[sturgeon]

Hello all,
I just received a gift, a 1911 millitary issue in what looks to be unfired condition!:D It has 7 original mags, the original us holster, 1917 stamped on the back, and a two mag pouch from rock island, 1914 stamped on the back. I need links or any information that can help me research this gun. I have heard about inspector markings and so fourth, and would like to know what to look for and where I can look them up. I believe the original factory oil (forgot what this is called) was on the gun when I picked it up. I cleaned this off last night to put new oil on, to keep this gun in prestine shape. I hope this was not the wrong thing to do, all though it is to late now.:banghead:
I would like to find out about what this gun might be worth, although I have no intent on selling it.
I will post pics soon.
Any help at all will be appreciated!
Thanks
Sturgeon

[jetman]

I'd take a look around this website and see if anyone there can help you out, or maybe shoot them an e-mail. Good luck sounds like a find!

www.m1911.org

[Old Fuff]

If you will post the serial number (use "xx" for the last two numbers) I'll see what I can find you. No, I'm sure oiling it didn't hurt anything and may have helped. Don't throw away anything that came with the gun.

[sturgeon]

Thank you, the number is 195xxx

[sturgeon]

thanks jetman

vic vega, blued I think, I will post pics

[sturgeon]

don't know how to add muliple pics

[9x19]

Well,

I'm no expert but the slide, thumb and grip safety, MSH, trigger and hammer all appear to be the correct vintage for the frame.

[sturgeon]

holster

[sturgeon]

sorry about all the post, only way I know how to post pics

Mag pouch

[sturgeon]

mags

[sturgeon]

back of mag pouch

[sturgeon]

last one,
back of holster

All of this came from a family member, not something I just found out forsale somewhere.

[9x19]

The two tone mags are also the correct vintage, I believe, and are quite pricey these days all by themselves.

I would urge you to visit the 1911 Forum's USGI board.

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=30

[dsk]

Only one dark photo of the gun? More pics please, especially of the markings.

[sturgeon]

dsk, here are some more pics, sorry about them being dark, but it is 11 at night and I'm not good with a camera to begin with:)

horse

[sturgeon]

the inspector's stamp

[sturgeon]

patented

[sturgeon]

us army

[sturgeon]

dsk,
sorry these pics don't do the gun justice, it looks much different in person.

[PCRCCW]

I remember my grandfathers gun...this reminds me of it ALOT! I believe you have a very nice and rare find.........Congratulations.
Shoot well

[Longbow]

Its a rare gem! Keep it!

[sturgeon]

sorry vic, as stated I have no intention of selling this.
I would like to find someone in CT that really knows what to look at and can confirm that this is all original, but do not want to sell.
Thanks anyways.

[jsalcedo]

Nice gun.

I saw one just like Yours in about 50% condition. No finish, banged up no mag for $650 this is from a shop with reasonable prices.

Excellent gift. who gave it to you?

[Steven Mace]

Sturgeon, the serial number would indicate it was made by Colt in 1917. Very nice!!!

Steve Mace

[dsk]

Thanks sturgeon,

Those pics actually were quite good. Now, I cannot say this for sure without being able to actually hold the gun in my hands, but to be honest I think the pistol is a professionally-done refinish, possibly at Doug Turnbull's or Bill Adair's level. I say that because the Colt pony and inspection markings don't have a whole lot of raised metal around them, plus the finish looks just a little too "fresh". The truth is mere age and exposure to the atmosphere will eventually degrade a 1917-vintage pistol's finish. There are no visible scratches or other signs of handling anywhere. I have a 1917-vintage Colt that is about 95% remaining finish. Under strong light you can see where the finish is actually turning brown and developing minor rust specks underneath.

I agree that you should find a local collector to say for sure. I have the info for Karl Karash, who resides in Massachusetts and is about the most knowledgeable collector out there aside from Charles Clawson himself. Karl may even read the post you made in the 1911 Forum and reply.

[Old Fuff]

Well you have hit the jackpot ….

You have a near-mint Colt 1911 (U.S.) Government Model that was made in 1917 and shipped to the Springfield Arsenal in a shipment of 1,100 pistols on November 27, 1917. Generally all Colt pistols intended for the army were delivered to the Springfield Arsenal at this time except those that went to Brooklyn, NY to the Navy Yard for direct shipment to the war zone in Europe.

It was inspected by Major Gilbert H. Stewart, (His stamp is the one above the magazine release) who inspected Colt pistols (among others) between serial numbers 101,500 to 230,000 (approximate). Maj. Stewart was born in Kansas in 1878, graduated from West Point in 1902, and retired in 1942 as a Brig. General.

The accessories you have are correct for the gun and the time period it was issued. One seldom sees a complete outfit like this one in the condition it is in, and the whole set is worth several thousand dollars. Even so, I wouldn’t sell it either.

You will find other numerical or alphabetical stamps at different locations: around the disconector hole on the frame, above and under the firing pin stop, and on the barrel and top of the slide. Each will provide additional information.

Judging from you're photographs I think the gun's finish is original. Military pistols made during 1917 did not have a high polish because a war was on. Given the pistol's background I think it's unlikely to have been refinished. It looks to me like it was brought home from World War One and saw little or no use thereafter.

[dsk]

sturgeon,

Some of the other collectors in the 1911 Forum have already sounded off. They believe it may indeed be original finish, but agree that better photos are still needed. Try to get some good pics taken in daylight if you can.

[Kruzr]

1911 serial numbers:

http://www.gun.in.th/gun1911sn.htm

Frame and slide markings:

http://coolgunsite.com/pistols/Frame%20and%20Slide%20Markings.htm

Lots of info on dsk's website also.

:)

[sturgeon]

old fluff, thankyou for your research

dsk, I will indeed get some more pics today and post tonight. Is it ok to post more pics? don't want to take up alot of server space. you asked for pics of the markings, so I took some of those. I will take some pics of some very little wear that is on the right side of the gun, looks like it is from the bump that is in the inside of the holster where the brass notch is. The little wear is on the trigger gaurd, and a tiny spot on the slide, will post pics tonight. If I can not post them due to their size, can I email them to you?

[sturgeon]

serial number

[sturgeon]

right side

[sturgeon]

left side

[Johnny Guest]

I wouldn't sell it, either, unless my grandkids were hungry.

dsk, I respectfully disagree about the refinish. Obviously it is difficult to make an absolute, stand-up-in-court-and-swear evaluation on the basis of these images, and I agree with some of the factors you mention.

My reasoning:
The "serial number" image includes part of the right-side slide marking. I am struck with how the center of the two "O" letters appears to be slightly embossed, from the minor flow into the center of the die. (MODEL OF)
The "inspector's stamp" image. Looks to me as if it was applied after the piece was blued, which would be proper.

I'm certain enough that I'll start the bidding at $1,000. (Certainly, I openly recognize that, (1) sturgeon has said in no uncertain terms that it is not for sale, and (2) If OldFuff and I are correct, the piece is worth a LOT more than a grand!)

I've seen those cyanide hardened magazines go for $50+, each.

Best,
Johnny

[Jim K]

I am inclined to agree that the pistol is "too good", but oddly, I saw one just like it many years ago, long before the restorers got into the act. An elderly gentleman came in the shop and asked how much his old gun was worth. My eyeballs about fell out, because the "old gun" looked just like that. Brand new, and he had the holster, belt, and mag pouch, though he said he didn't keep the gun in the holster (thank God). His story, which I had no reason to disbelieve, was that he had been issued the gun, new, in early November, 1918, as he was about to go overseas. The armistice was signed, his overseas orders were cancelled, he was discharged, and in the hubub no one ever asked for the pistol back, so he simply kept it. I referred him to a collector in the area who I was sure would give him a fair price. I couldn't afford the gun myself and the store owner didn't want to deal with collector stuff, only modern guns.

So, pending a better look, I can only say, not impossible.

Jim

[Lt. G]

What a beautiful pistol!!!!! Good for you, keep that treasure in the family.
(by the way, I am housebroken and up for adoption,[grin] )

[sturgeon]

I brought this to a man that was reffered to me. He has over 30 years in dirrerent aspects of guns. He worked for colt for many of years, also for whincester. He is a collector of guns himself. After close inspection of this gun, he says it is an original piece, including the finish.
This gun came from people I know, The original owner that I know, was an officer, and a doctor in the medics, this is why the gun saw no use.
I am working on more of the history of the gun. I recieved an email that told me I can bring it to colt, and they can search their info, and give me a certificate of some sort. What do you think about this?
Thank you all again! I am very happy

[Old Fuff]

Colt will research their records and send you an "official" letter confirming whatever they find. However this service is expensive (in the $80 to $100 ball park) and most of the information they can give you, you already know. However the letter would be a nice thing to have.

For additional details go to: www.colt.com