[10-Ring]

A couple months ago, there was a lot going on about faulty frame rails on Glock pistols. How many frames were actually faulty? Did anyone here actually have their frame break? Was it much to do about nothing? Was Glock just taking a pre-emptive strike to prevent a possible problem?

[SouthpawShootr]

Go research the problem at www.glocktalk.com . It was a very real problem, but affected very few of a wide range of Glock models. Basically, there was a notice circulated to LE about Glock pistols in a certain serial number range having frame rails improperly angled. During the first 500 or so rounds (probably less), the rails broke, tying up the gun. The notice got out to the shooting public who promptly had a field day with it. If I recall correctly these were E-series serial number ranges and if you think you may have an affected weapon, you should contact Glock. They will replace the frame. It won't be the same serial number (they add a digit). My regular dealer does nothing but Glocks and he hasn't had a new E-series in about a year. Pre-emptive strike? As I recall, they didn't release any information to civilian customers and this made alot of people hopping :fire: . Further, they obviously knew what serial numbers were affected, but kept that info under wraps, so nobody knows how many guns were actually affected. You have rely on what Glock said. For alot of people, this incident damaged Glocks credibility.

[gamegod86]

originally posted to GlockTalk by MarkCO

UNOFFICIAL Memo on Glock Frame Recall
This is UNOFFICIAL! This is NOT from Glock but from the GT membership. I can't beleive I actually read so many stinking posts on this, but I did. MUCH thanks to Rob62 and MakeMineA10mm for working on this and for keeping the lists up to date. I, nor any of the people who contributed to this "memo", nor GlockTalk, nor Eric, nor the sponsors of Glocktalk intend for this to be used for making any decisions of any kind. If you think for a second you might have an affected Glock, or are unsure, check with Glock, 1-866-225-4098 and seek their advice! YOU are responsible for checking on YOUR gun. If you don't agree, don't read this post!

It appears that only serial numbers starting with "E", "GSSF", or "USA" (American Heros Commeratives) are affected. In general, the chronological serial number set that has the prefix letters of "EKA" through "EVR" inclusive appear to be the affected Glocks, regardless of caliber. Three letters precede three numbers on a plate forward of the trigger guard on the underside of the polymer frame. However, some aberations to this generalization have been reported by GTers. Reports are that the affected Glocks were manufacutured from September 2001 to May 2002. So if you bought (or won a GSSF Glock) an "E" or "USA" series Glock in September of 2001 up until the present day, you might have an affected Glock. Unfortunately, Glock has not published a list. Hope this helps, but again, if you are responsible enough to own a gun and can read this, you are smart enough to check for yourself by calling Glock.

It also appears that Glock does not officially call this a recall, but an upgrade at no charge. See www.GSSFonline.com for Glock's information. Reports vary as to time for "affected" pistols to be upgraded, but it is a "Return to Glock in Smyrna, GA" upgrade and will not be performed at GSSF events or by local armorers. There was one photo posted, which I have attached, that shows a failed rear frame rail. Personally, I've never seen an affected Glock or a failed rail due to the recall/upgrade, so this is about as much as I can do.

As of the time of this post, ALL prior stickied threads will be unstuck and allowed to pass into the past. Feel free to use the GT search function to find them, while they last. I'm going to leave this one stuck indefinately and any RELEVANT posts may be added. However, posts which say a certain Glock is or is not affected and fall in the typical ranges will be pruned to keep this post manageable. Also, wine and cheese will not be served on this flight (NO political, boycott, bashing etc. allowed on this thread)!

=============================================

"Odd" Serial numbers reported but which fall outside the general ranges indicated above:

G36 – EGX - reported as affected.

G23 – EUD - reported as not affected.

G27 - EUH - reported as not affected.

G20 - EUN - reported as not affected.

G26 - EUR - reported as not affected.

G26 – EVL - reported as not affected.





http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=135505&highlight=recall

I called the number in this post about several of my Glocks. Only one was in the affected range.
It was a 3rd gen G21.

The replacement frames have the same serial number except that it is prefixed with a "1"

[10-Ring]

I understand that Glock has replaced/ is replacing/ or will replace frames that fall into the affected range. My question is how many of these frames have actually had any kind of failure/ breakage?

[gamegod86]

Glock claims that it is less than 1%, IIRC.

Personally, I think that it is not really a big deal.

Many people (like me) are just doing the "upgrade" to CYA just in case.

I believe that it is really just not that big of a problem. I bought the G21 knowing that there was a good chance that it was on the list.

I think that it was a pre-emptive strike for a minor issue.

But, that's just my opinion....

Todd

[Island Beretta]

10-Ring:

Actually had a recent thread on what is happening at/with Glocks and this was one issue.

I gathered the problem pertained to production runs between September 01 and May 02. I do not know the frequency of production runs or how large the batches are, but best case (of the worst) would be that 1 batch is flawed. The problem pertained to a flaw with the polymer mix/molding with the rear rails. Advisories have been issued worldwide!!

Glock has made replacement for LEOs mandatory but civilians whilst being able to ask for a change are advised to do so only if 'a problem' develops and the impression is that they would not be given priority. This has made some civilians mad :fire: and I believe they should be as all life is important!

Past issues have shown this to be Glocks approach but I guess if you claim 'Perfection' then you kinda setup yourself and so it is difficult to acknowledge 'Imperfection'.

[10-Ring]

Would the guns in that affected serial number range be less expensive then to buy on the used gun market?

[SouthpawShootr]

Probably not. But if you knew the gun was in the affected range, you could use it as a leverage point to try to get the price down, since you are taking a risk that the gun will fail and if it does you will lose service of the gun for up to six weeks. Glock will mark the new frame. I know one guy who got his replaced and the serial number was the same except that there was an added digit. I don't remember what that was. I'll ask him again when I see him, but that won't be until September. You likely won't be able to talk anybody down if the frame has been replaced. Just don't let somebody simply tell you it was done - make them provide proof.

[lunde]

The additional digit is a "1" (numeral one), prefixed to the existing serial number. So, my "GSSF020" (GSSF 10th Anniversary Commemorative Glock 17) became "1GSSF020" on the new frame.

My wife's Glock 19 was also affected, and a "1" was prefixed to the serial number on her new frame.

BTW, Glock sent both replacement frames, with all guts installed, to my dealer. Once we did the transfers and waited ten days (California), we picked up the new frames, removed the original frames, salvaged the original frame guts (I figured that Glock would trash them anyway, because they have no clue whether the pistols had 1 or 100,000 rounds put through them), then sent them back to Glock for destruction. I also included a receipt to show the transfer costs ($40 for each) plus the fee for returning the original frames to Glock. I also indicated that I removed the "guts," and that if Glock wanted them back, too, they simply needed to state so. I received a check for the full amount a couple weeks later.

[gamegod86]

Here is a picture of the failure.

http://www.glocktalk.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=1367833

As you can see, it is not a polymer problem, it is a metal problem. The rear rail can fail where it "folds" to the outside.

Glock is, in my experience with the "upgrade", doing the replacement cheerfully and without hassle.

YMMV.

Todd

[Navy joe]

Glock handled the "recall" PR very poorly,

It also appears that Glock does not officially call this a recall, but an upgrade at no charge. See www.GSSFonline.com for Glock's information.

but that's nothing new, they are good for posting voluntary upgrades where others would call it a recall. Their failure to be upfront with the general public about what guns were affected damaged their reputation.

Unfortunately, Glock has not published a list.

I can't imagine Glock's liability if a broken frame rail had jammed a gun and got someone killed in a self defense encounter.

Glock Perfectino!

In comparing my GenII 17 to my 34 I can't for the life of me figure why they made the frame rails smaller in the GenIIIs.

[Poohgyrr]

FWIW, my duty issue G23 had one of the serial numbers in question. I had shot wayyyy more than 500 rounds through it, including several into a crazy pit bull/shepard mix attacking kids and teachers at a school (see http://www.idpa.com/cof/snipe.htm on the IDPA website for an example). All without problems of any kind. Glock replaced the Dept's pistol anyway.

[Zip06]

Glock seems to have more quality control issues these days. The Generation 3 frames have been involved in highly publicized problems with New York's Glock 19's; the rear rail problem; breech face failures. My Glocks are all 2nd Generation. I think I would buy one of their rebuilds before I would get a new Generation 3.

[Nero Steptoe]

The NY G19 problems had nothing to do with the frame. Probably had to do with poor shooting techniques by guys and gals who'd never seen a handgun prior to becoming cops. Isn't it strange that only the NY PD's G19's had the problems?

[Zip06]

Nero - That was the line Glock was putting out after the ever popular, its the ammo, its limp wristing, etc. The unit that had the problems initially was the ESD unit. Thats New Yorkese for SWAT. I think they probably were knowledgeable about how a Glock works. Its true that this problem had nothing to do with the frame but it had a lot to do with quality control. Glock resolved the problem by sending up a Van which contained a machine shop and they milled all the receivers. The same problem also was reported at Gunsite.

[Nero Steptoe]

Zip: Not to be argumentative, but I believe that Gunsite simply reported and opined on the NY problem. I understand that Glock did send a van to NY to work on the G19's. I'd bet that the unfortunate choice of 12# triggers had something to do with the failures. Enlarging the breechcut was just a "crutch" fix for poor handling skills and bad decision regarding trigger choices.

Once again, why is it that the zillions of other G19's don't suffer the same problems? The G19's are of the same design as other Glocks; nothing unique about them. The only constant in the problem besides the G19's were the New Yorkers doing the shooting.

[Zip06]

Nero - I know what you mean about the G19's at large. Mine has at least 18k through it with only one spring failure. I attribute that to normal wear and tear.

That NY trigger was a suspect in my observations also but that doesn't explain why the van was there.

My current thought is that Gaston figured out a way to cut manufacturing costs and it didn't work out. Kinda like that new cheesy finish on the Gen 3 Glocks. They look like someone sprayed them with Krylon.

[Island Beretta]

If memory serves me right it was not only the NYPD that had the problem. NYPD received this attention (van, media etc.) because they threatened a change and when you have the largest police force in the USA that is no mean threat.

I also remember a couple years previously, a police officer had his Glock fire when he released the slide. The dept. did not believe saying that he had his finger on the trigger. Well, it happened to the armorer and then they believed. This led to another 'upgrade'.

[Oracle]

I like the Gen 3 Glock finish, it scuffs and shows marks much less than the previous parkerized finish. That's probably why it was chosen. Plus, it looks a lot more like teflon frying pan coating than Krylon spray paint.

[Island Beretta]

By the way, anyone know what serial number ranges Glocks have reached now?

[Nero Steptoe]

The purpose of the van was to modify (enlargen) the ejection port, in order to compensate for problems that were probably caused by reasons I've already stated. (Also to mollify/placate a very large customer)

And no, I don't think there was a problem anywhere except in NY. If you review accounts of the problems, you'll also find that the frequency of failures even in NY was extremely low...certainly low enough to be a combination of poor shooting skills and the outrageously heavy trigger.

At some point, a little logic and common sense will usually reveal answers to most problems. There were no "special" Glocks made for NYPD. There have been no rash of complaints of G19 failures anywhere else.

The recent Glock frame rail problem had nothing to do with problems with Glocks' design, but rather with a manufacturing mistake on a particular run of Glocks....including many different models.