[MJRW]

Wanted to see what kind of protection my fiance was relying on in addition to pepper spray. If you haven't been stun gunned, its not that bad. Its not very effective. I was not knocked out.

[Skunkabilly]

I still think you could use new friends :D

Just kidding...so would you prefer hot-hot-hot OC as an intermediate option before firearms?

[MJRW]

Without a doubt. They are less ignorable in my experience and have some range. I've always been disturbed by how close someone has to be before you can use a stun gun. Interested in tasers, though.

[Ol' Badger]

Where did he hit you with it? Was it bare skin? I find that the base of the spine works on my Bro. He got me in tne groin with a Cattle prod once, so dont feel sorry for him!

[brownie0486]

I've seen too many tests that show the perp [ played by a good guy ] not being "taken out" of the equation and still able to assault and continue the attack to ever count on it.

OC? Useless most of the time, as it is not reliable to putthem down or take the fight out of them why chance it?

The force contiuum needs asp, knife, gun in that order for civilians.

Ladies relying on OC are in for a rude awakening as it is not that effective on a large poercentage of people.'

If a pistol round was as effective as the OC or stun guns, people wouldn;t carry them much, same should go for OC and stuns.

Can they be effective? yes
Are they effective enough and reliable enough to get your butt out of trouble? Probably not.

I don't let my wife carry either and walk around with some false sense of security.

Brownie

[Bruz]

so i had a friend stun gun me this weekend

Funny, I had a friend kick me in the nuts! I think it would of been easier if we just read the back posts on this subject! :D

[Skunkabilly]

Funny, I had a friend kick me in the nuts!

OK between you getting kicked in the..umm..yeah, and MJRW getting zapped and Kevlar man shooting himself, what's next? :eek:

[TheeBadOne]

The force contiuum needs asp, knife, gun in that order for civilians.
Knive and Gun are at the same level on the force continuum (both are considered deadly force if used on someone).
OC needs to be used with realistic expectations. Do not count on them hitting the ground flat out could. What you hope it will do at least, is cause the person sprayed to close their eyes or at least severely limit their vison. Hopefully this is all you'll need to make good your escape. Make sure you know what it's like to get hit by OC as there's a good chance you'll get back spray when you use it (watch the wind). If you know what to expect from OC exposure you'll be less likely to panic in use of it w/cross contamination.

All the best

[brownie0486]

TheBadOne:

Did I say that?
What a brain fade, ya the knife and gun are on the same continuum.

Corrected accordingly

Good catch

Brownie

[TheeBadOne]

brownie, once in a great while the puck runs into me and I get a save ;)

[Andrew Wyatt]

The force contiuum needs asp, knife, gun in that order for civilians.



Asps aren't somethng that can be safely carried in california, because the police view tham as weapons that are exclusive to cops, and get mightily offended.

[Soap]

I've been stun gunned. While not the time of my life, it did almost nothing to incapacitate me.

[brownie0486]

Question for those in Ca.

Can you carry an asp with a ccw?

Here in Ma. you can get certified in asp and then carry one [ no ccw necessary ]. Not the easiest thing to get but they can be obtained.

I have a ccw and asp/oc certs which get me through the night.
The OC is useless to me, I won't carry it.

Brownie

[scbair]

Here in SC, "CWP" is for handgun only. No "bludgeon" (ASP would undoubtedly be considered such), dirk, dagger, slungshot (sap), etc. need apply. In fact, while I wasn' lookin', some yahoo legislated no concealed knife with a blade more than 2" in length! This in ol' Dixie!! Boy, is my face red!

I'm reduced to a Spyderco Dodo (OK, it's a small fraction over 2" in blade length; it 'pops" lightning-quick, has a hand-filling handle, and I'll argue 1/8" if it becomes an issue) and, of course, my .45 Kimber Ultra CDP.:neener:

As I've noted before, it would be a real embarrassment to get busted for carrying an AFCK while packing a legal .45 Auto and 2 spare mags:banghead:

Dumb laws; no really good options between empty hand and lethal force. :scrutiny:

[Andrew Wyatt]

It's a "pistol, revolver, or other firearm" permit. no asps, shotguns, okay, but no asps.

Quite a few Cops here think people who carry batons of any shape, or form are somehow mentally deranged or cop wannabes. Jim March has at least one tale of baton brought on police brutality.

[cslinger]

Any of you guys who are stun gunning, kicking in the nards, shooting or pepper spraying each other are not invited to any of TN shoots. I've done an informal poll and determined that 99% don't want any of the above to happen to us.........we usually have bayonets and it's just a matter of time until one of you chuckleheads wants to bayonet somebody.:D

Chris

[Iain]

Let me know if you decide to taser each other. Would be interested in the results/aftermath.

[MJRW]

Chris, no worries about that. One must volunteer. It wasn't like we snuck up on each other and did this. We came up with rules of Stun Club:

First rule of stun club, do not talk about stun club.
Second rule of stun club, do not talk about stun club.
Third rule of stun club, if its your first night at stun club, you've got to get stunned.

We tend to ignore the first two.

St Johns, I'm trying to find someone I know with a taser. I'm interested, too.

[Brian D.]

I did this too, many years ago, when the gadgets were fairly new. The friend in question had a girlfriend who worked downtown, 2nd shift. He wanted to see if the stun gun he'd bought her was really effective. I volunteered to help, 'cause I wanted to know the same thing myself. Long story short, when zapped anywhere but dead center of thorax, I was able to easily grab the thing away and turn it on him! Zaps to the extremities weren't bad at all, didn't slow me down in my "counterattack". Hope the gizmos have improved since then. Think I'll just read other people's posts on the subject nowadays, though....

[cslinger]

Now I am not a rapest or mugger so maybe this is just common sense talking.

I don't like electricity. Just the sound of one those things arcing does me it. I hate that noise, gives me the heebee jeebies something fierce. You could just threaten me with one and I am heading for the hills.

But that's just me.

[Iain]

Anybody ever see the Jackass episode where they tested out pepper sprays and tasers and stun guns?

If I recall correctly, the guy hated the little prod stun guns the most for actual pain when it was got to him.

[Sir Galahad]

Maybe that one time your friend wasn't doing it right. Perhaps all of us ought to get a turn to stun gun you and let's see how that works out. :D Or maybe we could do like the BladeForums Pass-Around tests and all pool our money to buy the most monster mondo stun gun and mail it to each other and zap ourselves with it and post our results here.

Electricity isn't always effective. Repairing electrical equipment, I'vbe been zapped by 110 more times than I can count and 220 a couple times and had enough temper to get angry and throw tools (in a safe direction of course. No tools were injured during the course of the tantrum.)

[Brian D.]

Kevan, is that you? When you gonna get your act straight and sign up at the forum down there in my signature line--you'd be a hoot and a half over there? Anyways, in my case, when we did the testing, it was with paramedics standing by on scene. Also, beforehand, I made sure I had no pressing personal elimination issues to deal with, in case things got fugly during the experiment, if you get my drift.

[Glamdring]

Does anyone know of any cases were Non LEO use of an ASP or other impact weapon was considered lesser force than a gun? If an ASP is used properly I don't think it will do much more than pepperspray or stun gun, you would have to use it as a lethal weapon for it to have much immediate effect.

[brownie0486]

Glamdring :

Just finished requal on the asp and OC for Mass.

I do instruct in stick ocassionally to LE [ privately, most of the time ] so the course is very basic for the most part on the learning curve through Ma Criminal Justice.

The asp will do quite a bit more than OC or a stun gun when used properly. The strike points are always non-lethal in an LE setting/training environ of course, but you reach your hand out to harm me and take a quick snap to the offending wrist/limb below the elbow and you'll think twice before extending it out to harm me again and will likely be needing emergency room visits for a broken wrist [ and thats if I am feeling generous that day ].

The asp is considered less lethal in this state than a firearm in the force continuum. You need the certification to carry one and then the LE's still frown on your having it on you, but hey, with certs in the wallet they can't do much unless you weild it in a way that caused undue damage of the perp.

One should be careful that it is not taken away during an altercation however. There are techniques that help in this area as well if one hass been shown the proper use thereof.

Brownie

[Hand_Rifle_Guy]

Stunguns (NOT Tasers, mind you.) are old hat. Damn worthless.

We've had this conversation (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23781), also.

Stunguns are right useless. I know from personal experience, 500,000 volts at a time. Read that link. You have my permission to laugh heartily at my expense.


NOTE: Tasers are a horse of another color. They knock you over, as they run on real current. They are not halfway measures, unlike a feeble stungun.

Stunguns don't stun. They're just "Pain Compliance Devices."

Non-debilitating pain just makes people mad. Don't get a stungun, get ammo. Or a Makarov.

[TheeBadOne]

Does anyone know of any cases were Non LEO use of an ASP or other impact weapon was considered lesser force than a gun?
What Brownie said. Training makes all the difference in the world. If you don't have training on it, it's just a "club", ie: deadly force instrument.