[Daniel]

would you?

If you were permitted to own and carry a modern machine pistol or smg, permitted by our masters; like the pets that most of us are: Would you carry one (compared to a semi- or a revo)?

I am REALLY interested in your thoughts on this.

[ThePerfectOne]

the only full-auto I would "consider" to carry (if I was allowed to - f***ing Belgian laws- ) is a Glock 18, or a Glock 17 with that special clip build in.

all the rest is too big and heavy for CCW.

[Lone_Gunman]

You are joking, right? Man, where do you live where you think that would be necessary?

I am not opposed to someone owning, and carrying a full auto, any more than any other gun. If somebody is going to shoot me, it doesnt make that much difference to me what they use.

No, I dont think I would carry a full auto.

[rick_reno]

I went shooting once with a friends father and his Class 3 dealer in Az. The dealer carried a supressed HK MP5K in his car. It was one of many full auto guns he brought out to the desert for us to fool around with.

[WESHOOT2]

One of our members brought his (FBI-issued) 10mm H&K for an IPSC match; he got cooked.

Prefer carrying 'regular' handguns............:D

[antsi]

No. Couple reasons:

For personal/family defense, in most situations, I'd be concerned about "collateral damage" with full auto. If I shoot innocent bystanders defending myself from a violent felon, I am really just adding to the death toll of his criminal acts.

Second, a reasonable ammo load-out for full auto would be prohibitively large heavy and inconvenient for daily carrry.

If you're talking about SHTF, collapse of social order, end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it scenarios, then maybe a SMG or a true assault rifle would have its place. But for personal defense in an ordered society, I just don't see it.

[CleverNickname]

No, for both reasons that ansti listed. Plus the SMG I do own (an Uzi) is too damn big to carry concealed, even though I legally could.

[Blackhawk]

Nope.

Each SD shot needs to be precisely placed.

Auto is fine for supressive fire, which just doesn't enter into SD situations where ammo is limited in the best case scenario.

[Marko Kloos]

Outside of use in HMGs, GPMGs, and LMGs/SAWs, full-auto fire is generally a waste of ammunition. It doesn't work like it does in the movies.

[JHP147]

They are too big unless you are real big and it is real cold...right?:D

[standingbear]

shot a full auto mac 11,seems it only took a few seconds and it was empty..what a thrill.rate of fire much too quick.as far as size?the thing is slightly bigger than a 1911.not a good choice unless bigfoot is after you and you cant run any faster than you can reload those mags.

[SIGarmed]

A big yes. When you're talking pistol cartridges a real smg can't be beat.

[Blueduck]

Not even the slightest interest in one for CCW. Even in a SHTF scenario I'd have no use for one.

JMHO, Full auto is fantastic when your talking about a belt fed weapon being fed by an entire supply line. One guy carrying a limited supply of ammo in 20-30 round "rrriiiippp-click-"'s not that impressive or usefull.

[jsalcedo]

I don't know about everyone else but of the dozen or so sub machine guns I've tried have been very easy to keep on target.

The spray and pray is for amateurs IMO.

To be honest I have never missed the target while firing full auto bursts.

To answer the question yes I would carry a stechkin machine pistol or possibly a skorpion. In fact there is nothing in the CCW
law here in Texas that says I can't.

However. If the SHTF and you used a machine pistol to defend your life I can't see the prosecutors letting it go unpunished

[rick458]

while I would not carry it concealed
I would dearly love to have a 1921 OR a 1928 Thompson Submachine Gun with a good Cutts and the forward handle
and a well stocked Dillon 1050 in .45 acp

[Jeff OTMG]

Test, it didn't work and lost my post

[denfoote]

Yup, and it would be an HK MP5K!!!!!

[Yuck Mouth]

Beretta 93R Machine Pistol.

http://www.impactsites2000.com/site3/images/bereta93.jpg http://www.impactsites2000.com/site3/images2/b93.jpg http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun/firearms/pistol/img/ber93r.jpg http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun/firearms/pistol/img/ber93r_st.jpg

[hansolo]

I think Furio will be bringing one of these bad boys back from Sicily to Jersey on next season's Sopranos.

BADA-BING! :scrutiny:

[Selfdfenz]

Possibly something with a 3 shot burst option.
Otherwise it would be a situation specific kind of thing would it not.
Never fire or handled one but those CZ Scorpions are cool looking and small, however, I can't see having one on my person a lot of the time. Carring enough ammo would be an issue.
S-

[Joe Demko]

Worked for Robocop, didn't it? Of course, I'd also want hydaulically powered arms and hands and computer-enhanced aiming. The abillity to holster inside my leg would also be cool.

[Soap]

I would carry 2 Micro Uzis, 2 Czech Skorpions, and 4 Beretta 92s for backup. Then I would wear all black and some really trick Airwalk boots. After that, I would train so I could jump off of the walls of the Federal Reserve ;)

Seriously, full auto is completely impractical for any sort of civilian defense. Many times, SMGs and machine pistols are even impractical for wartime defensive situations. Carrying, or considering carrying, a full auto machine pistol puts one in the realm of fantasy. And it may put one in the realm of Problem #2 (when you're in court).

[762x51]

HK PDW and a Beretta 93R for backup. :evil:

[Hkmp5sd]

I have a shoulder holster for my Cobray M11/9 submachinegun ala the Chuck Norris/Invasion USA type. It's actually pretty functional and does a good job helping with recoil.

Don't really want to carry it as a CCW weapon though.

[Chris Rhines]

Dan -

Don't forget to specify the custom CZ-61s rechambered in 5.56mm NATO. Or the RLX shades...

- Chris

[Flying V]

If NFA were magically wiped away, I'd go up in bore size instead of up in ROF. I would feel well armed with something like Bowen's 577 Redhawk.

[SkunkApe]

Jeff Cooper's Commentaries
Vol. 1, No. 1 June 1993

"I suppose nothing can be done about the erroneous assumption that hand held fully automatic fire is somehow more efficient than aimed fire. As I used to demonstrate, when I had a teaching job, quick semi-automatic fire is far more likely to produce results than bursts. Thus the preoccupation of the Feds with the idea that is it somehow an offense against God and man to convert a semi-automatic weapon to a fully automatic capacity is simply a manifestation of ignorance. If a man is shooting at me, I would much prefer that he were on full auto than carefully holding and squeezing. The automatic option is the greatest encourager of the spray-and-pray technique, which I have long done my best to discourage."

-Jeff Cooper

[M1911]

Full auto pistols like the Glock 18 are great range toys. Quite cool. But not terribly useful for defensive purposes, IMHO. A carbine, on the other hand, whether pistol caliber or .223, is an entirely different matter altogether. Carbines are much easier to hit with than a pistol. .223 caliber carbines have much more stopping power than pistols and apparently don't have anymore overpenetration issues than pistols (when used with the proper ammo).

Of course, I can't carry an AR15. Too big to be concealed, the sheeple would get frightened if I walked into the store with on slung over my back, and here in MA, it is actually illegal to do so.

[krept]

Yep, and it would be one of those cool new FN ones that shoot the pinner bullets.

Heck, I'd like to have a suppressed UMP but that's a little big for EDC. ;)

Doubtless what the crew or the Col. says, FA has it's place.

[DonP]

Sure, there are very few scenarios where anyone would really need that level of firepower and concealability, outside of the Secret Service of course. Or someone that had to drive through a really bad neighborhood where drive-by's and carjackings were a common occurence and where the folks on the street had comparable auto or semi-auto firepower. But other than those situations ...

But ... as long as we're in the right Fantasyland mode.

Probably a VZ-61 (.32 cal.) or VZ-63 (.380 cal.) Skorpion or maybe a H&K MP7 in 9 mm with the wet supressor option. After all, no sense in waking up the neighbors just to take care of an unruly possum late at night, right?

Don P.

[NewShooter78]

A big no for CCW, but I wouldn't mind having a select fire MP5 in the trunk, supressor optional of course. But for SHTF, I wouldn't mind having an AR15 with a grenade launcher on it. I think the grenade lauching ability and aimed fire would be preferable to full auto spray and pray.

[Jason Demond]

I would take the Glock 18 for the cool factor. I have seen one work up close, and it was sweet!:what:

[M1911]

Doubtless what the crew or the Col. says, FA has it's place.Krept, my problem with something like the Glock 18 is that with a 17 round mag in the gun and two more on your belt, you'll be out of ammo in a hurry on FA, and you won't hit anything that isn't real close.

[krept]

:D Yeah. If its hard to control, it's a big detriment. If it isn't select fire, that would be a bummer. I realize what everyone is saying, but it's all about how you employ the weapon.

jsalcedo said To be honest I have never missed the target while firing full auto bursts.

That's the thing, it's the bursts. People (with big grins, mind you) frequently squeeeeeeeeeeze and don't let go of the trigger. Spray and pray. Well, I'm sure you guys know how to shoot full auto it's like preaching to the choir. I guess it's also about the platform. The G18 (even comped?) is probably at the very edge of controllability, but when you increase the size and weight of the platform and shrink the bullet you come back closer to the practical end of things. MP5 and the UMP are great lauching platforms for their respective bullet, IMO. Same with that FN PDW (can't remember the name) that happens to take the same ammo as the pistol... 5.7mm? Each round might not do very good, but a quick burst of 3 or so would probably be effective and relatively easy to control with practice.

Still, the tools we have now are fine for what we use them for. That's why I'm not in a rush to buy a full auto.

Cheers

[Kobun]

If you tune a Glock trigger, polish a little here and some there, you might end up with what a friend of mine got:

A two shot burst trigger. One shot as trigger was pulled, and one as he released the trigger.
BA-BAM!
He got a new one and didn't polish that much on the next one.
Might bring that trigger for carry in some not-as-developed-countries. ;)
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=43854

[DrDremel]

I'd carry my S&W 76. It is legal in Michigan with a CCW licence. It is rather large for all day wear though.

[Soap]

DonP- If you feel that it would work for you, go for it. Just carry the current Secret Service issue right into Evanston (or as my friends call it, E-Town ;)) and see what happens. Even if you could, would you want to try and shoot a BG armed with a knife whose back is say facing a major roadway or street with a Skorpion? I personally would be a little worried about collateral damage and Problem #2.

[Jeff OTMG]

In Texas a full auto is legal for concealed carry WITHOUT a permit. It falls into the same classification as rifles and shotguns. Here the permit is only for handguns.

Now is it a good idea? Probably not since you are liable for any damage caused by a bullet you send down range.

There would be a number of subgun's suitable for this. The Micro Uzi, H&K MP5K or PDW, Beretta M12, Ruger MP9, Skorpion, BXP, or Steyr TMP along with the machine pistols like the Glock 18, Beretta 93R, or H&K VP70M.

[Kahr carrier]

Glock 18 for fantasy land. Glock 21 real world -controlled and aimed fire.:)

[yorec]

I wouldn't on a serious regular basis, but I've been knows to carry oddguns on a lark before - just because I could...

So make mine a pair of Uzi machine pistols hanging from shoulder straps inside my Tuxedo. Make it in .40 S&W and we'll have a winner. Dreamworld, right?

[M1911]

I'd carry my S&W 76. It is legal in Michigan with a CCW licence. It is rather large for all day wear though.Shot one of those at S&W Academy a while back. Interesting gun. Trigger was a bit heavy, IIRC.

It's my understanding that in Maine with a CCW you can carry anything you want, including full-auto. HK PDW might be a bit more practical for concealed carry than the S&W 76 though :cool:

[TheeBadOne]

In truth there isn't much use for full-auto for SD. All full-auto does is give you an empty gun fast and unaccounted for rounds down range. Granted, it's a blast to shoot, but other than that not much use. Soldiers carry large amounts of ammo slung all over their body and have need for suppressive fire. SD use has neither. The good old AR-15/M-16 is a good example. Put targets out at 15 yrds, 50 yrs, 75 yrs, and 100 yrds. Engage them quickly with full-auto, then semi-auto. You'll quickly see which is more effective. I'm not saying whether someone should be able to own one or not. If it's a SHTF scenario I'd take one, but then again I'd have all that ammo and not be worried about round accountability.

[MarineTech]

Considering I'd want to keep things small, light, and concealable, I'd have to take one of these:

Ruger MP9
HK PDW
Sites Spectre
Steyr TMP
Mini-Uzi

[Blackjack_21]

I'd skip the full-auto noise and pick a Beretta M93R. They're set for semi or three-round burst, and that's plenty. You've got ten bursts before the mag goes empty, and if you can't get the job done with that, you should really go back and reconsider your training regimen. :D

[firestar]

Yes!

Not on my body but in my car. You never know when you might have to clear a mob out of your way so you can get home and check THR!:D

[HS/LD]

A select fire MP5K SD.
The perfect car gun.

Pulling that from the seat next to you means...

More powerful than a 1911.
Able to shoot more crooks than a Glock 17.
And its an H&K!

Super quick 'double-taps'!
Super quick 'triple-taps'!
And it wont hurt your ears.

Regards,
HS/LD

[Joe Demko]

More powerful than a 1911.

I don't think so.

[guy sajer]

I have fired the 93R . Using the shoulder stock , it isn't too hard to manage .

The Stetchkin has definately more bounce .

[krept]

A select fire MP5K SD.
The perfect car gun.

almost... the biggest problem is that it's only a 9mm...

A suppressed UMP .45 would be just the ticket. Plus, you use the same bullets as your tactical 1911. ;)

[blades67]

HK MP5K-PDW or the new HK PDW would be my first choices.

[New_comer]

Concealed carry wouldn't be a problem with an HK like this :
http://www.hkpro.com/image/mp5kbriefcase.jpg
http://www.hkpro.com/mp5kbrieffire.jpg

I LIKE!!!:D:D:D

[SIC TRANSIT GLORIA MUNDI]

I suppose an M3 might do the trick.

[spankaveli]

New_comer's choice wins my vote. :eek: :cool:

[Blackhawk]

No.

FA is good for suppressive fire during team or squad sized operations, aerial gunnery, transport vehicle armament, and not much else.

[Schuey2002]

Yes!!

Just because a weapon can fire "full-auto" doesn't mean that you have to fire it in full-auto mode. It's just nice to have that option ...;)

The gun? Anything H&K..:D

[guy sajer]

Sorry it's not a handgun .Almost .
If I could fit this in a fanny pack , I'd carry it:D

It's called select fire because you have a choice . You may never need the FA position on your selector .
But it's fun to rock-n-roll :neener:

[TheMariner]

Blackjack_21, the 93 carries 20+1... at 3 round burst, that is 7 bursts instead of ten...

What would I carry if I could full auto... TMP... or UMP45 with shoulder strap and hide it under a trench coat.

[CZF]

Interesting post, i'd opt for the CZ75 machine pistol.
No larger than a 75B, nasty looking extended barrel!!
The CZ Skorp is also very nice. ever watch Blade 2??


Brrrrrrrrrrp!!

[Admiral Thrawn]

Nope. Waste of ammo and uncontrolled (+ inaccurate); semi-auto is much preferred for SD.

However, a good car gun or two would be nice. An assault rifle (Colt M4 Carbine or Colt Commando) or submachinegun (H&K MP5 or UMP45) and a semi-auto shotgun (Benelli M1 or M3) plus a Level IIIA vest. :)

[Poohgyrr]

You know what, Rick458's post, back on Jan 12th, brought a smile to my face. I'd like a Tommy gun myself. Not for carry exactly, but it just somehow seems right. :)

For general purpose SD use, I do prefer something like an M4, which won't happen here. Single shot effectiveness with the right ammo. The accuracy of a long arm. Effective businesslike appearance that likely stops the problem before you have to shoot.

But living in CA, I'm forced to use noisey old fashioned one ounce slugs in my Remington. :).........

[cool45auto]

93R for me thanks.:evil:

[George Hill]

Uzi for me... Thanks. I think the Beretta is nice, but it's only burst. If I can pack a full auto... I want a full auto.

Make mine a Micro-Uzi with a suppressor and a folding stock.
Thanks.

[Yo]

HK PDW (variant of MP7) -- Nothing else even close.

http://www.gurpsmaster.de/hkpdw.jpg
http://cn.geocities.com/ricky333222/HK_mp7/mp7_pos1.jpg
http://cn.geocities.com/ricky333222/HK_mp7/mp7_pos2.jpg
http://cn.geocities.com/ricky333222/HK_mp7/mp7_pos3.jpg
http://cn.geocities.com/ricky333222/HK_mp7/PDWr_1.jpg

[uglymofo]

If I had muscles, and was allowed to 'carry', this would be my full-auto handgun...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p30b023f4d46bc833ee2b0a2622965e22/fc43f1f3.jpg

[New_comer]

Like Ah-nold, eh? :p ;) :D

[Erik]

Nope. I cannot imagine a scenario where a full-auto pistol would get me through a situation in which rapid, aimed fire from a semi-auto pistol would fail me.

[Dr.Rob]

I spent some range time packing an Uzi in a destantis secret service shoulder holster, neat but man was it HEAVY.

Still, a 5.45 mm Krinkov or 9mm Bizon would be cool to own.

Yeah, put me down for a Bizon and two spare 50 round helical mags. (would be fun for IDPA, no?)

[amprecon]

I don't know if Daniel implied that it had to be concealed carry in his original post, but if NFA rules went away I would find a late production Thompson "Tommy-gun" with the fixed firing pin and right side cocking handle.

It'd probably spend most of the time in my truck, but I've just always been fascinated by them. I have yet to pick one up let alone shoot one, but I bet it's a real kick.

I've seen them shoot them on the History Channel and they don't look too uncontrollable, that thing throws a crap load of lead in short order. I bet with practice it could stitch a BG without many misses.

[guy sajer]

Practice makes perfect . :D