Anti 2nd Amndmnt OpEd- in the WASHINGTON TIMES !


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2dogs
January 12, 2003, 10:14 AM
http://www.washingtontimes.com/commentary/20030112-27304071.htm

Interpreting the Second Amendment



Alex Gerber

The worldwide terrorist activity directed from abroad against the United States has given birth to a Homeland Security Department to help fulfill one of the primary responsibilities of government — provide for the public safety.
But if we honor the charge in the Preamble of our Constitution to "ensure domestic tranquility," it is surely not beyond the purview of this new agency to direct some of its attention to the domestic terror resulting from the guns overflowing our streets. Imagine the enormous uproar if the 30 murders daily from domestic gunfire resulted from al Qaeda terrorism.
Indeed, our health-care statistics would closely resemble those of the other Western industrialized societies were it not for our disproportionately higher homicide rate, chiefly due to firearms. This aberration, brought into sharp focus by the recent spree of sniper shootings, suggests an urgent need to review our gun-control laws.
Guns are now so easily accessible in our country that the restrictions imposed by the 1968 Gun Control Act are obviously enforced only in the breach. The more stringent gun control measures currently under discussion, licensing of firearms and a federal database to identify bullets and shell casings involved in crime, are not likely to go far. They simply do not meet the approval of the National Rifle Association.
The publicity swirling around the snipers and their upcoming trials will eventually simmer down, but not the strident voice of the NRA with its familiar battle cry about "our constitutional right to bear arms." Repeated polls indicating public support for more restrictive gun laws have been easily swept aside by this tightly controlled organization that is at the height of its power and has the clout to dominate gun politics.
Perhaps it is just as well. The tepid gun-control measures on the table (including the limitation of gun purchases by individuals to only 25 per year) would have minimal effect on the more than 200 million firearms already circulating around the country in civilian hands. More importantly, they would have no effect on the basic cause of our outrageous homicide rate — the misreading of the Second Amendment to the Constitution. Clearly, the NRA does not interpret this amendment as the Framers of the Constitution intended.
Rarely quoted is the clarifying preamble to the one sentence Second Amendment: "A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state," the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" (italics added). "Security" is the key word and refers to a problem completely irrelevant to our nation today.
By today's standards, crime was no serious problem in the largely rural New World, whose inhabitants seldom locked their doors. Aside from rifles for hunting, firearms played a minor role in everyday life. Unknown in Colonial days were serial killings, rival gangs engaged in driveby shootings, hospital emergency rooms flooded with victims of urban gunplay, epidemics of drug-related homicides, teenagers running amok and shooting fellow students, road rage gunfire, the Mafia .
The Second Amendment of our Constitution was obviously not concerned with the type of crimes displayed nightly on our TV screens. Rather, as brilliantly spelled out by James Madison in the Federalist Papers, the wording of the Second Amendment was a reflection of the political climate in Europe at the time. Authored by James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and John Jay, the Federalist Papers were published in 1887-88 to influence the state of New York to ratify the Constitution.
Regarding the Second Amendment, the Federalist Papers focused on the tyrannical kingdoms overseas that would be "speedily overturned" were the people allowed to bear arms. The civilian militia proposed in the Second Amendment was considered an "advantage" the new nation "would possess over the people of almost every other nation" and would serve as a "barrier" to "the despotism which was the scourge of the Old World."
Our Founding Fathers were so wary of a tyrannical central governments that the Federalist Papers proposed a small standing army that would be outnumbered 20-to-1 by a civilian militia. Further, the officers of the army were to be appointed by the individual states, and the money appropriations by Congress were forbidden for a period longer than two years.
But the political landscape in Europe has changed over the past two centuries, and the well-warranted fears of our Founding Fathers are clearly not germane today. Even Charlton Heston, whose rifle would have to be "torn from his cold, dead hands," would agree that the need for a civilian armed militia to prevent the takeover of our government has no validity in the 21st century. To reason otherwise is ludicrous, else the gunslingers of America should augment their arsenal with tanks, anti-aircraft guns and mortars.
Concepts which become outdated were fully allowed for by the prescient intellectual giants who framed our Constitution. "In framing a system which we wish to last for ages, we should not lose sight of the changes which ages will bring."
The NRA has muddied the gun-control waters by insisting that the "militia" in the Second Amendment is not a collective noun, and also can be applied to an individual. But Madison's rhetoric on this point is the essence of clarity as has been repeatedly reaffirmed by our Founding Fathers, our courts and our lexicon. A few examples will suffice:
• In the Virginia 1776 Bill of Rights is found: "A well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people .
• In 1990, the Supreme Court ruled that the National Guard was the only rightful owner of the militia label.
• In December 2002, the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that individuals had no right to bear arms under the Second Amendment.
• The dictionary defines militia as: (a) an army of citizens who are not regular soldiers but who undergo training for emergency duty or national defenses. (b) Every state of the United States has a militia called the National Guard.
Despite these legal decisions by the highest courts of the land and our English grammar, Attorney General John Ashcroft, undoubtedly with the blessing of President Bush, has assured the NRA that the Second Amendment gives an individual the right to bear arms. We evidently have an administration that not only sets itself above the law, but has little use for a dictionary.
Badly needed in the U.S. are strict gun-control laws aimed at removing guns from the streets and reducing a firearm homicide rate from 10 to a 100 times higher than that of other civilized nations. In developing such laws, perhaps we should consider, with reservations reflecting our culture and traditions, the firearm penalties meted out in countries whose populations are among the safest in the world — e.g., Singapore. There is a certain appeal about living in an atmosphere where one can walk down the darkest alley at midnight without a second thought.

Alex Gerber, M.D., is a clinical professor of surgery, emeritus, at the University of Southern California and formerly was a health-care consultant to the White House and the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services

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Blackcloud6
January 12, 2003, 10:17 AM
Hey Doc, stick to surgery, OK?

Airwolf
January 12, 2003, 10:26 AM
Alex Gerber, M.D., is a clinical professor of surgery, emeritus, at the University of Southern California and formerly was a health- care consultant to the White House and the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services

I guess I'll start getting my medical advice from American Handgunner now since it would seem the doctors are too busy being experts on Constitutional interpretation, American history and firearms safety.

If I said what I REALLY thought about this I'd be banned for life from the board. :cuss: :banghead: :cuss: :banghead: :cuss: :banghead: :cuss: :banghead:

cuchulainn
January 12, 2003, 12:25 PM
penalties meted out in countries whose populations are among the safest in the world — e.g., Singapore.

Dude, they cane people for chewing gum in public.


Anti 2nd Amndmnt OpEd- in the WASHINGTON TIMES !

This is not an OpEd. It is an Op. Don't confuse the Op (opinion piece) with the Ed (editorial).

An opinion piece is written by a guest writer and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of the newspaper. Nearly all papers give space to views oposite of theirs. The Washington Times regularly gives space to non-conservative views in its opinion section.

An editorial is the view of the paper. This is not an editorial.

2dogs
January 12, 2003, 12:34 PM
This is not an OpEd. It is an Op

cuchulainn

I know the difference. I didn't think "Op" made sense in the subject- most folks know what "OpEd" refers to. :)

JPM70535
January 12, 2003, 12:44 PM
My parents always told me if you can't say something nice about somebody don't say anything

............................................................................

Pointman
January 12, 2003, 01:00 PM
This Opinion piece is so full of factual and contectual holes it makes me want to... where's that barfing smilie when I need it?

:fire:

I think the only thing the author left out was to identify GO's and the NRA as racists, as the libs and globalists are doing to the AZ border patrols in todays Washington Post Border Patrols Article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43308-2003Jan11.html). Though the author of that article at least tried to offer a bit of both sides.

I believe they're laying ground work in the mind of the Sheeple to make their assault on renewing the 1994 GCA... I expect we're going to see a building tide of this over the next couple of years...

cuchulainn
January 12, 2003, 01:07 PM
2dogs,

:) I wasn't suggesting that you should have used "Op." I simply was trying to say that there's nothing odd about a conservative, pro-2nd paper running an opinion piece that contradicts those views ... or vice versa.

Now, if this had been an editorial from the WT, then we ought to be surprised.

55645
January 12, 2003, 01:53 PM
This may not be the editorial position of the Washington Times but they may be testing the waters. Make no mistake, newspapers are very careful about which op-eds they publish. The Times is not considered a real newspaper by the rest of the leftist media. One way for a conservative publication to gain some legitimacy is to go anti-gun. All the respected papers are anti-gun so in order to have even a chance at respectability a newspaper must jettison a pro 2A stance. The Chicago Tribune was once considered a conservative paper but since they've become a national media company they have become rabidly anti-gun. There is not much downside as pro 2A readers have come to expect it everywhere they look anyway. Soon the only option left to pro 2A readers may be the web.

2dogs
January 12, 2003, 02:39 PM
55645

Another example is the NY Post which is conservative in both news reporting and editorial stance, but I don't think I've ever read anything "pro gun" there either.:scrutiny:

Generally the editorials in Washington Times tend toward pro gun, pro 2nd Amendment, so it did seem odd to read the guest piece there. Maybe trying for FNC "fair and balanced" thing?

Blackhawk
January 12, 2003, 03:32 PM
Badly needed in the U.S. are strict gun-control laws aimed at removing guns from the streets.... The doc's showing just a glimmer of being right here. However, we have laws designed to do just that. Why are guns on the streets in the first place?

Inkling: The laws are NOT being enforced accordomg to their legislative intent. How many of those who commit their first "gun crime" have never committed a violent crime before? Can you say "very few", Doc?

To "remove guns from the streets" is easy. Enforce the laws, convict the criminals, make them serve their sentences (their whole sentences), and monitor them up until the time they're pardoned.

Boats
January 12, 2003, 03:45 PM
Give the Washington Times a break. When was the last time the Washington Post, NYT, or any other easily identified "liberal" paper ran a pro-RKBA article by anybody? To all those blissninnies that would criticize the Times as a right-wing propaganda organ, it is instructive to such critics that the Times offers more diversity of opinion than does the party-line liberal media of which those self-same critics are so fond.

Bruce H
January 12, 2003, 04:32 PM
What is the good doctors answer for all the death and missed diagnosis by the medical profession? Oh right this is about an object, not humans.

cuchulainn
January 12, 2003, 05:15 PM
I've seen numerous anti-gun piecesin the Wash Times over the years (though, yes, I've seen a lot more pro gun). This signifies nothing.

55645,

I've seen pro-gun pieces in both the Wash Post and NYT, but you're right generally that the Wash Times does a better job of getting all sides in.

Then again, the Wash Times has three pages of opinion each day while the Wash Post, NYT and others generally have only one page, so the Wash Times has more opportunity to get diverse ideas.

Kjay
January 12, 2003, 05:40 PM
So let's assume that the good Doctor has all his facts right. The answer is what? Remove all or some firearms from the public at large? Throw away the key with gun related crimes? What? These folks seem to think that all you have to do is remove firearms and everyone suddenly starts to play nice. Do the beasties in our society suddenly cease their mayhem when a gun is not available? Perhaps they simply resort to another tool? :banghead:

2dogs
January 14, 2003, 06:28 AM
http://www.washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20030114-73662656.htm#4

Anti-gun column misfires
Dr. Alex Gerber's column "Interpreting the Second Amendment" (Commentary, Sunday) would have been more appropriately placed in the Comics section if it didn't deal with such a deadly serious topic. His suggestion that the recently created Homeland Security Department be used as a vehicle to advance the national gun-control movement is precisely one of the worst fears law-abiding Americans had about the creation of this new government agency in the first place.
Dr. Gerber prattles on with the usual complaint by the disarmament crowd that the Second Amendment only grants the "militia" the right to own guns, not individuals. He backed up his argument by referring to a recent ruling by the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco saying just that.
Now, if memory serves me correctly, the 9th Circuit Court is perhaps the most left-wing court in the nation, located in arguably the most left-wing major city in the nation. It also has the dubious distinction as being the most overturned court in the nation. Recall, also, that this is the same court which ruled that the Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional because it includes the words "under God."
Anyone who relies on any ruling coming out of the 9th Circuit Court for a reasonable and constitutional argument on just about any issue confronting the American people today ought to have their head examined — and maybe even be drug tested.

CHUCK MUTH
Executive Director
American Conservative Union
Alexandria


Dr. Alex Gerber's argument for strict gun control is logical, but as it bears little resemblance to reality, does not make sense.
The Second Amendment is elegant in its simplicity, but can be parsed in a number of ways. Dr. Gerber correctly notes that the condition that prompted the Founding Fathers to frame the amendment — the necessity of a militia — no longer applies as it originally did. However, the reference to a "well-regulated militia" resides in the one-sentence amendment's dependent clause, and the "right of the people" to keep arms appears in the amendment's independent clause, thus giving it weight over the militia reference.
The Founders predicated the Constitution upon the guarantee of God-given rights to a people who, in turn, must then exercise them with civic responsibility. Hence, the right to keep and bear arms is tempered with the expectation that citizens will exercise that right responsibly. There are legal uses for firearms and there are illegal uses, and the distinction should be enforced by law.
The argument that a disarmed public will be a safer one is just plain fatuous. The 200 million guns that are in the hands of private Americans are durable goods that, with a minimum of care, will remain deadly instruments for a long time. Don't expect gun owners voluntarily to turn them in to be smelted down. Should "the people" successfully be disarmed, black market guns would still be readily available to criminals, who do not obey the law anyway. The experiences of Great Britain and Australia, which in recent years have strictly limited private gun ownership only to see an exponential rise in gun crime, should serve as fair warning.
Lastly, it is pointless for Dr. Gerber to compare Singapore (no guns allowed, low crime rates) to the United States. (guns allowed, but with inadequate enforcement of existing laws).Compared to the United States, Singapore has one-tenth the population and a tiny fraction of the land mass. More importantly, Singapore's history and culture differs so radically with that of the United States as to make the comparison invalid.

ROSS KIMMEL
Arnold, Md.

Chris Rhines
January 14, 2003, 08:49 AM
...a Homeland Security Department to help fulfill one of the primary responsibilities of government — provide for the public safety. Riiiiiiiiiight. I have just a bit of trouble taking anyone who says that seriously. Must be a character flaw.

But if we honor the charge in the Preamble of our Constitution to "ensure domestic tranquility," it is surely not beyond the purview of this new agency to direct some of its attention to the domestic terror resulting from the guns overflowing our streets. Anyone else find that just chilling?

- Chris

ReadyontheRight
January 14, 2003, 11:54 AM
Anyone else find that just chilling?

Yes.

"Give us your guns, don't go out after curfew and do whatever the Domestic Tranquility officers tell you and WE ensure that all you people will be tranquil".

I guess he chooses to ignore the "...secure the blessings of liberty..." part.

P.S. I keep looking for a MAC-10 or an Uzi "overflowing in the streets", but I guess they keep getting picked up by some other evil NRA member.

Moondancer
January 14, 2003, 12:12 PM
Well, now... it seems to me that since the 2nd Amendment is no longer valid, what with all the changes that couldn't have been envisioned by the authors back in the 1700s, that should apply to the 1st Amendment also.

After all, no-one back then could have foreseen radio, television, or the internet either! So... no freedom of speech in these mediums.

What a slippery slope this can become if the liberals applied their "logic" to all the Amendments!

Drizzt
January 27, 2003, 06:04 PM
The Washington Times


January 26, 2003, Sunday, Final Edition

SECTION: LETTERS; FORUM; Pg. B05

LENGTH: 864 words

HEADLINE: Gerber off-target on gun facts

BYLINE: THE WASHINGTON TIMES

BODY:
Dr. Alex Gerber's concern about homicide rates in modern America is commendable ["Interpreting the Second Amendment," Jan. 12, 2003]. However, he has both his facts and his history wrong regarding the causes of this high rate.

First, he asserts the U.S. homicide rate is attributable to our high rate of ownership of firearms. There are nations with high rates of gun ownership, but with lower homicide rates than the U.S. - such as Norway, Canada, New Zealand and Switzerland. All adult males in Switzerland are members of the Swiss militia. They maintain their service weapons in their homes and they keep them after their term of service is completed due to age. In 1998, official Swiss police statistics reported 66 cases in which guns were used in attempted or successful homicides, 64 cases in which they were used to inflict bodily harm and another 475 cases in which firearms were used in armed robberies.

If merely having a gun available somehow "made" or even just predisposed people to commit homicide, homicide rates should be very high not only in the countries mentioned above but also among those who carry guns on their jobs in the U.S., such as FBI agents and air marshals, and in regions in the U.S. with higher rates of gun ownership, such as rural areas, but they are not. Firearm homicide results from a decision by an individual to kill a person with a gun, not from the mere presence of the weapon.

Dr. Gerber also states that the higher U.S. homicide rate is due to "the misreading of the Second Amendment to the Constitution." Dr. Gerber seems to take some of his "evidence" from the now thoroughly discredited work of Michael Bellesiles, who apparently made up much of the "evidence" in his book, "Arming America: The Origins of a National Gun Culture," instead of from recognized scholars in the field of study Dr. Gerber addresses.

Dr. Gerber says, "Aside from rifles for hunting, firearms played a minor role in everyday life." Joyce Lee Malcolm, one scholar in the field, states: "All men between the ages of 16 and 60 were liable for militia service with some exceptions. ... The dangers all the Colonies faced, however, were so great that not only militia members but all householders were ordered to be armed" and that "Colonial law ... required Colonists to carry weapons," even to church.

Ms. Malcolm further states, "The Second Amendment was meant to accomplish two distinct goals, ... [f]irst, ... to guarantee the individual's right to bear arms for self-defense and self preservation ... [and second] to express the preference for a militia over a standing army [and to state] that it was the militia, not the army, that was necessary to the security of a free state." Based on her historical research, Ms. Malcolm states: "The argument that today's National Guardsmen, members of a select militia, would constitute the only persons entitled to keep and bear arms has no historical foundation. ... A select militia was considered little better than a standing army."

As Dr. Gerber himself points out, the militia was to be "composed of the body of the people," that is, each and every citizen. However, this verbiage wasn't included in the final wording of the Second Amendment; nor was the phrase "well-armed." "These changes left open the possibility of a poorly armed and narrowly based militia that many Americans feared might be the result of federal control. Yet the [Second] amendment guaranteed that the right of 'the people' to have arms not be infringed. Whatever the future composition of the militia, therefore, however well- or ill-armed, was not crucial because the people's right to have weapons was to be sacrosanct. As was the case in the English tradition, the arms in the hands of the people, not the militia, are relied upon 'to restrain the violence of oppression.' "

Dr. Gerber concludes by asserting that strict gun control laws mean "one can walk down the darkest alley at midnight without a second thought." While one can probably do just that in countries such as Switzerland, Norway, and New Zealand, with their high rates of gunownership, one can do so no longer in Great Britain, where the gun-control laws are more strict now than they have been in recent memory. In fact, since the passage of these stricter laws, crime rates in Britain have skyrocketed and citizens are not safe from assault even in their own homes.

Dr. Gerber is without doubt well meaning, but he confuses the instrument of a particular type of violence, the gun, with all of the complexity of human beings that contribute to any act of violence or indeed of any act with easily predicted bad consequences. On the one hand, he believes humans are simply passive beings who do whatever their immediate circumstances lead them to do, since they can't be trusted to have a gun without using it; on the other, he believes human nature is so perfectible that we can mock the Founders' concerns about tyranny.

Disagreeing on issues is part of the Founders' plan for the United States, but such discussions must be based on fact and truth.

LISA W. KEEP, M.D. and Master's in Public Health

Standing Wolf
January 27, 2003, 10:00 PM
Badly needed in the U.S. are strict gun-control laws aimed at removing guns from the streets...

I've never seen a gun on a street in my entire life. They're always in people's hands, or holsters, or desk drawers, or closet shelves, or...

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