[TamThompson]

I was out running in St. Ed's park on Old Spicewood Springs Road in Austin. There's a sign in the parking lot: "All dogs on leash," with a graphic.

Towards the end of my workout, I saw a largish UNLEASHED dog come running around the corner towards me. It began barking and accelerating towards me. I shouted "NO! NO!" loudly; 90% of the time that will get the owner, who's usually near, to call off the dog.

No response. Two more dogs round the same corner, and now I've got three of 'em charging me, all barking and snarling. I grab my pepper spray and yell "Call off your dogs NOW!"

No response. When the dogs were 6 feet or less from me, I sprayed 'em, using "The 'Disabler'" 15% O.C. pepper spray. They paused. At that point, while I'm still holding the spray out, the woman owner comes around the corner with yet a fourth dog, this one on leash, and says, somewhat indignantly, "They're FRIENDLY!" (As if I should know that.) :fire:

My reply: "I have NO way of knowing if they're friendly--they charged me! And I have a friend who had to have 18 stitches in his leg because a "friendly" dog came bounding up to say hello, got tangled in my friends legs as he was running, and caused him to fall."

No response. She left.

I am severely pissed. This is not the first time this has happened to me out there. Had she asked me if I'd sprayed her damned dogs, I'd have said: "I sure did, and you ought to be glad that's all they got, 'cause I'm also carrying a Spyderco Delica knife, and I do have a Concealed Handgun License and I'm packing a Keltec P32 right now in my waist pack."

Called the police non-emergency number to ask for additional leash-law enforcement out there, and was shuttled back and forth between the City of Austin and Travis County, and finally just gave up, having real work to do.

But I'm pissed that most dog owners in Austin seem to think leash laws don't appy to them if their dog is FRIENDLY (that's what they all use as an excuse.) Friendly to WHOM?

I'm going to write a letter to the paper.

[TamThompson]

OH--and I should add, I'm a dog lover and dog owner myself. But our two black labs don't go out the front door without a leash on. It hurts me to have to have sprayed a dog, and I really wouldn't like to have to shoot one. That's why I really hate it when people put me in that position.

[Aleko]

And I bet your labs are friendly, too. ;)

[TamThompson]

They are, indeed, yet they're still ALWAYS on leash when in public.

[Aleko]

Just pullin' your leg... ;) :p

[TamThompson]

I know--I could tell.
I guess I'm still just a bit on edge after a very near attack like that. I just ordered myself a whole ton of FoxLabs pepper spray (which I understand is the very best kind.) They have a some really neat holsters for athletes, like a wrist one for running and a bike frame-mounted one. :cool:

[444]

That is cool. I am going to look into this and get a bike mount.
Have you got a link for that bike mount ?

[TheeBadOne]

There are quite a few pi$$ poor animal owners out there. A dog is not a person, it is a dog and needs to be protected from itself. Leash/chain, always. People bitch at a driver when their dog gets hit on the road. Well duh, the dog don't know better, keep them on a leash! :rolleyes:
I've been close to spraying a dog when the person is right there doing nothing too. I've even told them to get control of their dog as it is acting agressivly and I fear it may bite me. They just stand there saying not to worry until I add I'm about to spray their dog. Then in a huff, "There's no need to do that" is hurtled my way to which I reply, "No, not if you're dogs are under control....but they ain't". >sigh< :scrutiny:
I suspect these types are the reason that most public parks in my area ban dogs, leashed or not. :banghead:

[TamThompson]

Here's where you can get the bike-mounted holster, as well as a wrist-mounted one for running:
http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/spray_holders.htm

Yes, it's very sad how irresponsible most dog owners are these days. I've noticed that most of them don't respond to my yelling "NO!" loudly at their dog, nor do they respond to "Call your dogs off now!". Sadly, the ONLY thing that gets them to respond every time is to put my hand on my pepper spray, or unclip it from my waistband. Then they'll all of a sudden get super-responsible about calling that dog. :cuss:

And don't even get me started on picking up after their animals...it's gotten so bad that I've taken to complimenting the few owners I see carrying plastic bags and walking their dogs on a leash.

[Lexter]

Seems like the stinkin' owners should get a little spray too!

Reinforcement (Pavlov)!!!



Lexter in NC

[ranger7]

I'm interested in the dogs' reaction. How effective was the pepper spray?

Alan

[Al Thompson]

Me 2. :) Glad you came out OK. That's the important part.

[TamThompson]

Thanks for the kind words, Al!

Well, I didn't react like I'd rehearsed. I was told to make an X pattern for humans, but these were 3 snarling canines, so I sprayed in a horizontal line. They *did* stop barking and snarling, but didn't seem too terribly disturbed, and appeared just about ready to start up again when the owner appeared. They looked like either golden labs or retrievers, really quite good-looking dogs, and I'm sure they had a good nature, but they probably just thought "Attacker/runner running towards my master--must defend." I don't think dogs understand fitness running AT ALL. :rolleyes:

That's why I've ordered the stronger Fox Labs spray. This stuff only seemed to make them pause a bit, and it was 15% spray from a gun store. The spray I used didn't seem quite long-enough lasting, and it also didn't have much of a range. I really don't like having to let a snarling dog get very close before I spray.

Side note: when I was a little girl, and dogs would chase us on our bikes, we started carrying water pistols filled with ammonia. Had to use it a few times, and a squirt of that on a dog's nose would cause them to IMMEDIATELY stop chasing and paw at their nose. They were always OK, though--no permanent harm done.

If worse comes to worse, I think you CAN legally shoot a dog that's attacking you (in Texas), but I sure wouldn't want to have to. I wouldn't have been able to do it in time, either--my Keltec P32 (tiny back-up gun I carry while running/cycling) was in my waistpack on the small of my back. I'm rethinking where that should be carried. Spyderco was handy--on waistband--but I'd sure hate to have to get into a knife fight with a dog. There's no way I'd come out unscathed.

[TheeBadOne]

Pepper spray on dogs doesn't look the same as on humans. You don't usually see them flopping on the ground or rolling around. What you do usually see is the aggression switch flip off. I've seen a few nasty dogs sprayed and that's what it looked like to me. From snarling snapping teeth to head down, tail down standing there. Guess I'll take that effect vs nothing!

All the best

[Kingcreek]

I've sprayed 2 dogs with pepper spray (def-tek)
one piled up like I'd clubbed him and the other was completely unfazed.
???
Now I carry Fox labs and I'm waiting to test it on my neighbors boxer. This SOB was attacking my tractor tires! while I was doing some field work on my land and 1/4mi from his place!!

[444]

I have posted this a couple times before, but since the subject came up......
I had my own dog pepper sprayed.
I was living "in town" at the time and was getting ready to take my dog for a walk. He is very well trained and I never put him on a leash until I was out of the yard. I went out the door, told him to sit and was locking my front door. Behind me I heard Psssst. I turned around and the mailman was pepper spraying my dog. My dog was sitting there, on my porch, right beside me. He hadn't moved, he didn't growl, nothing. In addition, after being pepper sprayed, he didn't have any reaction to it at all. Zero. He didn't even change the expression on his face. I said to the guy, why did you do that ? My dog wasn't doing anything to you. He said, we don't take chances with dogs like that. I said, well, as you can see it doesn't work, so maybe you better rethink that plan of yours.
I thought about calling someone about it, but I was told that the only result would be that they would stop delivering mail to your house if they had a dog issue.
In this case, I have a problem. When my dog is on my property and is not behaving aggressively, I consider what he did to be battery. I realize it is "only" a dog, but his use of force against it was totally uncalled for as well as totally ineffective.
I took the dog for his walk of several miles including some basic obiedience drills at the park. He didn't care at all that he was pepper sprayed.
If the dog had decided to get aggresive with him, all the pepper spray in the world wouldn't have saved him.
I have seen a lot of violence committed by humans against humans. I really didn't think to much of it. I have been to a number of championship boxing bouts and wasn't phased at all.
I once saw two rottweilers get into a fight at a shutzhund club meeting. I suddenly had a cold feeling come over my whole body. There was something about it that made my blood run cold. It was the most brutal thing I ever saw.

[Jim March]

You want to see the most determined, all-out counterattack to an attacking dog ever? Watch a dog pick a fight with a ferret. Little boogers just obviously turn into berzerkers. And I don't mean the dog. In fact, once a ferret goes into total combat mode, it's highly unsafe even for the owner to grab 'em from behind, they'll turn and strike before they can register who it is. (And THEN they get visibly embarassed.)

Anyways. 444, that mailman was an utter lunatic.

On dogs: when dogs are bounding towards you, the #1 way of spotting "playfulness" versus aggression is to watch the tongue. If it's flapping loose for maximum cooling power, he doesn't expect to have to chomp down on something. Hence that classic doggy "happy face" look really is indicative of harmlessness. Granted, they can get tangled up with you but that's not the same thing as aggression.

I can recall walking down the street years ago with a friend in a VERY nasty area (Richmond, Calif.) and having two dogs rush us. I just grinned, reached down and petted them. He was behind me wrapping his jacket around his arm and when I turned, he was clearly terrified. I said "relax, they're OK".

He couldn't figure out how I *knew* that. He thought I was showing courage...wasn't anything of the sort, from my point of view, I *knew* they were friendly. It was the tongues. In "combat mode", they're retracted. Always.

At some point, cold weather may cause them to keep their tongues in more. That'll make them look "meaner". But I'm not aware of ANY cases that went the other way with "false data", where the dog let his tongue flop around until the moment of chomp.

I'm not certain, but I suspect that dogs read US as being "meanies" for keeping our tongues in. It might look stupid, but letting your tongue flop around may be the main doggy body language signal for "I'm friendly".

The tail don't mean squat. Ignore it.

[TamThompson]

Thee,
Then I guess the spray worked, since they stopped being aggressive!

444,
You'll get no argument from me. The mailman clearly overreacted. I'd have been pissed if it was my dog, too. I guess they're edgy because mail deliverers have frequent encounters with dogs, and I've heard that if you get flagged as a "problem" customer, they'll quit delivering and you'll have to pick up your mail at the P.O. Maybe you could complain to the SPCA, or even PETA? (Seriously.)

Jim,
Good to know. I don't quite remember where these dogs' tongues were, since I was scared, but I think they may have been somewhat lolling. HOWEVER, it was about 95 degrees, so I wonder if there's a point at which even an aggressive dog's tongue lolls because it's damned hot outside. Also, they were barking at me, and accelerating toward me. Like I said, even if they were just friendly, I could easily have been tripped (I have an unstable left knee.)

[Iain]

This is a bit weird - they were in a park and still have to kept on a leash? Not many parks like that in the UK.

Having said that, I don't take chances with dogs, I have one and when I take him out on walks we often encounter other dogs who are more than a little *interested* in mine (he is neutered). He is not keen on other dogs, especially when they try and mount him, growls and aggressive behaviour ensue. Theo usually gets right by my side when another dog comes charging over. The thing is the other owner then gets pissed that my dog defended himself like that. That makes me angry because 9 times out of 10 the other dog has charged half way across the park to get to my dog (who never leaves my sight, and rarely more than 20 metres away) ignoring the calls of its owner, and refuses to go back to its owner which means I have to walk Theo and his amorous ''friend'' back over to where the dog came from.

I don't like doing that - why should somebody else expect me to shepherd their dog around, a dog I don't know and much less trust. Luckily enough it has never turned all that nasty, but breaking up a dog fight (were my dog to get really pissed at being mounted or just attacked himself - hope neither ever happens) is something I would hardly know how to do - grab collars and not tails is all I know.

Some people just boot their dogs out of a morning, that is worse, we had one follow us home from the park once (only about 1/2 a mile but still). People are not responsible enough with animals that can potentially do serious harm.

[Mr Jody Hudson]

Notes based on my experience...

Pepper spray goes weak and bad in a matter of months, even if not used at all... Not all 15% is equal in power, nor any other percentage.

The strongest most formidable "spray" I've ever found; is a small nalgene wide-mouth bottle, with a quick screw-on cap FILLED with the strongest Cayenne pepper dust available, special order, from a health food store. I then, carefully, OUTSIDE... with mask and gloves and disposable coveralls, fill several large nalgene bottles to the 3/4 mark with the powder and then add Grain Alcohol from the liquor store to the top of the bottle. This allows the pepper to be handleable as the dust is just too dangerous. I then make condiment labels on my computer to label my carry bottle as a hot pepper sauce -- for MY protection in areas that don't allow pepper sauce to be carried for personal protection. The large bottles I store in the freezer where I've seen no deterioration for several years. And, this stuff is pretty inexpensive. Just be very careful adding to foods as one drop can be too much for a large pot of stew!!!!

MORE DATA:
Cayenne, Capsicum, Capsaicin aka the defensive red pepper!
Cayenne [capsicum annum] is derived from the Greek word capsicum, meaning, “to bite”. The capsicum plant is a small spreading shrub that originated in South and Central Americas and is easily cultivated in the West Indies and is now widely grown and harvested throughout the world, including the United States.

Cayenne’s Medicinal Uses: “Cayenne, also know as red pepper, is both an herb and a spice obtained from the dried, ground fruit of various hot red chili peppers [capsicum frutescens], that contain the compound capsaicin, which reduces pain and inflammation, probably by blocking the activity in the body of substance P, a compound needed for transmitting pain impulses.” “The Complete Guide to Natural Healing” (Natural Health, Tom Monte).

Capsaicin comprises about 12% of the pepper and was isolated by chemists more than a century ago. It should be noted that capsaicin is derived from capsicum. While both are very potent, capsaicin is the strongest derivative of cayenne and is usually found in very small amounts. It is also one of the main ingredients in self-defense sprays.

Next to ginger, cayenne is the next best thing for digestion. Spicy foods contribute to heartburn, yet the most taste bud-puckering pepper out there will get rid of it. Cooked cayenne pepper will irritate your digestive tract and possibly cause ulcers.

The dried, uncooked and POWDERED herb is always used for purposes of healing. Drying the cayenne pepper cures the acids thereby eliminating any caustic effects. Cayenne is a stimulant and an antiseptic that contains a large amount of Vitamin C and beta-carotene. Regulating the flow of blood, cayenne strengthens the heart, arteries, and nerves. If you feel a cold coming on, take cayenne pepper to ward it off. The heating properties of cayenne will stimulate circulation increasing the ability to sweat it out.
Cayenne pepper is sold in health food stores in gelatin capsules or bagged as a loose powder. It is highly recommended that you take cayenne pepper capsules AFTER a meal, especially in the morning.

As Vitamin E is available in I.U.’s [International Units}, and cayenne is available in H.U.’s [Heat Units]. Cayenne’s lowest grade is 40 H.U. (Heat Units). The middle range is double that, and the high end is called African Bird Pepper and is rated from 180 H.U. up to 200,000 H.U.! Taking high-ranked dosages of cayenne isn’t going for the Gold in the Olympics – it’s not higher, stronger, faster that makes this herb better. So that’s why you always need to start off with the smallest dose and then work your way up from there if necessary.

Cayenne also acts as a carrier herb in that when mixed with other herbs it helps them speed them through your system.

Cayenne pepper, always in the powdered form, can be used externally for wounds and cuts. Upon application there is a slight sting, but it’s the cleansing action that’s immediately taking effect. (The Grain Alcohol, from the liquor store does no harm here either, and allows the Pepper Sauce to be used for health uses too.)

For someone who is in a state of shock, a tiny pinch applied directly onto his or her tongue will assist the person. What cayenne does is get the circulation revved up as it restores the out of whack equilibrium that gets messed up in a shocking situation.

Another external use for cayenne would be for sinus congestion. Instead of taking an expensive over the counter cold medicine, just add a pinch of cayenne to a glass of water and gently sniff it up each nostril. This will get rid of congestion in most cases and clean away the infection.

This bright orange red herb is known to heal gum infections and eliminate the pain of abscesses. Dip your wet toothbrush into some cayenne pepper or else add a pinch of it atop the toothpaste. Rinsing with cayenne will also benefit your gums and if you gargle with it you will have a strong throat.
Cayenne pepper builds the blood as it’s assimilated into the body as well, if not better, than iron.

Culinary Cayenne: In some Southeast Asian countries, cayenne peppers are consumed daily. Another way of rating chilies amongst the growers is a heat scale from 1 to 10, with 10 being the hottest. Topping the list is the Habanera, the hottest chili with that 10 rating. Used in the Caribbean barbeque as an intense flavoring for the jerk sauces, it’s also bottled into salsa.

Cayenne is also one very hot chili that invigorates many Cajun and stir-fry dishes. It is rated an 8 on the heat scale. Jalapenos are only a level 5 on the heat scale. Famous around the culinary world, jalapenos are often found as a topping for nachos and make a great salsa and salad ingredient. Tabasco chilies are definitely hot with an 8 rating and are also the main source for the famous hot sauce that carries their name. The name Yellow Wax usually means a chili that isn’t all that hot. However, it can be rated as high as an 8. Some varieties are virtually heatless. Mostly used in the form of pickled chilies, salsas and chopped up in salads. The above from http://ut.essortment.com/cayennecuring_rnsj.htm

And now from Fox regarding Fox Police Grade Self Defense Pepper Sprays: as written on http://www.securityplanet.com/fx012.htm

Fox Pepper Spray is the Hottest in the World!! - 5.3 Million SHU!! Developed for law enforcement – AND, Now available to the public!
What is a SHU?: The Scoville Heat Unit is a rating system to determine the "hot" in OC pepper. Back in 1912, a pharmacologist named Wilbur Scoville came up with the standard for measuring the power of capsaicin. Scoville measured the ground pepper into a mixture of sugar, water and alcohol. Then, a panel of five tasters sipped the mixture and gave it a grade; it took a majority of three to assign a value.

The pepper scale ranges from zero Scoville unit for a bell pepper to 5,000 or so for a jalapeno to a whopping 200,000 - 300,000 for a habanero! Pure capsaicin is 15,000,000. The oleoresin capsicum used in our formulas are derived from the hottest peppers and further processed and refined until the heat rating is 5,300,000 (5.3 million!).

Law Enforcement from Fox® surpasses all other OC pepper for effectiveness with it's incredible 5.3 million rating on the SHU @ only a 2% solution. The 2% solution is extremely important in that developing a spray for law enforcement, Fox wanted a spray that would be near paralyzing in it's effect but would allow for a minimum recovery time.

Where a 15% solution will usually allow 1-1/2 to 2 hours for full recovery, a 2% solution will enable the individual to recover fully after only 15-30 minutes.

As a side benefit, a thinner solution allowed for better and much faster penetration of the pores and mucus membranes. On one of our own field tests, one of our employees shot the spray up into the air, held their breath and closed their eyes allowing the blast to blow right through and past their head area. Within 1 second they we're fully immobilized and could not see for clearly not open their eyes for 15 minutes. At the 20 minute mark, they were fine. Incredible!!
Here is another source for Fox Pepper Spray; http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/pepperinfo.htm

My decision is to carry a nalgene bottle, 4 oz. for all sorts of uses and buy small quantities of Fox Spray, as it goes somewhat weak, after about 6-10 months. I have stopped using the very small keychain units as they proved to me that quantity does count so I use the larger units now with a couple of more ounces of liquid in them...

Take care!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jody

[TamThompson]

St. Johns,
Yes--most U.S. cities have leash laws--all dogs in public must be on a leash, since a huge number of Americans are unwilling to take time to train their dogs properly (or their children, either!)

However, in many progressive cities, such as my own Austin, there are certain parks with designated "off-leash" areas where owners may take their dogs and allow them to roam and mingle. These are also called "dog parks." What really irritates me abou the incident I described is that:

1. We have at least 12 of these "off-leash" areas here in Austin, but noooo, the woman had to bring her horde to one of the other parks.
2. There's an "off-leash" area of a park about 2 miles down the road where she could have gone, were she not clueless and lazy.

Jody,
Thanks for all the good info. I just ordered a *ton* of FoxLabs---will it keep longer if it is refrigerated?

Thanks!

[Mr Jody Hudson]

I would ask Fox about the storage considerations.

Personally, I would consider rather than the refrigerator, with all those temperature changes they go throught that it would be better to put it in the freezer, in a double ziplock freezer bag, with all the air squeezed out... but check with them to make certain that will not put any valves in danger on the spray cans... etc.

[JShirley]

I'm a dog lover, but that doesn't mean my dog has the right to charge people, outside my residence or land.

I used the tiniest little burst of pepper spray years ago on my own dog. I had given her a bone, and she had crawled underneath the desk to chew it.

Well, I had to get the desk. She looked at me suspiciously.

Sweetie, I have to get to the computer.

She didn't believe me.

Honey, I just need the computer. I don't want what you've got, really.

She growled. I gave her the slightest possible little "spt". She let go of the bone, wiggled closer to my feet, and because my usual best friend. :rolleyes:

John
Protect your dogs- keep 'em off me. :D

[Sir Galahad]

The last dog that attacked me is dead. While operating a tow truck, I had a rottweiler come after me. A J-hook on the end of a chain is a one-whack stop. I will kill any dog that attacks me without hesitation. I don't know why people think I should be able to read their dogs intentions. What am I, freakin' Dr. Doolitle or something? :rolleyes: The owner gets one warning when their unleashed dog approaches me: If that dog attacks me or threatens me, I will kill your dog. Period. Law says dogs must be leashed. Law says I can defend myself if attacked by an animal or person. I dont know why people think it's "cute" for their dogs to jump on people, sniff at them, or menace them. I don't like other peoples' dogs.

We just had two cougars that had to be shot by Game & Fish because of some hippie's unleashed dog. Hippie goes on a trail clearly marked "ALL dogs MUST be leashed." So what does he do "Oh, bummer, maaan. Moonbeam needs to run free." So he did not leash his dog. Cougar sees animal runing loose away from human and thinks, "Ah, a Swanson's Hungry Cat!" and bites into tender canine flank steak. So, hippie comes running back down trail crying to Game & Fish about his poor wittle doggy that got attacked by an animal that, oh, LIVES there. Now Game & Fish HAS to do something. Trackers find two big cats and blast them. Then all the hippes start this candlelight vigil for those poor cats THEIR freakin' irresponsible pet ownership killed! Oh, but noooo...it was Game & Fish's fault! :rolleyes: They didn't hold everyone on the trail's hand! Cougar shuld have ate the hippie as far as I'm concerned, but the cat was probably afraid of what disease he'd catch if he did.

[TamThompson]

Used to have a plumber who told me about being attacked by 4 Rottweilers that were *supposed* to have been chained up. They went for him, and he killed the first of them with a big ol' pipewrench, and laid out another one, then a third chomped it's teeth into his arm. Owner was out there by then, and had the nerve to protest the killing of his dog, and to contest the plumber's medical bills! Plumber's lawyer finally got his medical paid for, though.

[Jim March]

Sir Galahad,

I'm not saying you shouldn't defend yourself, or that you HAVE to "read the dog's mind".

That said, if a dog is bounding up to you purely because he's playful and friendly, it's a damned shame if somebody mistakes that for aggression and kills the poor thing.

I've watched a lot of videos of dog attacks, I've played with a LOT of dogs in parks and such plus owned several myself as a kid, and I've never seen a dog get aggressive from a tongue-out expression. If a dog is worried, or puzzles, or anything similar, he retracts the tongue. In other words, I'm not saying "no tongue means he's going to bite" - not hardly. What I'm saying is, if the tongue is flopping around loose, he has zero aggressive intent, at least at that moment. If he gets the idea you're a threat, the tongue will get sucked in. If he's puzzled by your behavior, the tongue will come in. Doesn't necessarily mean he'll bite.

Some of the data I'm working from comes from watching dogs approach my ferrets. ALL were at a minimum puzzled by them, and hence no tongue. Dozens of times, they realized the ferts were playful and would bound around with 'em...and every single time, out came that doggy tongue.

Ferret body language is quite different from dogs. VERY different. The only real similarity is the "play bow" stance, but it's close enough that (most)dogs understand it when they see it, hence rather hilarious play sessions sometimes happen even when the dog has never seen a skinnykitty before.

[brownie0486]

Out walking my Akita [ now gone to doggie heaven two weeks ago at 12 1/2 yrs old ] one night for her late night relief.

On leash, on the sidewalk. Dog visiting the neighbors house [ wifes daughter and husband were on the lawn in plain view ] rushes me and mine.

I tight leash her to my thigh for control as she wants to protect me from the onrushing dog. The mutt was threatening/menacing real good running in circles around us looking for an opening.

I yelled to the owners to get their dog back onto the property. They both stand there and do nothing. I yell again that if they don't grab the bitch I'll kill it.

The guy says something like "oh ya, I don't think so".

I pull the 380 NAA from the front pocket and point it at the dog, all the time circling to keep the dog in front of us. My Akita is doing what I want her to do and thats nothing while tight leashed [ daddy's got control here ]. We were dancing pretty quick at this time.

The guy sees the 380 and says I better not shoot his dog. He moves in and takes the dog back to the yard by the collar. I put the 380 back into my pocket. He says he's calling the police. I tell him go right ahead.

I finishe the walk with mine, which took us back by the house on the oposite side of the street from their property.

Cops show up as I'm getting to my house. They talk to the neighbors and then over to my driveway. Want to know what happened.

I simply stated that their dog was menacing me and mine and the owner refused to getr it under control with a few warnings. Then the part about the piece coming out. They laughed and and went back to the neighbors for more discussion.

I know what they told them in so many words or less [ the cops know who I am and the background ]. Neighbor called the wife the next day and bitched to her.

Got home, heard about the call, got the PD back to my house and over to the neighbors with the cruiser and an officer. Told the lady file all the complaints she wants to. The next time her daughter visits and the dog rushes me I'll kill it immediately. Cop tells her the dog is supposed to be leashed and I'm within my rights if endangered by the dog.

Never saw the daughter or the dog there again next door. They were terrified I was pointing the muzzle in the dogs face. Don't think they expected when I said I would kill it that I actually had something that would get the job done PDQ.

My Akita was 95 pounds, solid as a rock, but I would not let her ever fight others dogs for fear she could be injured and then I'd get real angry. She wanted to go but was not allowed to. She knew what the short leash meant to us [ I have the control and would protect her ].


Brownie

[coldshot03/04]

My dogs get sprayed by the meter man every month.:D

[TheeBadOne]

Good job/outcome brownie. Sometimes you wonder if there shouldn't be some kind of standard in order to own a pet...:scrutiny:

[brownie0486]

TheeBadOne:

The owner/visitor [ son in law to owner of house ] was smiling the whole time while he was letting me do the "dance" with mine on the walkway.

He wasn't smiling when he saw I was ready to end his relationship with the poor dog PDQ. Moved right on out to the walkway and grabbed the beast under protest about the gun pointing at his dogs head.

This probably could not have happened as it did if mine wasn't such a "lady" when on the short leash. Hard to control a big dog with one hand and deal with anothers dog and the gun at the same time unless mine was being "good" about the whole affair.

Thanks for the comments.

Brownie

[JShirley]

Brownie,

Sorry 'bout losing your baby. Glad to hear you had so many good years, though.

John

[TamThompson]

I have to wonder how many idiot's final words are something like "Go ahead, SHOOT me!" said in a very taunting tone because they think you won't/can't do it. Or maybe it's the last thing some dogs hear, just because they're unfortunate enough to have an irresponsible jerk of an owner.

[Iain]

To my mind owning a dog is a terrific responsibility, we take our responibility with the dog very seriously. Far too many people around where we live don't. We used to have a pet rabbit that was killed by my drug dealing (now in prison) neighbours dogs after they broke into our garden at night.

What did they say to us to apologise? ''We'll get you another rabbit.'' Which summed up their attitude to animals in one sentence.

[brownie0486]

John :

I've had many dogs in the 50+ yrs I've been around, many well trained and others just naturally protective in the home.

The Akita [ named Akasha ] that I just put down was of the latter. She was so subtle about protecting momma around strangers when dad wasn't around people never noticed her body language as "watching" them.

She was a good old girl who gave everything we could ever want in a dog and now rests on my fireplace mantel in a custom urn, she goes where we go from now to eternity.

In the earlier related instance, if the dog was aggressing on me alone the gun would not have been needed. I was actually protecting my best friend from any harm.

I owed her so much over the 12 years, it was the least I could do.

Thanks for the thoughts, much appreciated sir.

Brownie

[Iain]

Brownie -

I also would like to add my sympathies that such an obviously loved dog passed on.

I love my dog for many of the same reasons you loved yours. Not sure how I am ever going to replace the boy.

Iain.

[brownie0486]

Iain:

Thanks for the thoughts. She was the daughter we never had.

I once had a man threaten the wife and dog while walking.

After I approached him, his first comment was " I didn't threaten your wife". I replied he could threaten her all he wanted but if he ever touched the dog he'd be cold forever.

Mess with the wife, maybe.
Mess with the dog, ya get what ya get and it won't be pretty.

Luckily the wife understood my meaning.:rolleyes:

Brownie

[Jim March]

Brownie: the only thing I'd have done different would be to draw and fire in one smooth stroke. The first indication that fool would have had that I was armed with a gun would be when he heard the shot, and it would have gone right into that dog's brainpan.

Not only would I have gotten out of it in one piece, so would whoever gets chewed by that thing eventually :fire:.

[Sir Galahad]

Jim, it's like this. I don't want to read a dog's mind. I shouldn't have to. I don't like dogs ever since being attacked by the one I killed. I especially don't like people thinking I want to play with their dog. It's at times like that I'd love to have a pet cougar completely NOT de-fanged or de-clawed and say, "Here, let MY pet play with YOU!" I resent people who think I am entertainment for their pets or children. As far as I'm concerned, a person with an unleashed dog already doesn't care about the health and safety of his animal. Unleashed dogs kill native animals off the hiking trails here and the owners think it's funny. "Oh, look how Bounder is playing with that baby rabbit!" What utter BS!!!! :fire: My birds don't go around demanding total strangers play with them or biting strangers or crapping in someone else's yard. So what makes a dog owner think he has that right to force that on me? I won't second guess my observation on a dog I feel threatens me. I've seen bad dog bites and that's not happening to me. Owner gets one warning about his dog and that's it.

[Psssniper]

well ......I would have shot them all

You're more humane than I

[Sir Galahad]

"I say we drink the wine, eat the dogs, and use the papers for musket wadding!" "Eat the dogs?!" "Mmmm..a dog is a fine meal."

[brownie0486]

Jim,

Being a dog person I try to give them as much of a break as possible. I wasn't of the impression the dog wanted me, but it wanted my dog for sure. First and only thought was to protect my dog, my safety being second at that time to my baby.

The owner, well, he could have taken one much quicker if it wasn't against the law to kill *********s.

Know it was taking a chance not putting it down immediately and as well, letting the guy know I had a piece could have been messy if he had his own weapon [ gun ].

Took those risks without thinking much about it. Had a lot going on between controling mine, watching the other dog and keeping the owner in sight.

I suppose in the final analysis I was lucky in a few different ways. Luck has played a major part in my life, hope it never runs out.

Brownie

[JShirley]

Hm. Jumped a fence quick, fast, and in a hurry years ago, when it seemed a large dog was about to get rough with my 5 mo old American Eskimo. After I jumped the fence I realized it was a really large dog.

:D

John

[tex_n_cal]

part-time job in college delivering pizzas...the lady of the house invites me in, I put the pizza on the dining table, she pays me and tips me, I thank her, turn around and step on the front foot of a black Great Dane, who had silently walked up behind me.

Dog and I both jump backwards about 30 feet. Lady says it's okay, dog sheepishly walks up and allows her giant self to be petted.

It's rather startling turning and meeting a black Great Dane.:D

[dance varmint]

I carry OC religiously when biking, and I've used it mulitiple times on some rides with great effect. One day my 2 oz can ran out on me, so carry a reload. I have a 4 oz can attached with self-adhesive velcro to the top tube. I hope the dog owners take note as I ride by.