Nordic Components AR22 Teaser


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Zak Smith
March 27, 2008, 12:41 PM
http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-Components-AR22/smaller/D462_5169_img.jpg

"Just add 10/22"

I'll have more photos of this kit and the assembled rifle shortly. Review in the pipeline.

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Jdoc
March 27, 2008, 12:48 PM
available for purchase some were i have a 10/22 i am i am looking to do something with.

Zak Smith
March 27, 2008, 12:51 PM
http://www.jprifles.com/1.2.10.php

taliv
March 27, 2008, 01:55 PM
oh, now that IS tempting

rbernie
March 27, 2008, 03:05 PM
Oooooh, I'm likin' THAT.

jlbraun
March 27, 2008, 03:08 PM
Accuracy?

Zak Smith
March 27, 2008, 05:28 PM
http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-Components-AR22/smaller/D462_5239_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-Components-AR22/?small=D462_5239_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-Components-AR22/?small=D462_5239_img.jpg)
http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-Components-AR22/smaller/D462_5246_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-Components-AR22/?small=D462_5246_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-Components-AR22/?small=D462_5246_img.jpg)
http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-Components-AR22/smaller/D462_5251_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-Components-AR22/?small=D462_5251_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-Components-AR22/?small=D462_5251_img.jpg)
http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-Components-AR22/smaller/D462_5255_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-Components-AR22/?small=D462_5255_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-Components-AR22/?small=D462_5255_img.jpg)


re: accuracy. I'll shoot it for groups this weekend. It should be no worse than the 10/22 you built into it considering the barrel is fully floated and the rail mounts directly to the receiver top.

taliv
March 27, 2008, 05:43 PM
hey zak, what's the deal with the barrel. i can't tell from your pictures.

is this right?: the barrel is a vanilla 10/22 barrel that interfaces with the regular 10/22 receiver, both of which sit inside the nordic parts, which in turn attach to the forearm.

i guess what's making me question that is, what barrel do you have in those photos? is it common to find 10/22 barrels threaded same as 223 barrels?

Zak Smith
March 27, 2008, 07:00 PM
You drop in a 10/22 barreled action.

I had a stock 10/22 barrel threaded 1/2-28, which fits AR-15 muzzle devices and common .22LR suppressors.

BlisteringSilence
March 28, 2008, 04:50 AM
Zak:

I like it. I like it a lot.

This is mine. (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=350523)

Titan6
March 28, 2008, 07:21 AM
Clearly that is an assault weapon, you can tell just by looking at it. Certain to terrorize little old ladies in the senate.

rbernie
March 28, 2008, 11:18 AM
Finally, a viable reason to buy a scad of SteelLips mags....

Zak Smith
March 30, 2008, 10:43 PM
An excellent training tool. I think we shot over 500 rounds in a few hours of mostly shoot-n-move practice. In my regular AR-15, that would have cost about $230 vs. under $30. At this rate, the .22 "trainer" rifle pays for itself in a half dozen or less practice sessions.

http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-AR22-Action/smaller/D462_5605_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-AR22-Action/?small=D462_5605_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-AR22-Action/?small=D462_5605_img.jpg)
http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-AR22-Action/smaller/D462_5472_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-AR22-Action/?small=D462_5472_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-AR22-Action/?small=D462_5472_img.jpg)
http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-AR22-Action/smaller/D462_5594_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-AR22-Action/?small=D462_5594_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-AR22-Action/?small=D462_5594_img.jpg)
http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-AR22-Action/smaller/D462_5437_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-AR22-Action/?small=D462_5437_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/photo/Nordic-AR22-Action/?small=D462_5437_img.jpg)

Dksimon
April 5, 2008, 03:08 AM
How much would the full conversion be? i see that the kit offered does not include butt stock or flass suppressor.

plexreticle
April 5, 2008, 03:47 AM
What trigger group are you using on that set up?

I'm thinking I may do a rebuild on my 10-22.

Zak Smith
April 5, 2008, 09:52 AM
You can use the stock 10/22 trigger pack.

Really, all you have to scrounge up is a stock, grip, and float tube. You can go the expensive route (see above) or just use a take-off CAR/A2, etc.

-z

RangerM9
April 5, 2008, 12:08 PM
oooooo.....me like.......nice option to the RB evolution stock which is darn hard to find.....

mljdeckard
April 5, 2008, 12:15 PM
Can you attach standard AR or flip-up sights?

ArmedBear
April 5, 2008, 12:17 PM
No comprender.

For a trainer, why not just get a .22LR AR upper and make use of your favorite AR's existing high-end trigger, stock and grip upgrades with a quick, no-tools upper swap, all while maintaining the exact geometry and balance of the .223 if you want?

By the time one has added the parts to this thing, the upper on an existing lower is more economical.

There's nothing wrong with yet another way to pour money into a 10/22, but once you have spent hundreds of dollars on the perfect AR lower assembly, why not leverage that?

EDIT: Oh... It seems you have a tax stamp on the 10/22. That's a damn good reason... :)

Titan6
April 5, 2008, 01:00 PM
I like it. I have built my son something similar but his component set-ups are not as high end and no suppresor.

I have been debating the suppressor and buying a few more 10/22s. The platform is easy to work with and with the right set up obtains decent accuracy.

I wanted to just get a suppressed match barrel but understand that swaping one back and forth between guns means go to jail.

ArmedBear
April 5, 2008, 02:32 PM
I wanted to just get a suppressed match barrel but understand that swaping one back and forth between guns means go to jail.

That's sure one good reason to do an AR build instead. The lower receiver has the serial number.

So far, I'm liking my .22LR upper, far better than I've ever liked the 10/22, one way or another.

taliv
April 5, 2008, 02:39 PM
suppressors themselves (even in the case of integrally suppressed barrels) are normally registered, not the rifle (unless you're talking about SBR or FA). so you can move a suppressor from one rifle to another legally.

ArmedBear
April 5, 2008, 03:20 PM
Ah. In that case there's no reason I can think of to build one of these as an AR trainer, especially if you have a $200 trigger and a $200 buttstock already on an AR lower.

A .22LR upper costs $475 built, and comes with the foreend, threaded barrel, etc. No need to add a 10/22, or anything else.

Gewehr98
April 5, 2008, 03:24 PM
But I doubt there's much accuracy advantage compared to what folks do to their Ruger 10/22s sans the AR-15 goodies. I'd angle for the .22 Rimfire AR conversion if I was that bent on a rimfire AR.

http://mauser98.com/bigammotest.jpg

Titan6
April 5, 2008, 04:48 PM
suppressors themselves (even in the case of integrally suppressed barrels) are normally registered, not the rifle (unless you're talking about SBR or FA). so you can move a suppressor from one rifle to another legally.

I got some bad info then. I need to go back and relook it.

A .22LR upper costs $475 built, and comes with the foreend, threaded barrel, etc. No need to add a 10/22, or anything else.

Let's see for $475 I can get a 10/22, match barrel, AR style stock, improved bolt, several magazines, inexpensive scope and a few other add-ons and have a whole different gun.

I think if I was married to the AR platform a little more I might go the AR way. But I only have a couple and mostly use them to keep sharp when we are not shooting much at work.

ArmedBear
April 6, 2008, 09:28 PM
Let's see for $475 I can get a 10/22, match barrel, AR style stock, improved bolt, several magazines, inexpensive scope and a few other add-ons and have a whole different gun.

This kit alone is over $200, doesn't come with a stock or foreend, so this doesn't add up, if you want an AR trainer, which is how this was touted above.

If you just want a sort-of-AR-like 10/22, you can just drop it in a Tapco stock. The point of this thing is apparently to give one the ability to add AR accessories. That's what I don't think adds up, especially if you have your AR already set up with a nice trigger and upgraded stock.

I'm not married to the 10/22, myself, as I think one would have to be, in order to pay for this. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with that; I just can't see that this thing is economical or as worthwhile as a .22LR upper as an AR trainer, even though the upper DOES run $475 and up.

Now as an expensive toy that that shoots .22LR, I can't argue with it, or anything else. There's no logic to that, and far be it from me to try to find any, especially given the growing number of varied and often not inexpensive .22 rimfire guns that seem to follow me home.:)

...I no longer even own a 10/22 or 10/22-based gun of any kind and I STILL seem to spend money on .22s... What're ya gonna do?

Zak Smith
April 6, 2008, 11:06 PM
Can you attach standard AR or flip-up sights?
Yes, however, the tube & barrel are slightly lower relative to the receiver so you need a spacer or different FST which Nordic will have available.

ArmedBear,

I'm with you to some extent. My results with the Ceiner kit were not great. 10/22 advocates "assure" me that the 10/22 can be made to run more reliably.

But I doubt there's much accuracy advantage compared to what folks do to their Ruger 10/22s sans the AR-15 goodies.
It's an orthogonal issue, since the barrel is completely free floated and the rail is connected directly to the receiver.

ArmedBear
April 6, 2008, 11:30 PM
I'm with you to some extent. My results with the Ceiner kit were not great. 10/22 advocates "assure" me that the 10/22 can be made to run more reliably.

This just uses the Ciener bolt, not the chamber adapter, since the barrel is purpose-built with a .22LR chamber and 1:15 twist.

So far, mine has worked a lot better than my 10/22 ever did, but I never got into tinkering with my 10/22, so I can't be sure what it "could have been made" to do.:)

In another thread, I asked about ammo, and the answer I got was that the Ciener bolt likes 40 grain HV. That's true, though bulk Golden Bullets 36 gr. HP's work fine in it (as well as they do in anything else). Velocitors run flawlessly, but they are hardly cheap. I shot a few hundred lead PMC Sidewinders through it, with only a few misfeeds -- this is the best I've ever seen these rounds work in a semiauto rifle. These are CHEAP unplated lead rounds, made in Mexico. I don't think they sell them any more. They're really dirty, though they are accurate. They tend not to feed too well in anything semiauto, except for the Ruger Mark II, which is probably the most ammo-tolerant .22LR ever made. They really don't work worth crap in a 10/22. But they worked fine in the AR, with a few "doubles" that had to be cleared. Shot almost a brick of them, along with other ammo I was trying. Fouling did not seem to bother the gun at all.

So I'd say that the Ciener does prefer better-quality ammo, but it's a pretty good system, definitely better than my stock Ruger rifle was. It takes a lot more to get it fouled up than a 10/22 or Marlin 60. It might be a tad more ammo-finicky than the 60, but so far it's worked surprisingly well. So far I've only used CLP as lube. I'll have to try some more .22LR-whiz-bang lube like Slip 2000 or something, also.

It's an orthogonal issue, since the barrel is completely free floated and the rail is connected directly to the receiver.

The only problem I see is if you really want to make it work like an AR with a front sight tower. With just a scope on it, it's just a fancy-looking free-floated 10/22, not really an AR practice gun IMHO.

ugaarguy
April 6, 2008, 11:55 PM
Zak, slightly OT, but I see that you have a Magpul UBR stock on both your AR15 and the AR22. Have you heard anything on when Magpul might be selling production UBR stocks?

Edit: Just saw in very fine print on their website that Magpul says the UBR stock will be in stock April 30th. I hope that's true.

How did the AR22 kit perform as far as cheek weld and eye relief compared to an AR-15 with the optics you show mounted?

Zak Smith
April 7, 2008, 12:00 AM
I tried all manner of ammo in my Ciener and gave up. It just didn't run good enough. Plus, the guy isn't a real pleasure to deal with. The 10/22 "donor" action in this gun isn't yet 100% with subsonic ammo, but it's getting closer.

The only problem I see is if you really want to make it work like an AR with a front sight tower. With just a scope on it, it's just a fancy-looking free-floated 10/22, not really an AR practice gun IMHO.
The vast majority of AR's have some type of optic mounted. The military is going to Aimpoints and TA31's as standard issue. In 3-Gun competition, "Tactical" division is the most popular by usually 2-4x over the next most popular class; "Limited" is the least popular. I don't follow your point. Once Nordic has the parts available, you'll be able to use a standard FST. However, even as a practice setup with an optic, it is an AR practice gun (more than it's not) due to the geometry. There are a few differences in controls.

Zak Smith
April 7, 2008, 12:00 AM
How did the AR22 kit perform as far as cheek weld and eye relief compared to an AR-15 with the optics you show mounted?It's identical. The only thing that feels different is that there is no charging handle to index your nose on.

Newguy1
August 10, 2008, 05:08 PM
Holy Necro-Post!

Any Updates? I am looking at getting one of these up and running.

Avenger29
August 10, 2008, 07:40 PM
Ya'll should take a look at what Tactical Solutions has cooked up.

Zak is talking about reliablity of the Ciener kits and Ciener based uppers. Up until now, every .22 caliber AR-15 upper I am aware of until now has used at least Ciener bolts. with the Tactical Solutions bolt and barrel, you can build an upper (or buy one), if you are looking for a .22LR AR-15 trainer.

Nordic Components setup:

$200 for the kit

$200 for the 10/22

$130+ for a new 10/22 barrel

Say $100 for the new furniture...

Total: $630+ for the setup...$500 w/o replacing the bbl.

TacSol setup:

I think the bbl and bolt is $460. Add $150 for an upper, IIRC, total around $600. I'm not going to pull up the TacSol website right now (on dialup here), but those are the figures I could come up with on top of my head. TacSol may now be offering complete uppers, too.

Domino
August 10, 2008, 09:48 PM
No doubt those kits are NICE but it seems like it may be a bit much for a glorified 10/22. I mean, if you just want an AR-15 trainer wouldn't it be just as viable and logical to get a stock 10/22, put it in a TAPCO T6, mount a red dot or tech sight, and get a bunch of BC steel lip magazines? It would certainly be a lot cheaper even if the results weren't as nice.

You guys are talking about spending $600+

Price list for what I'm talking about...

Ruger 10/22 16.5" - $236

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_59_79/products_id/19122

Tapco T6 - $79.95

http://www.combatstocks.com/TAPCO_Fusion_System_for_Ruger_10_22_STK63160B.cfm

Weaver mount $15.99

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=531713

Tasco Pro Point Red Dot - $66.99

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=686150


Total investment - ~$400

Zak Smith
August 14, 2008, 08:45 PM
I am looking forward to the "new" dedicated .22LR AR-15 uppers. The AR22 is nice for training-- but makes most economic sense if you already have a pile of old take-off AR-15 parts.

Afy
August 15, 2008, 05:41 AM
I am looking forward to reading your .50 BMG article...

elmerfudd
August 15, 2008, 01:04 PM
If I were some sort of super secret contractor and I needed to practice cheaply with an AR style platform, I'd think I'd want an AR in 22lr. The 10/22 might look similar, but it's not the same animal. The safety, charging handle, mag release, etc... are all different. I'd think that by doing most of your practice with an AR style 10/22 you'd actually build up bad habits. Imagine putting a few thousand rounds downrange with the 10/22 then going into a combat situation with an M4. The controls are all different and you just spent hours memorizing the wrong actions.

twofourthree73
August 15, 2008, 01:45 PM
If I were some sort of super secret contractor and I needed to practice cheaply with an AR style platform, I'd think I'd want an AR in 22lr. The 10/22 might look similar, but it's not the same animal. The safety, charging handle, mag release, etc... are all different. I'd think that by doing most of your practice with an AR style 10/22 you'd actually build up bad habits. Imagine putting a few thousand rounds downrange with the 10/22 then going into a combat situation with an M4. The controls are all different and you just spent hours memorizing the wrong actions.

I agree. Anyone with an AR-15 already is better off buying a dedicated .22 upper and some black dog magazines. You could match everything to your main AR so the weight and feel would be the same, as well as all the controls.

If you want a plinker for your kid and have spare parts laying around, this might be a good thing.

Kit $250 + $300 for 10/22 and accessories=$550

AR-15 lower $250 + .22 lr AR-15 upper $550= $800

Savings by going with the kit = $250
It's a no brainer if you already have an AR-15 I would think.

Dirtypacman
August 15, 2008, 03:11 PM
I like it pretty evil looking 22

Avenger29
August 15, 2008, 03:20 PM
Kit $250 + $300 for 10/22 and accessories=$550

AR-15 lower $250 + .22 lr AR-15 upper $550= $800

Savings by going with the kit = $250
It's a no brainer if you already have an AR-15 I would think.

You don't even need a dedicated AR-15 lower. You could just use your existing AR lower and swap uppers. Just push a couple of pins...only takes a few seconds to swap uppers, of course...So by not buying the dedicated lower, your costs are equal...

jburnett
August 26, 2008, 03:10 PM
Well... I have a couple of Norrell F/A 10/22's so I AM heavily invested in my 10/22's... :D Having said that I love this idea. I have a little short (see pic) cutdown Choate folder on one of the Norrell's with a 7.5" bull bbl... I have looked at other "chassis systems" for the 10/22 like Tapco's, I've used the old Muzzlelite bullpups, the new Evolution chassis that also uses AR stocks and pistol grips and I've like none of them. Primarily my reasoning is since these are NFA's anyway and I happen to like compact, short submachineguns I wanted a shorter bbl. than ALL stocks offer without going apepoopie with a Sawzall or my Bridgeport. The AR-22 stock alleviates that issue for me. Plus, I also have an M16 set up as an M4 (that has a nice WORKING Ciener conversion) so familiarity is a plus though not a necessity. I dunno...I dig it which is probably why I just ordered one through Brownell's this morning.
-J.Burnett

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/DeepFreezeCryo/More%20Gun%20Stuff/GunStuff011.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/DeepFreezeCryo/More%20Gun%20Stuff/GunStuff010.jpg

Quarterbore
September 18, 2008, 04:55 PM
How difficult is it to clean the receiver with it mounted in this kit? I have teh Krinker kit with my Norrell trigger pack and my biggest issue is how much of a PITA it is to put together and the impossible nature with taking it apart to clean it.

With a supressed full auto 22, things get dirty fast!

I like the concept so much I may buy one and remove my trigger pack from the sale boards as I am not getting any serious bites anyways...

ArmedBear
September 18, 2008, 05:23 PM
Any Updates? I am looking at getting one of these up and running.

Yes.

I've now put thousands of rounds through my Model 1 dedicated .22LR upper with a Ciener bolt, and it has worked flawlessly. Occasional cleaning is all it needs. A drop or two of oil every brick, cleaning ever 2 or 3.

The extra space in an AR receiver vs. a regular .22 semi leaves plenty of room for massive fouling buildup, thus more time between cleanings. Cleaning the thing is simple and easy, allows a rod from the breech without modification, and requires no tools and no spring-wrestling. Light years better than a 10/22 in every respect.

As I said, you can make use of whatever high-end trigger your AR has, and you'll have the exact same feel -- since you can use the same lower. Ditto for any expensive aftermarket AR grips and buttstocks you may have.

The Ciener magazine spring is very light and infinitely more pleasant to load than a 10/22 mag. All my other .22 repeating rifles are tube load now; I hate most .22 stack mags. However, the Ciener mag works flawlessly, cleans as easily as an AR mag, and is the only non-thumbuster .22 stack mag I've used. No sore thumb, even after shooting a brick.

There's no way in HELL I'd spend money on this 10/22 kit, given my extremely positive experiences with a .22LR AR upper. IMO, the AR is the only .22 that can compete with a Marlin lever for reliability and fun factor.

Chris Rhines
September 18, 2008, 08:33 PM
One issue that no one has brought up (until now!) - loading time.

The Butler Creek speedloader for 10/22 magazines lets me load a 30-round magazine in about ten seconds. Loading an AR-22 magaizne by hand takes a minute or two. If you plan on doing serious, high-round-count practice (500-1000 rounds at a time), this will add up quickly.

If there were a similar speedloader for an AR-22 magazine, then the AR-22 would walk away in every category. Without the speedloader, I'm leaning more towards the 10/22 conversion.

- Chris

ArmedBear
September 19, 2008, 12:00 AM
What have you done to a 10/22 to get it to shoot two bricks in a session?

For me (and my friends) they stop feeding worth a crap at about 250 rounds.

Chris Rhines
September 20, 2008, 12:03 PM
Not a thing, other than going real light on the lube.

However, on the matter of speedloaders... http://blackdogmachinellc.net/images/view.aspx?productId=13&index=1

Heh.

- Chris

Walkalong
September 22, 2008, 07:37 PM
Interesting. I have a 10/22 languishing in the safe. :)

Nordic Components setup:

$200 for the kit

$200 for the 10/22

$130+ for a new 10/22 barrel

Say $100 for the new furniture...

$200 for the Kit

I have the 10/22 which is rarely being used - $0

Why a new barrel? Ok A Green Mountain barrel - $130

I have an AR stock & grip laying around - $0

Inexpensive Float Tube - $45

$375 - $245 without a new barrel - :D

rem2429
September 24, 2008, 12:17 AM
I have all the parts lying around except a float tube...
It is cost effective if you are the average 10/22 and ar15 builder

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