[The Tourist]

I have just received my new Cold Steel "Special Projects" catalog. It appears to be a slick new format, and I've just begun to read and study the items.

Did you get your copy? What do you think? I saw a few things that were new wrinkles in their product line, although I'm not impressed with the alloys used across the board. I believe the use of VG-1 in their Voyager series is good blend of quality and pricing.

It's going to take me the better part of the week to read the whole thing, do some research and decide if any of the products will be carried by my company. I do not wish to prejudice your views at this time.

Give me your unvarnished opinion. After all, I don't work for Lynn Thompson...

[Sharpdogs]

No, not yet, but they have some very cool things coming out this year. High on my to buy list is the Blackthorn walking stick and Pocket Bushman.

[CWL]

Get a real Irish blackthorn walking stick from this guy for much cheaper. He's made them for presidents such as Kennedy & Reagan.

http://www.lollysmith.com/irblwast2.html

Or would you really rather have a plastic one from CS?

[ashtxsniper]

I like Cold Steel products and I own many of them. This is what I dislike. First off Lynn Thompson is a fat loudmouth idiot. Cold Steel does not make any of there own products. They are all made in overseas plant by a handful of different companies and CS just stamps their name on them and distributes them. They could use much better steels than they do for what they charge. Models I like and that are worth the money are trailmaster, recon scout, Gurka Kukri, uwk, peacekeeper's, oss, vaquero, and a few others. The company makes about 50% good quality stuff and about 50% junk. Go over to bladeforums.com they trash Cold Steel every chance they get.

[hso]

Cold Steel's new "Black Rock Hunter"
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/specpro_1993_639949

Interesting similarity to the Finnish folder we've seen before.

http://www.ragweedforge.com/9692.gif

[The Tourist]

Go over to bladeforums.com

That's not exactly a rousing endorsement. I use other professional sources for insider info. However, I do know the complaints, and find some of them justified. And this is my problem with them.

I have a client who bought a four-inch plain CS clip-blade Voyager from me a few years back. Being that it is VG-1, it took a wicked edge and an incredible mirror finish. You can't get the thing away from the guy. He cuts up Wisconsin whitetail like he's using a laser. And when he brings it to me for re-sharpening, it really only needs a buff.

Then on the other hand, we have 400 dollar folders that should be priced in the 100 dollar range. Don't get me wrong, I had a Black Sable that was very sharp. It had no pizazz for me. I gave it to a veteran, and I have never missed it--not one day.

I am a bit tired of the AUS-6 and AUS-8A alloys. In many ways you could get by with 440C. The new Tri-Ad lock looks like a lot of parts that don't really address the problem of wear. I've seen 20-year old Buck 110's that lock tighter than a bank vault door. I have lots of Emersons, and none of them are loose. In fact, the only 'wobble' problem I ever heard about that was chronic was on a particular run of Keating Chinooks about five or six years ago. I believe the problem is fixed now.

At first glance, there seems to be the same gallery of "sword and sorcery" inventory that makes my eyes glaze. And I'll be honest here--I never believed there was a plague of new-age knife fighting actually going on. Yes, there are knife attacks. However the old mano-a-mano, Westside Story face-off of stilettos at dawn is certainly a myth. I actually carried a stiletto for four years of high school--as did my friends--and we never saw one actually being used.

I'll never use a fighting tomahawk or an African spear for wild game. I think the machetes might actually see the light of day. I have a client who buys--and uses--plenty of them for brush.

So far in my research, I'm getting a "bland" feeling. Thompson could do so much more in the cutlery industry, and this catalog just seems to be a slicker version of some old inventory. Two days into this, and I'm getting a sinking feeling.

I won't bash the brand, however. You could take the most tarted up Talwar and actually go deer hunting. The Pendleton Hunters are a good value. And CS is one of the few cutlers I know that makes a folder over six inches long besides the Spanish. This is simply a disappointment.

[hso]

I'm getting a "bland" feeling.TT,

It seems to be a professional hazard after the first 3 years for all of us that have any professional involvement.

[The Tourist]

Re: getting a "bland" feeling. TT, It seems to be a professional hazard after the first 3 years for all of us that have any professional involvement.

This is the part that confuses me. I only make money if I provide a good service and secure worthwhile merchandise. You have to make a profit--even in a retirement business.

To that end, CS is a big company, and like them or not, they are a major player. If Lynn Thompson wanted to, and if the company was for sale, he could easily buy out the Graham brothers. Heck, with a minimal leverage of cash, he could probably buy out Strider.

Right now during this debate, I have two mid-priced knives on my computer stand--a Graham and an Emerson. Neither one is their top-of-the-line model. Neither one has exotic grips or a cosmetic polish or unique locking mechanism. Heck, one is a fixed blade.

If you compare the entire Special Project catalog to my two knives (in my research so far) you will find better alloys, better craftsmanship, a stronger design, and a better HT (Paul Bos) than the CS examples.

And usually at one-third the price of the exotic CS folders. And one-sixth the cost of the exotic samurai line.

My question is simply "why"? Mr. Thompson can go to any corner of the world and buy any technology. While other cutlers provide more modern alloys, CS seems to be stuck in 1986. The company doesn't need the line of goods they carry. At least they wouldn't have to spew out as many CD's about quality if the knives delivered to begin with.

I had an early CS tanto with brass bolsters that could really punch through a car door. The man that designed and sold that knife needs no excuses.

[rnr4me]

The Tourist said: I only make money if I provide a good service and secure worthwhile merchandise. You have to make a profit.....

Right, but in Lynns case, there's enough people who are ignorant to keep him going. In the Internet based economy there are enough suckers to buy something once to keep a company profitable.

I bought some CS stuff back in the 80's when they were still decent. The only thing I've bought in CS's recent evolution is a TrailMaster. A decent knife.

Knowing what I know about steels and etc, I'll probably never buy another CS product. There's too much other good stuff out there.

[hso]

TT,

It's all about the gross and percent profit.

United sold junk knives for the most part that most "real" knife companies would never consider offering. They marketed them well. That was part of their success. If not for mismanagement (and the mistake of trying to become a "real" knife company) they'd still be in business and making money on junk knives.

CS makes a more expensive knife of low to mediocre quality (for the most part) and markets the dickens out of them. To that end they do a lot of bread and butter knives that clever marketing allows them to make more profit on.

There are far more people out there that don't know the difference and they buy more knives than you or I do (ok, more than most of our members do).

Never underestimate the buying public's lack of taste.

[Pax Jordana]

In the amateur's corner, I have to say that CS is well-constructed glamour cutlery - you don't see the Epic Dragon Dagger in their catalog, but it's the same neighborhood. What I really love about them is what they're doing nowadays with plastic.

If ever I *really* had to club zombies all day, I'd probably take the durable polypro war club over half a broomstick any day.

Yea, I bout a Ti-Lite (what was that about folders over six inches?) and I like it, but it could've cost a little less or been a little nicer. If you order from CS, it's more expensive than ordering from a third party.

I also like their DVDs. If your DVD player has a rewind feature, play the kitchen knife section at 1x backwards and you can watch the CS lady reassemble a chicken :cool:

[CZ.22]

I give Solid Proof to a friend whenever I get a new one.

[MadMercS55]

I recently picked up the American Lawman folder and their X2 Voyager. Both provided nice quality for their price. I also have an old Recon Scout that has been beat to heck and back and stood up to everything I could throw at it. I buy alot of knives and have no real problem with Cold Steel overall. These days some of their models have gone downhill so you need to be a bit more selective when buying, but their higher end fixed blades and folders are generally a good deal if you buy them right.

[ashtxsniper]

I sure do miss the days of carbon V thats for sure. As far as folders go I will stick with Benchmade and Spyderco.

[JTW Jr.]

t's going to take me the better part of the week to read the whole thing
a week ? man you must be bored ;)

Think I would rather be forced to watch every season of American Idol back to back that read a CS cat-a-LOG for 5 minutes.

Every industry needs someone to bring up the rear...CS does that very well , all while their leader acts like one.

At shot show , on the 4th day , a friend had to stop by their booth to check out their canes. He walked away laughing and said " yeah , ok you are right , my $$$ is better spent elsewhere ".

[TimboKhan]

First off Lynn Thompson is a fat loudmouth idiot

What's being fat have to do with being a loudmouth idiot? I am fat, and I am a pretty nice guy.

[Valkman]

Yea, fat people unite! I'd make a good "before" picture. :)

[hso]

Heck, I'm fat and a loudmouth and I resent having any relationship with Lynn Thompson.;)

[CZ.22]

Heck, I'm fat and a loudmouth and I resent having any relationship with Lynn Thompson.
Heck, I'm a fat loudmouth and I'd love to be related to Lynn Thompson, provided I inherited Cold Steel.
Advertising BS or not, owning Cold Steel would just be freakin' awesome!
Also, the new Pocket Bushman would be interesting.

[Pax Jordana]

provided I inherited Cold Steel.

Man when you watch him you can tell his heart sounds like sand in a door hinge..

Have we decided his knives are good quality but cost too much? Then they're overpriced. If they're really terrible, then they're terrible.

There are a few people on here I wouldn't want to deal with personally. So what? It's business, and I'm not making my own knives, so I gotta buy 'em from someone.
"the world's strongest, sharpest knives"..
In business, it's called ad copy - in politics it's called someone's overactive imagination, or memory misallocation.. only when Honest Joe Nobody's on the witness stand is it called lying.


(but then - I don't frown upon eating dinner at mcdonald's either.)

[ashtxsniper]

Sorry about the fat comment lord knows I could stand to lose 20 lbs. I just am not convinced about some of his fighting dvds where he is dancing around in spandex.

[The Tourist]

Re: "it's going to take me the better part of the week" a week ? man you must be bored

No, I'm just in the industry and I take nothing for granted. I know enough professionals in the sharpening and cutlery industry to get the "back story" on claims and corporate moves.

For example, about seven years ago there was a major player who seemed to be at the apex of his career. Very few folks knew that he had leveraged everything. He was taking on some banking personnel to re-organize the company. True to form, the knives made at the end of one quarter were different than the "new models." I got that info from an insider and bought accordingly.

The CS catalog I received had all of the alloys listed in the front pages. Many were unfamiliar. That's to be expected, I don't make knives, I service them.

I really don't find out about a groundbreaking new alloy until it becomes available for sale or needs sharpening.

I did find out about the original ZDP-189 alloy Spyderco was unveiling from an insider, and I bought a few of these knives before few in the general population even heard of them.

[JTW Jr.]

how you like that ZDP ? any thoughts on N690 ?

appreciate your comments , as always.

[ashtxsniper]

I have a few Spyderco Endura's that are made of ZDP-189. The stuff is hard to sharpen compared to VG-10 but it gets incredibly sharp and holds and edge for a very long time. It blows VG-10 out of the water IMHO. The only problem with it is it will rust much easier than VG-10.

[The Tourist]

To answer both of your concerns about ZDP-189, the two I had were the early models with the maroon handles.

It was a laminate. The ZDP at the core, sandwiched (clad) with layers of 420CJ. I thought it sharpened okay, but it seemed to cut just like anything else. Considering the expense and collector value of those early models, you'd be better off just getting a nice knife in 154-CM.

When it comes to things like the new "super steels" I wonder how much is an actual advantage, and how much is simply keeping up with the Joneses.

I've been alternating this week with two EDC's, one of 154-CM and the other of S30V. Both were shined to a mirror edge.

If I didn't tell you, you couldn't tell either one simply by the cut.

This is why the idea of "hype" infuriates me. For example, I can buy cases of the Shrade Old Timer (a knife almost identical to a Buck 110) for $6.90 per each. It takes me less than ten minutes to but a perfect mirror edge on each knife. One month I used them as a promo--buy a knife, get a Schrade for free.

Once the knife had a perfect edge, my clients told me that this knife out-cut any knife they had previously owned. That's $6.90 per each.

Knowing that, there are knives in the CS catalog for almost $400.00 made from AUS-8A, basically the typical carbon/chrome stainless everyone knows.

I'll sell you a Schrade for $400.00 (wink, nudge), and it will match the AUS-8A alloy.

Any takers?

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/TheTourist_bucket/DSC00238.jpg

[sm]

No.
I am still old fashioned and prefer to leave drool marks and finger prints on Case knife display cases at the mom and pop hardware store, feed and seed and tractor supply stores.

Heck I still like to put my foot on that old wooden block that is there for kids so they can see better. *yep*

I am just a dumb old southern boy that apprenticed back a long time ago using hand tools.
I had to learn to do stuff by hand, as Dremel was not on the market and would not for years.
Foredom Flexshaft was around and the other powered tool was electric motor like a grinding or buffing machine.

Tools were tool steel, carbon steel and chrome vanadium.
We did not use the new stainless steel offerings, as they were being hyped even back then.

Just...well...what we used were heat treated, took an edge, kept it and these features were important.
Mentors shared how tool steels were used to cut stainless back then.
Then using tool steel would actually whittle on stainless to demonstrate.

I was little when all this was shown and later again, not very old still, I started apprenticing.

I have forgotten anything I thought I knew, still I just remember some stuff from back when and what shared.

Sometimes if something sounds too good it is.
Sometimes the bottom line is, what are you getting for monies spent.
Sometimes the calendar says it is time to promote something for sales, be it hem lines for ladies skirts, a knife steel, or vacation spot or...

Ninety percent of all fishing stuff is to catch fisherman's wallets, - not fish.

Does this CS catalog come with a old time Coke Box?
How about a dawg?
I sorta like getting a Dr. Pepper from the sheet metal coke boxes at these old mom and pops and messing with dawgs that hang out in the stores.

I remember Imperial knives with carbon steel were not much money and sure did take an hold an edge.
Sure did tick off some fella with a 'stainless knife' that time one of the mentors shaved a piece off his knife with an Imperial.
Fella said this was the next generation steel and would do all sorts of wonderful things.

Sorta neat using them hand tools I was learning on , cutting into that new generation steel the rest of the afternoon.

I ain't smart enough to use the new stuff, I best stick to what I grew up with...
...I am still learning about it.

[The Tourist]

I am still old fashioned...I am still learning about it.

My, my. A brother from another mother.

I must admit, I too look forward to catalogs--even the ones from the Thompson Cigar company, and I don't even smoke. There's just something about a slick, shiny book of pictures that gets my hopes up.

Of course, then I put on my old blue jeans and look around for something sharp, and it usually turns out I pick one of my old standby EDC's.

The best thing that happened to me during the past few weeks is my Graham Stubby. It's short, handy, sharp and I cannot break it. In short, it's a knife. And I need a knife to, well, cut stuff. And to cut stuff it has to be easily carried in those blue jeans as I live my life doing something stupid that breaks knives. Do you see where I'm going?

If stuff gets scratched, dented or is delivered so purty and fragile that I'm afraid to use it, well, it's mostly worthless.

In the sharpening forum I told my buddies about a procedure I have called "being mayonnaised." That is, the first time you take a pristine knife out and cut something--usually something where "pristine" is not an operative word.

For me, the Stubby got mayonnaised by cutting several Harley-Davidson hotdogs and then smearing them all with ketchup. Just to make sure I didn't baby the knife, I first gulped down a handful of salty Ruffles chips so the handle of the Stubby got good and coated. All in all, the knife is now officially 'mine.'

It's a rough world, I ultimately choose tools that can take it. Unfortunately, that means I have a very critical eye for toys in a new catalog.

[sm]

Catalogs today are different...

I still like looking at the old catalogs and back of old magazines for the ads.
Not long ago I ran across some knife ads from yesteryear, I am not sure I book marked it, I will have to look.

Old ads showing Imperial knives in cardboard counter top displays.
Shrade Old Timer, with all the folding knife styles and then some of Sharpfingers.

Old Magazines, heck I rarely read a new magazine, but give me one going back decades and I will go through it, and read the ads.

Some stuff don't change.
They still have all sorts of stuff one can buy for their car to make it not only run faster, also save gas.
I remember back in the mid 60's we got to figuring we would need to pull over about every 200 miles to siphon out all the gas we were saving if we used all the new and fangled products the ads had to offer. *grin*

Oil, spark plugs, spark plug wires, coils, resistors and valve stems, grease for joints, additives for water, oil , transmission, ....

What is funny to me is, some of the same articles, debates, and arguments I recall from hunting and fishing magazines from 1955 ( year I was born ) and other years say until late 60's are still being done today.

6mm vs .243.
9mm vs 45ACP
Are 5 rounds in a revolver enough rounds
Carbon Steel vs Stainless for a pocket knife
Oil or grease for handgun lube
Is motor oil okay to lube a gun with
Is .22 cal a deer ctg...
Serrated vs Plain edge on a knife

etc.

Folks did not have a lot of money, and no credit cards back then.
One saved up, or did lay-a-way.
Folks tried what others had , or tried the hardware store sample knives and investigated and verified.

Guns the same way, they tried before they bought, and then shared a box of shells to find out what shot best for their gun, and bought what their gun shot best.

So if one fella used Winchester loads, nobody make fun of him, he tested his gun and in like turn if another fellas gun shot Federal best, well he tested his gun and his shot those best.

If a fella used a Shrade, well that knife fit his hand and tasks.
Another might use an Imperial, and another a Case, and the fella with the Shrade-Walden, he has always had that knife.

Folks were self assured, comfortable with self, and respected one another.
It was common to see someone use a pocket knife for cleaning game, the same knife he cut a ad out of a magazine with, cut string, whittled, and everything with.

Marketing kicked in, and hard.
They used to tell housewives if they cared about their family and wanted to be a good wife and mom they had to get rid of some appliance and get a new one.
Like a coffee pot, it was "wrong" to use a coffee pot that had to be on a stove top, it had to be "electric percolator".

I recall one snake oil salesman trying to tell the gals if they really cared about family, and did not want the kids to be ashamed, mom had to have an electric can opener.
He had some fancy stainless knife too, and said the Old Hickory, Case, Chicago Cutlery was "old school".

New knife was better and this electric sharpener, had a knife sharpener built into the back...this was the wave of the future.
*cringe*

He did not sell the gals [Moms and single ladies] any thing that day, he did get a ear full and reminded of the road that led into town , led back out and he would be wise to catch the bus and head on out.

He sorta got the hint and left...he picked the wrong set of gals to try his snake oil selling on.

*yep*

[Dionysusigma]

:rolleyes: *shakes head*

:)
sm, you've really gotta stop putting whippersnappers "in their place." 'Tain't polite. ;) :D

[The Tourist]

Well, sm, you've just characterized the ideas I take to reviewing new catalogs. Slick and pretty might be fun to look at, for example, I like auto shows. The problem with this idea on knives is that the edge wears, the client is more or less going to want continued service, not to mention how the thing serves him daily after the shine is long gone.

I'm thinking of re-shooting that Schrade pic. The knife is a lot neater looking in reality, and the edge is a fantastic mirror. When was that knife first provided to the public, 1967? And we all remember a father or an uncle taking us out to a deer camp or a weekend get-away where that six-dollar knife was pretty much the whole show--deer, food, repairs.

Perhaps that's the issue. I've seen the knives of the past. Knives with solid metal and brass frames, blades that came sharp. In that idea, I'm going more and more to custom craftsmen. I hate to say this, but I wouldn't even carry many of the knives under 50 bucks. Certainly nothing under fifteen.

(Except an Opinel. I once carried a four-inch Opinel for several weeks as my EDC just to show my friends it could be done.)

Back to the debate. Disappointment is setting in. Most of the back of the catalog is items I have seen before.

[alaskanativeson]

When Fall rolled around as a kid it was depressing because it meant I had to stop running around the hills all day and return to school, but it was also cause to celebrate for two reasons: Football started again and the Sears and Mongomery Wards Fall/Winter catalogs were coming out.

Remember when catalogs advertised GUNS in them? I can't tell you how many page corners I wore out trying to decide as a kid which gun I would need to save the world back then. Knives too. I still have several Fall/Winter catalogs from the early to mid '70s. Fun stuff.

I'll admit, I still do buy a few Cold Steel products. I get them from Ebay and they all carry the words "Carbon V" in the description somewhere. I probably have one of the world's largest collection of Twistmaster knives in existence. I don't see much in their current catalog I like but they used to make some fine things.

Lynn Thompson is a connundrum. He's unapologetic about his support of outdoor sports, gun ownership, hunting and many fine things. He's always one of the first manufacturers to step up and send the military a bunch of free knives when they ship out in large numbers. My brother got an SRK and a pocketknife when he served in Desert Storm. Didn't ask for them, they just showed up and he happened to be in the right place at the right time. At the ame time I've met Mr. Thompson at a gun show. He's definitely arrogant and kind of an ass. Now maybe he'd had a bad day. It happens to me. But first impressions stick with you. I will give him a kind word for the many good things he does but like I said, he's a connundrum to me.

I will say this: I rarely go out into the field without a Cold Steel knife on me, but I NEVER go out without a Randall Knife. On some things there can be no compromise.

[The Tourist]

connundrum...unapologetic...arrogant and kind of an ass

Truth be told, so am I. In fact, I truly believe that 98% of the people I have met in my entire life are cowards, cut-purses, without talent, self-centered, licentious and needless sink-holes of valuable oxygen. A lot of them are in my family, but that's not a prerequisite.

During a very tough period in my church I told my pastor that I actually felt more sincerity at my Harley shop than in his church. If we are to hate the sin and love the sinner he was doing a substandard job of organizing the flock.

And I admire working at a job. I also believe in customer service and the axiom of "fair price for honest work."

If I am going to slap a knife down in front of a client it's because I would carry that knife myself. And in most cases the reason I even offer a product is because I have carried it.

If you ever get the Blue Ridge Knife catalog available to resellers you'll find that it's over an inch thick. Updates appear almost monthly. This is tens of thousands of knives.

To date, I would blindly order only three. Striders. Emersons. Grahams.

And BTW, I don't know any tinker or cutler that doesn't give to soldiers. And not just knives, but sharpening supplies, sunglasses and CARE packages.

You don't know that because we don't trumpet it. It's just a good, honest thing to do--the right thing to do.

Did you also know that tinkers and cutlers send each other knives (and re-sharpened knives) to their competitors for free? A few days ago I called a cutler in the UP and asked about one of the knives on his website. He knows who I am. He told a co-worker to get my address. To be fair, I asked the price, and he told me "it was taken care of."

That's a +200 dollar knife.

[Browning]

I recieved that same catalog in the mail yestersday and the only two knives that I really had much interest in actually buying were the CS Finn Bear and one that's new the Finn Wolf.

Finn Bear
http://www.ragweedforge.com/finn-bear.jpg

Finn Wolf
http://www.coldsteel.com/20pw.html

They kind of remind me of the Mora style knives that they're modeled after, inexpensive, but fairly sturdy for the price (around $20). For $20 you wouldn't freak out if you lost it or broke the tip off or something. The rest of their knives didn't really appeal to me for some reason, they seemed kind of expensive compared to some of the other knives that I could get for the same price (which would be from Ontario, Ka-Bar, Swamp Rat, Dozier, Ryan Wilson, Blackjack, Kellam, AG Russel, Spyderco, Benchmade or Al Mar which I'm a little more certain are of better quality).

I've heard good things about the swords, but I can't see myself actually buying one. I played with the idea of getting one of their swords for a little while, but it seems like a waste of money since I wouldn't actually do anything with it besides hang it on a wall.

As far as that CS Voyager knife and the VG-10 steel used that particular knife didn't really appeal to me that much. VG-10's good steel and I have a few knives made out of it, but I wasn't too impressed with the materials that the handle and pins were made out of when I picked up a couple at the last gun show.

Spending a minute or two handling a couple isn't exactly a great way to test a knife though and I probably wouldn't trust a second hand opinion of a stranger over the internet myself when it comes to buying knives unless I know their standards and how they came to their opinion on a certain knife. The only way to know for sure would be to buy the knife and test it out yourself.

For what it's worth here's an independent test of two different types of CS Voyagers

The Medium CS Voyager
http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/voyager_medium.html

The Large CS Voyager
http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/voyager_large.html

And another site that's tested other CS knives
http://knifetests.com/

[tomh1426]

How does that Cold steel Rock Hunter open?
It looks like a Balisong.

[ArfinGreebly]

That looks very much like a knock-off of a Normark I have.

Normark's handle on a Marttiini blade.

I'll have to dig it up, but it's real close.

Frankly, even for a few bucks more, I'll stay with the original.

[SlamFire1]

I met Lynn Thompson at the old Pomona Gun Show. I made an offer on a knife, and he declined it. I was not happy, but he was not going to sell it for less.

Entrepreneurs are generally unhappy people, in some way. You meet enough millionaires, and no matter how they appear, (which may in shorts and flip flops), or what they drive (goes the gambit from junk to expensive), they will try to impress you with something they did or have. These guys have a screw loose. But if it was not for that loose screw, they would not have overcome all obstacles to make it to the top of their trash pile.

But in doing so, they create successful enterprises. Business has “sin” in the middle for a reason. Business is rough and tumble survival of the fittest, only bounded by the few laws that exist. Business ethics is an oxymoron; business is about profits. Big eats small, justice only a question between equals in power.

Lynn Thompson as a successful entrepreneur made the mistake of putting himself out in the front as the spokesman and image of his business. Old money, and I am talking old Corporate money, is smarter. They put Clowns or Buxom Blondes as their Corporate images. Who could not like Clowns or Buxom Blondes? When they get tiresome, they are replaced with rubber Dinosaurs or new toothy celebrities . Few know the truly nasty people who are the Corporate CEO’s of fortune 500 companies. The only times we get a glimpse is when they are doing the perp walk thing.

Lynn Thompson, like him or not, has built a successful business, his catalog of knives is getting bigger and bigger. I like the fact that he is a knife enthusiastic. His knives and company are better for it. He understands the product, produces stuff that the market wants. When the entrepreneur goes out of the company, the product suffers. The subsequent Harvard trained Suits that later run the business are only interested in the bottom line, not the product. The gun industry has an excellent examples: Colt and Winchester. Companies once strong, now diminishing shadows, one gone completely, only around in name only.

[The Tourist]

Entrepreneurs are generally unhappy people, in some way. You meet enough millionaires, and no matter how they appear

Man, you have to meet some new people! I find the exact opposite!

Come meet the tinkers on KnfeForums in the "Keeping Sharp" section. We help each other with other businesses--that's right, we help the competition.

We ship free knives to each other, we'll sharpen problematic knives for a guys' customers--even help build sharpening equipment.

For example, this week I shipped a box of 200 grain Norma shaped Hensly & Gibbs cast linotype bullets to a fellow sharpener. Do you want to pay that shipping invoice?

All is fair. A cutler from the Michigan UP is shipping me a 200 dollar handmade knife.

Being a tinker is an age old line of work. We might be the clown princes of the service industry, but we keep our word.

[FLA2760]

Yes I got My CS "Special Projects" catalog and I really like the neck knives.

[Browning]

ArfinGreebly : That looks very much like a knock-off of a Normark I have.

Normark's handle on a Marttiini blade.

I'll have to dig it up, but it's real close.

Frankly, even for a few bucks more, I'll stay with the original.

Huh? Never heard of Normark before.

Are they a Scandi blade company that makes Mora and Puukko style knives?

[ArfinGreebly]

Years and years ago Lauri Rapala (http://www.rapala.com/company/rapala_history.html) invented a cutting-edge fishing lure that became popular in Europe and even more popular in the USA.

More here (http://www.rapala.com/company/rapala_history.html).

After years of selling the lures in Europe, they joined forces with Normark (a company out of Minnesota) to bring their products to the US in a big way.

Normark re-badged several products, mostly of Scandinavian origin.

Normark had sheath knives made by Frost, Eriksson, Marttiini, and Järvenpää with the Normark logo on the handle and the blade maker's logo on the blade. They also had folding knives made by EKA, and branded the same way (I have a Swede 92 by EKA and an American Hunter by Normark -- they're the same knife).

The handles that Normark put on their sheath knives sometimes exactly matched the original maker's handles, and sometimes not. In the "sometimes not" category, there was a line of Marttiini hunting knives sold with the Normark logo (and handle) during the Seventies and Eighties. I have some of these. I also have examples of the Rapala folding fillet knife -- both with the Rapala logo and the Normark logo.

The fixed blades are typically of the Finnish puukko or Swedish Mora design.

The Normark handles have a distinctive "sculpt" to them that differentiates them from the others of the same type.

The Finn Wolf is very like the Normark variation on the Marttiini puukko.

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/csstoreonline_1994_5052102

I'll have to dig up a picture for you.

[ArfinGreebly]

I left out one of the Finnish companies whose blades Normark rebranded: Fiskars.

By way of example, here is a Normark/Fiskars hunting knife.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=75935&d=1207529239

Fiskars made the blade (basic puukko pattern) and, either Fiskars put the Normark handle and logo on it, or Normark had that done elsewhere, but the result is Finnish knife with Finno-American company name.

Notice any similarity between that profile and the Cold Steel Finn Wolf above?

Maybe it's just me . . .

[TimboKhan]

You meet enough millionaires, and no matter how they appear, (which may in shorts and flip flops), or what they drive (goes the gambit from junk to expensive), they will try to impress you with something they did or have. These guys have a screw loose. But if it was not for that loose screw, they would not have overcome all obstacles to make it to the top of their trash pile.

Well, thats sterotypical. My best friend is himself a multi-millionaire, and his family overall are millionaires a few times over, and you will never find nicer, more down to earth people. Certainly they live a nicer life than most of us in terms of material goods, but it isn't something that they lord over anyone, nor do they care one bit about impressing anyone. They started out humble, grew their business (they were dairy people) as a family, made a good deal of money in that business and then decided to sell it. No climbing over trash piles, no busted ethics, no shady dealings. Just a ton of very hard work and sweat, which I think is probably truer of most wealthy people than might be imagined.

[hso]

Let's get back onto knives/CS/Lynn/etc. and off of the "happiness" of entrepreneurs.

If you've not met Lynn Thompson you don't know him. If you've met him, you may still not know him. I've been in plenty of gatherings with Lynn and his personality is reflected in his persona.

As to knife company owners and knife makers donating to "the troops", folks not in the knife community probably have no idea that there are no less than 3 different major "programs" donating knives to U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. Then there are the retailers and distributors who donate on their own. And finally, there are the custom makers who send knives at cost or even free to troops in-theater.

While the knife biz is very cut-throat it is also full of folks, from CEOs to stock reducer custom makers, who help each other out all the time.

[Browning]

ArfinGreebly : I left out one of the Finnish companies whose blades Normark rebranded: Fiskars.

By way of example, here is a Normark/Fiskars hunting knife.


Fiskars made the blade (basic puukko pattern) and, either Fiskars put the Normark handle and logo on it, or Normark had that done elsewhere, but the result is Finnish knife with Finno-American company name.

Notice any similarity between that profile and the Cold Steel Finn Wolf above?

Yeah, they look almost identical.

Is it me, or does that sheath not really match up with that style of knife?

[ArfinGreebly]

The knife and sheath match up much better when you see them in person.

The handle departs from the more traditional puukko handle, but fits that sheath nonetheless.

When I dig mine up, I'll post pics.

[The Tourist]

Just a ton of very hard work and sweat

As I hijack my own thread briefly, let me add that this is "the road to riches" more often than the silver spoon. In fact I know more 'workers' than guys in fancy pants.

I'm not even sure inherited wealth is a blessing. The wealthiest man I knew with an inheritance drank himself to death after he bankrupt his deceased father's company--all within five years.

Fortunately, and I do not use that word lightly, my Father and I had one of those relationships where there was a blend and animosity and respect. I wanted freedom more than money, and money was how he controlled people. The best thing he ever did for me was 'nothing.'

As for this cutlery debate, you should not plan on getting rich in this industry. There are very few who have truly made it. Almost all of the guys with money still work, and you can talk to them on the telephone.

If I had Lynn's ear, I'd simply tell him to transition to better products. It's a dangerous path. After all, Tony Marfione had some low periods. In fact, the story goes that he founded Microtech on a knife buying trip with his much wealthier friends.

But in a country where we once built steel we now build middle managers. Now granted, American middle managers are the best on the planet--they do absolutely nothing, as is their definition. They're just "in the middle."

However, a knife is a basic tool, a necessary tool. And if a cutting implement is that important, then there is no room for "cheap." Food must be nutritious, water must be potable, and a knife should be sharp and durable.

As a tinker, you don't take that for granted. A few days ago a client opened one of my packages and sampled the edge. I heard him mutter, "Oh, crap." My feeling at that moment was that the knife had been damaged in shipping or that the edge was not to his expectations. He countered that he was popping arm hair while we spoke. And I was relieved. My client now has a "tool."

If you cannot say that, get out of the business. I wouldn't send a client out with poisoned MRE's, defective brakes, a broken compass, or boots that leaked. For CS, I'd like to see a lot fewer medieval axes and a few more knives of a higher standard. Lynn obviously has the money, talent and connections to provide the finest knives on the planet.

[SeanSw]

The Finn wolf looks like it has a hollow ground edge, which in my opinion makes it a failure in this style. The Bear is a design improvement but I have never seen a reason to depart from the 'traditional' manufacturers making knives in this style.

My first folding pocketknife was a 3-blade Old Timer. The steel was hard as anything and held a great edge. It was replaced after being abused and breaking the tip off the main blade.....