Lead Tainted Venison Not Fit For a Food Shelf


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Eagle103
March 29, 2008, 03:00 PM
That's right. The same venison you and I have been eating and feeding to our children for generations is now unsafe for starving people to eat.
http://www.in-forum.com/ap/index.cfm?page=view&id=D8VMPK080
Hunting groups disputing warnings of lead in venison
By JAMES MacPHERSON Associated Press Writer
The Associated Press - Saturday, March 29, 2008

BISMARCK, N.D.

Other states have joined North Dakota's warning that thousands of pounds of venison given to food pantries could be contaminated by lead from bullets. Hunting groups are calling it an overreaction.

"It's alarmist and not supported by any science," said Lawrence Keane, a vice president and lawyer for the Newton, Conn.-based National Shooting Sports Foundation, a trade association for the firearms and ammunition industry. "High quality protein is now taken out of the mouths of needy, hungry people."

North Dakota health officials on Wednesday told food pantries in the state to throw out donated venison, saying it may have lead fragments. Officials in Minnesota and Iowa followed with similar alerts, asking that venison in those states not be distributed.

Gov. John Hoeven said the alerts were issued as a precaution. He said the state has a "tremendous working relationship" with hunters, and the questions raised about ground venison are new.

"They're looking at it and operating out of safety," Hoeven said of health officials. "Along with the state Agriculture Department and the Game and Fish Department, they will be doing studies and evaluations over the course of the next year, so they can put guidelines out for the next hunting season."

Safari Club International's Sportsmen Against Hunger program donated 317,000 pounds of venison last year to the needy, said Doug Burdin, a lawyer for the Tucson, Ariz.-based group. The meat donated by hunters was enough for more than 1.2 million meals, he said.

SCI began the Sportsmen Against Hunger program 18 years ago.

"It's provided a lot of free meals to a lot of people," Burdin said. "Hunters are doing something they love and helping others at the same time. This is disheartening, and we certainly don't think this program should come to an end on the unscientific assessment that has occurred here."

Dr. William Cornatzer, a Bismarck physician and hunter, alerted health officials after he conducted his own tests on venison using a CT scanner and found lead in 60 percent of 100 samples. The North Dakota Health Department confirmed the results on at least five samples of venison destined for food pantries.

"This isn't just a food pantry problem. This is a nationwide problem," Cornatzer said Friday.

Hunters have alternatives to lead, he said.

"I'm a big hunter. I've already purchased four boxes of copper bullets to next year," Cornatzer said.

Cornatzer said he worried about the potential for lead fragments in venison after seeing a report by The Peregrine Fund of Boise, Idaho. He said the nonprofit group, of which he is a board member, studied the effects on birds that ingested bullet fragments left behind in deer carcasses.

"Condors are really acting as a sentinel for what could be happening in humans," said Rick Watson, a vice president of The Peregrine Fund.

"We do know what happens to condors, and there is enough concern to warrant a study that humans could be affected," he said.

Watson said The Peregrine Fund conducted tests over a dozen years on the effects of condors that ingested lead from deer carcasses. He said members of his group shot deer and studied how bullets fragmented beyond the initial wound.

"Lead bullets fragment into tiny, tiny pieces, some of which are visible and some are not," Watson said.

The group plans to release findings in May from a study on lead fragments in deer meat, he said.

Keane, of the National Shooting Sports Foundation, said he did not know of any similar studies by ammunition or firearms makers.

Justin Moore, a spokesman for ammunition maker Nosler, Inc. of Bend, Ore., said his company began offering non-lead bullets last year, but not because of lead issues.

"Many companies have been doing it for quite a while," Moore said. "We saw potential in that market and developed a bullet."

Moore said his 60-year-old company had never researched microscopic bullet fragmentation. "We know the approximate percentage of the retained weight of the bullet, but we haven't actually studied the loss of lead inside the animal," he said.

The North Dakota Community Action Partnership distributed 17,000 pounds of venison from 381 donated deer after last year's hunting season, a number that has tripled since the program began in North Dakota in 2004, executive director Ann Pollert said. At least 4,000 pounds of venison were in food pantries in the state when the health department issued its warning, she said.

The state has about 45 food pantries, and surveys have shown a need for more than 70,000 pounds of venison annually, Poller said. She hopes people will donate other types of meat.

"Meat is so expensive," she said. "This is going to have an impact - it's a quality, lean meat protein source that we're losing."

Jason Foss, president of Minot-based Pheasants for the Future, said hunters from his group donated about 100 deer this year to the program.

Foss said the group pays up to $70 per deer for processing. Money for the program comes from donations and the sale of deer hides.

Foss believes the issue of lead-contaminated meat is "a little extreme at this point."

"Sportsmen have been shooting deer for hundreds of years with lead bullets with no problems," he said. "I hope this program keeps rolling along because so much good comes out of it."



How lead fragments can get into 60% of the samples is an unexplained phenomenon. Dr. Cornatzer is described as a "Dermatologist, Falconer, and Conservationist" according to the Perigrine Fund website. I'm curious as to why a dermatologist has ready access to a CT scanner to run venison through but hey, I'm not a dermatologist.

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rcmodel
March 29, 2008, 03:02 PM
Sounds like they scanned the gut-pile & the hole trimmings!

rcmodel

TAB
March 29, 2008, 03:05 PM
Well I guess I'm skrewed then... I've been eating diffrent game animals since I was a child, almost all of them shot with lead based projectiles.

siglite
March 29, 2008, 03:07 PM
And my question is, who's behind this? Anti-hunting groups, or the Beef industry. Because, very few people actually give a rat's ass about the lead content of their food if they're starving. And the dietary habits of the homeless haven't been much of an issue before. Not that I can remember.

So this reeks of someone's political agenda. Which points me either to the beef industry, or anti-hunting groups.

grimjaw
March 29, 2008, 03:11 PM
Having bitten down into fried squirrel meat more than once to find a lead pellet in it, I don't seem to have developed brain defects.

Yet.

jm

Sergeant Sabre
March 29, 2008, 08:26 PM
Simply stupid.

bakert
March 29, 2008, 08:35 PM
How lead fragments can get into 60% of the samples is an unexplained phenomenon. Dr. Cornatzer is described as a "Dermatologist, Falconer, and Conservationist" according to the Perigrine Fund website. I'm curious as to why a dermatologist has ready access to a CT scanner to run venison through but hey, I'm not a dermatologist.

Something is wrong with this story. Maybe a little bovine excrement!!:confused:

PotatoJudge
March 29, 2008, 08:39 PM
Why not start by studying the blood lead levels of people that eat venison, excluding reloaders and bullet casters? It's not really important if there's lead in the meat if it has no measurable effect on the health of the consumers. When they say 60% of the samples were contaminated, I wonder how big a "sample" was, cause you can fit at least a few deer in a CT scanner.

Also, that's a lot of $ for CT scans. Wonder why an X-ray series wouldn't catch the same bits at a small fraction of the cost.

I'm not particularly happy about Nosler jumping in on this either, and a lot of guys here were warning about this sort of thing when Nosler announced the E-Tip.

Fburgtx
March 29, 2008, 08:39 PM
It was my understanding that it caused more harm to birds due to the fact that they have a gullet, which either retains the lead for quite some time or crushes it up quite a bit.

I can't say that I have seen many lead fragments in my deer meat. There's so much meat there, that it's pretty easy cut around the bullet track or just throw away the affected meat. As far as big game bullets are concerned, I think you'd be more likely to encounter a piece of the copper jacket than a lead fragment.

Eagle103
March 29, 2008, 11:26 PM
This seems to be the trend nowadays. I saw a report on the local news that they were throwing 120 tons of the recalled beef from California in the local landfill this weekend. Not because there was something wrong with it but because there could be something wrong with it. I think we're seeing a new M.O. by the anti's here.

sm
March 29, 2008, 11:40 PM
Is this Eco Terrorist working with Gun Control?

Sounds like some groups are setting aside any differences they have to reach common goals to me.

alsaqr
March 29, 2008, 11:44 PM
"Having bitten down into fried squirrel meat more than once to find a lead pellet in it, I don't seem to have developed brain defects.""

Bingo!!!. Hard to tell how many shotgun pellets I have swallowed over six decades of eating squirrel, birds and rabbits. Just passed my annual OSHA physical. My
blood pressure is 115/70. Not bad for age 69. Maybe that lead helped me.

JohnBT
March 30, 2008, 12:49 AM
I wonder if any of the thousands of fish I've frozen had lead splitshot in them?

Oh well, I'll go back to worrying about all the lead paint chips I ate as a kid. Urp.

John

springmom
March 30, 2008, 04:52 PM
Oh, Lord. Once again, it is proven: you can dress up ugly but you cannot fix stupid.
:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Springmom

mossberg
March 31, 2008, 01:15 AM
I bet they still wouldn't eat it if the hunters used lead alternatives. Hey, thanks for the meat but no thanks. In the garbage it goes. Disgusting.

Crosshair
March 31, 2008, 03:03 AM
It was my understanding that elemental lead is not that large of a hazard to mammals.:confused:

XDKingslayer
March 31, 2008, 10:38 AM
Sounds like they scanned the gut-pile & the hole trimmings!

rcmodel

I know you were probably being sarcastic, but this is probably exactly what they did.

I know it sounds funny, but we had this exact same problem with Great Lakes salmon. They were saying the mercury levels were too high to be fit to eat. Someone actually looked at how they were doing the measurements and they were taking a whole salmon, grinding it into a liquid, putting it into a centrifuge, spinning out the mercury and then measuring that amount. It was extremely high.

But we don't eat the whole salmon. It was noted that 99% of the mercury collected in the fish's brain and liver, parts we don't eat.

Once they put a salmon filet through the test they found the levels to be well below harmful.

Kingcreek
March 31, 2008, 11:46 AM
I always wonder how thses things can even become issues.
I would be more likely to be concerned with antibiotics, hormones, etc in commercially raised meat than lead in my wild game.
However, I have 100% weight retention in my broadheads...

Ridgerunner665
March 31, 2008, 11:53 AM
I have eaten plenty of lead killed deer (and other critters)...I'm still here.
But there are better bullets out there than any bullet containing lead...Barnes TSX bullets are worth every penny.

And a little copper is considered good for you.

Art Eatman
March 31, 2008, 12:50 PM
I wanna know how the lead gets from the neck to the backstrap. Or from the heart/lungs to the rump.

IOW, BS.

Art

stevelyn
March 31, 2008, 02:38 PM
It's contrived as a pretext for something else.

cmidkiff
March 31, 2008, 05:08 PM
Reasons given to justify implementing a political agenda don't have to make sense, it just has to sound good. The people responsible for this idiocy don't want you shooting Bambi... it has nothing to do with lead. Were we to discover a new material that was less expensive and functioned as well as lead, they'd find an excuse to ban it, as well.

Don't some beef processing facilities still use .22's?

The keyword in "Gun Control" is "Control", not "Gun"

alsaqr
March 31, 2008, 08:09 PM
Reasons given to justify implementing a political agenda don't have to make sense, it just has to sound good. The people responsible for this idiocy don't want you shooting Bambi... it has nothing to do with lead. Were we to discover a new material that was less expensive and functioned as well as lead, they'd find an excuse to ban it, as well.

Very good post. It is not about lead in donated deer meat. It is about the antis and their putrid agenda.

ArmedBear
April 1, 2008, 03:39 PM
As soon as people start making a living off something, they'll do anything to expand their money and power.

The money spent to "save the Condor", it's being paid to people. These people, like anyone else who is doing something the market does not demand, are dangerous.

joebogey
April 1, 2008, 04:14 PM
I have the same feelings on this as I do on a lot of the big cancer scares you read about.
They do a study on a substance. They feed that substance to a lab rat. They give said rat 100 times the amount of that substance that any human would ingest in a lifetime, and then proclaim it causes cancer when the rat gets sick.

It's all a matter of agenda.

Now if you'll excuse me, I've got this little piece of lead shot in my teeth and it's drivin me nuts.....;)

BigG
April 1, 2008, 04:24 PM
D'oh! (slaps head) :banghead:

Koos Custodiet
April 1, 2008, 04:37 PM
Having bitten down into fried squirrel meat more than once to find a lead pellet in it, I don't seem to have developed brain defects.

You like guns, don't you? There, clear proof, your brain has turned to mush.

(I guess what I'm trying to say is, they've tried us all already, and we're guilty of whatever they want us to be... sheesh, they're nuts :-)

eastwood44mag
April 1, 2008, 05:00 PM
I've eaten more lead than probably 90% of the country, and it hasn't hurt me any, aside from some tooth aches at the time.

paintballdude902
April 1, 2008, 08:55 PM
wow so even the parts of the animal that made no contact with the bullet are still tainted?

thats some great logic

icebones
April 1, 2008, 09:14 PM
this my friends, is the finest example of BULLSH**

i would bet my bottom dollar that his article was make up by some antigun, antihunting, PETA or someone else. :mad:

so these people would rather let humans starve and go hungry that sit down and have a nice grilled backstrap?

lead is too soft to fragment into tiny pieces that are too small to see, like those people talked about.

now if bullets were made of something harder (like glass:rolleyes:), i would be worried about finding microscopic fragments in food.

okay, if Mr scientist, you want me to stop using lead based bullets, you can buy me solid copper rounds, and i will gradly use them;)

even then, you probably get more lead from tap water than you will ever get from eating "so called" tainted meat.

no paintballdude902, dont worry about it...

has anyone ever though of personally getting a sample of venison from their freezer and having it tested for lead?

Bartkowski
April 1, 2008, 09:18 PM
If thats the case, how the hell have we all survived without problems? And the generations before us that relied on hunting for food?

HankB
April 1, 2008, 10:02 PM
No need to over-analyze this - it's pretty simple, really.

Sportsmen Against Hunger and similar programs generate good publicity for hunters.

Animal rights fanatics don't like that.

So . . . make something up to demonize those evil, bad, hunters.

coloradokevin
April 3, 2008, 05:59 PM
It's just sad to see so much perfectly good game meat go to waste... I wish they'd give me the option of taking some!




Having bitten down into fried squirrel meat more than once to find a lead pellet in it, I don't seem to have developed brain defects.


Ha! I seem to recall doing to same thing in some pheasant one time!

Navy joe
April 5, 2008, 10:10 PM
Please guys, don't make fun. I'm here dying of lead poisoning and all I want is one more of my favorite meal, fried bloodshot rib meat. :neener:

How lead fragments can get into 60% of the samples is an unexplained phenomenon. Dr. Cornatzer is described as a "Dermatologist, Falconer, and Conservationist" according to the Perigrine Fund website. I'm curious as to why a dermatologist has ready access to a CT scanner to run venison through but hey, I'm not a dermatologist.

That's a little different than the article's clever "physician and hunter" description of Cornatzer. It worked for Cali, it worked with DDT, so now we are going to ban guns and hunting with "It's for the falcons" lead control BS. If that craptastic science was real you figure the vultures would have been extripated from the east following the Civil War and its giant lead tainted feast.

Carl N. Brown
April 6, 2008, 08:27 AM
In cleaning wild game, Dad and I cut away the parts mushed by the bullet wound channel; most deer are shot with rifles and any contaminated flesh ought to be already trimmed away. Sounds chicken-little-the-sky-is-falling to me.

Art Eatman
April 6, 2008, 11:49 AM
Send a POLITE email, okay? POLITE!

http://www.health.state.nd.us/DoH/contact.htm

Art

Philosopher Stone
April 7, 2008, 12:03 PM
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." --Sam Adams

Here's another one:

"In politics, an organized minority is a political majority."--Jesse Jackson

Phil (http://philstone.blogetery.com/)

Savage3006
April 8, 2008, 07:33 AM
The questions to ask are where is the lead coming from and where is the lead found in the meat. For example in ME, we cannot consume the Moose liver because they accumulate heavy metal like cadmium but that comes from the environment.

It is hard to believe that a bullet in a deer chest will leak enough lead in the 20 seconds the deer is alive to contaminate the meat.

The alternative is to buy steaks at the local supermarket ... and we know what can be found in that stuff!

To me it looks like it is a scare tactic from people having an agenda (copper bullet manufacturers, antis, ?)

Carl N. Brown
April 11, 2008, 09:14 PM
Lead Tainted Venison Not Fit For a Food Shelf

but funny it was fit to nourish generations of American Indians and white frontiersmen.

Art Eatman
April 11, 2008, 10:33 PM
I emailed, and got a good response.

There have been postive tests for lead. In ground venison. No real details, but from the phrasing, it seems as though those who actually do the final butchering don't do a clean job of removal of the shot-path meat, and grind up all of it. Sausage? Dunno. I asked for more info.

eliphalet
April 11, 2008, 10:45 PM
Good chance it was boned as fast and easy as possible, thrown into a grinder and not checked for any bullets or shotgun pellets left behind.
I donno about copper but there is a good chance a professional grinder would eat lead pellets, tainting a lot of meat if tested

Easy to understand if you figure the butcher might just be being paid so much for each deer or pound coming out of the grinder. A critter could be boned and things missed real easy.

boggyboy72
April 13, 2008, 01:05 AM
Just Antis tryin to kill any good PR for hunters.Nevermind the food taken from hungery peoples mouths.

Carl N. Brown
April 13, 2008, 10:33 AM
If a processor is sloppy and unsafe in handling game meat, well ... ee-yew.
The real problem there is not the source of the meat. Of course, the government answer does not address the real problem.

22-rimfire
April 13, 2008, 10:36 AM
And they talk about the world food supplies.... this is pretty ridiculous. The anti-hunting groups, Greenspeace and others are some of our worst enemies. I doubt there would be many people who would turn down some venision that are starving.

My favorite "lead story" is eating a beef steak at a restaurant (Sizziller or somthing). Found like 10 lead shot (BB's) in my steak and have always wondered how on earth these got there since steaks are not cut parallel to the exterior of the animal. I was definitely "spitting lead" that day.

243_shooter
April 13, 2008, 08:06 PM
Dr. Cornatzer is described as a "Dermatologist, Falconer, and Conservationist" according to the Perigrine Fund website

I'm sure his personal agenda had nothing at all to do with the results..

It's really a shame to toss all that meat when people are going hungry..

Leo

jedwi
April 13, 2008, 08:37 PM
A CT scan will not determine lead content......What hogwash....

GRB
April 13, 2008, 08:40 PM
he conducted his own tests Herein lies the problem.

JohnKSa
May 17, 2008, 03:05 PM
According to a brief article in the June 2008 American Hunter, Iowa, after putting it's venison donation on hold as a result of Cornatzer's "study" recently completed a scientific study and found that "donated venison poses no health risks".

Dr. William Cornatzer is "an outspoken critic of lead ammo and a member of the Peregrine Fund, an organization supportive of California's ban on lead ammo."

According to the article, Cornatzer's "study" resulted in 4,000 to 5,000 pounds of donated venison being discarded in North Dakota. Venison that was slated to go to needy families. If I shoot a deer and discard the meat to rot, I would be charged with a crime. Dr. Cornatzer's politically motivated shenanigans resulted in the meat from many deer being discarded, to say nothing of the fact that the needy families who would have gotten the meat were essentially robbed of a high-protein food source.

Beagle-zebub
May 17, 2008, 08:39 PM
If that craptastic science was real you figure the vultures would have been extripated from the east following the Civil War and its giant lead tainted feast.


That's an interesting point, but I think an even better example would be the buffalo extermination of the post-war period. They put countless tons of lead into those animals, and then left the skinned carcasses in the field for whatever came along. That was softer, unjacketed lead use, too, and in big 405gr. projectiles.

But yeah, I'd rather starve than eat meat that has a negligible chance of giving me non-lethal poisoning.

The real kicker to all this is that food companies recently had a dramatic decline in the number of damaged cans they produce, translating into historic shortages at these same food shelves.

Frog48
May 18, 2008, 11:32 AM
I'd rather be fat and happy with minimal odds of lead poisoning than dying of hunger.

FullOfBier
June 7, 2008, 04:27 PM
Channel 9 in Minnesota actually said the lead contamination was the result of "buckshot". Idiots obviously do not know the law.

If anyone has a concern take up bow hunting.

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