[mattk]

I am starting to believe that the answer to almost every thread started in Autoloaders can be answered with 3 letters

BHP.

[Ghost Tracker]

I'm a true High-Power believer, but there's gonna' be a bunch of 1911 fans who are ready to disagree. (* And they may be, uh, RIGHT!)

[coyotehitman]

I have always heard that the BHP was developed to remedy the shortcomings of the 1911. Whether or not that is true is a matter of opinion, though. I like the 1911, but the BHP is my favorite handgun. I find it to be the most ergonomic, best pointing, handgun manufactured. I would like to see a stainless steel 10mm or 45ACP BHP with similar handling characteristics and at least a 10 round capacity.

[dogtown tom]

FN/Browning was able to make a thin 13 round handgun in 1935.

Seventy three years later, Glock, Sig, Ruger, Beretta, HK and the rest haven't yet figured out how to make a slide that thin. Compared to a Hi Power everything else is FAT.

[Ghost Tracker]

coyotehitman,
I solved that issue with a custom .357 SIG (converted .40 S&W) BHP Mk III. It's not stainless but hits like a hammer. My favorite!

[FlyinBryan]

its a fine pistol no doubt.

one of the finest custom builds i have seen was a hp

it has ergos very similar to the 1911, which the experts say is perfect.

i wouldnt say its an improvement over the 1911, but a guy named Dieudonne Saive probably would.

he is the guy who actually finished the design after john browning fell over dead at work.

john browning actually wasnt too enthused with the design according to reports and had set the project aside and was actually working on the browning superposed shotgun when he died. this is hotly argued among his biographers, but this is actually what was reported by saive, who i think wanted a little more credit for the design than he recieved.


this is just all stuff ive read as a browning fan.

[10-Ring]

What ain't BHP can be solved G-L-O-C-K :neener:

[RonE]

I have always heard that the BHP was developed to remedy the shortcomings of the 1911. Whether or not that is true is a matter of opinion, though. I like the 1911, but the BHP is my favorite handgun. I find it to be the most ergonomic, best pointing, handgun manufactured. I would like to see a stainless steel 10mm or 45ACP BHP with similar handling characteristics and at least a 10 round capacity.

The BHP may have addressed the supposed problems of the 1911 but the .45acp seems to solve most of the problems of the 9mm except magazine capacity. I wish I still had the BHP I brought back from overseas.

[W.E.G.]

The BHP would be my carry gun if there were no Glocks.

[Schleprok62]

What ain't BHP can be solved G-L-O-C-K :barf:

I have handled about every glock (and fired a couple) available to me and I haven't found one that feels right - But I do like the BHP... I think the Pro-9 may be my next purchase. :rolleyes:

So much for that theory... :neener:

[springmom]

I carry a compact 1911, but my favorite gun for sheer beauty, accuracy, and class is my BHP. If I were built such that I could carry it concealed, I would, without a doubt.

My 1911 is a great gun, but the BHP is a great gun AND art.

Springmom

[telecaster1981]

I am starting to believe that the answer to almost every thread started in Autoloaders can be answered with 3 letters

BHP.

I wish that were the case! I thought the knee jerk answer to the threads in Autoloaders was "Get a Glock", followed closely by "Doesn't get any better than the 1911!"

I've handled lotsa Glocks and 1911s, and for me, the BHP is the CORRECT answer, on this or any other forum! :D

[LUPUS]

BHP is the only pistol which is comfortable for almost any kind of hand stature. It is absolutely the '' High Capacity Heaven '' for smaller hands.
It is the slimmest 9 mm service pistol with a high capacity magazine.
It is the easiest service size pistol to conceal.
If British SAS, IDF Sayerets and many elite units all over the world do not feel the 9x19 mm inadequate even in the FMJ format, there is no need to hesitate for the shooters who are competent enough in shot placement with the BHP.

[makarovnik]

High Powers are awesome. Especially with today's modern ammo choices.

Nice thing about the 1911 is all the different manufacturer's and all the cool aftermarket parts you can get for them.

[ugaarguy]

I love the ergos of the BHP. I don't like the Rube Goldberg-esque multi-linked trigger to sear engagement mechanism. From what I've read Browning and Saive had to work around Browning's patents that were held by other companies - namely Colt with the patents on the 1911. I'd really like to see a fusion of the two designs in the 9mm/40S&W/.357 SIG length family of cartridges to keep the magazine well front to back length down. I'd love to see someone apply 1911 lock work (including removable mainspring housings to serve as changeable backstraps) to the BHP.

[sm]

I am starting to believe that the answer to almost every thread started in Autoloaders can be answered with 3 letters
BHP

This ain't Burger King, you don't get it your way.

You get BHP, 1911s, Double Whopper with Cheese, Onion Rings and Regular Dr. Pepper.

Now step aside we got other customers in line.

*Grin*

[nwilliams]

I'm a HP fanatic, like the 1911 its a timeless piece of gun history and I wouldn't want a gun collection without at least one.

So I have two.....WW2 era Nazi proofed FN HP and a Custom BHP, both are great shooters but my custom HP is by far the most accurate handgun I own. It has had trigger work done to it and the mag disconnect has been removed. I'm not sure the actual poundage of the trigger but its far better than the trigger on any of my other guns including my 1911. Everyone who ever pulls the trigger on it gets this look of pure ecstasy on their face usually follow a "holy" something.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/nwilliams27/GermanWW2BrowningHP-4-small.jpg

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/nwilliams27/CustomHP3.jpg

[CZF]

That's funny. i could say those very thigs about my Cz75s, and CZ pistols in general.

Once mandated to carry a DA 9mm. I gave up hopes of the
P-35 and settled for the equally fabulous CZ75.

The CZ75 had bigger controls than the Browning back then, but
were not very popular.

I did enjoy the recent CSI Miami episode, where Horatio used a
shiny blued HP to take care of the bad guys!

[Tribal]

Okay, so maybe I'm just ignorant, but is there any reason why the fabled trigger system of the 1911 couldn't be put on a Hi-Power? Whatever patents were in place expired long ago. Is it just that a 1911 in 9mm is pretty much considered the same thing?

[volfandan]

CZF,

Right on! I was watching CSI the other night, and saw that Brazilian guy lay a gun down on the table. I was hoping Horatio would say, "hmm, Browning or FN?"

I have a FEG PJK-9HP, and it's one of the older true clones. Gotta love the HP's!

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x59/volfandan/PJK-9HP002.jpg

[1911Tuner]

I love the HP. I finally got around to buying one in the not too distant past, and the more I handle it, the more I like it. Though it won't replace my 1911s as my primary carry and range guns...if I had to grab one and run, I wouldn't feel at a disadvantage at all with the High-Power.

It's been said that Browning "corrected" the flaws in the 1911 with the High-Power...the grip safety and no link being the main two.

Bunk...

Browning didn't have free rein over the HP any more than he had over the 1911. There were many hands in both...and many ideas and requests for this or that feature. Like the 1911 and other Browning designs...John Moses gave what he was asked for. They were jobs...assignments to be completed. If the people who hired him to work on the P-35 had requested a grip safety...he'd have put a grip safety on it. If they hadn't specifically requested a linkless barrel...Browning would have put a link on it.

No. The Browning High-Power didn't always have an external extractor.

Finally...Browning died several years before the HP was completed, so there was a lot of influence over the final design that he had nothing to do with.

[10X]

The BHP is almost the best. The only thing better is a BHP without the mag disconnect and with a 26 lb. hammer spring rather than the factory 32 lb hammer spring.

Excellent quality, excellent design, reliable and accurate.

I still won't give up my Colt Gold Cups.

[belus]

The only thing better is a BHP without the mag disconnect and with a 26 lb. hammer spring rather than the factory 32 lb hammer spring.
... on a Mk II (no FPB) or with the sear lever spring moved behind the pivot point.

[buzz_knox]

I am starting to believe that the answer to almost every thread started in Autoloaders can be answered with 3 letters

BHP.


Followed by three words: Leaves me bloody.

I love the Browning. It doesn't love me (literally bites the hand that feeds it), and I haven't had an inclination to have a matchmaker (i.e. smith) make it love me.

[axeman_g]

BHPs are fantastic and usually need nothing done to them to function accurately right out of the box.

But a little tweak here... a little tweak there and you have the best, hicap 9mm sidearm in the world.

Plus they look good, carry some panache and dont break.

By the way, the Browning BDM is the slimmest hicap ever made.

[Texas Colt]

BHP... The oldest and best hi-cap pistol. I still love my 1911s the best and that is what I carry, but my BHP does get holster and range time as well. The ergonomics are great and the trigger on my BHP is just as good as my tuned 1911s now that the mag safety is gone and it has some C&S parts in it.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/redcolt/Guns/HiPowerTritium1.jpg

[buzz_knox]

The oldest and best hi-cap pistol.

I think the Mauser C96 (introduced in 1896) beats it by a few years.

[Cliff47]

MecGar is selling HP mags that hold 15 rounds, and fit flush.

Wonder if Horatio will start carrying a Hi-Power in place of his Beretta Cougar. Be nice to se another convert to the SA mode of handgun.

[Trebor]

or with the sear lever spring moved behind the pivot point.

Is that the mod that requires the extra hole in the slide?

I knew it involved something with the sear, but wasn't sure exactly what.

What is the practical effect of this mod? Just wondering if it's something I should consider. I already swapped out for a 26# spring and wouldn't mind an even better trigger.

[Shear_stress]

Is that the mod that requires the extra hole in the slide?


I always thought that the mod you're referring to was to relocate the fulcrum of the sear lever. Just a guess.

Anyway, I've got lots of love for the BHP.

[Marshall]

Actually, there's hardly ever a thread regarding a BHP that someone that owns a CZ doesn't put in their two cents about their CZ being better.

It comes across as an envy thing to me. Like they're reading all the positive BHP posts and it's just pizzing them off so they just have to post. Oh yea, oh yea, well my CZ is good too.

So, OK. Your CZ is a very good $400.00 gun. They're a great value. I really like them too for the money.

[belus]

What is the practical effect of this mod? Just wondering if it's something I should consider. I already swapped out for a 26# spring and wouldn't mind an even better trigger.
What I described does not require putting another hole in the slide. The pivot point stays the same. But you do lose the firing pin block safety.

There are three stages to the BHP trigger:
1st) you're working against the trigger return spring, then
2nd) the lifter contacts the sear lever, which on the MK III's is spring loaded to engage the firing pin block. After a little more travel you encounter the final and
3rd) stage where the sear level contacts and applies pressure to the sear. This third stage is where a lighter mainspring can lessen the trigger pull.

On a MK II there his no firing pin block and you don't need to fight that spring during stage 2.

There are a couple mods that you can do to lessen the travel and weight in these stages
1st stage
--purchase a wide trigger for more surface area
--extend or purchase a longer lifter so the trigger contacts the sear lever sooner (still can't be above the rails when the trigger is fully released though)
--I guess you could also lighten the trigger return spring, but I would rather have a more positive reset.

2nd stage
--remove or snip the spring under the sear lever to lower that resistance
--build up a little more material on the sear lever or sear itself to decrease the travel. I believe target sears are sold which have already had this done.

3rd stage
--reduced power main spring to lower the pressure on the sear from the hammer
--purchase the modified sear lever with a different pivot point to give you more leverage (requires a new hole in the slide)
--move the spring behind the pivot point of the sear lever. Now it's adding to the force on the sear. This may require some experimentation with spring weight, especially if you have a lighter main spring.

If you're going to put in a reduced power main spring, I strongly recommend upping the weight of your recoil spring to 18.5lbs and using a recoil buffer. The original weights are tuned for hard primers, and the gun partially relies on the strong main spring to slow the slide during recoil.

[Pilot]

My box stock 1994 Silver Chrome MK III Hi Power is my most accurate centerfire handgun. Its also one of the prettiest, except for that damn gold "pimp" trigger they all came with. :rolleyes:

I like the full spur hammer and it does NOT bite me and I have large but not fat hands. Some either bob the trigger spur a little or install a commander hammer to solve the hammer bite issue.

[coyotehitman]

I do not have a problem with the spur hammer either, but the round hammer of the practical will bite me if I am not watching my hand placement.

[tekarra]

BHPs and cZ 75s! I don't need anything else. Only need BHPs to be more available and less costly.

[jaydubya]

I bought my BHP in 1967 at the Marine Corps Recruit Depot in San Diego, with two spare magazines, $210 all told. I carried them on two flying cruises to Vietnam -- and have met many another flyer that did the same. Unlike most of them, I kept mine -- in my sock drawer, still loaded with military ball, for thirty years before becoming interested in shooting again. I have fired more than four thousand rounds of standard pressure fmj from it at my range. It is still in superb shape (springs routinely replaced). You can lose yourself in the almost perfect blueing.

On the other hand, I've really changed it. When the tiny "nickel" front sight fell out and I couldn't find it, I had to have the slide milled for a new one. So much for "collector value," so I went hog wild. It now wears a set of Crimson Trace laser grips and has Cylinder & Slide's SFS kit installed. If FN had come up with the SFS trigger arrangement fifteen years ago, they would still be king of the mountain.

At home, it is loaded with standard pressure Speer 124gr Gold Dots. I avoid +p loads because my BHP is forty-one years old. I plan to will it to one of my grandsons.

Cordially, Jack

[MM]

I like to carry this FN in a shoulder rig. It never fails to be a grin-o-matic at the range.
MM

[coyotehitman]

If FN had come up with the SFS trigger arrangement fifteen years ago, they would still be king of the mountain.

I have never tried the SFS system, but I have read about it and I think I understand its operation. Correct me if I am wrong, but if you were to take the SFS system off safe, causing the hammer to fall to the cocked position, then wish to place the weapon back on safe, you would have to again push the hammer down with your thumb and activate the safety.

If so, I find this very undesirable in a self defense pistol. If you had someone at gunpoint and wished to place the weapon back on safe or secure it in a holster, you would have to use some fine motor skills that you may not possess.

Am I way off on how the SFS system works or is this a flaw in the design?

[jungle]

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff249/jungle375/Picture775.jpg

[GuidoTorpedo]

I drank the BHP Kool-Aid last night. :)

Picked up my first!

[jaydubya]

Coyotehitman said: I have never tried the SFS system, but I have read about it and I think I understand its operation. Correct me if I am wrong, but if you were to take the SFS system off safe, causing the hammer to fall to the cocked position, then wish to place the weapon back on safe, you would have to again push the hammer down with your thumb and activate the safety.

If so, I find this very undesirable in a self defense pistol. If you had someone at gunpoint and wished to place the weapon back on safe or secure it in a holster, you would have to use some fine motor skills that you may not possess.

Am I way off on how the SFS system works or is this a flaw in the design?

I think you have it backward. Having loaded your SFS (BHP or 1911), you push the hammer against the slide. As you do so, the hammer control (which takes the place of the safety) clicks up -- just as it would if you were pushing the safety up to lock a standard Hi Power. When you draw, you do exactly the same thing you would with a 'cocked and locked' pistol: you push the safety/hammer control down as you bring the weapon to bear on your target. In either case, the weapon is ready to fire every round single action. There is another advantage to SFS: field stripping. All you have to do (assuming you have made sure it is not loaded) is cock the hammer by pushing the hammer control down, simply push/pull the slide release out the side, and ease the slide off forward. No more the necessity of locking the slide all the way back (in fact, you can't!) to get the slide release out. An SFS pistol is the easiest to field strip and reassemble that I know of.

I hope this answers your questions.
Cordially, Jack

[1911Tuner]

SFS...An answer in search of a question.

Tuner's dictum:

"The more gadgets it's got, the more Murphy it gets."

[BHPshooter]

I do not have a problem with the spur hammer either, but the round hammer of the practical will bite me if I am not watching my hand placement.

Me too. I love the looks of the rowel hammer, though. Someday I plan to have several of each. :evil:

I'm smitten by them, it's fair to say.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/549/HP_trio.jpg

This one's my carry piece.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/9288My_Novaks.jpg

Wes

[FlyinBryan]

even though john browning didnt get to finish it, you can sure tell its his.

[browningguy]

I agree, BHP, don't need anything else. Although I like Esmerelda grips better than the stock ones. Some people think I'm an addict.:confused:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jcm9371/Pistols/PracticalCocoboloGrips1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jcm9371/Pistols/bhpcelticcrossgrips2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jcm9371/Pistols/highpowerpractical.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jcm9371/Pistols/highpowercompetition.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jcm9371/Pistols/browninghp.jpg

[coyotehitman]

jaydubya, I think we are describing the SFS system the same way.

Where I get confused is once you have drawn and taken the gun off safe (hammer is now in the cocked position) and wish to place it back to safe without firing a round, do you have to push the hammer toward the slide again or can you simply flick the safety lever back to the up position?

[saemetric]

A pix is worth a thousand words! (HPs are great)

[Dienekes]

First shot one in 1960--a borrowed Canadian Inglis (when in Canada, shoot what the Canadians shoot). T'was a very, very primitive "commando match". Very cool for a kid off the prairies.

Finally got my own Inglis years later, and it has an FN MK III with Spegel delrins to keep it company. I really prefer the 1911 and the only reason I own any 9mms is because I like the BHP so much--but as noted, it will certainly do.

And do nicely.

[ravencon]

I am bemused by the respondents who find semi-auto perfection in a combo of the BHP and the Glock.

I like, really like, the BHP. It has wonderful ergonomics (among other virtues).
The Glocks have (IMO) terrible ergonomics. What they have going for them is utility and reliability. The Glock was a great innovative design. But there are now other polymers on the market that are superior to the Glock.

Sorry to hijack this thread for a moment but I couldn't resist.

[DawgFvr]

browningguy: Wow...love those celtic grips! Now that's a piece of art.

[jaydubya]

Coyote asked: Where I get confused is once you have drawn and taken the gun off safe (hammer is now in the cocked position) and wish to place it back to safe without firing a round, do you have to push the hammer toward the slide again or can you simply flick the safety lever back to the up position?

Ya stumped me with that question! I had always pushed the hammer against the slide, observing the hammer control sliding up as I did so. To find out if one can lower the hammer by pushing the hammer control up, I had to go get my BHP, unload it, and try it. Nope. The only way to lower the hammer is to push it against the slide. This also disengages the hammer from the main spring (which stays cocked) and -- I think -- blocks the firing pin. It is quite safe to do.

Cordially, Jack

[BHPshooter]

Some people think I'm an addict.

That's okay, BrowningGuy, you're not alone. ;)

Wes

[coyotehitman]

A pix is worth a thousand words! (HPs are great)

A .40 and a 9mm.

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9253/browninghpsuh0.jpg

[bhp9mm]

the bhp to me is the best 9mm ever made their is alot of good 9 like glock sig smith and wesson but the bhp was the first good one made i still think its better then todays new autos i like glock and sigs but the bhp stands alone it my not be better its just the first good 9 auto and still good