2008, 07:37 PM
So if I was thinking about picking up a Siaga .308, I wouldn't be able to shoot some of the surplus .308 I've seen available???

That's the first I've heard that.

SaMx
March 24, 2008, 07:48 PM
yes you could. The siaga .308 is chambered for 7.62x51 NATO
you could definitely shoot surplus .308

only 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R have a .311 bullet. The main difference is the length of the case.
think of it like the difference between .30-30 and .30-'06

Saiga39
March 24, 2008, 08:13 PM
"yes you could. The siaga .308 is chambered for 7.62x51 NATO
you could definitely shoot surplus .308

only 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R have a .311 bullet. The main difference is the length of the case.
think of it like the difference between .30-30 and .30-'06"


Oh okay. Yeah I'm aware of that difference.

Thanks for the clarification.

Avenger29
March 24, 2008, 08:17 PM
FBMG makes aftermarket mags that are top quality.

MD_Willington
March 24, 2008, 10:05 PM
So does surefire... and they are ALL AMERICAN parts.. FBMG uses Russian parts in theirs...

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