Home defense long gun recommendation needed


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Zeede
March 24, 2008, 02:25 PM
Hey folks, Cameron here, hailing from the not-so-free state of California.

We recently thought we had a home intruder at my townhouse, and while it was fortunate that there wasn't an intruder, it did highlight some problems.

I mostly shoot clays, so I have shotguns with 30" barrels. That didn't work at all on my stairwell, there was just physically no way to "slice the pie". I do have a pistol in .22, but I'm not a good shot with pistols, so I've been trying to find something with a short overall length that I can use for home defense.

The Kel-Tec Sub 2000 is not legal in California, neither is the Beretta CX4 Storm. Both are pistol caliber carbines, which is what I'm looking for, and both are just under 30" overall length, which is important for my stairwell. Too bad my stupid state has outlawed both of these guns.

Right now the only thing I can think of is get a pump shotgun and put a Knoxx stock on it. As long as the whole thing is 27" long when collapsed, it's still legal, but I would like to know what my other options are.

Cameron

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Myles
March 24, 2008, 02:55 PM
Have you looked at the Marlin Camp Carbines? Pistol caliber, uses pistol mags, short and handy. 35" overall length. Available in 9mm or .45, used and fairly inexpensive.

Even a solid lever-action should be short enough to fit the bill. Marlin guide gun: 37", Winchester 94: 36"

You could pick up an 18.5" barrel for one of your shotguns - you're already familiar with them.

roscoe
March 24, 2008, 03:05 PM
Kel Tec SU16 with 16" barrel. They even have a "CA" model. Very compact, although not pistol-caliber.

There is also the 16" lever gun option.

strangelittleman
March 24, 2008, 03:08 PM
Also try to find a Ruger PC4 or PC9, or a Marlin leveraction in .357 or .44.

esq_stu
March 24, 2008, 03:09 PM
Norinco SKS Carbine has a 16 inch barrel. Get one with a 10-rd fixed mag. (Some take AK47 mags - you don't want that one for your state). Very reliable. Reliable, sturdy, accurate enough for home defense. Lots of accessories available. And best of all, reasonably priced. You may be able to put a telescoping stock on on (like an M4) to make it even more maneuverable indoors. I've got one (and another full size one) and am shopping for another.

NOTCH55
March 24, 2008, 03:12 PM
try mossberg 500 with 18 barrel

Marlin 45 carbine
March 24, 2008, 03:57 PM
another vote for short-barreled pistol caliber carbine. even a lever or maybe a pump.

Andrewsky
March 24, 2008, 04:17 PM
Mini 14 for sure.

You want 5.56x45.

Get some 10 round magazines and mount a Streamlight TLR-1 on it.

Spyvie
March 24, 2008, 04:38 PM
You want 5.56x45.

He lives in a townhouse... how many of his neighbors units would a 5.56 round go through if he missed the bad guy???

Even the cops wouldn't use a rifle caliber in that enviorment.

I live in a condo right now, I keep a PPK .380 and a 20" Mossberg loaded. My Mini 14 stays in the safe...

Cosmoline
March 24, 2008, 04:47 PM
A Marlin 1894 levergun or good '92 clone in .44 Mag or .357 would be excellent, provided you load with the proper ammunition. I'm also a big fan of a .30-30 levergun, either Marlin or Winchester.

Any of these will give you enough velocity to ensure expansion and reduce overpenetration. Typical .30-30 hunting rounds happen to be just about ideal for two legged problems. Penetration is not excessive, expansion is very reliable and stopping power on a human about as reliable as anything.

Andrewsky
March 24, 2008, 04:52 PM
He lives in a townhouse... how many of his neighbors units would a 5.56 round go through if he missed the bad guy???

Even the cops wouldn't use a rifle caliber in that enviorment.

I live in a condo right now, I keep a PPK .380 and a 20" Mossberg loaded. My Mini 14 stays in the safe...

:scrutiny:

So why have SWAT teams across the country switched from 9mm carbines and SMGs to 5.56x45 carbines?

It's because 5.56x45 has WAY more potential to stop a bad guy and relatively low potential to go through a bad guy and hurt someone else. Your Mossberg with buckshot will go through more layers of drywall than a 5.56x45. Would you rather shoot someone once with your Mini 14 or 6 times with your PPK?

Why does it matter if he's in a townhouse versus a neighborhood with single family homes that are 25 feet apart? Do bullets only fly in drywall, not air?

Spyvie
March 24, 2008, 04:55 PM
I don't know, I still think a rifle round is a bad idea. And I keep my HD mossy loaded with 2 3/4” lead BB shot.

Andrewsky
March 24, 2008, 04:59 PM
The problem with the BBs is that you have hardly any penetration at all. It's not an effective manstopper. People are shot with shotguns all the time when bird hunting and they don't die.

I know a guy who shot his dog and his wife one year, and then shot his son in the chest with a 12 gauge shotgun from 10 yards away (by accident) and they are all still alive.

It's a good choice if your only concern is overpenetration though.

BlackJackal
March 24, 2008, 05:03 PM
Id say a mossberg 500 18" barrel and knoxx stock

lvcat2004
March 24, 2008, 05:06 PM
http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/fn/FNH_CB_PS90.jpg

Is this legal in CA?? 5.7x28 is a pistol round...sort of....

kc 516
March 24, 2008, 05:08 PM
Mossberg, if I had just one weapon, it would be my Mossberg w/18" barrel..

skinewmexico
March 24, 2008, 06:00 PM
Ok, I'll say it........Hi Point!

Clipper
March 24, 2008, 06:07 PM
Another vote for a Hi-Point carbine, with the ATI stock, and if you're so inclined, they make an accessory laser that fits into a recess in the stock. The whole rig with laser should run less than $300.00.

Squidward
March 24, 2008, 06:10 PM
The obvious and less expensive answer is a shorter barrel and/or stock for a shotgun you own; but, since you asked...

Ruger PC9
Lever action in .357 or .44
Ruger .44 carbine
M1 carbine

paintballdude902
March 24, 2008, 06:17 PM
i vote for a nice pump shotty with an 18inch barrel

or heck my preference would be a 12guage coach gun

skinewmexico
March 24, 2008, 07:05 PM
Youth model 870. Looks better in front of a jury than somthing "tacticool".

XnaV80
March 24, 2008, 07:14 PM
Who's "we"? I'd say something that works for you AND whoever else is in your home. That said, rem 870 or win1300 youth. I don't see anything wrong with the 20ga for HD. There's buckshot out there for them, you just have to look alittle harder.

jeridurine
March 24, 2008, 07:29 PM
+1 for PS90

cslinger
March 24, 2008, 07:33 PM
Marlin 1894C Lever action in .357. Cheap fun with the .38s and crazy power with the right .357. So benign looking that even Dianne Finstein could be convinced it's just a lil' ole' cowboy gun.....well maybe not that benign but you get the point. At the end of the day it holds more then enough ammo, shoots a variety of rounds, is Cali. legal and is so short and handy you'll wonder why you never bought one before.

Chris

SaMx
March 24, 2008, 07:36 PM
If you're familiar with shotguns already a shogun would make sense. A shorter barrel for something you have would be the easiest.

but if you want a pistol caliber carbine, the choices listed are good.

cslinger
March 24, 2008, 07:47 PM
Food for thought. Below is a comparison of a 18 inch 12 gauge, a 16 inch AR15 with the stock collapsed and a Marlin 1894C. The Marlin is only marginally longer then the COLLAPSED AR15 and it is a good bit handier/lighter then both the AR and Shotgun.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff5/ferris47/1894compares.jpg?t=1206402277

epijunkie67
March 24, 2008, 08:27 PM
Ok, first things first. Anything you shoot needs to penetrate the bad guy. Anything strong enough to penetrate the bad guy will penetrate drywall and enter other units of a townhouse or apartment complex. So if you have a deep concern about stray rounds entering other units you've pretty much ruled out any good defensive firearm.

Bird shot, BB shot and other light shotgun loads might put a hurting on someone but they aren't reliable man stoppers. I've seen this with my own eyes and it's been reported on enough that it's not really open to debate. However, unless they are seriously drugged up or hell bent on killing you then most people aren't going to be too excited about getting a chest full of ANY shotgun shell.

Given that you are most familiar with pump action long arms my suggestion would be to use what you know best. The saying is that in an emergency you don't rise to the occasion but that you are reduced to the level of your training.

I truly love my lever action .357, but I would recommend against it primarily because it's a different action type than you use most. If you want that caliber then I'd get a pump .357 instead since it's use would be second nature to you. I would also consider getting a pump action shotgun with an 18" barrel. Any of the major brands will work for you. If you want a rifle caliber weapon I'd get the pump action Remington 7615. With a 10 round mag it should be CA legal.

Your final option would be any semi-auto rifle that is CA legal. Any of these would be fine for home defense. If you are trying to minimize drywall penetration then I would use the shotgun with something like a BB load. However, you have to realize that it won't stop a determined attacker and accept that as the trade off.

Rifleman 173
March 25, 2008, 10:31 AM
I would go with a good 12 gauge shotgun first for home defense. Then a 20 gauge shotgun next. My third choice would be an SKS paratrooper model carbine. Those are good and dependable guns. Fourth would be a .44 magnum lever action Marlin saddle carbine. That is one sweet cowboy type carbine with good power and punch and very accurate. Next would be the .357 magnum lever action Marlin. Those are also sweet shooting and accurate guns. Next would be a big bore pistol.

kBob
March 25, 2008, 12:09 PM
Cameron,

What types of shotguns do you use for clays?

If you use a pump or semi auto then get a shorter barrel (does ********** have additional restrictions on barrel length on shotguns above the 18 inch federal requirement?)or seperate shot gun of the same type you are most familure with.

If you are using an O/U or S/S shot gun serch to see if there is an option for those models for a shorter barrel as a quail shooter might want.

When understress is not time to be trying to remember where controls are and what they do, if possible use what you play with.

Is there anything down stairs worth loosing your life over or taking some one else's life? You may want to consider just barracking yourself and loved ones up stairs and use the phone to call Law Enforcement.

Your 30 inch barrels should work just fine if you do not leave the room the gun was stored in.

-Bob Hollingsworth

Zeede
March 25, 2008, 01:22 PM
I have a Browning Gold Evolve (autoloader), a Remington 870 Wingmaster Classic Trap (pump) and a Caesar Guerini Summit Sporting (over/under). All 12 gauge, all 30" barrels.

I could get a 18" barrel for my Wingmaster; I have to take the barrel off every time I come home to clean it, it'd be easy enough to just clean the receiver and slap the 18" barrel on it, then get back to cleaning the dirty 30" barrel.

I don't have a side-by-side, and the offerings from Stoeger wouldn't be that much more than a new barrel for the 870, and would be something different that I don't have already.

I do agree that there's no material thing I own that is worth risking my life or taking someone else's over, but should I feel the need to investigate downstairs, I want to have something I can bring with me. It's just nice to have options.

Cameron

GigaBuist
March 25, 2008, 01:40 PM
I don't have a side-by-side, and the offerings from Stoeger wouldn't be that much more than a new barrel for the 870

If you shop around long enough for that barrel you might find something around $100.

Err, actually that wasn't too hard: http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/product.asp?prod=469481&cm_mmc=comparisonshopping-_-froogle-_-all-_-469481

$92 for an 18.5" 870 barrel made by Mossberg. Blued finish, bead sight, and a sling swivel.

Crap, I think I need one of them!

phoglund
March 25, 2008, 01:55 PM
Short barreled shotgun is probably the best overall choice. Marlin 1894C would be my second choice in that environment largely for political reasons.

zxcvbob
March 25, 2008, 01:55 PM
Mine is a Marlin 1894 carbine with hot-loaded .38 Specials. But how about an 18" to 20" double-barrel shotgun? Or an M1 Carbine or SKS? (you could put a bayonet on those :))

mnw42
March 25, 2008, 03:05 PM
I'd put a shotty at the top of the list, followed by a pistol caliber carbine/Winchester M92/Marlin in a pistol caliber.

If I was to choose rifle caliber it would be my M1 Carbine or a 223/5.26 cal mini-14 or M4 carbine.

scythefwd
March 25, 2008, 08:43 PM
look into a mossberg 500a super bantom. The stock is 2 inches shorter, you can get it in 12 or 20ga, and it has a 20in barrel. Birdshot in the head may not kill, but it will probably blind or at least be a major distraction and blur vision. Also, cycling a pump shottie will send the hairs of most if not all intruders on end because they know you dont have to see them very well to hit them. I have heard of intrusions where the sound of a pump being worked was enough to change the perps mind.

Also, if the super bantom is still to long, they may a pistol grip / no butt stock option for the model 500. You can actually fire from the hip and clear out the hallway if your wrists can stand the recoil.

Jeff F
March 25, 2008, 08:57 PM
Any of the carbines in a pistol caliber would work. My self, I would get a short barreled shotgun and load it up with # 4 buck shot if I lived in a condo.

runninmike
March 25, 2008, 08:59 PM
get an 18" for your your 870 and load it up with #2 or # 3 bb's.
I load mine with 00 buck, but I also don't worry about penetrating my neighbor's inerds. If you are really worried about shooting through the walls, load the 1st shot with rubber buck which you can buy here in Ca, it is non-lethal and will cause the intruder to not attempt intruding again, and back the rubber buck with real buck if you need to put him to sleep.
The sound of your trap gun racking is probably enough to make them run.

PAULREVERE
March 26, 2008, 05:41 AM
In Cali, definately get an 18 inch Remi or Mossberg 12 or 20 gauge shotgun with nothing less than #3 or 4 buck. Extremely effective at close range, plus they look similar to your bird gun.:)

moooose102
March 26, 2008, 07:13 AM
i vote for getting another barrel for your shot gun. if a shorter one is not available, find out what the minimum length is, and have a gunsmith cut that puppy off to that length + 1/2 ". you will never find a more terrifying sight than a man holding a sawed off shotgun pointing right at you!

T.R.
March 26, 2008, 07:23 AM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/double12.jpg

These double barrel shotguns have an outstanding history of protecting settlers, Wells Fargo freight, banks, etc. I'm certain that California does not outlaw these guns.

TR

M110
March 26, 2008, 08:17 AM
18" 870 HD model

Puma 92 16" barrel in .357. Very slick action.

Cant recommend a Marlin, because I dont own one..................yet ;)

jcs271
March 26, 2008, 12:05 PM
Quote "Right now the only thing I can think of is get a pump shotgun and put a Knoxx stock on it. As long as the whole thing is 27" long when collapsed, it's still legal, but I would like to know what my other options are."



Actually, as long as the stock is "permanently affixed" (screwed/bolted on) your overall length MUST be over 26" when fully extended to be compliant with federal law. There is NO issue with overall length when in the collapsed/folded position. MANY rifles and shotguns are only 20-24 inches long in the collapsed position.

Remember, Rifles must have a 16 inch barrel. Shotguns an 18" barrel.

Bartholomew Roberts
March 26, 2008, 12:13 PM
If you are really worried about shooting through the walls, load the 1st shot with rubber buck which you can buy here in Ca, it is non-lethal and will cause the intruder to not attempt intruding again, and back the rubber buck with real buck if you need to put him to sleep.

Rubber shot is less-lethal not non-lethal. It can and has killed people. More importantly from a legal standpoint, it will most likely be viewed as a use of deadly force, even though it is much inferior in terms of physiologically stopping an assailant.

So from my perspective, it looks like this:

1. All the legal liability of using deadly force.
2. None of the stopping potential of real buckshot.

I would suggest that rubber buckshot is one of those items that has a very limited, niche use and home defense is not one of those.

Soybomb
March 26, 2008, 01:31 PM
Rubber shot is less-lethal not non-lethal. It can and has killed people. More importantly from a legal standpoint, it will most likely be viewed as a use of deadly force, even though it is much inferior in terms of physiologically stopping an assailant.
I'm with you I would have a very hard time justifying its use. You should only be firing your gun if you're in fear for your life, if you're in fear for your life you probably want to stop your attacker as quickly as possible and that means something other than rubber shot.

Zeede
March 26, 2008, 02:18 PM
T.R.: That side-by-side would be an attractive choice for me, except I've read tons of horror stories about the Baikal and Stoeger ones. I mean, what do you expect for a $350 doublegun. Last thing I need is the selective trigger not working or a firing pin breaking when I need it most.

I'll look into the Mossberg Bantam.

Cameron

strat81
March 26, 2008, 02:29 PM
If you're familiar with shotguns already a shogun would make sense. A shorter barrel for something you have would be the easiest.
Some of the best advice in the thread.

If you're familiar with the 870 already, get another.

I'm not a huge fan of pistol caliber carbines - pistol calibers penetrate plenty of drywall and you're stuck with something not much more effective than a handgun. The benefit is the longer sight radius compared to a pistol, but, IMHO, that does not provide enough benefit to overcome the size.

If you can't swing an off-list AR, I'd also consider a Remington 7615 pump rifle that accepts AR mags. There are tons of options for 5.56/.223 ammo. For example, M855 wouldn't be the best choice for a townhouse, but a V-Max or frangible could be.

If you haven't already, check calguns.net for state-specific info.

Good luck!

Asaph
March 26, 2008, 02:35 PM
Ruger 10-22 .22 cal carbine.

Nice little Rifle!

mordechaianiliewicz
March 26, 2008, 03:10 PM
Shottie is what I'd say.

If you insist on a pistol cal carbine, look into Hi-Point.

Mike 56
March 26, 2008, 06:38 PM
One of these should do the trick http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=381172 Plus with a 20 inch barrel you can go to a folding stock or pistol grip some day if you want to. Mossberg sells 18 1/2 barrels with bead sights for 870s for around a hundred dollars. You can always build a CA legal AK47 or AR15. The AR you can build in 9mm. http://www.monstermangrip.com/

Mike

Timthinker
March 26, 2008, 09:32 PM
Zeede, purchasing a shorter interchangeable barrel for your 12 gauge seems like the best and most economical option. I recommend a good buckshot load for self-defense since slugs, my favorite loading, could overpenetrate. The 12 gauge shotgun is a true powerhouse with the proper round. I consider a pump-action 12 gauge one of the most powerful self-defense firearms I have owned. Hopefully, you will never need to test this recommendation. Good luck.


Timthinker

bnoz01
March 27, 2008, 12:58 AM
FWIW: CDNN currently is clearing out the Ruger PC-4 semi-auto police carbines in 40 S&W. I believe the price is $370.

I own one is 9mm and it's my go-to HD choice.

B. Noz.

justin 561
May 28, 2008, 03:02 PM
A Mossberg 500 tactical cruiser is not too bad of a HD weapon. Pistol grip, 16.5'' barrel, buckshot, and a crook in a casket..

Eyesac
May 28, 2008, 03:23 PM
I vote for lever in handgun round...

4Low
May 28, 2008, 03:30 PM
I just picked up a Ruger PC9 for plinking and HD. I like the extra weight it has over the Hi-Point and Kel-tec carbines. If 10 rounds of hot 9mm isn't enough, I could always use it as a club. :D

dogngun
May 28, 2008, 03:35 PM
Since you live in california, try a lever action carbine in .44 mag or .45 Colt, even a .357 mag. You can load and shoot specials in the magnum rifles, and cowboy loads in the .45. THey are very effective weapons, reliable, don't look like evil assault rifles. You can also butt stroke the SOB when he's on the floor bleeding.

FWIW, I live in the East, and I use a Chinese SKS with jhp ammo, with a .45 auto as a backup and a 110 pound dog as an alarm.

mark

Z-Michigan
May 28, 2008, 03:47 PM
Ruger Mini-14 (assuming it's CA legal, I don't know) or Remington 7615 (takes AR-15 magazines, yes I realize you'll be limited to 10 rounders). .223/5.56 is an effective round with limited penetration in drywall and other urban type settings. In fact, probably a better choice than any effective pistol caliber if overpenetration is a concern - which it should be.

2nd choice would be any legal 18" shotgun with #4 buckshot as a compromise between adequate penetration and limiting overpenetration.

The .44 and .357 lever-action carbines are generally a good idea and would be effective, but overpenetration is a serious concern with those. They *will* be deadly after going through several layers of drywall. Not really compatible with a townhome.

Squidward
May 28, 2008, 11:28 PM
It looks like you know the correct answer..

"I could get a 18" barrel for my Wingmaster; I have to take the barrel off every time I come home to clean it, it'd be easy enough to just clean the receiver and slap the 18" barrel on it, then get back to cleaning the dirty 30" barrel"

bl4ckd0g
May 29, 2008, 11:05 AM
I would not trust a 5.56 centerfire round in a townhouse even if exterior walls were solid concrete.
Get the cheapest pawn shop pump shotgun that you are comfortable operating in a safe manner. Since you live in CA, I doubt that there's any chance of retrieving your weapon after the fact. A pistol carbine also makes sense if you're not too handy with an actual pistol.
Also, a liberal soccer mom jury would crucify you if you used a black rifle like an AR or PS90.

Art Eatman
May 29, 2008, 01:32 PM
A person who's familiar with the use of a particular shotgun only needs a short and handy barrel. Since changing the barrel on a Wingmaster is easy, the least-cost and most-effective thing to do IMO is buy a barrel.

Center-punch a Bad Guy with a load of #9 Skeet at five yards and I'd say it's an adequate load for social occasions.

Oven Cleaner does a pretty good job of removing stains from artificial-fiber carpets...

BigGunsMoreFun
May 29, 2008, 08:36 PM
I'd be afraid to use a rifle of any decent caliber due to over-penetration concerns. You don't want to shoot through the perp, the walls and into your neighbor's house. :eek:

I have an old Remington-Spartan 12 gauge SxS coach gun with internal hammers, 20" barrels and double triggers for home protection. I keep it right next to the bed at night. It stays barrels down in an open shotgun bag with a #4 shot shell in one barrel and 00 buckshot shell in the other barrel. I have a 6 shell holder attached to the buttstock with 3 rounds of each type of ammo in it. :what:

I have a flashlight taped to the bottom of the barrels close to the forearm in the center of the barrels. If I hear a noise that ain't right in the middle of the night everyone knows to gather in my bedroom or if they can't get there to lay down on the floor don't move and don't make a sound. We also have a safety word so if by chance I walk into a room with the gun and there are more people in the room than are supposed to be there, I know by that word who is supposed to be there and who is not. :scrutiny:

The ideal situation of course is that everyone makes it to my room, I close the door, close the gun, take the safety off and call 911 and the cops get there in time to handle the situation. I'm not counting on that though. The only time I turn the flashlight on and shoot is if someone tries to enter that room without the safety word or without identifying themselves as an LEO. I make sure all household members are accounted for before I even think about shooting. I give a loud verbal command to anyone attempting to enter that I am armed and will shoot if you don't leave or identify yourself. :cuss:

I also tell the 911 operator to warn the responding LEOs that I am the homeowner, I am armed and I will disarm when I see the LEOs and they have identified theirselves. :rolleyes:

I keep a key to the house well hidden outside in a locked box that I can unlock remotely even in a power outage. I tell the 911 operator where the key will be and how the LEO can get it so they can come through the front or back door depending on their situation. :rolleyes:

My wife and I and all the people that live in or stay in my house more than occassionally have been through an actual drill of this scenario at least a couple of times a month since we have lived in the house. :scrutiny:

I see I went a little off topic here but I think a good gun is worthless without a good plan so I offer both. I believe the above plan will work well in case of a ne'er do well attempting unauthorized entry into my house. I think the above shotgun is just the ticket if needed. Two rounds from it center mass should stop most anyone. If not I have 6 more rounds and a nice pistol full of .45ACP 230 grain JHP XTP close by if needed. ;)

Be safe. Don't shoot unless you absolutely have to. If so, shoot to kill but only long enough to stop the threat. Make damn sure you obey every single word that responding LEO says until the situation is in LEO's control. He or she is trying to help you no matter how it may appear at the time. :o

One last thing I would mention that many will disagree with, I keep all guns in a safe except for the home defense gun. The last thing I need is family members or friends trying to help by having multiple guns in action. Make a plan and stick to it. The only other loaded gun in my house is the .45 pistol and it is in a safe in the same room with me and the shotgun. Also, in the above situation I am the only one handling any guns and my wife is actually the one talking to the 911 operator.

Make a plan, practice it and make sure everyone sticks to it. You'll be scared but safe most of the time. If you have to shoot, by all means shoot but do it as a last resort. Good luck and God Speed.

A little more than my 2 cents. Hope it helps.

Molon Labe,
Joe
:D

44AMP
May 30, 2008, 12:07 AM
And no matter what many will say, even bird shot is useful at point blank range. A short barrel for your trap gun is the best solution (easiest/cheapest), but a double barrel "coach gun" is an attractive alternative. Get one with double triggers. I have one of the chinese made ones with double trigger and outside hammers just for this. It was cheap when I bought it ($200), probably not that much more now, and it does work.

Being where you are, resign yourself that if you do need to shoot someone, the cops will take your gun (evidence), and you may not get it back, even if they find the shooting justified. You should get it back eventually, but some places will not turn gun back over to their owners, no mattrer what. If you fight it, they will just cut you a check. Your locality might not do this, but isn't it worth finding out? I would rather loose a cheap chinese coach gun to the system than a good quality trap gun.

In the situation you described, probably the best thing to do is trust to your insurance for everthing downstairs, and defend the stairwell against intruders. At the foot of the stairs, even a birdshot round in the chest or the face ought to deter just about anyone. And buckshot will do even better. Plus, the angle of shooting down the stairwell will reduce risk to neighbors as well.

rdoggsilva
May 30, 2008, 03:25 AM
My house gun is a Mossy 500 12ga, 18 1/2" barrel. I use #4 buck, it will not go through 4 walls but still has the stopping power I need.

tinygnat219
May 30, 2008, 08:28 AM
Rifle for home defense? Wouldn't recommend it outside of a pistol carbine. Get a shotgun instead, 18.5 inch barrel.

Robert14
May 30, 2008, 03:01 PM
Check the penetration of the .223 round compared to 00 buck & common handgun rounds. You may find that the .223 has LESS overpenetration than some of the others.

RP88
May 30, 2008, 03:15 PM
a shotgun is still the way to go for long-gun HD, IMO. Get a good riot-type model if possible. If you cannot get a 8-shot or 9-shot model, then get a good 6-shot. Mossberg comes to mind for either/or

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