[fastson]

Hey.

I've just started out moulding my own bullets for my old single action revolver, so bare with me. :D

I found metal which I thought was lead but after making a couple of bullets and weighing them the weight turned out to be less than what a pure lead bullet should weigh.

0.457 pure lead bullet should weigh around 9.3 grams, my bullet weighs 8.7 grams.

It looks like lead, feels like lead (pretty soft), could it be a mix of lead and tin? Do you think its safe to shoot?

Like I said, 0.457 bullet in a Remington 1858 antique/original pistol.

Thanks for any help, looking forward to taking part in this forum. :)

[ClarkEMyers]

I don't know what it is. Lead and tin mix best for casting when there is some antimony in the mix as well. Your alloy may be solder or shot or type metal of some sort.

I don't shoot anything but pure lead (or something I have some idea as cable sheathing or X-ray insulation) in muzzle loading blackpowder firearms.

Likely your alloy will make a fine cast bullet for smokeless powder. Again I am pretty fussy about lead for blackpowder muzzle loading firearms. I'd say moreso for antique/original but truly I'm pretty fussy about lead either way.

[rcmodel]

Speak reloading!

What is the ball's weight in grains?

Some variation of a few grains would be in line with various other metals alloyed with pure lead. It would also make the ball bigger or smaller then what the mold would throw with pure lead.

Did you actually measure them at .457", or is that just what the mold is supposed to throw?

Sometimes mold makers screw up!

rcmodel

[GP100man]

that feller ain`t from around heer!!
i thank hees across the big pond or up north, way north!

if its soft enuff it should do what he wants to do ,the poi may be lower thuogh.
wonder what kind of fumes are commin off that mystery metal?????
PLEASE BE CAREFUL casting with unknown alloys, we want to hear from you in the future!!!!
almost missed that was your first post fastson WELCOME to the forums & happy shootin!!!!
get some lead of known alloy & compare, thats the sureest way.

GP100man

[fastson]

Yes its true, I am across the pond.. and yes up north. Sweden to be exact. :rolleyes:

Did you actually measure them at .457", or is that just what the mold is supposed to throw?

It was measured with a digital caliper.

The weight of the bullets in grains are: 133.6 and 134 (I made three bullets, two are left after the 3rd perished in a "softness test" :evil: )

The metal I got from one of those big "lead" hammers.. they say they are made out of lead but no one is sure.

This is my gun.
http://pici.se/pictures/tsWzxqevx.jpg

PLEASE BE CAREFUL casting with unknown alloys, we want to hear from you in the future!!!!
almost missed that was your first post fastson WELCOME to the forums & happy shootin!!!!
get some lead of known alloy & compare, thats the sureest way.

Thanks man. Dont worry I will. I have just ordered some Hornady Round Balls .457 ... but it would be fun to make my own bullets at the same time.

[Vern Humphrey]

Ask the gun!

If the metal is soft enough to be scratched with a fingernail, it should be fine. But anyway, now that you have the bullets cast, lube them up and shoot them.

If they shoot well, you have a good alloy.

[GP100man]

fastson
i love castin ,it`s another whole aspect of shootin!!
check out this site castboolits.com
you`ll love it i promise!!
dont`t sweat the weight , different alloys will weigh different , if you can squeeze em in the cyl there soft enuff .
had a buddy that had an old army ruger, we had a blast !
be safe ,be careful & have fun!!!

GP100man

[fastson]

Vern Humphrey: Did the scratch-test.. no go, did not manage to scratch it with my fingernail. :/

GP100man: Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

I havent tried pressing them into the cylinder yet, what if I get stuck half way.. ;)

Right now it looks like I'll wait for my Hornady Round Balls to arrive, what a shame. Though my bullet mould will not go to waste, I'll just melt some Hornady bullets instead. :D

[Vern Humphrey]

You can order alloys from Midway for less than already-formed roundballs.

But have you shot bullets cast from the alloy you have? If they shoot well, your problems are solved.

[fastson]

Vern Humphrey: Nope, I dont have the "balls" :|

Its an old gun, would it really be safe? Considering the bullets are .457

What is the worst that could happen? Barrel explosion, is that common amongst BP-guns?

[Vern Humphrey]

Its an old gun, would it really be safe? Considering the bullets are .457

What is the worst that could happen? Barrel explosion, is that common amongst BP-guns?

Shoot a well-lubed bore-sized ball, and you should be all right.

[ClarkEMyers]

Given that round balls are not themselves lubricated - but may be sealed by smearing the cylinder full of grease in front of the bullet - and that lead balls seal the chamber by squeezing down under the rammer - and given that the rammer can break trying to squeeze down a harder alloy and given that poorly seated bullets can allow the cylinder to fire all at once given the nature of blackpowder revolvers regardless of how many chambers are capped and if they are all capped that's another substantial risk of multiple discharge if something moves around a little too much - and given that blackpowder is touchy to experiment with -

Shoot a well-lubed bore-sized ball, and you should be all right.

In order to seal the cylinder the lead round balls used in blackpowder revolvers are always over bore size - at least in traditional as here older revolvers

I wouldn't do it with anything but known lead alloys.

I've fired my share of mystery metal in target wadcutters with target loads - 148 wadcutters and 2.7 Bullseye and such in good strong guns where a pressure excursion could double pressures with no risk beyond losing points and tempo but experimenting with old blackpowder revolvers is a dirty business.

[fastson]

I was thinking of using Petroleum jelly for lube/protection against chainfire, I guess the "protection" has the purpose of lubing the ball?

The cylinder dia. is .45 most people seem to use .454 or thereabouts. One guy mentioned they used .457 bullets in the old days, thats why I got a .457 mold.

Anyway, the New Army model is a .44 caliber pistol.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e298/Forsete/pirra6.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e298/Forsete/pirra8.jpg

[isuace]

if you are worried about chain fire, but want to try it out, why not just load up one cylinder?

[Vern Humphrey]

if you are worried about chain fire, but want to try it out, why not just load up one cylinder?
Exactly.

If you can ram it, it will shoot. It will be properly sized (the ramming action is also a sizing action), and there will be no chain fire (which is usually caused by caps sympathetically detonating, not by "flash over.")

The key is, "If you can ram it." If it can be rammed home, it's soft enough.

[Sunray]

8.7 grams is 134.3 grains. 9.3 is 143.5 grains.
http://www.unitconversion.org/weight/grams-to-grains-conversion.html
.457" bullets are too big for a .44. They're too big for a .45 calibre revolver too. You really don't want to be experimenting with bullet diameter if your revolver is a real 19th century vintage Remington.
Big lead hammers would be made out of contaminated lead. The contamination being other metals.

[RecoilRob]

I looked at the pic of your casting attempt and you should NOT try to fire one of those! The mold was cold and it has many surface imperfections that could/will prevent proper sealing....not to mention internal flaws and occlusions.

Casting a good projectile normally takes a bit of time to get the mould up to temperature. Mine normally need 5-10 fills before they start putting out properly done projos.

Also, if you can't scratch it easily with your thumbnail....you SHOULDN'T even try to load it in you revolver. It is way too hard and will over-stress the loading lever.

You will probably be fine with the .457's. Load a few and see how much of a ring of lead is shaved off during the process. Also note the amount of force required for seating.

Some fellows remove a nipple and then pound a ball into the mouth with a mallet. Then use a rod through the nipple hole to push it back out for measurement. This is the best way to make sure what diameter ball you need. Oh, a bit of oil helps with this checking process too.

Good luck with your shooting! And, Welcome to THR. Rob

[Johnny Guest]

It may be a little late to do this, but this thread actually belongs in the Blackpowder Forum. Not only is that the proper niche, but the charcoal burning guys will probably have better input on casting bullets for front loaders.

Best,
Johnny

[scrat]

yep as soon as i saw that round ball thats what i said. The mold was too cold. That ball is how it will look when the mold is too cold. You need to heat it up some more then try again. Your trying to get a perfect round ball. a mold too cold will not fill all the way. make sure the mold is clean too any kind of lubricant will make it look like that. Then do not use petroleum jelly. dont use any kind of petroleum products. Petroleum does not mix with black powder. You need to use bore butter or if your in a hurry go to your grocery store and buy some crisco. Old lard. Now a 44 a good load would be 25 grains of black powder a good round ball and some crisco on top. Later on your going to learn about wads. Those things are great.

[jgo296]

only one way to find out

[pohill]

I tried using wheelweights to cast roundballs once - might as well have used wheel rims. The metal is way too hard. Nothing but pure lead should go into these BP revolvers. Especially if you're ramming a .457 into an old gun - .454 should be plenty.
I also cast some roundballs once that were not perfectly round - dimples, uneven edges, etc and I had two chainfires from that batch in two different guns. Both times the caps were untouched and unfired.

[scrat]

wow that is just so dangerous. i hope that never happens to me.

[Jamie C.]

I found metal which I thought was lead but after making a couple of bullets and weighing them the weight turned out to be less than what a pure lead bullet should weigh.

Probably Bismuth or Antimony. At very least, a lead alloy with a high content of one or the other.

It looks like lead, feels like lead (pretty soft), could it be a mix of lead and tin? Do you think its safe to shoot?

Depends on what you mean by "safe", and whether or not you can get it to form up better than your first attempt produced. I doubt it'd hurt the gun, but as already mentioned, those imperfections might lead to chain firing - and that could damage the gun and you. Pure lead is soft enough that it would be more likely to deform under the pressure of the loading ram enough to fill in those imperfections. A harder allow probably won't.


Load a few and see how much of a ring of lead is shaved off during the process.

Look close at the pics of his gun, RecoilRob. The chamber mouths are chamfered. He's not likely to see a lot of shaving, even with proper lead.

only one way to find out

Yeah, but not a good one. :uhoh:



J.C.

[Misfire99]

Man what a bunch of chicken little advice. No your barrel will not blow up. Even if your mold is cold it will not effect the ball in the pistol only it's accuracy.

I use .457 balls all the time. But mine are pure lead. The reason I do this is when I ram them in the cylinder a circle of lead is cut off and this sizes them to the cylinder. Now I have more bearing area for the bullet to bite into the rifling of the barrel. This gives very good accuracy.

Chain fires, blown up barrels, man whats next AIDS from not having a jar of Gypsy Tears?

If you can ram it into the cylinder you can shoot it!!

[Wildfire]

Hey There:
Misfire is right. Bad bullets do hit very well. But should not harm the gun.
From the looks of that cast ball your temp, is way too low. Pure lead only in very old or rare or BP hand guns. More of a sealing issue then blowing up barrels.

[sundance44s]

Careful ..lead casting is addicting too
http://i27.tinypic.com/14bhxy9.jpg

[Jamie C.]

Bad bullets do hit very well. But should not harm the gun.

Bad casts with soft lead... yes, you're right.

Bad casts with a too hard, unknown alloy? Don't be so sure.

The biggest problem here isn't with Fastson's casting technique, it's the fact he doesn't know what he's casting with. Could be pure antimony for all we know.

Better to err on the side of caution at this point, I think.
One way or the other, I'm not gonna tell him to do something I haven't at least tried myself, and have some idea as to whether it'll work or not.



J.C.

[pohill]

I use only pure lead for my roundballs. If anyone wants to use harder lead, go right ahead, but things will go wrong. First of all, you will not be able to ram the ball down properly and will probably break or damage the loading lever. Most likey the ball will not seat below the edge of the chamber and you will not be able to turn the cylinder. Now you have to remove the cylinder and the nipple and push the ball out from the nipple side with a strong piece of metal, which is not good for the nipple threads in the cylinder. If you do seat the ball below the rim, it most likely will not conform to the shape of the chamber enough to prevent a chainfire. And if you don't have a chainfire (which, by the way, was no big deal the two times it happened to me), the gasses from the BP exploding could slip around the ball instead of pushing it out, thus reducing velocity and accuracy. Also, you have to think about the damage a harder metal will do to the rifling in the barrel. Now, add all that to an antique gun and, well, like Jamie C. said, I'd rather err on the side of caution.
Nothing to do with Chicken Little or Aids - just common sense.

[sundance44s]

I tryed wheel weight lead for round balls once , it may have worked well on a Colt because the ball rammer lever is made stronger ..BUT the balls were just too hard for the pins on my 1858 Remington lever and sheared one of the pivot pins ...Since that happened I`ve stayed with plumbers grade lead for round ball casting ..I use the harder stuff for bullet casting .

[pohill]

I tore up a floor in a bedroom and found this pipe running along the joists. Sundance identified it as a lead water pipe. It's 15 feet long and weight 30 lbs, and it's soft enough to tie in a knot. Sure going to get some roundballs out of this once the weather breaks.
Lead for water pipes - wow.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/S4020004-7.jpg

[sundance44s]

Pohill thats whats in my open pot ..water pipes ...I bought 150 lbs of them last year ..was I glad to get them ..with the price of clean lead 2.45 a lb here the water pipes cost me 80 cents a lb ..and cast real soft round balls ..

[zxcvbob]

I just scrounged 15 pounds of lead from the backstop at the indoor pistol range, and should be able to get another 15 pounds next week. It's probably over 95% lead from .22's. Harder than pure lead, but I can scratch it pretty good with my fingernail. That should be OK for casting balls for my ROA, right?

[sundance44s]

indoor range or any range except black powder ranges ...sounds more like bullet lead , not good Round ball lead ..it`ll be too hard for round balls . They would be real hard to seat ...might break or bend your loading rammer lever.

[scrat]

Sundance been there done that. used to do pot method. i tell you what once you try a bottom pour lee production pot you will never do propane again. as far as molds at one time i was up to 12 molds. sold a few of the molds i did not like on gun brokers

[sundance44s]

I tried the electric Lee mold ..not the real big one but one of the smaller ones ..I didn`t like it ..too hard to keep things hot ..I like a nice fire under the pot , so I can heat my mold next to the flame while the lead melts ....my first cast looks as good as my last this way . I burned out the element on the Lee electric ..in less than 6 months ..I was doing alot of casting so I didn`t complain and I know a guy that is useing one he has had for 15 years , he doesn`t cast near as much as I do though ...just went back to my propane set up and didn`t look back . It`s hard not to keep buying molds when the Lee molds cost about the same as 2 boxes of store bought balls .

[scrat]

Well i have probably cast over 30k from my lee production IV pot. As for warming up the mold and keeping heat. it is way more accurate than a stove. Here is what i do.. Set up the pot plug it in. put in about 10lbs of lead. Put the mold on top. Then i start setting up the rest of my stuff. smoke a cig, go find the wax. i always forget the wax to flux. finish my coffee. Now i have to find something to put the junk in. Usually take a soda can and cut it. to pour the junk from the top of the pot. Then the lead is at a good temp to flux. i flux it wait a few minutes stir it again. flux it again. Now the lead looks pure. Crank it from number 9- 7 on the adjustment dial. then i cast about 5 bullets really quick. just pour it. smack the sprue. you can tell the temp by whacking the sprue. Then open the mold sideways to see the bullet. if i dont like it i dump it back in the pot. cast a few more keep looking and dumping. Mold is nice and hot now. so i start casting my keepers. No laddle. just lift the handle. Lead pours out the bottom evenly. hold it over the top at an angle. smack the sprue. The lead falls back in at an angle. ope the mold on a wet cloth. then repeat. Now for hard cast bullets i use a different pot and i dump the bullets in a bucket of ice cold water. only time i stop is when the water warms up. or if i have to put more lead in the pot.

[robert garner]

Use wheelweights or most any alloy of lead you may scrounge, wheelweights have been a favorite of mine for this use for close to forty yrs. Once upon a time they were free for the asking, at most any service station!
Again; your mold was too cold! this alone may account for the descrepancy in the balls weight, cast a couple of hundred, watching your sprue you can actually see the metal harden, then give it a few more seconds, you want the metal to be solid or you may develope a "smear" of lead under the cut off plate,which WILL raise it higher, giving further variation of the ball .
Visually inspect them and send any obviously deformed back to the pot, weigh them, enough to find just what your particular alloy weighs from your mold and segregate out the lighter ones as these will contain air pockets, which will destroy accuracy( have you ever notice how badly a car will vibrate with an unbalanced tire?) Further if you should segregate your heaviest balls you will find these to be the most consistant for accuracy.
Google Beartooth bullets they are advocates of using hardened balls for accuracy! just drop your wheelweight balls into a bucket of chilled water!
DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS IN AN NEGLIGENT MANNER A STEAM EXPLOSION IN A POT OF MOLTEN LEAD IS NOT A SAFE ENTERPRISE , NO MATTER HOW EXCITING IT APPEARS!!!!
While Crisco, and lard will both suffice, my preference is for a mix of Beeswax and olive oil you may substitute parrifin wax for the beeswax if that is more easily obtainable, mix to a consistancy of shoe polish and like shoe polish it will liquify when worked, but not run on a hot day( lol sweden hot?)
Read the stickies heading the blackpowder forum!!!!
robert
My Navy wouldnt use 375 balls as they just fell into the chamber mouth!
went from those to a mold @ 385 Think australian rules football, now i need maybe a 460 or better for my rugers!
Scrat I must defer to your judgement on the Remington design weakness!
We seem to agree on the rest!
r

[scrat]

wheel weights are great for hard cast.

wheel weights contain tin and antinomy. Not pure lead. yet you can cast round balls, conicals and anything with it. Once you go to load a roundball from wheel weights you will know. Its going to be hard to press in. Not good on the gun. Pure lead is what the gun is designed for. I was pressed for some lead one time. so i was at pep boys and talked the service manager into letting me buy some wheel weights. He gave me a 1/2 bucket of old and a box of new wheel weights. The side of the box had the breakdown of the percent of tin and antinomy. Perfect hard cast bullet. NOT pure leat Not good for black powder.

Disagree on that one.

[sundance44s]

I may have gotten a defective electric pot ..at the time I was casting a lot of the heavy 405 gr 45/70 bullets ...takes a lot of lead to do much casting with such a large bullet, don`t know if you`ve ever cast any that large they look like anti tank projectials ...so I kind of blame it not lasting on myself ..I kept the heat cranked up real hot all the time ..If I don`t mess around and take too many smoke breaks I can uasually cast between 450 or 500 round balls out of one of the little propane tanks ..useing a dubble cavity mold .. I can say one thing on the positive side for the Lee electric pot ...it was a lot easyer to keep things cleaned up around ...not near as messy .The wife burns alot of those smelly little candles around the house ...think she is trying to tell me something ..yea probally the dog smells bad .....anyway she gives me that last 1/4 of a candle to use as flux ..makes my casting pot smell real pretty ...LOL

[scrat]

Yep along with casting bullets. i usually save some of the junk you skim off the top. Just the lead part. and then use all the cheap lead. This gets cast once a year for fishing weights. For deep sea, we use anything from number 1-number 6 weight. I also make fishing jigs. The fishing weights take a great deal of lead. HUGE.

[Macmac]

fastson , There are flaws in the 1 ball I can see, which means the mould was cold, and the balls are not well made. I have no problem seeing these balls might be 6/10ths light. None at all.

the hammer probably isn't pure lead either, but is likely soft enough. You could use far harder wheel weights in a 6 gun too, no problem. Atleast that is my opinon. Long guns shooting a patched round ball 'need' soft closer to pure lead, so a patch can bite the ball and the rifling.

I have a EMF 1860 clone and a Ruger Old Army, and cast car wheel weights for them, saving my more pure soft lead for my flinters.

Casting:

1 Make dam sure you are not in a place that 1 single drop of water can fall into the moulten lead! If one does it will end your day in a very bad day. The pot will empty itself in miliseconds! (A shed with a tin roof on a cold day can make rain inside! I had this happen in a barn once, and lucked out being a few steps away.)

2 clean the mould hollows real well, with degreaser to get off any oils where the ball will be poured and away from the areas near the hollows, so the heat doesn't draw oil like solder is drawn to heat.

3 With a candle blacken the hollows well, make them good and dark.

4 (I have no idea what method you melt lead with, I use a woodstove and a cast iron pot)

When the lead is hot and melted, add a grease like cooking fat waste, in about a tea spoon full. This will smoke and be black and stink nasty!

With a long match till you get used to it, light the smoke on fire, to get rid of the stink.

With a stainless steel spoon remove the crud that floats.

5 with a dipper pour a ball, and with a hard woo stick handy, open the mould and tap the mould, so the ball drops in a padded tin tray. That first ball will be bad, and is going in the pot again, and so will the next 10, but not now.

All you are doing is getting the mould to temp. Keep doing that untill you get good balls. make all the good balls you like, but sooner or later the mould will over heat, and you will know when the balls become frosty looking. These are junk too.

6 let the mould cool off a few minutes, and while you wait you can dig out the wrinkley looking balls and with some care drop them into the lead, and add any frosty ones too, and by then see of the mould will cast a nice ball.

If it is wrinkley looking, the mould cooled down a bit too much, and if it is frosty, then it didn't cool off enough.

7 Last, when you are ready to stop, cast one more ball, and just leave it in the mould. Just leave it there, let the mould cool, and store the mould dry.

Grease: We have all kinds of grease to shoot with, but I have no idea what you have. If you have Crisco in the food stores use that. if not and there isn't anything like that, make some.

Use beef, sheep and other food fats you can collect as food waste. If you eat hamburgers for a week and collect the fats, you will have plenty for a days shooting.

1 collect the fats in a tin can for week.

2 dump that mess in a sauce pan with about that same amount in water, and boil it 10 minutes at rapid boil.

3 let it cool well in a refrigerator, until the grease is a light tan/ off white.

If you are smart you will spoon off the oil on top and save that.

Next with a spoon handle make 2 opeings in the grease, and pour off the water.

Drop the hardened grease in another clean container, an let the water dry, flip that grease hunk over to let the other side dry, and then you can use it.

You will have removed the crud, and should have nice clean grease, that you can shoot and coat the gun with to prevent rust.

I would avoid oils made for cars and other machines if I were you. They didn't have a lot of that when your un was made anyway.

[fastson]

Wow thats a lot of replies. Thanks alot guys, now I have something to read. :)

Yes the mould was cold, it was just an attempt to see how things worked. I will redo all the balls if I decide to shoot them.. right now it looks like I'm waiting for the Hornadys, since I will have something to compare with. Thanks for the guide Macmac.

Regarding size, .457 is maybe overdoing it? I ordered some .454 also.

[pohill]

If the chambers are chamferred, (bevelled) the ring that shaves from a .454 might be down inside the chamber, but it will be there. To my way of thinking, a .457 will shave lead, as will a .490, but do you need the extra size if a .454 will work?

[fastson]

pohill: Yes if a .454 works well I'll just go with that. Much easier to press down into the chamber if nothing else. ;)

Sigh, still waiting on that order to be sent, looks like it can take a while.

100 .457 lead balls
100 .454 lead balls
200 Remington #10 PC
1 set of solvents, oils etc.

But.. only the best for my revolver.

:)

[Wildfire]

Hey there:I made one mistake. I said bad bullets do hit very well. Meant to say they do not hit very well.Most here are right the mold was too cold and the fact that the metal is unknown does not help.Wheel weights probably wont hurt the gun, But the reason for the pure lead is to create a better gas seal on the way out the barrel. And wheel weights may be too hard for that and accuracy "may " suufer. The general rule for BP guns is pure lead bullets .

[Perk]

Mentioned, a time ago, that I’d about fifty pounds, or so, of lead in the form of an ingot. What, with Sundance’s announcement of $2.54 per pound – local; figgered ‘D better get the durned thing outta the line o’ site from those who might, otherwise, be of an honest intent.

Ran a steel brush over it, then chose to actually weigh the thing, whilst I was at it. Turns out to be exactly fifty pounds, by the bathroom scale. (Great news for the metal value; also my own guestamountage. Not so much for me own, personal, poundage value, though.)

(* cough *)

The fingernail scale says that this slab’ll work for burnin’ and turnin’. So, must thank all of yuns, fer the particulars, as to how to make the transformation actually come about. Said particulars, involving moulds, fire types and all, such as you have mentioned.

Am getting’, that much, closer to projectile independence, thanks t’ y’all.

Iffin’ ‘M not kilt by such, will be back-lookin’ at the making of coal powders, next.

It’s all good, though. Ride a street bike, too. That’s another thing you shouldn’t try, at home, kids…

Here's a photo of thet slab o' metal:


75404


75405

[Misfire99]

Perk that is an odd shape for lead. Where did it come from? A plumbers pig of lead is much longer and weighs around sixty pounds. I have no idea what a fifty pound brick would be used for other then shielding for Xray or atomic pile.

Sundance44 yea I know what you mean about going through lead in a hurry. I used to use the lee 405 hollow base in my 45/70 but now use the 500gr spitzer. It's pure lead that I cast with but I still water drop them. There is no antimony so they don't harden but they also don't deform from dropping out of the mold onto a hard surface. The water softens the fall and cools the melt right now so they come out look good with no flat spots. And Sundance44 please don't smoke while casting!!! That is a direct route for lead to enter your body. Let alone the damage from smoking.

Fastson Pay attention to what I said about if the ball shaves lead and chambers in the cylinder. If that happens then it's good to go. If it is to hard to shave a ring of lead, please pay attention to how much force you put on the loading lever, then don't shoot it. That's the real test. If it will shave down into the cylinder go for it. If the alloy you have will not do that you still might be able to salvage it by mixing it with pure lead. I would start with three pounds of pure lead to one pound of your unknown alloy. If this still won't chamber cut that with three more pounds but I bet it will work just fine. You also might want to invest in a lead thermometer. This will help you keep track of what temp you molds fill out the best. And have the molds hot before you start casting. I set mine on to of the lead while it's melting. This get it up to temp fast.

[Pancho]

If you want to go through lead fast try running 58 cal. maxiballs.
I've had a Lee production pot for 20 years and my only complaint is the leaky valve.
Here comes a story on myself:
I was casting some bullets and added some lead to fill the pot. After lead had come up to temp. I cast the first bullet and the valve stuck wide open. In a panic I grabbed the first can near at hand to put under the spout. Don't ask me why but the can I grabbed had 4- .22 cal rounds in it. Yep, your right. the rounds started going off splattering lead all over me and my work bench. Scare the crap out me. I'll admit this to the forum because you know by now that I'm not a complete idiot.

[pohill]

Pancho, I don't usually like to laugh at another person's misfortunes, but that description you gave of the .22 rounds going off and all, well, that was funny in a sick, lockerroom kind of way. And believe me, I've done my share of "funny" things. Like last year when I was working on staging on the side of my house, and being afraid of heights, I used a safety harness with a tether. Well, an elderly neighbor of mine pointed out to me the fact that the tether was probably 20 feet long and seeing as I was 15 feet off the ground, it probably wouldn't do me any good if I fell.

[Perk]

Misfire99 – Had a client, who used to have a big, ol’ eucalyptus tree on one spot, in his yard and an old wooden shed in another. Got windy, one day (as it tends to, up here, on a regular basis), and the two ended up sharing the same spot.

Came to find that, at the very bottom of this mess, lay this ingot of lead – mostly buried in the ground. Asked the client about it. He’d no idea where it had come from, but allowed me to take the thing home. Believe lead was worth about thirty-four cents, per pound, at the time. So, this was way back, just a few years ago.

Looks like someone’s home brew lead got mixed into a metal baking pan. Seems to have uniform consistency, though.

And, since we’re sharin’: My folks loved to tell the story of how I discovered spray paint, at a young age. Black, it was. When they first saw me, after the thing went off, they thought I’d gotten a nice shiner, somehow. Since then, it’s just been one success story, after another…

[RugerBob]

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii260/rrmaynard/walker07.jpg
Just wanted to show some lead I came across. Thats my Blackhawk w/7 1/2" barrel.

[RugerBob]

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii260/rrmaynard/lead002.jpg
sorry hit wrong picture.

[Perk]

Well, shucks, those ingots aren't even the size of a maple lea... oh. :D

[Macmac]

Perk's lead appears to me like someone needed a work bench and used a brownie pan to cast one.

I collected lead a while and used a similar pan to redender the stuff to be cleaner and easier to move and store.

I had odd bits of flashing, boat ballast, water pipe and connectiond for water pipe. One hunk of lead had a brass cap about 6 inch diameter wedged in to tight to turn.

There was no reasonable way to stack the this mess, so into a pot it went, and I poured plates about 1/2 as thick as that one shown.

Also added in were bullets other people had given me and I had no gun for, plus lead I get back from shooting it in the first place.

A .600 cal and a .735 cal might not be as big as some, but are some what bigger than most I'ld say.

Perk that wind musta' be blowin some wicket fierce to blow that shed into the tree so hard, that tree cum down!

Pancho, that bit with the 22's somehow seems safer that one drop of water and was a hoot to read.

I did see in my minds eye and today it seems real. I am saying this as i can't really be sure I saw that drop of water fall from the inside of a tin roof in a barn, but I am sure glad, that I was out of range!

That event was very impressive to my alledged mind. It made a nasty mess of things too, but that got cleaned up, and the lead went back into the pot.

You can bank on I look up, before I fire a pot..

[Perk]

Macmac – Part of the problem with the winds, we get up here, is that the Santa Ana’s can come blowing out of the east with sustained force. And, they may keep at it for a few days. This is not good for roofing, in general.

Real problem came in, a few decades ago. Seems some wit decided that importing eucalyptus trees, from Australia, would result in a material, which would be useful in the construction of railroad ties. Stuff grows iron-hard in Australia. In California, not so much. The things grow too fast, out here; making them too brittle to hold up to a harsh blow - especially, one that lasts for a couple of days.

Can make for some interesting riding, on some of our winding roads, right after a windy spell.

So, what kind of candles does one put atop a lead cake, anyway? :D

[scrat]

Perk what part of california you from anyhow

[Perk]

It’s a little place, called Ramona. We’re just northeast of the city of San Diego, in the unincorporated area of San Diego county. The town is actually, mostly, a valley, in the mountains, about 1,400 feet up (1,391 feet, at the airport – which can be important to know).

Looks, absolutely nothing, like the rest of San Diego. Mindset differs, somewhat, too – as one might imagine.

Am given to understand, you’re not that far away from here.

[scrat]

Shoot a couple of hour in a car. But still not bad. We need to find more BP shooters. it sure would be nice to have a meet. Meet up at a range and take it over with black powder shooting.

[Misfire99]

Hey Perk: I forget the man's name but he imported the eucalyptus trees so he could become a lumber baron by selling them to the rail road. Eucalyptus trees grow very fast but the Aussies purposely sold him the wrong type of tree so he wouldn't cut into there export market. Screwed him to the wall. And us along with him. I was from the SF Bay Area and it's all over the Berkeley hills and the bark, they shed their bark, and leaves are poisonous to local plants and animals. So nothing grows under the eucalyptus trees.

Currently there is a big push to get rid of them all and return the land to native plants and trees. But they are everywhere in the hills. Miles and miles of them.

[theotherwaldo]

Something I haven't heard around here is how to sort scavenged lead.
For instance, I noticed someone had some lead water pipe. The pipe itself is pure lead, but the wiped joint (the big bulge) is a good bit harder. I'd cut that joint out and mix it in with the smokeless stuff.

Also, bullets from the backstop can be used with muzzle loaders if you sort them properly. Most jacketed bullets are pure swaged lead under the jackets.

Keep that in mind and you can keep right on feeding your old muzzle-loader.

[Perk]

Scrat – Even less time, by motorcycle. Potentially, one of the reasons for having gotten that shoulder stock. (BP take-down.)

Take over the range, eh? Well, gee, that wouldn’t be very nice to the other fellers, at all… Count me in. :evil:

Misfire99 – The Blunder from Down Under. Blue Gums are always thirsty and shed everything, but lead. And, the oils must be more poisonous than lead. (Trying to keep with the thread, here, guys,) Can’t believe that so much money was invested in importing tiny wasps to kill the mite, which was killing the trees, a few years back.

Don’t know what kind of lead one would use, to shoot the durned things with. Aw, shucks. Going to get in Dutch, again, aren't I? :banghead:

[fastson]

Hey fellas.

I got me lead-balls today, .454 and some caps. Will be shooting soon. :evil:

Btw, I was checking out some BP revolver videos on Youtube and found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSOo-zY0_lc&feature=related

Uh, when my 1858 is half-cocked the drum gets locked in place, it will not move. The guy in the video is able to rotate his cylinder. Is that something which was introduced in the reproductions or is something wrong with my antique? In order to revolve my cylinder I have to slightly pull back the hammer to let the cylinder rotate, half cocked moves the cylinder between two nipples (safety-notch), fully cocked locks it right on a nipple.

[razorback1010]

Uh, when my 1858 is half-cocked the drum gets locked in place, it will not move. The guy in the video is able to rotate his cylinder. Is that something which was introduced in the reproductions or is something wrong with my antique? In order to revolve my cylinder I have to slightly pull back the hammer to let the cylinder rotate, half cocked moves the cylinder between two nipples (safety-notch), fully cocked locks it right on a nipple.
At half-cock, your cylinder should be able to rotate. As your Remmie seems an original and subsequently isn't exactly new, you probably have a worn cylinder bolt. how do you load it ?

[fastson]

razorback1010: I half-cock the pistol, remove the cylinder to the right.

To load the cylinder, I leave the hammer uncocked and just slide the cylinder in from the left.

[Funderb]

just don't breathe the fumes when you cast.
fastest way to lead-poisoning-ville.
seriously, you can eat a lead ball and crap it out and be better off than breathing the fumes of molten lead directly.

[fastson]

just don't breathe the fumes when you cast.
fastest way to lead-poisoning-ville.
seriously, you can eat a lead ball and crap it out and be better off than breathing the fumes of molten lead directly.

No problemo, I will be in a well ventilated area.

[fastson]

So the cylinder-bolt should stay down when the pistol is half-cocked? Mine pops back up. I'll upload a video.

[dwave]

regardless of how many chambers are capped and if they are all capped that's another substantial risk of multiple discharge if something moves around a little too much

I picked this up on the first page and it is bad advice. If you are going to load multiple chambers, CAP THEM ALL! You will have a substantial risk of a chainfire with loaded chambers and no caps on as there is nothing to block the flame of another cap going off.

[razorback1010]

razorback1010: I half-cock the pistol, remove the cylinder to the right.

To load the cylinder, I leave the hammer uncocked and just slide the cylinder in from the left.

I see, it's not bothering you 'cause you're not using the loading lever. Is it your wish to get a perfectly working Remmie with some modern-made replacement parts or to keep a 100 % original with a little problem but that shoots anyway ?

[fastson]

I see, it's not bothering you 'cause you're not using the loading lever. Is it your wish to get a perfectly working Remmie with some modern-made replacement parts or to keep a 100 % original with a little problem but that shoots anyway ?

Oh sorry, I misunderstood you. Yes I use the lever, I thought you meant how I load the cylinder into the gun. :)

Well, I'm not afraid of using new parts. I'll keep the old parts.. To be honest I'd rather wear down new parts than the old ones where its possible.

Regarding the cylinder not spinning freely at half-cock.. could it be that the spring is just too hard? If I remove the cylinder I can with my finger press the cylinder bolt down, not too much power is required.

[fastson]

could it be that the spring is just too hard? If I remove the cylinder I can with my finger press the cylinder bolt down, not too much power is required.

Or is the cylinder bolt worn? Maybe the hammer?

Considering ordering some new stuff from Dixie. Give me some ideas what it could be.

[Misfire99]

The parts are cheap order them all. This saves the original parts for posterity. It a little bit of work to fit the hand but not to much.

[fastson]

Took it apart (thanks to the great guide provided by the forums)

To me everything looks to be in pretty good condition, but I'll let you experts be the judge of that.

http://pici.se/pictures/glrtZGCly.jpg

http://pici.se/pictures/QbqYuCoMG.jpg

http://pici.se/pictures/pwkbNUVjF.jpg

http://pici.se/pictures/MjJkQdLkf.jpg


Hey, maybe I should start a new thread? Perhaps Im going OT too much? What do you mods say? I dont want to litter the forum.

[Macmac]

Damn, is that the real thing? Sure looks like it.

I have been reading, but so far said nothing. I wanted to see where this might go. You can bet there is a few other guys watching too.

I have a few ideas too. The first one is there is nothing wrong, except the first click you can hear is the bolt coming off the cam at the hammer, and you have gone past 1/2 cock, and just can't hear it.

So install the hammer alone, no hand, just the hammer and the screw for it.
Next install the main spring. Set the spring in place with most of the screw not yet turned in, and use the screw to pull the spring in.

Install the bolt, install the trigger. Use the same screws as they were as original if you can. If you don't know look for wear marks and note which screw is which screw there after. Use a black marker if you can't ID these screws anyother way. If some old timer ever worked on these he may have made a Key, (marks to ID which one went where) Look for them.

Next install the dual spring, and snugg the screw.

Looking with a bright light cock the hammer oh about 1,000 times untill you can see the hammer cam, and the bolt work with one another.

Listen for the click in to 1/2 cock, as you watch the trigger drop into the first notch on the hammer. You might not hear it. listem more as you cock the hammer more. Click, did you see that the bolt slipped off the hammer cam and heard that instead?

Add a little masking tape to the side of the hammer. In pencil with the hammer down, follow the line of the frame.

next set the hammer to half cock, making sure the trigger is at the half cock notch, and mark the tape again, making a similar line in a different place.

Cock the hammer more, CLICK hold the hammer there, and make sure you saw the bolt slip off the hammer cam. Do that 10 times and then mark the tape, with the hammer exactly where it is when the bolt slips off the hammer cam.

Next and last set the hammer to full cock and mark that in pencil as before.

Last post a pic like that..

If this is a real original, don't play guessing games. Do Not file, sand, and shape stuff, not yet anyway. I am none to sure euro clone parts will work and I am pretty sure no screws will either!

Don't get in a hurry, don't get frustrated.

I would like better shots of that hammer cam, to see th top. That cam should have a square shoulder even though the cam is round.

The bolt needs to ride up on that cam with out slipping off, to a certain point. That point should be after 1/2 cock.

Do those Snap On screw drivers indicate you are or were a car tech?

If I knew that, it might help, and you really should invest in the proper screw drivers made for guns for this gun.. The blades on those drivers are about as much like a gun screw driver as a allen is torx...

[theotherwaldo]

My suggestion is that you carefully clean the bolt and the cam that's on the side of the hammer, the cavity that the bolt rides in, and the interior of the receiver before you do anything else. There's enough friction there to mess up the mechanism's timing. Hoppe's #9 and a t-shirt, plus a few popsicle sticks should do the trick.

Then you should be able to tell what's going on.

My bet, though, is that the camming surface of the bolt is so worn that it slides off of the hammer's cam too early. That may be fixed by bending that finger of the bolt toward the hammer's cam.
That's what I had to do about twenty-five years ago with a similar gun, and it worked properly right up until Dad sold it.

Good luck!

[zxcvbob]

I just bought 75 pounds of pure lead ingots at the junk yard today; it cost a little more than I'd liked, 80¢ per pound. But it is already in clean 3# ingots that will fit in my lead pot, so that's worth something. There's another 45 pounds of 'em available. I'm not sure if I'll go back for 'em or not. I'm still getting some lead for free...

[theotherwaldo]

On careful study of your photos, it looks like the actuating finger on the bolt may be damaged by someone rocking the hammer back and forth without quite engaging half cock. That eats away a little bit of the end of the bolt finger and puts the bolt out of time. If that's true you may have to either get another bolt or reshape the end of your old one.

Again, Good Luck!

BTW, a buck a pound is the going price in most places for pure lead.

[fastson]

Macmac: Thats some good advice, thanks a lot. Dont worry, I'm very careful with this old gun. I do not want to ruin it in any way. If it comes down to filing on parts I'd rather buy new parts from Dixie Guns.

I will try to provide better pics soon. I put the gun back together last night so I'll have to strip it back down again. :)

Do those Snap On screw drivers indicate you are or were a car tech?

I'm a industrical mechanic. The snap-on screwdrivers fit very well, but I'll check out and see if I can find any gun screw drivers from Dixie. The screws were not tightened very much so I had no problem unsrewing any of the screws. The only screw which was damaged (by one of the previous owners, mind) was the screw holding the trigger and bolt spring.

[scrat]

75lbs at 80 cents a lbs is not that bad. heck thats a good find.