How about a 45 ACP lever action?


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HoosierQ
March 29, 2008, 03:50 PM
I would think that would be a very handy gun. I cannot imagine that the recoil would cause those very stubby round FMJs to do the whole primer accident thing? I mean, would that not be great? A tube fed lever action 45 ACP would surely hold 10-12 rounds.

Just a wish. Don't know if the rimless nature of 45 ACP would be problem or not.

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Seafarer12
March 29, 2008, 03:57 PM
They can design anything but I think it would be kind of limiting.I would rather have a semi auto for a weaker round like the 45. I would rather have a 44 mag. I have a 357 lever and love it.

rcmodel
March 29, 2008, 03:59 PM
Interesting idea.

But I doubt it could be done with existing lever-gun designs.

The rim plays several very vital function in the Winchester & Marlin designs at least.

It works with the cartridge cut-off to the tube and acts as an integral part of the cartridge guides to get it to feed from the tube to the chamber.

All you would really gain over the .357 & .44 Mag guns is maybe a couple more rounds in the tube, and far less effective range.

rcmodel

Jim Watson
March 29, 2008, 05:25 PM
Marlin has been making lever actions for the rimless .35 Remington for years.

C.E. Harris had a .44 Marlin converted to .45 ACP a number of years ago.
Rebore the barrel - he said that was so much work that he would have been better off to have had one turned out of a blank.
Rebuild the lifter for the short cartridge.
Set up the bolt face and extractor for the .45 head diameter.

He would not even show chronograph figures for hardball, he did not want to tempt anybody into building one and loading FMJ roundnose in the tube magazine. I think that a small risk, but if it blew out, a lot of damage.

No gunmaker's or gunsmith's lawyer would pass on such a gun for that reason.

Marlin 45 carbine
March 29, 2008, 05:42 PM
some outfit is chambering Lee-Enfields for the .45acp with a large suppresor fitted. mucho $$$, think I'll stick w/my Marlin Camp .45.

richardsoll
March 29, 2008, 05:46 PM
The .450 marlin is rimless, well its belted.

FFMedic
March 29, 2008, 05:47 PM
Century International Arms sells Lee Enfields with short new BBLs, they take 1911 mags and shoot .45 ACP. I saw them at the last gun show I was at, $350, no supressor. I also like my Camp 45!

FFMedic

R.W.Dale
March 29, 2008, 05:50 PM
The rim plays several very vital function in the Winchester & Marlin designs at least.

It works with the cartridge cut-off to the tube and acts as an integral part of the cartridge guides to get it to feed from the tube to the chamber.

On a marlin336 the rim does none of these things. A rim is NOT required for a Marlin levergun, Nor is there a benefit in having one. The RIMLESS 35rem is the slickest feeding loading and ejecting cartridge marlin has ever stuck in a levergun

Ergosphere
March 29, 2008, 06:03 PM
I'd think a lever gun in 10mm would be more interesting, due to the larger case capacity.

rcmodel
March 29, 2008, 06:16 PM
The RIMLESS 35rem is the slickest feeding loading and ejecting cartridge marlin has ever stuck in a levergunNot sure how all that slickness on a 336 would carry over in a pistol length Marlin 94 action though.

I'm sure it could be done, I'm just not too sure why?

Marlin makes, or has made the 94 in .218 Bee, 25-20, 32-20, .357 Mag, 38-40, 41 Mag, 44-40, and 44 Mag, as well as others.

Winchester has done the same with the 92 & 94.

What could the .45 ACP or 10mm do that at least several of those calibers couldn't do much better?

rcmodel

R.W.Dale
March 29, 2008, 06:19 PM
What could the .45 ACP or 10mm do that at least one or two of those calibers couldn't do much better?


By your reasoning EVERY bolt action should be a 30-06

all shotguns would be 12ga

all semiauto carbines would be 7.62x39's

all rimfires would be 22lr

all trucks would have 6cyl emgines

and all women would be B cups

what a boring world that would be

Mike 56
March 29, 2008, 06:28 PM
I think the interest in a 45 ACP leaver rifle would make nice companion rifle for a 1911 or a 1917 revolver and i think developing cast loads for 45 ACP rifle would be a lot of fun. Here is a link on building a 45 ACP Enfield neat little rifle http://www.surplusrifle.com/articles2008/sia_45_enfield/index.asp To tell you the truth i have a safe full rifles not one in a pistol caliber. I think it would be fun to own one.

Mike

easyrider6042004@yahoo.ca
March 29, 2008, 06:30 PM
You may squeeze in two extra rounds but you may not see an appreciable increase in velocity or range, if you use the same load as the pistol load.
To get higher velocity from a rifle barrel, you need to use higher pressure .45 acp rounds, using slower powder, like those designed and made for the Thompson sub-machine gun. But then you'd lose the benefit of ammo commonality with your pistol.

Your accuracy may benefit from the increased sight radius, but if you are a decent shot and accurize your .45 pistol (1911 type), then you'll probably hit the same groups (6"-8") with both guns, up to 50 yds.

Need more firepower from your pistol? No problemo, get a hi-cap double stack 1911-type, or 10-rd magazines for a single stack 1911.

IMO, the .357 magnum is the best candidate for building a revolver/lever combo, followed by .44 magnum. Real benefits can be had with such combos.

Jim Watson
March 29, 2008, 06:31 PM
Friend of mine has a bolt action .45 ACP. I think it a waste of money. I'd rather have a good .22 (The which he shoots mostly now the new has worn off the silly .45)

But his silly .45 is WAY more accurate than 6" at 50 yards. Even offhand.

MCgunner
March 29, 2008, 07:59 PM
If you can't kill something with 10 .357s, what's 12 .45s gonna do for ya???? :rolleyes: How about a .454 Casull Rossi M92? :evil: If you just have to have .45 ACP firepower, there's always the Thompson.

George Hill
March 30, 2008, 12:08 AM
If you can't kill something with 10 .357s, what's 12 .45s gonna do for ya????
Get the remaining two still standing. Duh.
Hey, i don't mind those Clinton Low Cap Magazines... only ten rounds when we could have 17... if you can't kill something with 10 rounds, right?
Sheesh.

cane
March 30, 2008, 12:27 AM
There's a cartrige called the .45 Cowboy Special, it is basically a .45 Colt cut to ACP length. There are kits available to convert Marlin and toggle link Winchester clones.

Beagle-zebub
March 30, 2008, 12:42 AM
If you could put a can on it, which would limit the capacity to "only" six rounds, then people would start to really get interested. It would have the strengths of those .45 Enfields without the weakness of a turn-bolt action.

JustsayMo
March 30, 2008, 09:49 AM
The only thing I like better about 45 ACP than 45 Colt is that 45 ACP works in a 1911. ;)

The 45 ACP is a great compromise cartridge. It doesn't excel at anything but it does work well (enough) in just about everything. I'm a big fan of 45 caliber (.452-458") firearms. In lever actions two of my favorites are Marlin 1894 in 45 Colt and Marlin 1895 in 45-70. For me there isn't enough upside for a 45 acp in a rifle vs. the versatility of a 45 Colt in the leveraction. Mild to 325gr loads scooting down range at just under 1500 fps. :D

Mk VII
March 30, 2008, 10:45 AM
a friend has had a Marlin done in .45 ACP. It took a lot of work to get it to function and the LOA is crucial - slightly out and it won't feed.

cane
March 30, 2008, 11:09 AM
MKVII, what is/who makes a "Marlin Clone"?

jerkface11
March 30, 2008, 11:15 AM
I'd rather have one in .40 cal. though.

Seafarer12
March 30, 2008, 12:07 PM
what is/who makes a "Marlin Clone"?
Who was talking about a Marlin clone? I think Wild West Guns makes a clone that is beefed up to take the 500 S&W.

Owlnmole
March 30, 2008, 12:10 PM
It seems to me that the pistol/carbine companion idea works best when the cartridges match the actions. Traditional manual actions like levers and pumps were designed to use rimmed cartridges, just like revolvers. Rimless cartridges were designed for semi-auto pistols and rifles. I know there are exceptions, but the above are usually true. Bolt and single shots can go either way, and honestly I am surprised that no one markets a bolt action carbine in common pistol calibers, rimmed and rimless.

cane
March 30, 2008, 12:54 PM
Seafarer12, MKVII in post 20.

Ratshooter
March 30, 2008, 01:00 PM
Marlin also made a model 62 that was chambered for the 30 carbine round which is rimless.

mainmech48
March 30, 2008, 04:42 PM
The CF Marlin 62 fed from a box mag. Ball ammo not an issue.

What was said about FMJ ammo in tubes is right. Even the makers of the revolver caliber carbines warn against using FMJs. You can use LRN with no problems.

The Marlin 336's and Savage 170's chambered for .35 Remington specifically warned against using the spitzer-type 150 gr. loads in the tube mag. in the manuals. even though they were SPs. All of the available factory 200 gr. RN loads were SPs. Ditto for any pointed projectiles in a .30-30, although one would've had to handload to get them. All of the factory loaded ammo in .30-30 had a flat or RN soft point.

The Remington 141 pump fed from a tube, but had a spiral groove in its body to keep the noses of the cartridges offset from the primer of the next round.

Kinda wonder about that ".45 Cowboy" round. Sounds like reinventing the wheel, as the .45 S&W (Schofield) has been around for more than 100 years and is basically the same thing. Starline makes brass for it and several oufits sell loaded ammo.

As for myself, if I were real flush with cash and wanted a nifty and unusual carbine with .45 ACP ballistics I'd spring for one of the Taylor's Spencer replicas in .45 S&W! As a toy it'd be too cool for words.

grendelbane
March 30, 2008, 09:07 PM
At one time, Winchester made a .45 ACP model 92 for the South American trade. So rimless cartridges are not a problem in a lever action.

The .45 ACP does not pick up a whole lot of velocity in a carbine length barrel, but it does pick up some. Many people believe the myth that it actually loses velocity in a carbine barrel, but I have a chronograph, several .45 pistols and revolvers, and a Cav-Oly with a 16" barrel, and they all agree that the longer barrel produces the most velocity.

If Rossi made a .45 ACP model 92, I would have to have one. It would sort of be like sending coals to Newcastle, but I understand that they are doing that now, too.

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