Cugir Factory to shut down AK production?


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buck00
March 26, 2008, 05:22 PM
This could be speculation or perhaps intended to create panic-buying, but this is the latest from the Classicarms guy. Is the Romanian AK pipeline in danger of drying up?? Are we going to see WASRs going for $500 someday? :eek:

I have to hear your thoughts on this. There are enough AK lovers here to be concerned about this.


http://www.classicarms.us/

WHAT IS GOING ON WITH AK RIFLES?.
THE AK RIFLE MARKET HAS BEEN CRAZY OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS, AND FOR GOOD REASON. I HAVE KNOWN WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES WERE THAT HAS CREATED THIS SITUATION BUT WAS NOT AT LIBERTY TO POST AN EXPLIANATION UNTIL NOW. THIS IS THE STORY AS I UNDERSTAND IT.
THE MAIN SOURCE OF AK RIFLES INTO THE U.S. OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS HAS BEEN THE COUNTRY OF ROMAINIA AND PARTICULLARLY THE CUGIR FACTORY WHICH WAS A STATE RAN MANUFACTURING PLANT. THEY HAD CONTRACTS WITH THE IMPORTERS HERE AND WERE BUILDING AK RILES FOR EXPORT TO THE CIVILIAN U.S. MARKET.OVER THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS THEY HAVE SHIPPED THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF AK RIFLES INTO THE U.S.
FOR SOME TIME NOW ROMAINIA HAS DESIRED AND BEEN PETITIONING TO BECOME A NATO MEMBER NATION. ONE OF THIER ROADBLOCKS HAS BEEN THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE BEEN PRODUCING LOW PRICED AK RIFLES FOR EXPORT ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY TO THE U.S. CIVILIAN MARKET. I AM TOLD THAT THE POWERS THAT BE IN WASHINGTON HAD MADE IT CLEAR THAT AS LONG AS THEY CONTINUED THIS FOR PROFIT "PROLIFERATION" OF AK RIFLES INTO THE U.S. THAT THE U.S. WOULD CONTINUE TO OPPOSE THEIR ENTRY INTO NATO. FRANKLY THERE IS NOTHING NEW ABOUT THAT AND THEY CONTINUED TO BUILD FOR A LONG TIME SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY NEEDED THE CASH FLOW THAT THE SALES OF THE RIFLES PROVIDED. THAT IS UNTIL RECENTLY. LATE LAST YEAR A MAJOR AUTOMOBILE MANUFACTURER SET UP A NEW FACTORY IN ROMAINIA. THEY COULD NOT DO ALL OF THE WORK IN HOUSE AND DECIDED TO JOBBER OUT BUILDS ON SOME OF THEIR STEEL PARTS TO A NEARBY FACTORY. WHEN CUGIR WAS APPROACHED WITH THIS OPPORTUNITY TO RE-TOOL AND MAKE AUTO PARTS INSTEAD OF RIFLES THEY JUMPED AT IT. IT SOLVED THEIR POLITICAL DELIMMA WHILE ALLOWING THEM TO MAINTAIN A REVENUE FLOW. AS OF ABOUT 45 DAYS AGO THE CUGIR FACTORY IS DONE WITH FIREARMS MANUFACTURING AND ALL OF THE ROMAINIAN AK PRODUCTS ARE DRYING UP FAST.
ON ANOTHER FRONT. CENTURY ARMS HAS HAD AN ONGOING AND VERY SUCCESSFUL PROJECT GOING WITH THEIR YUGO B-1 AND AB-2 AK BUILD RIFLES. UNFORTUNATELY THERE WERE ONLY A FINITE NUMBER OF KITS TO BUILD THESE RIFLES WITH AND THOSE KITS ARE NOW EXHAUSTED. CENTURY'S YUGO RIFLE PROJECT IS NOW DONE. AS I WRITE THIS WE NOW ARE OUT OF THE UNDERFOLD RIFLES AND ONLY HAVE LESS THAN 100 OF THE B-1 RIFLES IN STOCK.
SO WHAT DOES THE FUTURE HOLD?. MY EDUCATED GUESS IS THAT WE WILL SOON SEE SOME U.S. MADE AK RIFLES COMING TO THE MARKET. BY THAT I DON'T MEAN ENOUGH PARTS TO BE U.S. COMPLIANT, BUT COMPLETELY MADE IN THE UNITEDS STATES. THE PROBLEM IS THAT SINCE NO MORE PART SETS CAN BE IMPORTED INTO THE COUNTRY WITH BARRELS INTACT, AND SINCE THERE AREN'T THAT MANY PARTS SETS LEFT HERE WITH BARRELS, THEN ANY NEW BUILDS WILL ALSO HAVE TO HAVE U.S. BARRELS. COMBINE THAT WITH ADDITIONAL U.S. PARTS, FURNITURE AND U.S. LABOR. AND YOU HAVE A VERY EXPENSIVE U.S. MADE AK RIFLE. I WOULD ALSO GUESS THAT MOST IF NOT ALL OF THESE RIFLES WOULD HAVE TO HAVE SOME TYPE OF POLY STOCK SINCE WOOD STOCKS MADE IN THE U.S. WOULD BE COST PROHIBITIVE. UNFORTUATELY WHEN THESE LAST IMPORTS SELL OUT I REALLY THINK THE DAYS OF THE INEXPENSIVE AK RIFLE ARE GONE.
NONE OF THIS TAKES INTO ACCOUNT THE CURRENT POLITICAL CLIMATE AND THE FACT THAT WE SIMPLY DON'T HAVE A STRONG PRO-GUN CANDIDATE LEFT IN THE RACE. THIS TOO DOES NOT BODE WELL FOR THE FUTURE OF THESE TYPES OF RIFLES.

FORTUNATELY WE STILL HAVE A FEW AK RIFLES LEFT IN STOCK AND WE ARE DOING OUR BEST TO HOLD THE PRICE. BUT DON'T WAIT. THEY ARE SELLING FAST. SEE A COMPLTETE LISTING OF OUR AVAILABLE AK RIFLES BELOW.

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Cmdr. Gravez0r
March 26, 2008, 05:43 PM
Let me get this straight...

According to Ben, the U.S. government is using the LEGAL importation of AK kits as a weapon against the Romainians? *Straps on tin-foil hat and cinches*

I want names of the ***** in our gov't who are using these types of elitist NWO tactics.

Animal Mother
March 26, 2008, 06:00 PM
This is what I found over at Ak47.net. I am not vouching for or against the veracity of the original poster.

Originally Posted By Exothermia:
Cugir of Romania is not closed. It was bought. The government of Romania owned Cugir from their communist days and it has now been privatized. As a result they are now taking orders for NATO weapons in 5.56 and 7.62 NATO for other countries. They will not stop selling us guns as the American civilian market makes up a huge portion of their exports. But they may be delayed or increased in price because of filling other contracts.

Here's a link to a news article about it:

http://romaniandaily.ro/cat30760/112488546840133062/

Technosavant
March 26, 2008, 06:47 PM
I'd love the opportunity to get a US made AK. I figure they could still use foreign-sourced bolts and bolt carriers, as well as magazines, but I'm not sure why an AK with a US made receiver, FCG, barrel, gas tube, and furniture would run more than an AR of midlevel quality (as in Bushmaster and so on, not as in Colt and LMT). I'd expect higher quality out of it than we generally see in current parts kit builds anyway.

teombe
March 26, 2008, 07:07 PM
You can get US-made AKs built from new parts kits... but they'll run you about $900 or so.

http://www.countryboyartillery.com/images/sn_articles/ID059/thumbs/RJYugo6_thumb.jpg

marshall3
March 26, 2008, 07:21 PM
A local gun store in Chattanooga sells WASRs for $500 already. Prices ARE on the rise.

Evil Monkey
March 26, 2008, 08:09 PM
As a result they are now taking orders for NATO weapons in 5.56 and 7.62 NATO for other countries. They will not stop selling us guns as the American civilian market makes up a huge portion of their exports.

Higher quality 5.56mm AK's soon?:evil::evil::evil::evil::evil:

rbernie
March 26, 2008, 08:32 PM
Higher quality 5.56mm AK's soon?It's called a Saiga.

armoredman
March 26, 2008, 08:42 PM
Can't buy anything until June, hope something is left!

kcmarine
March 26, 2008, 08:51 PM
I'd expect higher quality out of it than we generally see in current parts kit builds anyway.

Saiga, my good man. Brand new and built on the same machines that make the AK-100 series weapons for the Russian Army.

Animal Mother
March 26, 2008, 09:44 PM
:what:BS Alert!:what:


I like Ben over at Classic Arms, but I was doing a little digging and Romania joined NATO years ago in 2004. Hardly a political dilemma in 2008. Maybe he just got some bad info.

teombe
March 26, 2008, 10:27 PM
There's actually a NATO summit this weekend in Bucharest.

nalioth
March 26, 2008, 11:03 PM
Keep in mind that Romania is also a member of the EU (http://geography.about.com/od/lists/a/eumembers.htm).

This is nothing but another log on the "buy it before it's gone" fire (while we raise prices [ but don't really want to])

TexasRifleman
March 26, 2008, 11:15 PM
If they are all like my WASR 10 then it's just as well the place closes down.........

rangerruck
March 26, 2008, 11:21 PM
also , this plant makes the stg 2000 and the 2000-c's. they come in 762.39, 556, 762.54, and 762 nato. Since I have two unconverted Saigas in the first two, I may have to get the two latter.
So since they are brand new being imported by InterOrdinance, i would doubt that they are closing this plant down.

kcmarine
March 26, 2008, 11:21 PM
A vote is like a rifle; Its usefulness depends upon the character of the user

If they are all like my WASR 10 then it's just as well the place closes down.........

Win much?


lol... Sorry, just had to. Not calling you useless, just noticed the irony.


We now return to your regularly scheduled thread.

TexasRifleman
March 26, 2008, 11:26 PM
Sorry, just had to. Not calling you useless, just noticed the irony.

Well personally I think it's a stretch to call this WASR of mine a "rifle".

Paperweight maybe, noise maker probably, but at 8-10MOA it doesn't really qualify as a "rifle".

JLBennett
March 27, 2008, 01:52 AM
Not sure what the real deal is, Romania has been a NATO member since 3/29/04....

Don't Tread On Me
March 27, 2008, 06:52 AM
I was totally turned off by the Romanian AK's when the SAR-1 (superior to the WASR cut-outs) began exceeding $350. The idea is, you give up fit, finish and feel as well as some trigger-slap and other annoyances to get a dirty cheap rifle that works. Bump the prices up, and well it's just not worth it.

Should have bought a few more when they were $275. And that was the gun-show pricing around here, which is always marked up well beyond market norms.

WASR for $500?!? Ridiculous. Sounds to me like we're going to see a whole lot more "Which AR should I buy" threads pretty soon as many in the AK camp are going to start converting over.

Those that got guns will keep them and likely never need to replace them. But for the younger guys reading up on the web and getting all psyched up to buy their first "EBR" the AK is losing ground due to all this import nonsense and scarcity.

Of course, there are still Arsenal's out there. They've doubled in price too, but at least you're getting a top-notch AK for roughly the price of a decent AR-15.


Good for domestic builders of AR-15's and all the companies selling gizmos and accessories (massive market right now) ...bad for the consumer who wants the AK platform in a package finished a little better and not outrageously priced.


Last option is really the Saiga. Great rifle. Caveat of course is you must convert it and that is an obsticle for a lot of people despite the process being quite simple and easy. Again, you get a top-notch AK, but you trade low price for the hassle of buying the parts and gunsmithing it yourself.

rbernie
March 27, 2008, 09:35 AM
Paperweight maybe, noise maker probably, but at 8-10MOA it doesn't really qualify as a "rifle".
Heh.

Bet you'd get 6MOA if you fed it decent ammo.

:neener:

strat81
March 27, 2008, 10:58 AM
I like Ben over at Classic Arms, but I was doing a little digging and Romania joined NATO years ago in 2004. Hardly a political dilemma in 2008. Maybe he just got some bad info.
Yup, Romania joined in '04. More unprofessional behavior from Classic Arms. :(

I suppose if you can't type using paragraphs and upper and lower case letters, you can't do a Google search about Romania and NATO.

MD_Willington
March 27, 2008, 04:41 PM
You don't have to convert a Saiga all the way to AK form to use high caps, and it makes a decent trunk gun in OEM format.

bl4ckd0g
March 28, 2008, 03:34 AM
You just got a shovelful of BS.

Beagle-zebub
March 28, 2008, 03:45 AM
I think he, or whoever he got that story from, might have meant the EU instead of NATO--I could see how they have joined or hope to soon get in on the EUtopia, and the EU seems like a much more likely culprit of being jerks about that. What that other country that recently had to grind up those beautiful piles of Makarovs?

Either way, Bulgaria just joined the EU, and we're still gettin' guns from Arsenal.

nalioth
March 28, 2008, 04:17 AM
I think he, or whoever he got that story from, might have meant the EU instead of NATO--I could see how they have joined or hope to soon get in on the EUtopia, and the EU seems like a much more likely culprit of being jerks about that.
The Cugir factory is no longer government owned. They are taking new work (not arms related) which may cause some shuffling.

MudPuppy
March 28, 2008, 11:43 AM
This was posted up to classicarms.us (sorry if its old news and sorry about the caps)


WHAT IS GOING ON WITH AK RIFLES?.
THE AK RIFLE MARKET HAS BEEN CRAZY OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS, AND FOR GOOD REASON. I HAVE KNOWN WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES WERE THAT HAS CREATED THIS SITUATION BUT WAS NOT AT LIBERTY TO POST AN EXPLIANATION UNTIL NOW. THIS IS THE STORY AS I UNDERSTAND IT.
THE MAIN SOURCE OF AK RIFLES INTO THE U.S. OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS HAS BEEN THE COUNTRY OF ROMAINIA AND PARTICULLARLY THE CUGIR FACTORY WHICH WAS A STATE RAN MANUFACTURING PLANT. THEY HAD CONTRACTS WITH THE IMPORTERS HERE AND WERE BUILDING AK RILES FOR EXPORT TO THE CIVILIAN U.S. MARKET.OVER THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS THEY HAVE SHIPPED THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF AK RIFLES INTO THE U.S.
FOR SOME TIME NOW ROMAINIA HAS DESIRED AND BEEN PETITIONING TO BECOME A NATO MEMBER NATION. ONE OF THIER ROADBLOCKS HAS BEEN THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE BEEN PRODUCING LOW PRICED AK RIFLES FOR EXPORT ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY TO THE U.S. CIVILIAN MARKET. I AM TOLD THAT THE POWERS THAT BE IN WASHINGTON HAD MADE IT CLEAR THAT AS LONG AS THEY CONTINUED THIS FOR PROFIT "PROLIFERATION" OF AK RIFLES INTO THE U.S. THAT THE U.S. WOULD CONTINUE TO OPPOSE THEIR ENTRY INTO NATO. FRANKLY THERE IS NOTHING NEW
ABOUT THAT AND THEY CONTINUED TO BUILD FOR A LONG TIME SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY NEEDED THE CASH FLOW THAT THE SALES OF THE RIFLES PROVIDED. THAT IS UNTIL RECENTLY. LATE LAST YEAR A MAJOR AUTOMOBILE MANUFACTURER SET UP A NEW FACTORY IN ROMAINIA. THEY COULD NOT DO ALL OF THE WORK IN HOUSE AND DECIDED TO JOBBER OUT BUILDS ON SOME OF THEIR STEEL PARTS TO A NEARBY FACTORY. WHEN CUGIR WAS APPROACHED WITH THIS OPPORTUNITY TO RE-TOOL AND MAKE AUTO PARTS INSTEAD OF RIFLES THEY JUMPED AT IT. IT SOLVED THEIR POLITICAL DELIMMA WHILE ALLOWING THEM TO MAINTAIN A REVENUE FLOW. AS OF ABOUT 45 DAYS AGO THE CUGIR FACTORY IS DONE WITH FIREARMS MANUFACTURING AND ALL OF THE ROMAINIAN AK PRODUCTS ARE DRYING UP FAST.
ON ANOTHER FRONT. CENTURY ARMS HAS HAD AN ONGOING AND VERY SUCCESSFUL PROJECT WITH THEIR YUGO B-1 AND AB-2 AK BUILD RIFLES. UNFORTUNATELY THERE WERE ONLY A FINITE NUMBER OF KITS TO BUILD THESE RIFLES WITH AND THOSE KITS ARE NOW EXHAUSTED. CENTURY'S YUGO RIFLE PROJECT IS NOW DONE. AS I WRITE THIS WE NOW ARE OUT OF THE UNDERFOLD RIFLES AND ONLY HAVE LESS THAN 100 OF THE B-1 RIFLES IN STOCK.
SO WHAT DOES THE FUTURE HOLD?. MY EDUCATED GUESS IS THAT WE WILL SOON SEE SOME U.S. MADE AK RIFLES COMING TO THE MARKET. BY THAT I DON'T MEAN ENOUGH PARTS TO BE U.S. COMPLIANT, BUT COMPLETELY MADE IN THE UNITEDS STATES. THE PROBLEM IS THAT SINCE NO MORE PART SETS CAN BE IMPORTED INTO THE COUNTRY WITH BARRELS INTACT, AND SINCE THERE AREN'T THAT MANY PARTS SETS LEFT HERE WITH BARRELS, THEN ANY NEW BUILDS WILL ALSO HAVE TO HAVE U.S. BARRELS. COMBINE THAT WITH ADDITIONAL U.S. PARTS, FURNITURE AND U.S. LABOR. AND YOU HAVE A VERY EXPENSIVE U.S. MADE AK RIFLE. I WOULD ALSO GUESS THAT MOST IF NOT ALL OF THESE RIFLES WOULD HAVE TO HAVE SOME TYPE OF POLY STOCK SINCE WOOD STOCKS MADE IN THE U.S. WOULD BE COST PROHIBITIVE. UNFORTUATELY WHEN THESE LAST IMPORTS SELL OUT I REALLY THINK THE DAYS OF THE INEXPENSIVE AK RIFLE ARE GONE.
NONE OF THIS TAKES INTO ACCOUNT THE CURRENT POLITICAL CLIMATE AND THE FACT THAT WE SIMPLY DON'T HAVE A STRONG PRO-GUN CANDIDATE LEFT IN THE RACE. THIS TOO DOES NOT BODE WELL FOR THE FUTURE OF THESE TYPES OF RIFLES.

siglite
March 28, 2008, 11:55 AM
Romania was admitted to NATO in 2004.

kfranz
March 28, 2008, 12:08 PM
For a long time AK kits were quite cheap. Receiver flats still are very cheap. $2-300 dollars worth of tools and some time spent reading leaves the "NO MORE AK's WILL EVER MAKE IT IN ONCE THE SKY FALLS" point moot.

Nickotym
March 28, 2008, 12:13 PM
Apparently no more AK parts kits are being allowed in with intact barrels though. That means you need to find a barrel and get it headspaced and installed, meaning more money.

strat81
March 28, 2008, 12:13 PM
Either way, Bulgaria just joined the EU, and we're still gettin' guns from Arsenal.
Don't forget the Glocks, Sigs, and HKs from Germany and Austria.

Any FN/Browning stuff made in Belgium and shipped here?

The more I hear about the demise of the WASR, the more I think BS.
http://www.floridaventureblog.com/uploaded_images/nobs.jpg

RP88
March 28, 2008, 12:20 PM
how much more would they cost after the Yugo/Roms/etc. dry out? Are we talking a HUGE price jump (i.e. from 450 to something like 650-850)?

MudPuppy
March 28, 2008, 12:37 PM
siglite points out a flaw to classicarm's assessment. This link announcing Bush's welcome to NATO was dated 2002.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/11/20021123-7.html

So, I guess take all that with a grain of salt. However, I've heard that Cugir had stopped firearm mfg from other sources as well.

It is true that intact non-sporting barrels have been restricted for a long while, but in the past year or so the ATF began enforcing the rule. That has been a big jimmy kick to the hobby of building AKs and the cottage industry of locally "produced" AKs (built on imported parts, with the specific number of US compliance parts).

Barrels are being made for AKs domestically, but it is a lot different from building a matching number kit with orginal barrel than a US made one (head space, gas port, etc). I've built a couple dozen myself, but even I'm not messing with one requiring a US barrel. However, lots of folks do and the folks that build them as a business don't find that too difficult, so I'd agree that as long as the parts kits are available there will be some degree of AKs that continue be reasonably available. I keep hearing rumors that Zavasta is going to set up mfg and there's the new rumor that Norinco USA is in the works (but that's a lot more spotty and speculative imho).


Anyhow, the only thing that'll likely dry up AK supplies will be our elected rulers.

roscoe
March 28, 2008, 12:39 PM
Saiga

RP88
March 28, 2008, 12:44 PM
yea...looks like that, after the M70s are gone, then you'll have to pay the extra hundred bucks to get a Saiga converted or a Bulgarian as the next step up. Not to big of a deal...but...

I just checked aimsurplus, and it looks like the M70s are gone from them; now they have Saiga AKs in their place for an extra 100 bucks. Worth it, but it means that it'll be hard to find that classic AK look for cheap, but thats not too big a deal considering the better quality you'll get for just a 100 bucks.

However, I find it funny about the NATO thing. Perhaps they ran out of kits as in THEY BOUGHT THEM ALL ALREADY, and are just saving them in the back-stock for the time being? If they sell as good as they say they do, then limiting stock to drive up price a bit is a good move on their part. Who knows...they could have an extra million of the kits laying around but just dont want to sell for cheap anymore.

rbernie
March 28, 2008, 12:45 PM
DUPE THREAD:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=350911

RP88
March 28, 2008, 01:10 PM
Either way, if prices go up, then you'll be forced to pay an extra hundred for a Saiga, or the same price for whatever Culgir puts out to the market. Honestly, I'm personally liking the converted Saiga AKs from aimsurplus, so I would call this a perk. However, it sucks if its true that getting a true classic-style AK would not be cheap for much longer :(

XDKingslayer
March 28, 2008, 01:23 PM
AK supplies are running out! Our gun rights are going out the window with the next president! Romania only makes cars now! Quick, run out and buy cheap AKs!

That entire letter pegged my BS meter.

Kind of Blued
March 28, 2008, 01:56 PM
That just hurt my eyes too much. Couldn't make it through.

Why isn't there a highlight and "un-caps" action available on computers?

Dynasty
March 28, 2008, 02:51 PM
I wish I had the money to get an AK right now!!

nalioth
March 28, 2008, 04:42 PM
As has been pointed out, we're already discussing 'what is going on with AK rifles" here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=350911


Classic is just using the "scare up some sales" tactic.

kfranz
March 28, 2008, 05:24 PM
That means you need to find a barrel and get it headspaced and installed, meaning more money.


No, it means that you have to buy one of the eleventy billion kits already imported. Price has increased some from the "good old days", but it's still very reasonable.

buck00
March 28, 2008, 05:25 PM
NO MORE AK's WILL EVER MAKE IT IN ONCE THE SKY FALLS

This makes sense. Classicarms has a good selection and all, but there is definitely a used-car salesman angle going on here. A few times he's used the "here is some secret industry info" approach in order to create a buying frenzy.

Prince Yamato
March 28, 2008, 06:21 PM
Sounds to me like we're going to see a whole lot more "Which AR should I buy" threads pretty soon as many in the AK camp are going to start converting over.

Apples and oranges my friend.

Funderb
March 28, 2008, 06:29 PM
Uhhh. caps lock must be stuck again.

MudPuppy
March 28, 2008, 06:35 PM
It was posted on the vendor's site with capslock on, he's an "aw shucks, I'm just an ole country boy trying to get by" type of guy. :)

But, with converted saigas available at $550 or so, wasr's can fade into history. The Yugo underfolders not being readily available at retail is a different matter, but fingers crossed on zavasta USA!

jcor606
November 13, 2008, 06:12 AM
Cugir doesn't appear they will be shutting down it appears they may be getting new and better contracts from Glock! See following article:

http://crib.mae.ro/index.php?lang=en&id=31&s=4586&arhiva=truee plant,

Kymasabe
November 13, 2008, 09:32 AM
That info came from Classic Arms? If you monitor their site, you'll see that they constantly prey on the fear of their buyers, all their ads start with "buy it now, this is the last shipment on the planet, your heirs will hate you for not buying this gun right this minute, this is the best crate of (enter gun name here) that I've ever seen, Barry-O is gonna knock and your door and take your gun personally so buy a spare while you can and bury it in the backyard, etc, etc..."

Classic Arms has some good pricing and they seem like nice folk, just take what you read from them with a grain of salt, keep an open mind, and don't fall victim to their scare tactics.

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