.223 REm versus 22-250


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Auburn1992
March 23, 2008, 05:20 PM
How fast will each burn out the barrel?

What are the velocities of each?

Accuracy & Range?

And which would be better when shooting 300+ yards?

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Ridgerunner665
March 23, 2008, 05:50 PM
22-250 is better past 300 yards, but it will also burn out barrels faster. 22-250 is faster than 223 by about 200 - 400 fps. Both can be exceptionally accurate.

rangerruck
March 23, 2008, 05:51 PM
depends on how fast you fire between rounds.
the 22.250 is generally 300 to 400 fps faster than the 223.
it is way more expensive.
the 22.250 is way flatter, once you start passing 300 yds.

bensdad
March 23, 2008, 05:54 PM
I've got one .22-250 and two .223s.

Barrel burn-out? Some say as few as 1200 rounds with the .22-250. I don't know. Mine's about half-way there and still shoots fine. I thinks it's a result of chamber preasure, not muzzle velocity, but I could be wrong. Regardless, the .223 rifling should last longer.

Accuracy? It doesn't matter. My .223s are both a little more accurate than my .22-250. Others have more accurate .22-250s. The .22-250 shoots faster and flatter. That's different than "more accurate."

Past 300 yds? Enough practice with either will render this question meaningless. I suppose the .22-250 shoots a little flatter and hits a little harder. Learn the right holdover and you're good-to-go, regardless of which you choose. I've seen folks who keep a little chart taped directly to their gun that shows the holdover at various distances with their round of choice.

BackCountry
March 23, 2008, 06:26 PM
I put 3,000 - 4,000 rounds through my .223 a year and haven't burned out a barrel yet. Still producing 1 MOA groups. Either cartridge makes for a good varmint/predator control round. If you are not loading your own, the .223 is substantially cheaper. While the .22-250 is a faster round, I don't typically shoot coyotes or prairie dogs past 400 yards.

skinewmexico
March 23, 2008, 07:00 PM
Admit it..........who among us hasn't dreamed of actually burning out a barrel? How cool would it be to shoot that much?

Auburn1992
March 23, 2008, 10:31 PM
Where would I be able to find a replacement barrel?

Stinger
March 23, 2008, 11:15 PM
Replacement barrels are readily available. You could google it, or check with any of the shooting suppliers like brownells, midway, etc. Or you could check with your local gunsmith.

Depending on what you are doing, there isn't a hill-o-beans worth of difference between the two cartridges. They are both plenty accurate, plenty flat, and plenty effective. There are very few instances where 99.9% of shooters would need one over the other.

My advice is to buy whichever is the best deal, or whichever suits your fancy the most. In a year or two, buy the other. :)

LongRangeInternational
March 23, 2008, 11:19 PM
The 22-250 will take less guess work and make you look good. On prairie dog shoots in Wyoming, I have seen time and time again out of state shooters learn there is a world of difference between the two calibers in practical application.

MachIVshooter
March 23, 2008, 11:57 PM
The 22-250 will take less guess work and make you look good. On prairie dog shoots in Wyoming, I have seen time and time again out of state shooters learn there is a world of difference between the two calibers in practical application.

And then enter the .220 Swift :D

.223 is good to ~350 yards
.22-250, ~550 yards
.220 swift ~700 yards

Beyond that, you're talking wildcats like the 6.5mm-06 AI to score hits consistently. I've drilled praire rats as far as 780 yards with my .220, but it was about 6 rounds fired per hit at such extreme ranges.

LongRangeInternational
March 24, 2008, 12:00 AM
I consider the .220 about 50-maybe 75 yards better than the 22-250 and definitely not good past 500 yards on a prairie rat. What bullet weight were you using, MachIV?

MachIVshooter
March 24, 2008, 12:09 AM
55 gr. Moly-Coated V-max's over 44 grains of H414 for 3950 FPS.

Rifle is a Ruger M77 varmint with a Nikon Monarch 6.5-20x. Average 5-shot 200 yard group is 1.56" (I got lucky with this rifle:D)

The kills aren't very spectacular beyond 500, but it does put them down.

My hit ratio is nearly 100% inside of 250 yards, about 40% at 500 and around 15% at the maximum ranges. Of course, a very hot or windy day adversely affects those numbers.

LongRangeInternational
March 24, 2008, 12:12 AM
I'm pretty deadly on p-dogs inside of 350 yards using a high end Leupold 6-5-20x varmint reticle but after that, I have to add luck into the mix.

We've got 50K acres, looking forward to this spring's crop of prairie rats.

MachIVshooter
March 24, 2008, 12:31 AM
I'm pretty deadly on p-dogs inside of 350 yards using a high end Leupold 6-5-20x varmint reticle but after that, I have to add luck into the mix

I found the UFCH reticle on the Nikon to be finer than the Leupold. Normally, I do go for the gold ring.

If I'm in an area where all shots will be 300 yards or less, I usually use my 700 LVSF .17 Rem. The super light recoil makes it possible to see everything through the Weaver 4-16x 42mm UFCH scope. But those little 20 and 25 grain bullets run out of steam beyond 300, and the explosive effect pretty much disappears at 200 yards, even with a MV of 4,245 FPS.

We've got 50K acres, looking forward to this spring's crop of prairie rats.

Lucky. We've got about 4 places not too far away, but most are only a couple hundred acres. We rotate, with 3 or 4 shooters usually killing about 60-80 rats in a day. since we go about every other week, that gives the little buggers 6 weeks to recouperate.

We get lots of cottontails, too. I've found that a well placed neck shot with the .17 gives an almost surgical decapitation reliably.:evil:

Wildfire
March 24, 2008, 12:43 AM
Hey there:
I use the .223 in a Rem. 700 PSS and a 700 VS. These are both extremely accutate rifles . They have had thousands of rounds put down there tubes and still both are clover leaf guns at 100. Scopes are made with adjustments and that is what they are there for. So Range is not an issue. If you are asking about which one is flatter the 22-250 is. And many are very accurate.
But if just accuarcy is the question then the .223 wins. Less recoil and bang.
So they are easier to shoot accurately.
I too shoot P-dogs and have some very long range kills with the .223. 726 yards. 723 yards (2). and so on. With no wind and some range time I can usually make good hits at 500 most of the time. These are heavy rifles and extremely light triggers. The scopes repeat themselves very well. You must keep in mind that the rounds are all hand loaded and one at a time.
They fit the chambers exact. I am an accuracy nut. This is not to say that there are not very accurate 22-250s out there. There are. If you do not want to make scope adjustments the 22-250 is a better round at longer ranges. If you do not mind turning the turrets, the .223 can be just as good even at extended ranges. The 22-250 has more power. Proper care of that barrel and you should not have a burnout issue. Fast shooting and barrel heat will shorten the barrel life.

Auburn1992
March 24, 2008, 01:34 AM
I've been partial to the .223 as of now due to ammunition costs and because I don't want to burn out the barrel of a rifle shooting those .22-250 rounds. Anyhow, talking about how many acres we have, I am moving to a place with 12 acres! There are no going to be many prairie dogs, due to the fact it is in Tennessee, but we have spotted yote markings. To the gun, I've been thinking of a Remington XR-100 Rangemaster or a Savage 12 BVSS. It's really tearing me up which one to get!

Wildfire
March 24, 2008, 01:52 AM
Hey there:
I'm a Remignton shooter . You will never be sorry.
I have try'd the new Accu trigger and it is OK but , still not a Remington.
Some of the new Savage rifles are accurate. But still not a Remington.:)

Auburn1992
March 24, 2008, 01:57 AM
Ha Wildfire I like your thinking

skinewmexico
March 24, 2008, 02:02 AM
2 of the top 3, and 3 of the top 5 rifles at the F Class F/TR Nationals were factory Savages. And still not a Remington. If you get a Savage, you can shoot the barrel out, and replace it in your garage in 20-30 minutes. A pre-fit replacement in about any caliber will run you $275 - $350 from Shilen, Pac-nor, McGowen, Lothar Walther, or ER Shaw.

Auburn1992
March 24, 2008, 02:53 AM
The Savage F/TR is just too expensive for me, that's why I am looking for mainly cheaper varmint guns

Wildfire
March 24, 2008, 03:31 AM
Hey there:
I agree with you that the Savage has been taking the bench shoots "lately".
But this was not the case in the past. When a Savage took a shoot it was rare. Now that Savage has caught up and started paying attention they are finally making a gun that can compete. It's been a long time coming. And Remingtons or some custom made were the rule for way too many years.
As I stated, The new Triggers helped, and they have better barrels now. But that was not the case in the past. We could debate that all day but ,,,,,
I think you know what I am saying. Put a Remington in their hands and they will still win those shoots. They did not just buy a Savage and start winning.
In the past to get a Savage to win a shoot took major work and by very skilled hands. It's about time they can compete. I too have seen some pretty good shooting Savage rifles, But , I'll keep my Remingtons and do just fine.

stubbicatt
March 24, 2008, 08:53 AM
You could consider the 204 Ruger which is supposed to duplicate the 22-250 without the barrel burn out.

Auburn1992
March 24, 2008, 01:13 PM
What's the barrel life of a .204 compared to 22-250 and to a .223? And my main concern is ammo prices of the .204 Ruger as compared to a .223. I could by some cheap some to just plink around with and then some expensive to target shoot with the .223. Anyone ever felt the trigger on a Remington XR-100? It's a 40-xb trigger. I've never felt it and would like some input please.

aka108
March 24, 2008, 02:11 PM
If you get into reloading the cost differences between 204, 223 and 22-250 a very slight.

Auburn1992
March 24, 2008, 02:28 PM
I don't think I'll be getting into reloading any time soon.

Auburn1992
March 24, 2008, 05:36 PM
Are there any aftermarket triggers that the Savage 12 BVSS will accept?

skinewmexico
March 24, 2008, 07:01 PM
Timney, Rifle Basix, SSS, maybe more.

Wildfire
March 25, 2008, 02:28 AM
Hey there:
That Remington trigger is 100% tuneable.
If you know what you are doing you set it extremely light. Mine are .
I used a Savage trigger (Accu-Trigger) and Like I said before they are ok, But they are really nothing to write home about. They feel wierd. And that can be distracting.
When tuning a Rem. Trigger you must be carefull and test it many times.
Make sure she is right. You can go so light that they will just go off when closing the bolt. But when they ar eright they are very light and crisp.

LongRangeInternational
March 25, 2008, 11:18 AM
When tuning it, make sure to bounce it on the buttpad while on safe a few times to simulate drop testing.

Auburn1992
March 25, 2008, 11:36 AM
I'll definetly be sure to do that. Are there any special tools needed to adjust the trigger?

TheGrimReaper
March 25, 2008, 11:44 AM
I am more of a .223 Rem guy myself.

Wildfire
March 27, 2008, 11:27 AM
Hey there:
I should have said that too. The drop test is a must on tuning any trigger.
Savage drop test their gun or trigger from 20 feet up. Probably didn't help the gun much but they proved that the trigger would not go off. This is a little extreme, but did prove their point. I guess I would expect my gun to let the trigger go if dopped from 20 feet with the safety off.
Any way that was good advice. I drop test all triggers by thumping them on a board or hard rubber.
The Remington trigger is made of heavy metal and at a certian point I can set it off when they are set very light.
Some after market triggers have a light weight stiff wire and are made that way to reduce trigger weight. The pull weight can then be very light , as low as 8 oz. That takes some getting used to. Most of mine are in the 20 to 26 oz, braket and are good for Varmint hunting and target. Do not missunder stand me on the Savage, They make a decent gun and now a decent trigger.
I just happen to be a Remington shooter and will remain that way.

LongRangeInternational
March 27, 2008, 11:57 AM
The Winchester trigger one of the easiest non-Savage triggers I've ever messed with. Turn a nut, test, set in place with nail polish.

cpttango30
March 27, 2008, 12:48 PM
How fast will each burn out the barrel?
This depends alot on how you shoot. If you shoot max loads and shoot untill the barrel is too hot to touch then you are going to burn out the barrel faster. My dad has a 22-250 that has seen atleast 4000 rounds and still shoot sub 1/2" 5 shot 100 yard groups.

What are the velocities of each? 22-250 is 300 to 400 fps faster than 223

Accuracy & Range? both are very accurate cartridges and the 22-250 will get you out a tad futher than the 223 due to the speed.

And which would be better when shooting 300+ yards?

243 would be beter at 300+ yards. But the 22-250 is king of the varmint world.

skinewmexico
March 27, 2008, 01:06 PM
I still maintain that we should all be so lucky as to shoot out a barrel.

Ridgerunner665
March 27, 2008, 01:38 PM
Barrels can be shot out...I have shot out many of them...220 swift, 22-250, 7mm Rem Mag, 243 Win., 25-06 Rem...to name a few.

Essex County
March 27, 2008, 02:20 PM
The only barrell I've ever shot out was an old Mauser in .308. I also believe the barrel was of questionable heritage. Just plain enjoy the .22-250. Essex

Tim Galyean
March 27, 2008, 06:21 PM
There is nothing like watching the vapor trail of a 22-250 out to 400yds and seeing a sage rat get dissinigrated! No matter how many times you do it, it just never gets old!

There are things that you can do when your barrel starts loosing accuracy. Adjusting your load would be the first.

tnieto2004
March 27, 2008, 06:50 PM
I would go for the .223 .. I enjoy shooting so often ..and you will save quite a bit by going with the .223

Geno
March 27, 2008, 07:01 PM
I have owned Remington 700Vs in .223 Rem, .22-250 Rem and .224 Rem (6mm Rem). All three were awesome shooters even with their (what I consider limited) 24" barrels.

At the last gun show, I discovered the new Remington SPS Varmint rifles were priced at a mere $495.00, and have a $30.00 rebate offer from Remington! Hello!! So, here we go again...I had to revisit my old ballistic documentation to make the decision all over again...which round?

I bought the .223. The .223 shoots plenty flat, especially with BTBT projectiles in the 40 to 45 grain range. To boot, the .223 is down-right stingy with powder consumption. If you reload, you can have a tremendous day of shooting for a little bit of nothing. Best of all, since I have a 13-year-old daughter who prefers to avoid recoil, the .223 really fits the bill.

In closing, with the modern 700 varmint rifles' 26" barrel, I anticipate even better performance. Just buy whichever one you personally perfer, and then start doing the math:

1POA + 1POI = 1DOA Varmint. :evil:

skinewmexico
March 27, 2008, 07:40 PM
My 13 year old daughter shoots up all my 223 too......ain't it great?

Geno
March 27, 2008, 07:55 PM
Thank goodness for inexpensive reloads. Morgan is excited to try out the new varmint package. After that, I can say bye-bye to my stock of .223. :( But I'll keep her interested in, and actively shooting. ;)

CZ223
March 27, 2008, 09:28 PM
If you are not reloading. Despite recent increases, the 223 is still cheap by comparison. I have 5 Savage model 12BVSS's and 2 model 12 VLP's in 204 Ruger(2), 223(2), 22-250(1), 220 Swift and one in 25-06. The 2 204's, one of the 223s, the 22-250 and the 220Swift are all sub 1/2MOA shooters. I have done very little testing with the new 223 and the 25-06 but it looks as though they will both shoot 1/2MOA or better as well. You will be hard pressed to find a Remington that will shoot that well out of the box. I love the Accu-trigger. I have owned Several Remingtons, a couple of Winchesters and a boat load of Rugers. The Savages are the best shooters out of the box by far. Forget the stuff about BR shooting. If a serious BR shooter is shooting a Remington these days he is using the action only, and he has dumped a lot of money into that.

Reasons to buy the Savage:

Accuracy- If you don't believe me just search the various websites like this one. There have probably been more magazine articles written in magazines about Savages inherent out of the box accuracy than you can shake a stick at.

Accu-trigger- It might take a little getting used to, but has got to be the best factory trigger going.

Barrels- If you should shoot one out, you could get a factory take-off for about $150. You can buy a barrel nut wrench for $25 and for about $10 make a barrel or action vice (I made both). You can then change barrels in less than 30 minutes. Call a gunsmith and ask what the going rate is to change a barrel on a Remington.

Geno
March 27, 2008, 09:45 PM
My Rem 700V in 6mm Rem grouped consistent 3/8" @ 300 yards with 95 Gn Nosler handloads. :)

Re: if you can shoot-out a barrel, technically, but it would be more by abuse/neglect. If I were ever to shoot the barrel to its ruination, I would opt for a Douglas premium air gauged, with less than .00001 variance end to end.

My uncle had his Rem 700V re-barreled as such in .22-250 Rem. It consistently grouped single-hole out to 300 yards. :what:

Edit to add: The Remington 700s have a new trigger system. They are about 46% lighter in the factory setting than what the previous trigger systems were set. The new trigger is advertised as having "zero creep". They can be set to a lighter setting yet if you like.

Doc2005

Tarvis
March 27, 2008, 11:49 PM
FWIW, I heard the new triggers are garbage on the 700's.

I wouldn't worry about burning a barrel. If you shot 5k rounds or more a year, you'd still have a couple years worth of barrel. 220 swift was known for being a barrel burner, but I think that may have changed with modern metalurgy. The 22-250 bridges the gap between 220 swift and 223 rem as far as muzzle velocity goes, but is much more diverse as it can handle much heavier bullets suitable for taking deer-sized game. It does burn more powder which can be a downside for shooters that reload and shoot a serious ammount of ammo.

If you are trying to go as cheap as possible 223 is the way to go, wether you're reloading or restricted to buying loaded ammo. Once fired brass can be found for $65 per 1000 for 223 while 22-250 costs around $25-$35 or there abouts for 100 pieces of new winchester brass.

After rereading original post:
If you want to shoot past 300 yards, 22-250. Don't worry about burning the barrel. Accuracy depends on the ammo, the rifle, and the man behind it; the latter being the most prominent issue. Velocity depends on the barrel length and the bullet. As far as triggers are concerned, I have a savage 12LRPV which has the target accu-trigger; adjustable down to 1.5 lbs. Some may not like the safety in the middle of the trigger, but i dont mind it. Adjust it down if you like, but I would prolly stick with it if I were you until you were certain the 2.5 lb lowest setting on the trigger was keeping you from shooting tighter groups.

All in all, buy a rifle and start shooting it. If it doesn't work for you, put it in the safe and buy another, funds permitting ;).

Auburn1992
March 28, 2008, 12:24 AM
What are 40-xb triggers like? This is what is on the Remington Xr-100 Rangemaster.

Wildfire
March 28, 2008, 05:16 AM
Hey there:
I agree with Doc. Never have I burned out a barrel and my rifles have been on many P-dog hunts. My Remingtons shoot small clover leafs at 100 meters and came that way. I do not use factory ammo, never have.
I only get Handloader, Rilfe , and the NRA magazines so I have not stumbled on these articles about how much more accurate the New Savage rifles are compared to the Remingtons. I keep seeing the 1/2 min, of angle talk.
If that was all the better my Remingtons would shoot I'd get rid of them.
I never put down the Savage. Just simply stated that I would not trade any of my Remingtons for "any" Savage. I guess once you have a good thing why change.

Geno
March 28, 2008, 12:36 PM
The difference of price also rang in my ears:

Rem SPS 700V = $495 to $515
Savage = $800 to $850

There are the funds for a nice scope. Too, the Savage that I have seen that is .25 MOA accurate is the single-shot. For me, I actually prefer a single-shot, but many folks like a repeater.

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