[Mastrogiacomo]

My father, who will be getting his Class B (restricted to five rounds or under in a long gun) is interested in a home defense rifle. Suggestions? Something preferrably that won't knock him on his ??? or break the bank for the purchase. Appreciate any suggestions.

[DMK]

20GA pump shotgun like a Remmy or Mossberg. 12GA would be even better if he can handle the recoil.

They have revolver like reliabilty, and very good stopping power. They also have versatile ammo loads ranging from birdshot to buckshot to slugs.

The shotgun is the premier home defense weapon. Rifles are not so good for home defense due to overpenetration issues. The only reasonable situation for a rifle is on a ranch or a huger piece of property. But even then, engaging somebody with lethal force at rifle ranges will put you in a very disadvantaged legal position once the crisis is over.

[glockten]

For HD, I prefer something in a handgun caliber. There are several lever rifles available in .357 Mag/.38 Spl, .44 Mag/.44 Spl, and .45 Colt. Cimarron, Dixie Gun Works, EMF, Henry, IAR, Marlin, Navy Arms, Legacy Sports, Taylor's, Tristar, Uberti, and Winchester all either import or manufacture these. I do not recommend using a .44 Mag for HD, but generally, a lever rifle so chambered will also function with .44 Spl.

There are also semi-auto carbines chambered in 9mm, .40S&W, 10mm, .44 Mag, and .45ACP. Beretta, H&K, Kel-Tec, Olympic Arms, and Ruger are some of the makers of these.

Recoil in any of these calibers in a rifle is negligible, and several of these rifles can be had for less than $500.

On a side note, what is a Class B?

[Hkmp5sd]

I keep a Remington 870 for defense inside the house and a Ruger Mini-14 for any defensive needs requiring farther distance. I live in a subdivision with the houses fairly far apart, so over penetration isn't one of the primary concerns, but the need to reach out and touch someone could be necessary.

[4v50 Gary]

SKS with five round magazine. If you shoot someone in self defense, your firearm gets confiscated. Why lose something expensive to the police property room. It'll come back neglected and probably with dents and scratches. Go cheap, go SKS.

[Mastrogiacomo]

Class A -- permit to carry and own high capacity firearms
Class B -- permit to own low capacity firearms -- 9 rounds and under handguns, five and under long guns. Can't carry.

I mentioned the Remey 870 but said the pistol is ideal. Doesn't the barrel length become an issue in the 20 gauge?

[Cosmoline]

We'll I'd vote for Class **** and move out of there!

But either way, a .357 levergun is a great choice. I like the ultra-short Marlin 1894's much better than the modern Winchester '94's.

[XxAR10xX]

For me, nothing says home defense like an AK with a 30rd clip. :D

[Dr.Rob]

Rifles tend to shoot through things rather than into them. A rifle in a pistol caliber that can only hold five shots is rather a waste. A short barreled shotgun, in semi or pump is the way to go. Remington, Winchester and Mossberg all make afforable short guns in 20 and 12 ga.

I'd recommend a Remington 870 pump or 11-87 semi auto. Seem like even in Mass. people duck hunt, should be places available to shoot/practice.

[Art Eatman]

I'm another vote in favor of a shotgun over a rifle for home defense in an urban area.

Specifically speaking to an indoors situation, it's difficult to see how the distance would exceed some 30 feet or so. At this distance, a 20-gauge shotgun loaded with #9 Skeet would be as effective as 00 Buck from a 12-gauge. If one anticipates a need to engage a Bad Guy at a longer distance, the heavier pellets of 00 are better.

There are many inexpensive pump shotguns. To make it more useful as a home defense weapon, the barrel can be shortened by any competent gunsmith toward the minimum legal length, and a new front bead installed.

Or, one could acquire a 12- or 20-gauge "Coach Gun", a double-barrelled gun with exposed hammers. When the hammers are down, it can't fire. To fire, cock the hammers and pull the trigger.

Since there is no such thing as "can't miss with a shotgun", some practice is definitely in order...

:), Art

[benEzra]

If he did want a rifle, a 5-round lever action that can be "topped off" from a cartridge belt, bandoleer, or stock sock acts like it has a longer magazine than it does.

BTW, a .223 with 40-gr JHP's or Hornady VMAX penetrates much less in wallboard than a centerfire handgun shooting JHP's. Ruger mini-14 comes with a 5-round magazine.

[bullfrog99]

I would suggest a Kalashnikov rifle. My choice would be either an SAR-1 with five round chinese mags or pick up one of those single stack ak rifles with a five shot mag. The sks is alright also, but it loads with stripper clips and in most cases it isn't as fast as an AK on the reload. Those few extra seconds may be an issue if you only have five shots. Also the magazine can be kept loaded and seperate from the kalashnikov. To keep from overpenitration I would suggest either cor-bon rounds loaded with 125 grain tnt hollowpoints or the magsafe load. Either one would put a biped down in one shot to the chest. Consider the best (or should I say one of the best) handgun stoppers is the 357 magnum with a 125 grain round at 1450 fps. the 7.62x39 AK will put roughly the same weight round (123 grain) up to 2300 fps.

[Sir Galahad]

A rifle with under 5 rounds effectively cancels out the pistol caliber lever actions. They hold 6 to 8 to 10. You're looking at mostly bolt action and pump action rifles with a handful of semis. Any of them will be chambered in rounds I guar-un-darn-tee ya will go through most house walls and through every apartment wall with the exception of some .223 rifles. The advice others have given is sound: shotgun. There is the option of the CZ 527 carbine chambered in .223 and find some effective fodder for that. They're not expensive. But the shotgun is still the best idea. A better idea is to move to a less capacity-prude locale.

[Gary H]

Short barrel (whatever is legal in your local) backbored 870 with sidesaddle in 12 ga. Defensive shotgun class. Practice.

[bad_dad_brad]

Personally, I would go with a Winchester pump 1300 Defender in 20 gauge loaded with #3 magnums for home defense, and a good revolver with a 3" or more barrel in .38 caliber on the night stand for backup. If you can only pick one, pick the shotgun.

Rifles for street or acreage defense are great. But once the bad guy is in your walls, you want something that is better for close quarter, like a shotgun, and a 20 gauge is easier to control and almost as effective as a 12 gauge at close range. The DA revolver in .38 caliber for home defense is the way to go for someone who is not an experienced shooter. Point and pull the trigger, light recoil, it will do the job.

[BDM]

To MASTROGIACOMO in boston 10 rounds in under is considered low capacity for long guns as well when the laws changed in 98 if you had a high capacity rifle or shotgun class B would allow you to keep it but a class A was needed to purchase,the M1 is legal to have on a classB since it only takes 8 rounds any semiauto shotgun over 5 rounds was considered high capacity but semi auto rifles the garand is 8 and legal, boston requires you be a member of a gun club your dad should go for the classA ,you pay the same money either way.even with that boston stamps a restriction on it anyway because even with classA it only allows you to carry to and from your club,My buddy lives in boston and I think your club being 24 hour acess can be a factor in getting a class A,He had no problem getting his,I live in winthrop so my class A is for"all lawful purposes"unrestricted I can carry anywhere and boston has to honor out of boston class As because according to state law it is the license that allows concealed carry. so check with BPD the garand should be fine 10 rounds and under is low capacity semi auto rifles and pistols, 5 rounds and under is for a semiauto shotgun over 5 would make it a high cap asside from a semiauto shotgun only long arms and pistols capable of accepting a feed device with capacity over 10 rounds is considered high capacity,a pump shotgun can be a 9 or 10 shot with no restriction the high capacity rule only affects semi autos.:DAnd also my buddy said you can have high capacity weapons on a class A if you live in boston as long as they are stored outside the city,check with gun shops like Collectors Coin Gallery in stoneham and 4 Seasons in woburn.Even a fixed mag sks makes the law as well as single stack AKs.

[russlate]

Should have hit reload or refresh before posting, I see. But it still makes sense anyway except now the pistol caliber lever actions have a place for them too.
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Get a Winchester or Marlin in 30-30 that will hold 4+1 or 5+1 depending on which is legal.

Then load it with 223 Accelerators ( 3400 fps nominal ) or 125 grain HP's ( 2570 fps nominal ). The 223 is listed at 1412 ft. lbs., and the 125/30 at 1830 ft. lbs. muzzle energy respectively. I'd imagine either woud stop quickly without excessive penetration.

Get out and practise to find point of aim/point of impact with both loads. I hear it gets cold around those parts and I'd think the 125's would be better in winter and heavy clothing and the Accelerator better in summer.

Alternatively, he might want to load it with the Accelerator first up, followed with four 125 grain bullets. I'd give the neighborhood the benefit of the high velocity 223 spattering, but if shot #1 doesn't stop the proceedings immediately, to hell with the neighborhood. If the assailant isn't down by the time I throw the lever shot #2 had better do the job.

I have no problem with the SKS or various AK versions, but kind of doubt that they'd be available to residents of Boston. Pumps ( Remington or Browning ) with 4 or 5 shot detatchable magazines in 243, or 250 Savage, 257 or 260, or other light kicking cartridges - or equivalent selfloading deer guns if they allow them - could do too as most of them offer varmint loadings.

Just wanted to point out that you said your dad wanted a home defense rifle, not a shotgun, and there seem to be some good rifles that would do nicely. In fact, a rifle is a reminder that inside a home a shotgun needs to be aimed as carefully as a rifle.

I'm not putting down a 20 ga. in fact I have a 20 ga. Browning A5 that handles like a M1 carbine and I'd be comfortable grabbing in the middle of the night.

Also consider if your dad has the option of a pistol, it may be better than rifle or shotgun within the close quarters of a home. If you cannot go the revolver/pistol route, either rifle or shotgun will do well if he becomes properly trained in it's home defense use.

I still think your Dad would be better off getting a deer tag and hunting license ( which rules out the 223 ) and taking a day or a weekend off to go deerhunting once. Nothing says you have to look for a deer. If you see one, you needn't try to hit it either. Or go out upland game hunting with your birdgun. Or get a skeet gun and shoot skeet.

Then you can lose interest or get disillusioned and put away your deer rifle or bird gun until in fear for your life...


Dear God, there is no way I could stand living in Massachusetts or California after 30 years in Nevada. Reading their gun laws gives me worse nightmares than reading Stephen King! There's always been a loaded pistol/revolver under the seat and as like as not a loaded but empty chambered longgun behind the truck seat. Only difference lately is I carry on me, legally, now.

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

In terms of practicality, a pump shotgun or a double barrel coach gun like Art proscribes would be my first choice. No hassles with the 'round capacity' gotcha, strong audio-visual aid as a housewarmer, and the versatility of round selection as far as shot size and the bonus of slugs.

The manual of arms is easier to learn and teach in a jiffy, too.

Most any used Remington, Mossberg, or Winchester pump, or any of the good quality double barrel coach models from say, Stoeger or EAA would be a likely deal.

(edited to add the following)-

The 30-30 Accelerators in the previous post are made by Remington. It's a saboted bullet of a smaller caliber with a 'shoe' or plastic external jacket that allows a smaller diameter bullet (in this case, approx .22 caliber and 55 grains) to be fired at higher velocity from a standard chambered firearm, in this case, 30-30. I reccomend against this fro home defense simply because I have used 30-06 Accelerators and experienced penetration against steel plate targets at 300 yards. My experience is that the bullet used in Accelerators is not highly frangible. Additionally, DO NOT use pointed bullets in a tubular magazine because of the possibility of detonating a primer in the tube ahead of the pointed round.

Regards,
Rabbit.

[DMK]

will be getting his Class B (restricted to five rounds or under in a long gun) I wonder how a sidesaddle or buttcuff with loops for 5 extra rounds would fit in to the legal box? Would five in the mag and five on the stock legally be considered 10 rounds in the weapon?

[fish2xs]

Mastrogiacomo - fellow comrad!

It sounds like your dad lives in MA.

Shotgun - hands down for self defense. If he can handle a 12G go for it,
if not - go with a 20G.

Ammo is readily available in a wide variety of loads and "Ummph's".

Plus if the worst occurs and your dad has to defend himself legally
after defending himself physically, then (in my humble opinion) a
wood-stock shotgun would look better to a jury than a SAR-1 (or any
other AK-47 look-alike).

[David4516]

You have to have a permit to even OWN a gun? You're kidding, right? Isn't that unconstitutional or something? I have never heard of such a strict law before.

And whats with this 5 rounds and under crap :cuss:

That makes almost ANY rilfe illegal even if you have the permit. It even rules out some really old guns like .30-30 lever actions. I don't think I'd want to live in an area where my .30-30 is considered an evil black rifle...

Well if you can only have 5 rounds, I'd go for a Reminton shotgun...

[45R]

870 Shotgun.