weird picture on CNN of AK-47


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evilelvis
March 27, 2008, 02:48 PM
I can't tell if this is a real picture or not...I am seeing through the barrel?

From their main page article links to http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/03/27/iraq.main/index.html

(this is not politically motivated!)

see attached

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evilelvis
March 27, 2008, 02:49 PM
nevermind upon closer inspection I think it's the carry strap wrapped around the barrel

FEG
March 27, 2008, 02:50 PM
The shooter is holding a gray bag or piece of cloth in his left hand, which blends into the masonry in the background.

merk
March 27, 2008, 02:51 PM
I can see the gap between the upper and lower handguard?

kfranz
March 27, 2008, 02:55 PM
It's the sling

glock530
March 27, 2008, 03:28 PM
At first I was gonna cry "Bad Photoshop" but it's the sling

Jason_G
March 27, 2008, 03:29 PM
It's the sling
yep.

Jason

Patrick Henry
April 28, 2008, 05:05 PM
Better question, which should always be asked regarding pictures like this one:

"Who took that picture and how?"

Unfortunately I was unable to see the picture in the context of whom it's supposed to portray, though I assume from the hood a "bad guy."

How gentlemanly of the wicked Arab terrorist to pose for the western photographer's camera.

Very crisp, clean shirt he's wearing too -- I wonder, do you think he used Tide with color-safe bleach or just kept it on the gentle cycle?

Fake. Like 90% of the news.

"Here Tod, put on this vest too you look more militaristic." :cool:

Last but not least, most real Iraqi insurgents who trust their lives to Kalashnikovs I think would know mounting a scope is about the most ridiculous thing you can do to an AK 47.

Hoppy590
April 28, 2008, 05:09 PM
the scope looks out of place. i cant see the mount. maybe be directly mounted tot he dust cover though

Daemon688
April 28, 2008, 06:32 PM
Guy has a clean shirt and that = fake? Give me a break. The insurgents fighting us over there consist of foreign fighters and the Iraqi people themselves. They gotta melt back into the civilian population some how. Or maybe you were expecting to see a bunch of dirty arabs wearing turbans and robes? There has been plenty of pictures and video of insurgents firing on Americans.

Like others had said, a little opitcal illusion is going on here. The sling is about the same color as the brick background.

Patrick Henry
April 28, 2008, 07:18 PM
Guy has a clean shirt and that = fake? Give me a break.

It's a combination of factors including the nice shirt which makes the photo look staged to me. Most people in that part of the world don't have brand new nice looking clothes.

In fact if you follow the link you see a photo of "Iraqi militia" (supposedly US-allied) where the guys are all wearing really nice dress shirts and slacks like they are ready to go in for a day at the office. :rolleyes: But I don't think there is any insinuation by CNN they didn't pose for that shot.

Maybe these guys work for CNN in Iraq and became "militiamen" for the camera?

There has been plenty of pictures and video of insurgents firing on Americans.

Exactly. How do CNN, FOX News, etc. get that video? I'm talking about video like the example at the top of this thread, which due to the angle or proximity of the shot suggests the cameraman was within enemy lines. You think the insurgents pose shots for our cameras? Or anybodys?

Eightball
April 28, 2008, 07:55 PM
You think the insurgents pose shots for our cameras? Or anybodys?Given how they know the media supports their view on things moreso than America's, that wouldn't surprise me.

Though, I still think it's crap. That scope is idiotic looking, and would have a bad mount to boot.

AndyC
April 28, 2008, 09:07 PM
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/673/captcpsmtk16290308iraqpl0.jpg
A Mahdi Army militiaman aims his weapon during a gunfight in Basra's Hayaniyah neigborhood. Iraq's radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr has ordered his followers to reject Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's call to surrender their arms as clashes with troops raged for a fifth straight day.
(AFP/Essam Al-Sudani)

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/3230/mahdiso3.jpg
(AFP/Essam Al-Sudani)

Google the photographer's name (Essam Al-Sudani) and you'll see that the same questions crop up.

Joe the Redneck
April 28, 2008, 09:50 PM
The scope mount appears to be on the wrong side, whick leads me to believe the picture has been "flipped." This is a less common problem in the digital age (used to happen all the time with slides.) but it does still happen.

As for the face the guy is clean, guys, come on. Iraq is a "place." The have books, TV sets, and barber shops and everything.

The days of the middle East being a waste land of dung fires and so-called "camel jockeys" is a myth. Frankly, during the middle ages their culture was light years ahead of our.

An insurgent doesn't look any different than anyone else. The just shoot in the wrong direction.

JTR

Hoppy590
April 28, 2008, 09:54 PM
The scope mount appears to be on the wrong side, whick leads me to believe the picture has been "flipped." This is a less common problem in the digital age (used to happen all the time with slides.) but it does still happen.

nope, the sling mount is on the correct side.
the scope is either photoshoped, mounted on soem REALLY low scope mount, or directly to the dust cover.

i will agree with you, in the middle ages the middle east was way ahead of the west. however they didnt seem to catch the industrial revolution like we did.

sarduy
April 29, 2008, 12:40 AM
that picture is fake...

PercyShelley
April 29, 2008, 01:00 AM
I love the picture of the guy lining up a shot from behind the cinder blocks.

If he moves an inch either way he's not behind cover anymore.

Not saying that makes it fake, but it certainly looks contrived at first glance to me.

JohnnyBfromAZ
April 29, 2008, 04:48 AM
I'm going to have to say that I don't really understand how you all can keep arguing about something so stupid. This is obviously a real picture, it's a real AK, and you'd be surprised what insurgents can get their hands on over here. We are not fighting a bunch of unorganized grabasstic "ragheads," rather, we are facing well funded, well organized mercenaries. I say mercenaries, because all the "religious zealots", that were doing this for Allah are either dead or figured out that fighting us is generally a bad idea. All the violence today is either driven by politics or money. Oh, and last year when I was in Haditha, Iraq, we killed a bunch of guys who had on their persons: Gen 1 NVDs, 1 HK MP5, and a couple russian AT grenades. Not exactly a couple rusty swords, huh?

TheDisturbed1
April 29, 2008, 05:54 AM
1 HK MP5

HK? You mean its not a knockoff? :eek: :p

rero360
April 29, 2008, 07:49 AM
what always got me with these pics is that these are the bad guys, I really never saw any bad guys while I was over there, one, but we new he was a bad guy and was playing him like a fiddle. Oh I'm sure I saw plenty of bad guys but they were just in blend in mode at the time.

Thing is though, I feel if we can get a pic of the guy, we should be getting him dead. Hopefully the next pic in the progression of the first guy is where you still think you can see through the AK because of the sling but you know for a fact you can see through his head because of the 7.62 round that just ventilated his central cortex.

BattleChimp Potemkin
April 29, 2008, 08:26 AM
+1 Johnny and Joe
The ethnocentrism present here is disgusting. The shirt is too clean? What? Too clean for your racist backwoods views? Used to media pics of people from another country being a certain way? Is this not the "High Road" and not the Aryan Brotherhood Forums? I had to rant a little, but I'm seeing this alot around here. All the Iraq vets I've talked to have respect for the Iraqis, maybe not love, but respect. Maybe some of you all should show some of that too.

Moderators, you can have my membership to this forum of hate and ignorance.

BryanP
April 29, 2008, 08:51 AM
Blathering about clean shirts aside, it does look as if the scope mount is actually on the dust cover itself. Here's a zoom:


http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=77360&stc=1&d=1209473430

Hoppy590
April 29, 2008, 09:54 AM
i dont know what your all blathering on about racism and ethnocentrism.

i made a clear and simple arguement about. it could be a staged picture ( happens all the time)
im just saying

A- it could be some crazy low scope mount which i would want one.
B- the scope is mounted to the dust cover
or
C the scope is photo shopped on making a "gunman" into a "sniper" cause i mean, scopes are scarier right ( recently a journalist was photoshoping pictures to make battle damage to the sky line look worse)

same scope on the FAL. (good trigger discipline too!) as well as the other AK picture. i think the scope is photo shopped on

Still 2 Many Choices!?
April 29, 2008, 10:50 AM
That guy with the FAL is going to loose an eye if he fires that thing that close! I mean seriously, how short of an eye relief could that scope have?

Still 2 Many Choices!?

foghornl
April 29, 2008, 11:47 AM
Hmmmm

Does the scope looked like it is mounted backwards? ? ? ?

Isn't usually the bigger lens on a scope toward the target, not the shooter? ? ?

rero360
April 29, 2008, 11:54 AM
I say photoshoped, now I don't know a whole ot about AKs, I'll be the first to admit that, but I've never seen one with a rail on the top cover. That scope is obviously being held in a pair of normal rings, which happens to look alot it Badger Ordnance rings, which only mount to rails. Its just that non of the AKs that I've handled and seen have had rails on them.

AndyC
April 29, 2008, 12:54 PM
I don't think any of those pics are faked; I saw all that and more over there. Most of the Iraqis I met, I liked - very friendly, hospitable, humble people.

Ash
April 29, 2008, 12:56 PM
Battlechimp, you probably need to relax on this racist talk. I, for one, would be surprised at a very clean shirt if only because I would expect somebody to have climbed through something, or over something, to get to a certain spot, and would expect dust and the like to accumulate. I know every time I have to climb to the top of my own church's bell tower, I come down pretty dirty.

The scope looks photoshopped to me, which has happened often over there. Reuters got slammed for showing a city scape with too much smoke rising that turned out to have been shopped. The scope looks, to me, like it is bolted directly to the dust cover without a rail and, in this configuration, the bolt could not move freely in the action. Also, it looks like an NC-Star illuminated reticle scope, to me at least. While they can certainly be there, it just looks hokey to me. But, then, you may choose to assume that, because I am from Mississippi, my assumptions are based on race. That would be a mistake, of course.

Ash

DrewH
April 29, 2008, 02:54 PM
The scope looks, to me, like it is bolted directly to the dust cover without a rail and, in this configuration, the bolt could not move freely in the action.

It is a crappy place to mount a scope, but it shouldn't affect the movement of the bolt. No idea whether it is photoshopped or not. Could also be a miliitiaman posing for the cameraman

SaMx
April 29, 2008, 04:20 PM
the receiver mounted scope rails are out there, they replace the top cover, and are generally regarded as terrible because they don't hold zero.

rero360
April 29, 2008, 05:23 PM
I see, well I learn something new every day. I must say though that its good to hear that they are terrible, makes me and all my fellow soldiers a little bit safer.

Robert Hairless
April 29, 2008, 06:29 PM
As for the face the guy is clean, guys, come on. Iraq is a "place." The have books, TV sets, and barber shops and everything.

Iraq is a fake. It's Photoshopped. There's no such place. The media made it up. So they can't have books, TV sets, or barbershops. What would they watch on a TV set anyway: "Iranian Idol"? Who can live on sand with camels? Camels are fakes too. They are Photoshopped. Anyway they were replaced by Lucky Strikes, which everyone knows is Photoshopped.

Nobody landed on the moon either. It's Photoshopped. Hold your head just right and you can see the copyright notice.

Photoshop doesn't exist either. It's Photoshopped. It's all a hoax. And don't get me started about hoaxes. A friend owned one and its wheels fell off as he was making a sharp turn.

Ash
April 29, 2008, 08:09 PM
bolted directly to the dust cover, without rails, is certainly possible. But the clearances under the cover won't allow very much room for a bolt/screw/rivet head. Every dust-cover rails I have ever seen were welded on. And I have never seen rings that could be directly attached to a dust cover without the pass-through bolts - and that WOULD be completely in the way of the bolt carrier. I say this is faked.

Ash

kcmarine
April 29, 2008, 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBfromAZ
1 HK MP5
HK? You mean its not a knockoff?


What do you think Todd Bailey meant when he said that his company was going "Law Enforcement and Military Only"?

If he's done his job right, maybe the guns will explode for the terrorists too...:p

Daemon688
April 30, 2008, 12:04 AM
You guys need to take off the tin foil hat. Scope looks weird, agreed. could be some home made gun-smithing for all I know. The details of the picture aren't clear enough for that. As far as cinder block man: stupid but probably not staged. Most of these guys aren't trained soldiers but civilians picking up arms.

Here's a picture of my friend (on the left) with two Iraqi special forces guys. Notice the weapons they're carrying. Look at those uniforms, are they too clean for you? Or wait, maybe it's staged. Those guys don't look like Iraqis...where's the beards?
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=77444&stc=1&d=1209527958

Here's a picture my same friend (above left) took of an Iraqi kid. Maybe his clothes are too dirty for you?
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=77445&stc=1&d=1209527971

W.E.G.
April 30, 2008, 12:37 AM
Looks like a cheap IR scope - probably a Leapers.

Scope mount looks like one from http://www.gunaccessories.com/militaryscopemounts/AK47/index.asp .

The wart on the rear bell is the battery compartment.

Shirt looks like Wal*Mart.

jrfoxx
April 30, 2008, 01:24 AM
Thing is though, I feel if we can get a pic of the guy, we should be getting him dead.
Agreed. I have no issue with media taking pics of the enemy.It's thier job. However, I would be MUCH happier if when they did it, they took 30-40 pics, all using a REALLY bright flash to help us spot their position better. :D

Or at least then founs U.S troops and told us the location of the guy they were just taking a pic of. Who knows though, maybe they DO often tip us off afterwards, no idea.Not a "grunt" or a photographer, so....

As for the pic,
The scope looks, to me, like it is bolted directly to the dust cover without a rail and, in this configuration, the bolt could not move freely in the action
I'm sure as long as it works, no matter if its duct taped on, it can and will be used.Who else has seen the pic of the AK with a shovel handle for a replacement buttstock on an AK in Africa, I think it was. These guys arent gun nuts, collectors, or benchrest shooters. If it works, not matter how hokey, the point is it still works. Heck, they could have just welded the scope rings onto the receiver cover. Would take no skill, and about 10 seconds, and it would work. I'm sure they have acces to welding equipment.
JMHO

Ash
April 30, 2008, 07:26 AM
"You guys need to take off the tin foil hat."

That might be of some value were the evidence not already exist otherwise. Reuters has been stung several times in the last few years accepting photo-shopped photos from the middle east. And that isn't internet rumor but a matter of fact and a source of embarrassment to Reuters.

Ash

Owen
April 30, 2008, 01:45 PM
but accusing that picture of being photoshopped is ridiculous in and of itself. How would photoshopping a scope or cleaning the guys shirt do to change the political impact of the photo?

Its a dude with a scoped AK. BFD.

and why, Mr. Henry, is scoping an AK ridiculous?

Ash
April 30, 2008, 01:48 PM
owen...

Well, never mind. This horse ain't worth riding.

Ash

Hoppy590
April 30, 2008, 08:30 PM
but accusing that picture of being photoshopped is ridiculous in and of itself. How would photoshopping a scope ... to change the political impact of the photo?

scope = sniper. Sniper = scary to the general public

no scope = conscript level grunt. the very racism that so many in here seem to be pissing themselves over with shirts and what not. gives little faith to the fighting power of both the insurgents and iraqi army.

a sniper is seen as a trained skilled worker

imagine Blue collar VS white collar in the world of war

bwavec
April 30, 2008, 08:40 PM
There are plenty of people running around with weapons that aren't in the military. I see people taking pictures of one another all the time at various ranges. Right now the entire country of Iraq is pretty much one big firing range (just the lanes are sometimes pointing right at one another). How hard do u think it is, if you have a digital camera, to get someone to stop and "pose" so you can take their picture ? (As we see in some of what is posted, they will then likely take the time to cover their faces.)

And since photos from that area are a $$$ maker right now...why not turn around and peddle them to the news organizations ? That is all a "freelance photographer" is doing.....and by the way, not all of them are westerners....or at all supportive of what the US is doing there. And that sentiment gets them the trust to allow the insurgents to let them take their picture. Think of them as embedded photographers....just on the insurgent side.

And remember, media outlets are like junkies.....they don't care who sets them up with their "fix" (in this case useable digital imagery), as long as they get it.

The Deer Hunter
April 30, 2008, 09:19 PM
haha the scope is the same in all three pictures...

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