Florida “Guns-Locked-Up-In-Your-Car-Bill” NOT GOOD IDEA


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ABCDE
March 23, 2008, 08:58 AM
Sorry, but I'm not up-to-date with Florida's current laws.

(1) YOUR Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms - to have firearms in your vehicle for self-defense and other lawful purposes must be protected from anti-gun businesses;

I know they didn't have "vehicles" when they wrote the 2nd Amendment. So how can you have "have firearms in your vehicle for self defense" when it's not even stated in the amendment? Plus, how are you gonna defend yourself when you park and leave your car with your firearms locked in the car!?

(2) YOUR property and privacy rights - against searches of your private vehicle in parking lots must be protected from anti-gun businesses


Tell that to Department of Homeland Security TSA officers (in Hawaii) who search my car everytime I park at the local airport parking lot!

(3) YOUR right to freedom - from coercion, intimidation and termination of employment for exercising constitutional rights by anti-gun employers must be preserved

I'm sorry, but if you're a teacher at my kids elementary school, and packing a gun for "Self Defense", I hope they teminate yor ass.

(4) YOUR right to meaningful self-protection - must be maintained regardless of where you park your car.


Like I said before, how can you protect yourself IF YOUR GUN IS IN YOUR LOCKED CAR AFTER YOU PARK IT.



Get a CCW permit! When the parking attendent asks you if there will be any weapons left in the car, you can tell him/her NO! You'll have the firearms with you since can LEGALLY carry them on you person.

If someone breaks into your car, and steals your firearm, and shoots my family member, I WILL SUE YOU! Criminal liability and Civil liability are totally separtate things.

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Nicky Santoro
March 23, 2008, 10:03 AM
There are no words.

GrendelPrime
March 23, 2008, 10:58 AM
Shamefully, I am not as current on Florida laws as I should be, being a resident, but I will offer my take on it, hopefully other, more well informed High Roaders can correct me.

Firstly, in Florida, having a personal protection weapon in your vehicle follows the same rules as having it in your home (Castle Doctrine (http://www.gunlaws.com/FloridaCastleDoctrine.htm) now covering home, boat and auto), which the "Guns-locked-up-in-your-car" is trying to protect.

Currently, business owners can decide not to allow firearms on their premises, including CCW.
I believe concealed is concealed, and am willing to take the risk of being fired should the situation arise when I need to present, since by that time, the alternative consequences would be far worse.

Business owners want to extend that personal-protection-free zone to include the parking area, essentially leaving the employee no place to store the weapon while following the gun-free restriction in the workplace.
Having no place to store the weapon, and being prohibited from carrying while at work essentially disarms the employee from the moment they leave home to go to work.

The RKBA does not cover vehicles, but as mentioned above, banning weapons from the vehicle infringes on the Right by leaving the individual with no place to store their weapon should they decide to abide by their company policy.

Last time I checked, Airports were on the list of places NOT to take your CCW.
Given the frequency of vehicle break-ins and the airport taking no responsibility even if your car is firebombed, I would either risk not carrying or check it with my baggage.

A Florida CCW permit does not allow the holder to carry in an elementary or secondary school facility.

Get a CCW permit! When the parking attendent asks you if there will be any weapons left in the car, you can tell him/her NO! You'll have the firearms with you since can LEGALLY carry them on you person.

This is exactly how it should be, I wholeheartedly agree, but when the business does not allow firearms on the premises, as an employee, there needs to be someplace to legally store your weapon while complying.

If someone were to break into my car while my weapon was, for some reason, locked inside and not on my person, it would be reported stolen, same as a weapon stolen from someones home.
If used in the commission of a crime, I am, in no way, shape, or form held responsible for the criminal's use of the weapon, any more than I would be if said BG stole the entire car and ran someone down with it.

sacp81170a
March 23, 2008, 11:31 AM
Sorry, but I'm not up-to-date with Florida's current laws.

It appears you are not up to date on a great many things, including the Bill of Rights.


Quote:
(1) YOUR Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms - to have firearms in your vehicle for self-defense and other lawful purposes must be protected from anti-gun businesses;

I know they didn't have "vehicles" when they wrote the 2nd Amendment. So how can you have "have firearms in your vehicle for self defense" when it's not even stated in the amendment? Plus, how are you gonna defend yourself when you park and leave your car with your firearms locked in the car!?

They didn't have computers, telephones, or the internet back then and yet the 1st Amendment is still applied to the new technology. I assume by "vehicles" you mean "automobiles", because they certainly did have "vehicles" when the 2nd Amendment was ratified. They were horse drawn, but they were "vehicles" nonetheless. For purposes of search and seizure by the state, most jurisdictions regard your vehicle as an extension of your home in that, absent Probable Cause (remember the 4th Amendment) and under certain narrowly defined circumstances, your vehicle may not be searched by the government or its agents without a search warrant or your consent. If you give your consent, you may withdraw it at any time during the search and they are required to stop.

While on private property, your vehicle remains your property and under your control. An employer may require you to submit to a strip search each time you come to work as a condition of employment and you are free to agree. You are also free to refuse to submit to a strip search and seek employment elsewhere. You are also free to withdraw your consent to a strip search, terminate the employment agreement and leave. There is no magical "continuing consent" that gives an employer a right to search you or your property. If they do so after your consent is withdrawn, they are subject to criminal and civil liability.

Quote:
(2) YOUR property and privacy rights - against searches of your private vehicle in parking lots must be protected from anti-gun businesses

Tell that to Department of Homeland Security TSA officers (in Hawaii) who search my car everytime I park at the local airport parking lot!

Bad analogy. The airport is not your employer and the secure areas of airports fall under those "narrowly defined circumstances" I was talking about. If you know you're going to one of those areas, it's best to leave your CCW weapon at home until we can get them to provide secure storage for your firearm at the entrance.

Quote:
(3) YOUR right to freedom - from coercion, intimidation and termination of employment for exercising constitutional rights by anti-gun employers must be preserved

I'm sorry, but if you're a teacher at my kids elementary school, and packing a gun for "Self Defense", I hope they teminate yor ass.

Gee, you must not keep up with the results of the Israelis allowing teachers and parents to carry guns at school. Their schools are not regarded as "soft targets" by terrorists because of this. Also, many teachers are military veterans who were qualified to carry and use military arms safely around high-ranking government officials. Some are ex-cops, some are simply civilians with extensive training. Note that in every case where an adult with a gun was present when a shooting spree started in a church or a school it was ended with few casualties (Pearl, MS., the recent church shootings in Colorado Springs, etc.). The highest body counts were racked up when those in immediate danger (teachers and students) had to wait for the police to respond with--GASP!-- their GUNS! (Maybe they should "terminate the cops' asses" for having GUNS at school?)

Quote:
(4) YOUR right to meaningful self-protection - must be maintained regardless of where you park your car.

Like I said before, how can you protect yourself IF YOUR GUN IS IN YOUR LOCKED CAR AFTER YOU PARK IT.

The gun wouldn't need to be locked in the car if your right to defend yourself was honored and you could carry it. By far, the safest place for your loaded firearm is on your person under your control. Why not acknowledge the fact that a citizen who has been trained, undergone fingerprinting and an extensive background check and has paid a sometimes very steep fee is highly unlikely to break the law. On the other hand, criminals will ignore the law and carry anyway.

Get a CCW permit!

You can in all but two states. Several states, like yours, are so restrictive when it comes to issuing permits that only the rich and well-connected can get them. The po' folk and us middle class schlubs don't qualify for self defense. Sounds kinda feudalistic to me. Keep the serfs dependent on the Crown for their protection, eh wot? In the 42 shall issue states (anyone who meets the requirements must be issued a permit since the need for self defense is assumed, much like being innocent until proven guilty is assumed) things are a bit more liberal and democratic.

When the parking attendent asks you if there will be any weapons left in the car, you can tell him/her NO! You'll have the firearms with you since can LEGALLY carry them on you person.

Ah, but there are so many "gun free zones" where you aren't allowed to carry that you are faced with the choice of leaving it in your car or leaving it at home. Suzanna Gratia Hupp was faced with just such a choice at the Luby's Cafeteria in Texas. She left her legally carried pistol in the car as required by Texas law(at the time) and then watched as a lunatic gunned her parents and scores of others down. Had she broken the law and had her gun with her, she might have been able to save her mom and dad's lives. You really are uninformed about concealed carry issues, aren't you?

If someone breaks into your car, and steals your firearm, and shoots my family member, I WILL SUE YOU! Criminal liability and Civil liability are totally separtate things.

Okay, as long as I can "SUE YOU!" If someone steals your car and plows into my family member I get to "SUE YOU!" for negligently allowing your car to be stolen. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, right? Maybe I should be allowed to "SUE YOU!" for allowing someone to pick up a rock out of your yard and bash someone's head in with it. The very thought that you would have a deadly rock lying around for any hoodlum to pick up and use. The poor hoodlum isn't to blame, right? ;)

.cheese.
March 23, 2008, 11:56 AM
I'm sorry, but if you're a teacher at my kids elementary school, and packing a gun for "Self Defense", I hope they teminate yor ass.

Ahh yes.... keeping the school a "gun free zone".

I mean... seriously, it's worked exceptionally well up until now, why mess with a good thing? Right?...... Right?...... :rolleyes:

All these "gun guys" will try to tell you that guns are needed in schools by the faculty and whatnot - but honestly, gun free zones work.

For example, on February 29, 2000, when 6 year old Dedrick Owens found his uncle's .32 caliber handgun and went to his elementary school only to shoot and kill one of his classmates. The problem here was that Owens DIDN'T KNOW that it was a gun free zone because some idiot hadn't made the sign large enough on the school. Had the sign been proper regulation size, Owens surely would have seen it, gone back home, and returned the firearm where he found it, gone back to school, and aced all of his tests that day. I do not believe this... I KNOW IT!

Or how about this.... in 1989 some alcoholic mashugana schmuck named Patrick Purdy, a local Stockton, California resident took a Type 56 rifle into an elementary school - killed 6 and injured 30 others. We all know that had a teacher been properly armed and trained, the teacher would not have been able to put a stop to the massacre. Instead, the teacher would likely mistake one of the elementary school students for an older drunk man wielding a gun, and shoot one of them instead of ending the threat. Again, this is not speculation. It's fact.

So, with that said, I totally agree with you. In this day and age where current gun control schemes work, why would we even consider rocking the boat and arming teachers?

It's way too logical, and I hate logic.

over50
March 23, 2008, 12:42 PM
"Get a CCW permit! When the parking attendent asks you if there will be any weapons left in the car, you can tell him/her NO! You'll have the firearms with you since can LEGALLY carry them on you person."


I do have a cwfl, but my employer forbids firearms on his property while at work. I drive through some not so good neighborhoods to get to and from work, and I do lock up my ccw in the parking lot, but if the boss finds out do you think I should be fired????? I have done all I can do to remain legal, and it is not "illegal":fire: to have a gun in my car in Florida.

xjchief
March 23, 2008, 04:32 PM
Trolling or not this is the mentality of the folks living in Hawaii. I spent the first 21 years of my life there...

Hawaii has a law for everything. The people there rely on the government for everything. In short, it makes California look like a beacon of freedom.

I'm moving back there and have real deep reservations about raising my children in an environment where individual rights and freedom take a back seat to the whims of local government.

Hawaii is not Florida so why don't you concern yourself with over-regulating yourself and leave the rest of us alone. Continue to bury your head in the sand and count on Uncle Fasi. :neener:

Robert Hairless
March 24, 2008, 02:33 AM
I know they didn't have "vehicles" when they wrote the 2nd Amendment. So how can you have "have firearms in your vehicle for self defense" when it's not even stated in the amendment?

I never thought of that. Your knowledge of American history has just helped me understand some things that have had me puzzled for a long time.

For example it often bothered me that New Jersey was so backward in terms of individual rights, especially in the right to keep and bear arms--that Second Amendment stuff. Thanks to you, though, I realize that the explanation is simple: New Jersey must still be a British colony because George Washington and his army had no means of transportation to Trenton, so they never crossed the Delaware River.

That's probably also the reason why the District of Columbia is ruled by idiots who have been elected by dimwits. (I use the words "idiots" and "dimwits" in their purely political sense without any implication that District residents are intellectually challenged because they choose their mayor and city administration unwisely.) See, General Washington and his troops couldn't get anywhere because they had no vehicles. There were no wagons, coaches, sleds, or horses. All they had was one little old guy named "Myron" to tote things around for the whole, entire army. So when the redcoats fired on citizens in Massachusetts, Myron said "Hey, I don't want those guys shooting at me," quit them cold, and walked across the water to Hawaii where he taught American History in the schools there. We lost the Revolutionary War, all the British colonies except for New Jersey, New York, and Illinois were sold to King Kamehameha I for a bunch of bananas, the old word for "gun" in Hawaiian is "ana," and so Hawaii decided to ban ana.

Your knowledge and understanding probably came from the curriculum developed by Myron, as did mine before I read another book. :)

Seriously, though, because Hawaii was not a state when the Bill of Rights was adopted it does not apply to residents of Hawaii.

hso
March 24, 2008, 11:46 AM
Closed as OT due to OP's pointless rant.

Please read the subforum sticky before posting.

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