[gunsmith]

get your barf bag ready,it's the new york times

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/11/opinion/11MON3.html?ex=1061179200&en=65b07eb82b39acb3&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE
The World's Deadliest Arms
he deadliest weapon in the world today is not a nuclear bomb or an infectious agent, but a machine gun. Small arms kill half a million people a year, picking off American soldiers in Iraq, turning Liberian thugs into powerful warlords and allowing 12-year-olds in eastern Congo to terrorize their neighbors. The ease of obtaining AK-47's helps turn grievances into wars.

Controlling small arms is complex. Guns are easily concealed, trading and retrading in a quasi-legal netherworld. Last month, countries met to examine their progress on pledges made at a United Nations conference on the small-arms trade in 2001. Most nations had done little or nothing. That is a mistake. Countries can take measures to make small arms harder to obtain for illegal groups and to catch and punish illegal traders.

Most illicit arms transfers begin as legal ones. Shipments get rerouted to a clandestine buyer, or guns are simply resold. That is how the Taliban and the rebels in Liberia ended up with American weapons. Often arms brokers are complicit. The United States requires American arms brokers worldwide and foreign nationals who live or work in the United States to get licenses for every arms deal, even one that does not touch American soil. This law should be replicated everywhere, but equally important, the United States should begin to enforce it.

Other needed changes would tighten requirements on arms exporters, which include America, most major European nations, China, Israel, Russia and several other former Communist countries. All nations should agree to international standards for bills of lading — at the moment easily falsified — and the marking of weapons. Most governments do mark weapons so their origin can be traced, but they do not do so in standard ways.

In addition, no nation should grant a company a license to export weapons until it can show that the recipient government has issued an import license. Exporting firms should also be required to show that they have ensured that the buyer truly exists.

The United States, which has the best laws of any major weapons exporter, could become a world leader on the issue simply by exhorting other countries to meet American standards. Instead, Bush administration officials have opposed international agreements that would tighten regulations worldwide, arguing, absurdly, that limiting small-arms traffic is a step toward violating the rights of American gun owners.


SO THE NY Times DON'T LIKE THE WAY BUSH IS
opposed to international agreements I SAY THANK GOD!! I DID NOT VOTE REPUB FOR HIM TO DO WHAT THE DANG U.N WANTS

[Kharn]

The ease of obtaining AK-47's helps turn grievances into wars.

The ease of obtaining AK-47's also helps turn tyrants into dead tyrants, or at least keeps them awake with fear every night. The NYT might as well change its name to Pravada and be done with it.

Kharn

[Standing Wolf]

I see the presstitutes of the New York Times have fired a fresh salvo against guns. Fortunately for the world, the presstitutes aren't armed with anything more dangerous than words.

[TheOtherOne]

One day we will have a peaceful world governed by the almighty and completely fair U.N.

Hallelujah.

[Stinger]

Fortunately for the world, the presstitutes aren't armed with anything more dangerous than words.

What's that they say about a pen and a sword?
Lies and deception are the deadliest weapons on Earth.
Some people will believe anything that is written in a newspaper.

Whatever happened to journalists actually reporting news, and not this driveling nonsense.

Stinger

[pittspilot]

And in the PRK, it is not at all easy to get an AK. :fire:

[Dave R]

Hmmm. Let me think this one through....

If all the AK's disappeared, tyrants in 3rd world countries would stop killing their subjects, and rival gangs would stop murdering each other?

Yeah, sure, I believe that. :rolleyes:

[jercamp45]

to suck, blow and swallow!!!!"
Sound like typical NY BS to me!!!

I hope I have not OFFENDED anyone with my nasty opinion!!

NYC: The US Constitution...Void Where Prohibited by Law!!!

So, when is California gonna outlaw them thar Assault Buicks? I see they are absolutely deadly in shopping malls!

Jercamp45

[Waitone]

Has the story been covered by a reputable newspaper?

[280PLUS]

somewhere some guy will pick up a rock and bop his neighbor in the head with it,,,

how ya gonna ban rocks?

:rolleyes:

[4v50 Gary]

The US exhort other nations to sell arms like we do? C'mon, get real. It's an industry that makes $$$. If some third world country can raise $$$ by selling their guns easier than selling wheat, wagons and wombats, they're going to sell guns. What a blissninny that author is.

[Art Eatman]

"This law should be replicated everywhere, but equally important, the United States should begin to enforce it."

Everywhere? We're indeed to be GloboRoboCop? The writer would have us do a house-to-house search of the whole world?

:barf:

Art

[Iain]

Art - think he is just suggesting that the US enforce it within it's own borders, and exhort others to do the same. Lead by example, as my own country should do on the arms trade issue.

You guys don't believe that the massive proliferation of small-arms around the world has anything to do with the casualties of the twentieth and twenty-first century?

I get the impression that there is a lot of anger against the NYT, so much that it obscures the actual issue at hand.

[seeker_two]

You guys don't believe that the massive proliferation of small-arms around the world has anything to do with the casualties of the twentieth and twenty-first century?

And how many died BEFORE the proliferation of small arms? A country such as yours with the history of the longbow, the crossbow, the broadsword, and the battle axe could answer that... :neener:

If disarmament is the answer, why didn't Britain disarm when it had conflict w/ France & Spain during the "Age of Discovery"?... :scrutiny:

[Iain]

I agree, but it is such a thorny issue, it doesn't really cost all that much to create your own private army with quite a bit of destructive potential and several large US and European firms will help you out.

[MicroBalrog]

You guys don't believe that the massive proliferation of small-arms around the world has anything to do with the casualties of the twentieth and twenty-first century?

I suggest you should read this article (http://www.davekopel.com/2A/Foreign/Brown-Journal-Kopel.pdf)

[Zedicus]

Only Suitable Comment I could think of on this article = http://www.etrenank.com/msc/smileys/puke.gif

[GinSlinger]

I agree, but it is such a thorny issue, it doesn't really cost all that much to create your own private army with quite a bit of destructive potential and several large US and European firms will help you out.

Greek Hopolites were self-funded (citizen soilders). Roman aristocracy raised their own armies and took them throughout Europe. Under fiefdom, peasants fought for their master with whatever farm implaments were available. The English longbow became soo popular simply because they were so cheap to producee and train. The aztecs enslaved others when at a stone age level (how much for that rock?). Aggresion has vener seemed to be hemmed by costs.

GinSlinger

[Futo Inu]

What Kharn said.

"That is how the Taliban and the rebels in Liberia ended up with American weapons" What?!? I thought they bought them at American gun shows. :confused:

[Pocket Pistol]

How soon stupid people forget.
What we need to outlaw is not guns but stupid people breeding.

Stupid people breed stupid people.

[MicroBalrog]

Small arms kill half a million people a year,

Actually, the real number of people killed by small arms per year is 250,000.

[Cosmoline]

This is another example of the tyrants and kleptocrats at the UN using their status to attack those who would oppose them back home. We should stay miles away from these efforts.

As far as small arms creating civil wars, this is no different than claiming guns cause any crime. The last time I checked, there aren't too many good, responsible governments in the third world being overthrown by AK-47 armed rebels. When thousands or millions of citizens are taking up arms against their government, there's usually a good reason. Disarming the civilians doesn't seem like a terribly bright idea

Unless, that is, you're the fat cat's representative at the UN
:rolleyes:

[Cosmoline]

"Actually, the real number of people killed by small arms per year is 250,000."

ACTUALLY, I would go a step further and observe that the real number is probably the few hundred or so killed by malfunctioning firearms. Small arms do not kill people. People kill people--sometimes for a darn good reason, sometimes not.

[MicroBalrog]

OK, the number of people killed WITH those weapons (as this is what the biased fools at NYT meant) is 250,000, not 500,000.

[Kharn]

The last time I checked, there aren't too many good, responsible governments in the third world being overthrown by AK-47 armed rebels.
I think all the crackpot despots saw Liberia's president being forced to resign and realized that they might be next. Good and responsible do not seem to be normal characteristics of 3rd world governments, its all a big game of CYA to them.

Kharn

[Cosmoline]

There are a few good governments in the third world, though they get little press. Costa Rica has long been fairly well governed, and (surprise surprise) has been far, far more peaceful than the basket cases around it. In Africa there are a few quiet, fairly well-governed republics here and there. Likewise in SE Asia. Look at the number of coups suffered by horriby-run Pakistan vs. the just poorly-run India. Would Sri Lanka have the Tigers to deal with if there hadn't been widespread abuse of the Tamils for so long by the central government? Would Indonesia have violent rebels if it hadn't spent decades under an oppressive dictatorship?

Nine times out of ten, governments get the opposition movements they deserve. If the opposition is a bunch of wild-eyed pistol waivers, chances are they're wild eyed for a reason.

[telomerase]

>Good and responsible do not seem to be normal characteristics of 3rd world governments, its all a big game of CYA to them.

Absolutely true Kharn... although America's Aid To Dependent Dictators program might have just a little to do with this situation:

http://freedom.orlingrabbe.com/lfetimes/dependent_dictators.htm