Want a russian mosin with sub-moa accuracy?


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esmith
March 23, 2008, 10:02 PM
Okay well, maybe not sub-moa, but better than what it probably is right now. My friend sent me this about a month ago about 'corking' your mosin nagant rifle to increase its accuracy.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu63.htm

Sort of like 'bedding' it, except its not the reciever being bedded. Anyway apparently it helped with my friends rifle, said he got 3.5 inch groups at a 100 yards, and since him and I aren't spectacular shots, thats pretty good. Thought i would give it a try with my m-44, yet i don't have any cork. I was thinking i could use some leather stuff i found in my basement, what do you think?

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bdfinst
March 23, 2008, 10:16 PM
The brits use strips of innertube to try and settle down their Enfields

LongRangeInternational
March 23, 2008, 10:21 PM
I think you need to buy a couple of bottles of wine and drink them, esmith :D

esmith
March 23, 2008, 10:43 PM
I think you need to buy a couple of bottles of wine and drink them, esmith


Underage. Unfortunatley.

I think i might try this with different materials and see what works best.

Mike 56
March 23, 2008, 10:46 PM
I have used rubber o-rings and roofing felt both worked well. The intertube also sounds like a good idea.

Mike

kcmarine
March 23, 2008, 11:11 PM
Hm... has anyone ever tried to machine a Mosin action and barrel that IS incredibly accurate?

vzenmn
March 23, 2008, 11:11 PM
Quote:
I think you need to buy a couple of bottles of wine and drink them, esmith

Underage. Unfortunatley.

I think i might try this with different materials and see what works best.

Send me the money. I'll drink the wine and send you the corks.:)

Some gaskets are made from cork aren't they?
You can also try business cards, a piece of a styrofoam cup, or a piece of an old mousepad.

Vaarok
March 23, 2008, 11:15 PM
Properly bedded, some crappy-looking Soviet Mosins assuredly can and do shoot sub-MOA with handloads. I remember the original old-forum threads on accuratizing on Surplusrifle, and a couple good shooting rifles got settled to the point they were putting out .75 inch groups with a pseudo D-166 loading.

woad_yurt
March 23, 2008, 11:58 PM
How thick is the cork supposed to be? Vzenmn said gaskets. You can go to any auto parts store and get 12" square sheets of cork for a few bucks. They come in different thicknesses. I think you'd probably need the thinnest. Also, a thick bead of slightly cured silicone from Home Depot would squish down and work just fine. Let it sit until it starts to firm just a bit and then reassemble the gun.

rangerruck
March 24, 2008, 01:07 AM
the best thing to use is those little hard rubber pad thingies, you put inside your door cabinets, so they don't slam closed. You can find them at Home Despot.
the prob with most that other stuff , is they will expand and contract with heat, or absorb moisture. The cabinet pad thingies won't. Also sometimes your rifle may want a little pressure pad up front, and sometimes it won't.
Today, while comparing two mach 2 rifles, a marlin 917lss, and a Savage MkII hb, I shot three 5 round groups, with three foulers between each new group, and each new ammo. Each group was a diff ammo; eley, remmy, and CCI. The first row of groups were all shot with both rifles, with the pressure pad installed, right up front, between the bbl and the forestock. Today in Houston was straight on 25 mph winds, with about 30 second blow cycles.
The temps were also dropping fast, somewhere in the low 60 's I would guess.
Both rifles shot respectable groups, under 1 inch at 50 yds.
Then I removed the pressure pad up front on both rifles and reshot.
The marlin groups shrunk by half , easy, while the savage went mostly unchanged, but I will really need to retest it.
The problem is here, that during hotter months , i tried this test once before on the Marlin, and during summer , it deff like a pad upfront.
I am assuming that the harmonics open up more due to the heat of summer, even though this is a heavy bbl, that is one inch all the way down the tube.
To that end , I allways bring those little pads with me, anywhere I go
shooting!!! sounds weird , but I do.

rust collector
March 24, 2008, 01:51 AM
Some of the old smallbore position rifles in our range locker had tuning screws in the forend to apply pressure to the barrel at about 45 degrees from vertical on each side. The problem with a pad of cork, rubber or other material is that tension will change as the humidity and temperature move the wood around.

Still, don't be afraid to try temporary materials and see what it likes. I have had good luck putting a bit of pressure on a thin 223 barrel on a Ruger ultralight, while it hasn't seemed to matter on most of my other bolt guns. I'm afraid your ammunition and bayonet may have more effect on groups than forend pressure, but there really isn't a downside to experimenting with a pressure pad.

Ash
March 24, 2008, 08:43 AM
Hm... has anyone ever tried to machine a Mosin action and barrel that IS incredibly accurate.

Well, the Finns didn't machine the action, but they did provide barrels. I don't refer only to the wartime rifles, but the TAK-85, the Finnish sniper rifle posted here from time to time.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/7.62_TKIV_85.jpeg

KI.W.
March 24, 2008, 08:58 AM
You need only 28-30 Finnish-designet Mosin Nagant and make own loads. 1/2 MOA is then OK.

Franco2shoot
March 24, 2008, 01:18 PM
It does work. However....
Here's what I tried. I took a square cleaning patch, soaked it in Hoppes #9 oil and then took this piece and right where the front band is located wrapped the barrel such that the opposing corners of the patch just touch. Sliding the bands back in place the barrel became snug and wouldn't move around. Prior to inserting the patch you could wiggle the barrel almost a sixteenth in every direction. Now it won't budge.

OK now that's the technique, here's the results.

Slam in 5 with the stripper clip and don't even bother to see where they go. This cuz I can tell you from my testing they will all be low. However, after the 5th round, I paused a bit felt the barrel, and it was warm to the touch. I put 3 new Hungarian heavy ball from my battle pack (440 rounds). Now I took my time and with a fore rest, steady concentration, breath control, squeezed off a shot that ticked the orange dot. The next two were within an inch of the first shot, all at 100 yards.

I put another 40 rounds through the 91/30, and all were in the 10 ring and within 1-1.5 inch moa it just had to reach operating temp. I believe the heat expanded the oil soaked patch and tighened down on the barrel. Now I'm conflicted. Should I stay with what I know works or experiment with cork?


KKKKFL

Avenger29
March 24, 2008, 01:27 PM
Should I stay with what I know works or experiment with cork?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it, of course...

Cosmoline
March 24, 2008, 01:45 PM
has anyone ever tried to machine a Mosin action and barrel that IS incredibly accurate?

Yes, the Finns did it. Tikka and SAKO got their start attaching upgraded barrels to Mosin receivers and shimming them into stocks for maximum accuracy.

Bartkowski
March 24, 2008, 05:48 PM
I am the one who tried it. I didn't use cork because I didn't have any thin enough, but instead insulation from electrical wires. I had some that was recently striped and was flat not round so I used that. I figure it will stand up to some heat too.

The gun was putting two shots just barely touching and then one about 3" away from those two at 100 yards. At 50 yards it would do the same except the last one would always be directly above the first two about 2.5" away. (maybe the barrel heating up?)

Anyway, it turned my 6" patterns at to 2.75-3" groups at 100yards. If you care it is just a plain 91/30 with the only "upgrade" being the wire insulation shooting surplus that it likes pretty well.

rangerruck
March 24, 2008, 07:22 PM
you are using something that is goind to absorb water, touching your bbl.

alemonkey
March 24, 2008, 08:51 PM
The cork trick worked well on my T53. It's still probably a 3-4 MOA rifle at best, but that's a lot better than before.

Cosmoline
March 24, 2008, 08:53 PM
you are using something that is goind to absorb water, touching your bbl.

It's a Mosin. But you could always use rubber gasket. Or better yet do what the Finns did and use a series of metal shims under the receiver to raise and lower the barrel in relation to the stock. You can "tune" your rifle this way to find it's own "harmonic convergence." I've been doing it with mine

SlamFire1
March 24, 2008, 09:41 PM
Hm... has anyone ever tried to machine a Mosin action and barrel that IS incredibly accurate?

I think " C.E Harris" had an article in the American Rifleman about Nagants. This was 80's or 90's. He also had a Mosin Nagant barreled with a custom barrel. I forget how well it shot, but I am certain it would have shot as well as any properly chambered and loaded 30 caliber cartridge.

As for getting consistent 1 MOA from a Russian service rifle barrel, dream on... Not that it could not happen, there were millions of Mosin Nagants produced, just by the law of averages, there has to be at least one that shot sub MOA.

Bedding the action of a service rifle will often improve the accuracy. It does not hurt as it stiffens the system and helps provide consistent vibration patterns in the system. Then the barrel and the bullets limit your accuracy.

Best accuracy requires good bedding, good barrels, and good bullets.

Ash
March 25, 2008, 08:03 AM
Here is a photo of the TAK-85.

Of course, the 28/30 is a wonderfully accurate Mosin - as are the 27's, 28's, and 39's.

Ash

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