[Ridgeway]

Pleasantly surprised today when my mother expressed an interest in buying a handgun for home defense (and very maybe getting a ccw for late night dog walking).

I've taken her shooting a number of times. She has had the best success w/my P228.

So with that in mind what should she get? She will buy what I suggest, and will only be shooting with me when I come to visit- so simplicity and ease of use are paramount.

I was thinking a revolver. But I think the recoil may be an issue. A J frame would be great for carry, but the first time she fired it I know would be the last.
Anyone have any other options in the revolver category? I think for simplicity's sake as well as ease of use a revolver would be preferable.

She hasn't really manipulated semi-auto's so I don't know if she will have difficutly with things such as racking the slide or not.
But in this category I was first considering a glock, maybe a 26 (or a 19 if she decides never to carry). Very minimal recoil and doa is probably preferably to learning da/sa.


Also what other options should I be looking @ in smaller calibers? Please no caliber wars, any gun is better than none imo. For semi-auto's I think the 9mm will do, but in a revo, especially a j frame .38 may be pushing it (unless someone can suggest a good low recoil option that will fit a woman's hands).

Is there anything decent below .38 that isn't trash? Any good reliable low recoil .32's?

[CountGlockula]

Any smith or Ruger revolver in .38spl should be a good one.

[Ridgeway]

i'm unaware of a place that rents revolvers nearby unfortunitly, so...

you think a k frame would be tolerable? i suppose w/o +p loads...i believe federal has a non +p 110 gr loading that would work

[W.E.G.]

Can't go wrong with a K-frame .38 and standard .38 Special loads.

The Model 10's were designed for the 158-grain lead bullet.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/DSCN3272smaller.jpg

[jkingrph]

S&W K frame 38. They made a 2"model at one time. My father had one and I could shoot that thing. I told him I wanted it if he ever decided to get rid of it. He forgot and sold it to a business associate. Still wish I could have gotten that gun.

[alaskagunner]

You might want her to hold off on purchasing a gun until after a ccw class. My wife just took an all women's ccw+ class this last weekend. She said the age range of the ladies was about 25-70 years old. Several of the women rented a revolver or semiauto to take the class with. I call it a "+" class because the all women's class covered more than was required for a ccw permit from the state of Alaska.

There were two 1911s, two or three revolvers, and a "bunch of plastic looking guns" in the class. My wife shot my 1911. She told me she had 0 misses on center mass and 0 misses on head shots. I'm so proud of her. I just wish they would have taught her how to clean the gun!!:)

A mid sized revolver for her class could be the ticket. She can use it for home defense and she can try out a snubby later to see if she'd consider it for ccw instead of a larger (read less recoiling) gun. If she takes a class you might be surprised what she picks out for herself later.

[searcher451]

My wife went through the training and after hearing all of the suggestions thought that a 5-shot revolver would be perfect for her. I picked out a Taurus with a light frame in .38 special; she fired it twice and hated it ... too much recoil, too much noise. She now accurately shoots a .32 Beretta Tomcat with confidence. It's far better to have her try something and agree to it before you buy it.

[wheelgunslinger]

a 22 revolver usually makes a good choice for the recoil sensitive. Maybe a 22 magnum or 32.

I'd let her shoot a few to see just how recoil sensitive she is.

I've been through this with my own mother who has a number of physical issues that keep her pretty feeble.

[Halo]

While the conventional wisdom says the .38 should be considered the minimum, anything is better than fingernails. You could try a .32, for years those were general issue police guns in Europe so they're not exactly cap guns.

On the other hand, you could be the good son and let her have your P228, since she shoots it the best.... :)

[jakk280rem]

an all steel j frame in 38spcl would be right up the ally. maybe a ladysmith.

[ArchAngelCD]

Ridgeway,
You don't need to try and find a K frame although they are nice revolvers. If you want to keep the recoil to a minimum you can suggest she buy a Steel S&W J frame like the M36, M40, M60, M640 or M649 or a Ruger SP101. If she loads any one of those revolvers with .38 Special ammo the recoil will probably be a non-issue.

Good luck finding something your Mom will want to carry!

[TimboKhan]

Dude, you need to take your mother to the gun store and let her feel different things. No offense intended here for you, but she may disagree with your suggestion once she has played around with other guns.

Caliber and recoil of is something that can be left up to you. If, inexplicably, your mom decided that a S&W .500 is just her style, you would be correct to point out that she will not like it. On the other hand, she may come to like a Buckmark more than what you suggest. If that's the case, let her shoot what she likes, not what you do.

Also, in terms of simplicity, is there anything easier than a Glock? The problem would be handfit, but it is simple.

[pete f]

let her try all sorts of guns.

she might surprise you.

I know a guy who lets his wife shoot very mild reload .38's out of a 4 inch 13,(fixed sight M19 S&W) and loads it when they get home with the speer short barrel +p+ loads. He knows that if she is ever forced to use the gun at home, the stress and anxiety of the event will eclipse any fear of recoil or blast.

I did the same with my daughter in her hunting rifle, all her shots at paper when she was 12 was with popper loads in a 6.5 mm swede. When she shot her deer, she never felt the near factory loads that were in the gun.

[The Bushmaster]

It's hard to beat a S&W model 10 with a 4" barrel and soft rubber grip panels.

[The-Fly]

She really needs to pick her own gun. That said......

A Glock 19C is fairly compact, and VERY easy on the recoil.

[astocks2622]

I know that most of the women who have tried my Bersa 380 have loved it. it's low recoil, easy to conceal, and though a little more complex than a revolver, still very simple to use. just a thought.

[svtruth]

reviewed in latest Rifleman and Gun Tests very favorably. Power of a .357 with less felt recoil than .38
And a very simple manual of arms.
Good luck.

[ZeSpectre]

While I would tend to suggest something in .38 special, the new Ruger SP101 in .327 Federal Magnums might be just the ticket. The only question is will this round catch on.

Of course even if it doesn't you could still shoot .32 H&R Magnum, and .32 long and .32 short cartridges through it.

Gunblast (Jeff Quinn) review
http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-SP101-327.htm

Chuck Hawks
http://www.chuckhawks.com/327_federal.htm

edit: Apparently SVtruth types faster than I do <grin>.

[easyg]

I think that most new shooters feel the recoil moreso with a revolver than with an auto (using similar weight guns, with similar caliber, and similar barrel-lengths).
So I would not recommend the revolver.

You really can't go wrong with a Glock, a S&W M&P auto, or a Springfield XD.
Using the overhand grasp, the slide is rather easily manipulated even by folks with weaker hands.

Good luck,
Easy.

[hirundo82]

Since she has had the best time with your P228, see if she can work a semiauto. Besides the P228, you may want to look at the SIG P225/P6 (like your P228 but single stack) or P239. A 9mm compact or subcompact Glock is also a good option.

If she needs the simpler manual of arms of a revolver, I'd say go with a relatively heavy gun with light loads, like a Ruger GP100 with 110 grain .38spl to start.

[The Lone Haranguer]

Well, in a revolver you want something with some heft to it and not firing an overly powerful cartridge. A medium-frame revolver like the S&W K-frames or the three-inch round butt version of the Ruger GP100, or a steel small-frame like the Ruger SP101, firing .38 Special or even some mild .357 Magnum loads, should be just dandy.

[langenc]

Take Mom to a good gunshop/range. Drop her off and let HER decide what she wants.

If you can find a place that rents or somehow allows her to shoot several prior to purchase that would be ideal. Perhaps a local gun club has pistol night and she could shoot there. Anyone that walks into our night can shoot anything we have there-at least a mag or 2.

[Rebailey]

Ridgeway, I have the perfect gun for you. Email me at:

baileywhitten2003@yahoo.com

[sm]

My position is known in regard to folks choosing their own gun and how important gun fit is to user.

That said.

I am familiar with those with arthritis, and other aches and pains from hand, wrist injuries and surgeries.

Here is what these gals and guys end of getting, and actually carrying.

Steel Revolvers with K frames and Colt D Frames being the most preferred.
Smith gets the advantage for good used police trade ins and such a wide variety of stocks to fit hands.

Colt Detective Specials are used these cost more money, and do require a real gunsmith, that knows what they are doing to work on one.

Ruger SP101 is well liked and being honest, they look for the older .38spl only ones.
New ones...nothing wrong, just if they can get a good used Smith instead of paying for a new Ruger, they prefer to do so.

Old Ruger Six series is well liked too.

Steel and Aluminum, is used by some folks, like Model 37 and Colt Agent, these are more "carried lots , shot less" guns, depending on hands.
Model 10 /64 snubby is preferred, but like one couple he had hip surgery, so wearing a gun - hurt.
Shoulder holster and model 37 did not.

These Tip up .380s are well received, just hard to find and pricey.
Good looking guns, accurate as all get out, and recoil is very easy , and easy to deal with.
Tip up 32s are another gun used.

Hands, wrist, fingers ( some have really bad fingers, others have partial finger missing or missing a finger all together) dictate what hands can do.

Some semi's flat hurt, even Ruger 22/45 in .22 cal does not fit the web of some hands, instead a Standard Ruger, steel frame, fits the hand better.

1911s, full size and commander, fit hands and the recoil is a "push" and the 185 gr load, with Win STHP being favored.
Guns like this load, and our experience that load feeds and extracts in every gun we have used it in.
So a gun has to feed and extract and shoot POA/POI
These folks can do this with this load and guns.


Glocks, especially 26 just flat hurts hands and the grip angle bugs the fire out of these folks.
Some used to be able to shoot a Glock, but getting worse, and minor surgery, forget it.

Other semis, like Sigs, HKs and do the same thing, one lady got rid of her XD after she got really bad, and had a surgery.
Doing better, and she went to a Colt Detective Special and for backup her old Beretta Jetfire.
That trigger is sweet, easy to pull, and the recoil does not hurt, with the recoil curve and how the gun fits her hand.

I and mine are seeing a lot of folks, get rid of new guns, and go back to OLDer guns, in steel and steel and aluminum.
Some had these guns, and went back to them.
Others, not having been exposed to these, have shot a variety of these and discovered something they never knew.

Pretty neat to sell a Glock 26 with extra mags and accessories and end up with two K frames breaking even on the deal.
Exactly what one lady did, and she could not be happier.

There is a reason some guns have stood the test of time, they have been investigated and verified for hands a lot longer than many new offerings and before many of the persons offering suggestions and advice were born.

That history being a good a teacher bit again...one learns if they pay attention to history...

Have a gun, be one with the gun , and be able to make quick effective hits.

That is the key, always has been , always will be.
I don't care what marketing, Internet or anyone else ever says.

[Fozzy_Bear]

I hate to buck all of the above... but...

I think the question is off target from the start.

If your mother can't handle the recoil of large, or even medium caliber firearm, then it's the wrong choice. Light calibers are only affective if you are exceedingly accurate with them. It's likely your mom won't spend much time on the range to get that skill.

For late night dog walking, a can of pepper spray is quite possibly a much better choice.

I'm not just spouting off here. This is the solution I chose myself in a similar situation (my wife though... my mom doesn't have a dog).


- Just a thought


edit: but just to echo one thing that SM said above. I myself carry a 1911 (full or officer's , depending) loaded with Winchester Silvertips. - I have been very happy with that ammo for a very long time. I have seen numerous reviews of it and although it almost never is "the best" ammo in a test, it is always among the top performers, even compared to much newer technologies. I also recommend it. - and I have it loaded in every gun I own that they make a round for.

[easyg]

Another bad thing about the revolvers....unless she will only be shooting single-action, the heavy double-action trigger pull is not very pleasant (or accurate) for someone with weak or arthritic fingers.

[Phil DeGraves]

"Another bad thing about the revolvers....unless she will only be shooting single-action, the heavy double-action trigger pull is not very pleasant (or accurate) for someone with weak or arthritic fingers."

This is a very real concern along with being able to rack the slide on an auto pistol.
Let her decide which system she prefers and make sure she has the strength to pull the trigger or rack the slide. I know some women who prefer Ruger Single Sixes in .32 for just those reasons.

[sm]

Semi : Single action trigger, such as 1911, allows more hands and fingers to better use trigger and effectivley keep sights on target as they pull.

Revolver: The older revolvers, have a much better trigger pull and afford one the ability to get a nicer trigger pull.

a. Older guns came with smoother triggers back in the day.
b. Metallurgy, craftmanship and other factors allow them to be smoothed whereas some new materials and designs impeded this.


One other note, and this is a Medium size gun is going to allow for more ease of pulling a trigger, over a smaller gun, if you think about Leverage, and Fulcrums.

Same reason a smaller gun is difficult to get a smoother action job, there is simply not enough room for all the levering and action going on to smooth it, and at the same time be assured of reliable strikes to ignite primer.

Folks get a good revolver, with a smooth trigger, and learn to shoot Double Action - IME/IMO are instilling correct basic, and muscle strength , that will transistion to any platform later on.

Revolvers-
Folks with arthritis, for instance , can sit there and dry fire practice, and not only gain skills, keeping a dime on the front sight or bbl as they dry fire through cylinder over and over and again , this also "Physical Therapy" in keeping fingers, hands, wrist loosened up and strengthen.

They do this with both hands...just like some use a squeeze ball, some use a nice revolver with a nice trigger and keep that arthritis at bay.

Looks good.
Sure a person needs to like the gun, or else they will not want to shoot it, or every be any good with it, or even carry it.

Attitude goes a l-o-n-g way in healing the body.
Medicine has shown this time and time again with folks dealing with being injured, sick and disease, if a person has a positive attitude, they are healthier.
Period.

Now young folks do not always think about such things, they don't or won't look at something from another person's perspective.

There is another dimension many young folks, even ladies, never consider, past the gun is "pretty" or "cute".

Mature adults have lived longer, had more life experiences, and have seen things come and go.
Live long enough - and this happens.

Some things just "are" and is common sense and practical.

These folks have seen all sorts of fads, fashions and trends come and go.

Single Action Semis, Revolvers, and Tip Up Semis, are good looking tools, common sense, timeless and proven.

This is a Positive Attitude factor, and contributes to them wanting to use a gun, carry it, practice and be very good with it.

Just like they do not want a goopy looking set of kitchen skillets, and they don't care about name brands, fashion, newest technology or price tag to impress friends, they don't care if the newest Lady Cook or Gentleman Chef...

Cast Iron Cookware - is proven.
If the arthritis flares up, and it hurts to lift the weight of a cast iron skillet, they use the stainless steel with copper bottom, another proven design, that is classic and is lighter in weight.

They don't want that light weight Teflon, that will not last, as it gets scratches and becomes Toxic.


It is my contention a whole bunch of ladies and gents out there dealing with folks and guns, need to spend time in the "shoes" of those they are assisting.

It is easy to be 17, 25, 35, 40 years old, and be a whole, healthy female or male and "tell" folks what they ought to do.

It is another to sit in that wheelchair, roll one to a lift on a handicapped van, and ride up. Talk about feeling vulnerable!
I and mine do this!
You ain't lived until in a training excercise and done this, and been attacked by a role player getting to that lift and being turned over and out, especially up on that lift, and it is a long way down to the ground, off that lift, tangled in a wheel chair or Amigo portable scooter.

So these moms, dads, aunts, uncles, grandparents, teenage sons and daughters, and others, with problems with hands, fingers and guns, need to be listened too.
Forget "telling" a student what to do, one is wise to listen and learn from them.

One day one themselves may get sick, injured , diseased, or develop arthritis, called life.

There is a reason grandparents still use Cast Iron, stainless and copper cooking utensils, not because they are old and tight with money, they know this fits them and it works.
Old Hickory kitchen knives, besides many reasons I have shared, if one looks, might see a file and sandpaper has been taken to the wood to fit that hand in order for them to use more effectively with injured, or arthritic hands, fingers,and wrists.

Principles apply to handguns.

Ink pens.
This sounds trivial, still arthritic hands have trouble some days writing.
What we have seen, is some of these writing instruments with the odd shapes and all actually make the arthritis worse.
It does not matter what anyone says, or who puts a sticker from whatever arthrisitis foundation on the pen , or endorses it.

That writing instrument does not fit the user, and really, some make matters worse.
Some of the older classic designs still work better and folks will pay more more money , for the same pen, in one that is "pretty" or "cute" or "masculine" or handsome - because they feel good about themselves with that pen and that positive attitude contributes to them feeling better.

I go way back on this, as do some others, and some are doctors, nurses, physical therapists and the like.
Input from these in conjunction with the persons with injury , disease, physical limits, and arthristis trumps anyone , male or female, that is not informed and I don't care if they teach or instruct folks somewhere.

Right is Right and mis-informed is mis-informed.

Don't ever talk down to injured, diseased, physically limited or arthritic person around me and mine.
Don't.
Hickory axe handles are a proven attitude adjustment tool and we like staying in practice with tools we like too.

[coylh]

Recoil sensitivity may just be a mental thing. Use plugs and high db muffs at the range so it's really not just noise sensitivity. In a sufficient caliber, you're going to trade gun weight for recoil, I'm afraid.

[The Bushmaster]

easyg...Not necessarly so...My wife's defence gun is a mod 10-5 and she has no problem with double action...

[springmom]

Take her shopping.

You can't pick the gun for her. You say she shoots your P228 well? If that's what she wants, buy her one. Unlike a lot of guys who ask "what gun for..."
you have a mom who already has good data for her choice.

There are several issues:

concealability
weight of the gun
weight of the trigger pull
ability to rack a slide
and one which usually gets ignored: ease of disassembly/reassembly

For those of us who have arthritis, that last one can be just as important as the others. One of the things I liked best about my Springfield XD (my first handgun that I myself bought) was that it takes about five seconds and very little hand strength to take it apart and put it back together. Much different than the "hold your teeth right and breathe and say a Hail Mary" of taking apart, say, a Kimber, or putting together any 1911 (which I now do easily, but it would not have been good juju for that to be my FIRST gun!)

Take her shopping, and while she's looking at guns, suggest that she ask to try them with holsters. Lots of guys never think of this, but the way a gun rides on us is way different than how it rides on you; and she needs to ensure that she can conceal effectively on those dog walks.

Tell her congratulations for taking this step; take her shopping, and have fun. Do not take anyone's recommendations as to what she should have as gospel; she will find the one that fits her hand, is right for her, that she can conceal, and then she's set.

Happy shopping!

Springmom

[The Bushmaster]

Not a problem, Springmom...I get all the gun cleaning jobs around here...

All of your list are good as my wife has a bit of a time with auto slides. She positivaly loves her 2" mod 10. The action has enough age and use on it that the double action is smooth and slick...And she has Rumitoid arthritis...

[ravencon]

The advice to have her do her own shopping is sound.

If available, a good gun to look at (if available) is a Ruger in .32 magnum. A light recoiling round in a fairly heavy revolver. The downside is that ammo is not common in most gun stores and the double action is likely to be heavy and not so smooth until worked on.