Q for AK experts


PDA






Walkalong
March 27, 2008, 07:54 PM
A local shop I have done business with pretty regularly over the years has a Norinco Mak-90 LNIB at his shop. It is pretty much identical to the first pic. He has $395 on it. It comes with a 30 Rd mag and a 75 Rd drum.

I do not care for the thumbhole stock, although I could live with it I suppose. Will it accept standard AK furniture and what are my options? Where to get it, etc.

Are there any legal issues converting the stock to something else, including the classic AK stock and pistol grip setup? What would that cost and where to get it as well?

I think that is it. I almost bought it on sight this afternoon, but wanted to get ya'lls expertise and opinions on the matter. :)

Thanks, AC

If you enjoyed reading about "Q for AK experts" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Chipperman
March 27, 2008, 08:16 PM
$395 is about average, but if the drum is Chinese I'd buy it. The Chinese drums are the best ones, and are climbing in price.

My understanding is that you can convert it to "regular" AK style, but need to meet the Import guidelines with US parts.

dfariswheel
March 27, 2008, 08:24 PM
It's a good AK rifle, and the price is good, depending on the actual condition.

You can do pretty much anything you want to the rifle, including installing standard type stocks and grips, AS LONG as you meet the Federal law on having a certain number of American made parts.

The actual number of parts depends on the rifle and what you want to add.
For wood, a great source is Ironwood Designs.
He makes new AK wood from solid wood or Russian and Finnish imported laminated woods.
Quality is as good as any original stocks.


http://www.ironwooddesigns.com/

Here's the 922 (r) law:

922 (r)
The Imported Parts Law(1990)
178.39 otherwise known as 922(r) 10 Foreign parts law on semiauto Rifles & Shotguns
http://www.atf.treas.gov/regulations/27cfr178.html
Sec. 178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.
(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.
(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:
(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution
by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
(2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of
testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the
provisions of Sec. 178.151; or
(3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm.
(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates

I'm sure some other posters will do a better job of explaining what this actually means, and what you actually need to install.

Kino74
March 27, 2008, 08:31 PM
I once had a MAK90 that I now kick myself for trading off. Its a good AK. If you want to install other stocks you can but you just need to make sure to have 10 or less imported parts. I recommend getting the G2 trigger group ( 3 US parts), US gas piston and US made pistol grip and you should be good to go for a sidefolder or underfolder and still use the stock chinese upper and lower handguards.

wdlsguy
March 27, 2008, 08:33 PM
Here is an AK-centric version of the list dfariswheel provided:

The 16 countable parts of an AK rifle. No more than 10 of these parts may be imported.

(1) Receiver
(2) Barrel
(3) Trunnion
(4) Muzzle attachments(flash hiders, brakes, barrel extensions, barrel nuts)
(5) Bolt
(6) Bolt carrier
(7) Gas piston
(8) Trigger
(9) Hammer
(10) Disconnecter
(11) Buttstock
(12) Pistol grip
(13) Forearm handguards
(14) Magazine body
(15) Follower
(16) Floorplate

The underlined parts are the most commonly available U.S. manufactured parts.

On a typical stamped receiver rifle you need to replace 5 parts with no muzzle attachment and 6 parts with a muzzle attachment.

On a typical milled recevier rifle you need to replace 4 parts with no muzzle attachment and 5 parts with a muzzle attachment, because there isn't a barrel trunion, it is part of the receiver.

When building an AK pistol, these regulations do not apply. You can not have a stock or forward pistol grip on a pistol.

http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=80

I wouldn't mind owning a MAK-90, but I'd convert it to traditional AK style sooner rather than later, with the election coming up.

gpr
March 27, 2008, 08:35 PM
promag is good for a three count....but it don't help with a drum...gpr

Dave Markowitz
March 27, 2008, 08:37 PM
The MAK-90s are good rifles, definitely a couple steps up from WASRs. 922(r) has already been covered in this thread, so I'll just share an example of what you can do with one:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c340/davemarkowitz/Kalashnikovs/MAK90.jpg

I debanned it using a Tapco G2 fire control group and Tapco furniture. I like the pistol grip and the stock, but I'm not thrilled with the handguard, which is somewhat flimsy. I'll probably replace it at some point.

Kino74
March 27, 2008, 08:38 PM
One thing I forgot, if you do want to change the stocks, check to see how your receiver is cut by the buttstock, some chinese have a angled cut receiver and needs a buttstock to fit.

Walkalong
March 27, 2008, 09:40 PM
Sooo...

If I added this buttstock (http://www.tapco.com/proddesc.aspx?Id=c7977166-dc18-45fa-9b45-39a56f40a30e), this pistol grip (http://www.tapco.com/proddesc.aspx?Id=1ffb4242-ec89-4dd7-88e7-45c3a9137326), and these trigger parts (http://www.tapco.com/proddesc.aspx?Id=7f8c130c-3761-48e3-9560-894e018c8330), 5 parts total, then would I be compliant, or would I need to add this gas rod (http://www.tapco.com/catalog.aspx?id=241) as well, 6 parts total?

The rifle has no muzzle attachments.

And one more important question. Will those parts fit this gun?

bratch
March 27, 2008, 09:54 PM
From what I know without a muzzle attachments thse 5 parts would keep you legal.

Kino74
March 27, 2008, 10:02 PM
A typical STAMPED AK47/74/AKM will have 15 imported parts. If that rifle has a muzzle or flash hider then you now have 16 imported parts and would need 6 US made parts to allow for a preban(1989) configuration.

So in this case the rifle is stamped but does not have a flash hider nor a muzzle brake so one would need 5 US parts to allow a legal configuration.

If you buy a MILLED receiver AK47, the milled receivers do not have a separate front trunion like the stamps so they require 1 less US made part.

I am not sure how the receiver is cut. If that particular MAK90 is straight cut like the Eastern Europeans, then any stamped receiver buttstock will work. Most of them are straight cut so it should not be a problem.

Personally I prefer K-var's US made stocksets. I have black, plum snd AK100 black folding US made stocks from K-var and the quality is top notch. Matter of fact my US made ak100 folding buttstock is nicer than my real Russian one.

pmbiker
March 27, 2008, 10:15 PM
Just to keep it all matching most folks do the entire furniture set and a FCG. For 922r compliance the upper and lower handguards are one piece. I personally like the K-var furniture over the Tapco stuff. It feels more sturdy in my hands but is more $$. For the trigger group you could go simple with the G2 or find a RSA if you value a nice feeling trigger.

ETA:
The triggers on the chinese rifles are known for being very good. Some owners prefer to keep the FCG and replace the gas piston and use US made mags or US followers and floorplates on foreign mags. Either way you're good.

elmerfudd
March 27, 2008, 10:29 PM
That's a very good price. Mak90's are typically going for between $350 and $500, but that drum really makes the deal. Last I checked, Romanian drums were a little under $100, but Chinese drums were going for around $200. If the drum has a big wind up key on it and clips so that you can open up the back of it, it's Chinese.

Odnar
March 27, 2008, 10:31 PM
Walkalong: First off, I have a MAK and can't recommend it enough. I've fired a few other AK types over the years and examined many more. I think you'll be happy with it. Give the thumb hole stock a try before deciding anything. Take it to the range and fire a few hundred out of it before you drop more cash on compliance parts. I still have the original thumb hole stock on mine, and after firing it for a while I wouldn't change it if the parts were given to me. Obviously, you may disagree. I'm just sayin...

I do wish I had a drum mag though. PM me if you feel like selling it. :)

MudPuppy
March 27, 2008, 10:43 PM
Love the MAKs.

For perspective, a 75 round russian or romanian drum is about $100, a chinese 75 rder will fetch about $150. A 100rder will bring north of $200.

Destructo6
March 28, 2008, 01:20 AM
Keep in mind that MAK-90s have slightly different dimensions than European AKs.

Euro buttstock and handguards will probably need modification to fit. Pistol grip, no.

Ironwood designs has some pretty nice wood stock sets (US made) that are made specifically for the MAK-90, angle-cut receiver and all. I found that out the day I sold my MAK-90.

Walkalong
March 29, 2008, 10:08 AM
Went and looked at a couple of Century WASR guns yesterday PM and they were an avg $390 and looked poor, rattled around, and in general were unimpressive.

They were brand new and the LNIB Mak-90 made them look used, very used. Plus it was very solid feeling. It keeps calling my name, but the more I research, the more confused I am. :scrutiny:

deercop
March 29, 2008, 10:13 AM
Doesn't happen to be on the beltline, in Decatur, does it?

Walkalong
March 29, 2008, 10:33 AM
Montgomery

Walkalong
March 29, 2008, 01:38 PM
Bought it. He let it go for $380 plus tax = $418 :)

Very nice. It is basically new in the box. It does not appear fired. Clean as a whistle inside and out. The inside of the drum is completely free of any sign of being used, as are the 5 rounders. The 30 round mag looks used.

I looked at AK's around town today and they had nothing near as nice, and for the same or more money than the Mak-90 I bought. There was one well used Mak-90 for $350. I am happy with my purchase.

Can anyone ID the drum? Thanks,

and thanks for all the input yesterday. I really appreciate it. AC

marshall3
March 29, 2008, 02:40 PM
Probably made by a branch of Norinco, and worth at least $150 all by itself. I sold two of them a year ago for $300. You got a really, really, really great deal on your MAK-90 with Chinese drum. I would have jumped on it in half a second! PS: I have a MAK-90, too, and as someone else said, it is way better quality than the WASRs being sold now for $450. On the stock, I like it just the way it is. Just go shoot the thing, and have fun. You got a great deal!!!

Kino74
March 29, 2008, 03:39 PM
Not surprising that MAK90 made the WASR looked used. The Chinese are known to make cheap junk but they make an excellent AK. If you shop around you can find the bayonet and sight.

Destructo6
March 29, 2008, 11:12 PM
That's exactly how my MAK-90 arrived when I bought it back in 1992. Looks NIB to me.

If you enjoyed reading about "Q for AK experts" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!