[atek3]

Please don't flame me.

I'm only passing along what I heard.

Several people I was talking to this weekend were pooh poohing chuck taylor saying that "He never served in vietnam, never was a ranger" and all that kinda stuff. Any truth to those allegations? Any substantiation on either side?

thanks,
atek3

[Pilgrim]

Are they willing to say that to his face?

Pilgrim

[Zip06]

Do a search on a couple of gun boards. People have opinions about him but no one argues that he hasn't been around the block a couple of times.

[atek3]

One did, said Chuck Taylor threatened to kick his bum. Same dude told Gabe Suarez he is a cheat and a fraud, Gabe offered to take it outside.

atek3

[ElToro]

Chuck Taylor.. didnt he just ressign as presidente of liberia ? or is he the guy on the basketball shoes :P

i dont think G&A, Handguns would have run his articles all these years if he wasnt legit.. same with Ayoob & Leroy Thompson et. al.

[jercamp45]

SOF magazine would not have hired him, nor would have Col. Cooper!
He is not a flashy, 'high speed, low drag' kinda guy...firmly into the basics which invariably lead to the advanced!!
People forget the basic's and go for high volume, flash, bang and sizzle!
Naw, he is 'for real'.
Met him Alooooong time ago(doubt he remembers me, but I got to play with my first MAC-10 with Sionics Suppressor) at the OLD SOF building in 1978 and he was at Gunsite when I was there the first time, but not the second!!!
Jercamp45

[El Tejon]

atek, how would these people know? Just GSCs?:confused:

[Gabe Suarez]

Gents,

I personally know Chuck, and although I don't teach with him any longer, and even have some disagreement in terms of techniques and methodology, I can say that he is everything he says he is. If I were going to a gunfight today and had a list of guys to take with me, CT would be on the top of the list.

As far as the #@*^s (rhymes with sissies) on the internet who make statements annonymously from a distance, I second the motion to do a face-to-face. me thinks they'd be much more polite in such a situation.

[Norm357]

Gabe, silly question but you name is familer. Are you an auther?


Norm

[Gabe Suarez]

Yep. I do a little teaching as well.

[El Tejon]

:D

[atek3]

:) is right

[Norm357]

What? Was it something I said?


Norm

[Norm357]

DUH!!! Never mind I just did a google.:banghead:


Norm

[Soap]

Gabe,

El Tejon let me borrow you book series. They are phenominal for starting shooters into more advanced techniques as well as reminding us all of the basics. Thanks for writing them.

[Gabe Suarez]

Thanks Daniel.

[telomerase]

>I personally know Chuck, and although I don't teach with him any longer, and even have some disagreement in terms of techniques and methodology, I can say that he is everything he says he is.

I'm not surprised to hear that. I've never really doubted that Taylor, Cooper, etc. had lots of combat experience... which in my view doesn't excuse them from learning high school physics. People who mix up momentum, power, and energy are not helping the novice to understand firearms. (On the other hand, I'm sure my knowledge of high school physics doesn't make up for my lack of shooting training, in their view.... or mine).

[Sven]

atek3: you and I were at the same course - did you not believe the things Chuck told us, or what?

[atek3]

I believed it all, pretty much. Am I gullible, maybe. I don't know, thats why I wanted to get outside confirmation.

atek3

[C. H. Luke]

"Several people I was talking to this weekend were pooh poohing......."

I know Chuck well. Your acquaintances are Ignorant........

Chuck is from a long-line Military family and did two tours in 'Nam
{That means Combat tours} as a Special Forces Officer and was awarded the Bronze Star. He still carries a bullet in his chest and in case you didn't notice shoots with one hand and writes with the other. There's a reason for this! He's had standing contracts with more than a few of the 3 letter Govt.
Agency's for over 20 years and was in Afghanistan last year teaching his long-range {900+ meters} rifle techniques to some US Forces.
Chuck has done an enormous amount to further the development of handgun, rifle techniques {and all small arms} as true Martial Arts and deserves the utmost respect of the well-informed in our Shooting Community.

[atek3]

Thanks for that post, it really bothers me though that another gun instructor would single chuck out and claim that "he's never been to vietnam at all"

atek3

[Sven]

atek3: I guess it comes down to, "what are your friend's qualifications and sources".

[Sean Smith]

Anybody who gets even microscopic exposure on the internet (let alone magazine articles, etc.) is eventually going to get bashed by random mutant a-holes. Heck, it happened to me a couple of times, and I've just got a for-fun and fairly un-controversial web site I slapped together when I was in Macedonia. :scrutiny:

[C. H. Luke]

"...it really bothers me though that another gun instructor would..."

Atek,

Being a "Gun Instructor" does not immediately award one credibility.

Those kind of comments are usually fuelled by Ego &/or resentment in my experience. Chuck's Military Service is easily authenticated as a friend and long-time Shooter/Instructor who also knows and runs Chuck's courses here locally has reminded me.

What counts is Reputation & wide-based long experience.

[Skunkabilly]

I was at the same class with Atek3 and in defense of the instructor, this is what I remember:

1. Gun instructor was saying that some other instructor (not Chuck Taylor) was never former LAPD like some background had indicated.
2. Another student said that Chuck Taylor had never BTDT, but it didn't seem like gun instructor knew much about Chuck Taylor and I don't remember him dissing him.

So don't all jump on the other instructor so fast, just because he was listening to another guy spew trash about Chuck Taylor, doesn't mean he was dissing him. But I could have misheard/misunderstood or just plain wasn't listening, or maybe because I have hard wax I missed something.

OK I'm going back to playing with guns now.

[Gabe Suarez]

You know guys, there are many sissies ( a nice way to say another word that rhymes with "sissy") that travel the internet bad mouthing good folks when there is no physical penalty for doing so.

Sometimes, these people are instructors who are trying to break into the business, or existing instructors who have not evolved beyond Civil war CQB and are now losing clients to more adaptable trainers. They'd be better served by getting into another line of work and leaving everyone else alone.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: Often times, these are marginal instructors and marginal shooters with delusions of adequacy who can do nothing but use profanity in their classes, as they abuse their students, all the while announcing to everyone that they (the instructor) was/is associated with some self-perceived "elite" metropolitan police organization or super secret ninja death touch spec-ops group.

These people cannot make it on their own value or skills and thus must succeed by trying to make others fail. I personally know several pumpkin boy instructors who have not only bad-mouthed Chuck (and me as well), but have actually tried to sabotage our respective training courses. It makes one long for the days of old when such things could be quickly solved.

Rule of thumb - A pro worries about his own business and not that of the next guy. If asked about another trainer, and if he has nothing good to say, will answer, "I have nothing to say". That's a pro. Loose lipped pumpkin boys who spend their days back biting, and bad mouthing are probably crappy instructors that have nothing else to impart. Give them your money at your peril.

Folks like this are best avoided....regardless of who they are, what "elite" group they work with, or what they claim to have done. If you run accross another trainer saying something bad about one of his colleagues, ask him if he would say that if the focus of his attack was standing right there in his face?

Cheers,

[duckfoot]

Amen, Gabe!

[tetleyb]

Ok, wait a minute here guys. I was also (I believe) at the class with Skunkabilly and Atek3(sp); both are not telling things the way they went.

The instructor in this course was/is a very QUALIFIED firearms instructor and a person who has been involved in numerous VERIFIED shootings (not some instructor who CLAIMS to have been involved in NUMEROUS shootings).

The instructor said, "We were training when Chuck Taylor came to watch us. He watched us train for 15 minutes and then claimed he had trained LAPD SWAT. He had never trained LAPD SWAT."

The next day another member of LAPD SWAT asked Chuck Taylor, "Can I see a copy of your DD214?" Chuck Taylor agreed to bring in the DD214 (for those of you who do not know, that is your discharge papers from the military, which show your dates of service, medals, etc). The next day, Chuck Taylor brought in a brand new Glock handgun and gave it to this officer. He never brought in the DD214. This lead all of those persons to believe Chuck Taylor's "exploits" were false and/or misleading.

I have trained under Chuck Taylor also. And although Jeff Cooper may have hired him, it doesn't mean Cooper was right. Cooper has made many mistakes and has hired many persons, he shouldn't have. At the sametime, it is strange to me, if Chuck Taylor had lied and/or embellished about his qualifications, it would have come out before now.

Now, this same firearms instructor made claims that certain firearms instructors, some of which have replied on this thread, had lied and said they were a prior member of LAPD SWAT. And when confronted, this particular firearm instructor said, "Well it was a misprint. It was taken out of context." This particular firearms instructor was and is a liar and a criminal (spending time in jail and committing perjury). This same firearms instructor (the criminal) had embellished his record on the number of shootings he had been in (by saying dogs he had shot, were suspect shootings). This firearms instructor quit his department, in leiu of termination, spent a year in county jail for grand theft, workers compensation fraud, and embezzlement.

I am unsure about the claims against Chuck Taylor. As of now, my investigations have not revealed anything. As to the other firearms "guru," I do know the truth and this particular person is unethical, a disgrace to the profession of law enforcement, and should not be training people on how to shoot guns.

"To remain silent, when they should protest, makes cowards of men."
Thomas Jefferson

[Gabe Suarez]

Gentlemen,

Let me tell you about our friend Mr. Tetley Bitters. He is one of those Internet Stalkers. He has been Stalking Mr. Taylor and myself for sometime. He's tried to sabotage not only my courses but Taylor's as well. As you see, we have a terrorist who attacks annonymously and cowardly. He is one of the sissies we spoke of in the earlier post. You'll notice that he is new to the board and only posts in the same threads that I do. There are a couple of others like him....perhaps he is the same man with several email accounts.

Here is an email he sent to my personal email account after he was evicted from glocktalk -

"Mr Suarez,

I will say this, you won this particular battle (on Glocktalk), however I shall win the war. You see, I know more about you then you know about me. You assume I am someone I am not. Lets see what I know about you.

You pled no contest to grand theft, embezzlement, workmanscomp fraud, etc. You were sentenced to 365 days in LA County Jail (no BS about time off for good behavior, doesn't matter here, you were sentenced to that amount of time). Your plea bargain, dropped the two counts of perjury (a felony), you were and are GUILTY of. Agreeing to pay back the $116,000.00 you bilked the tax payers of this state, is the ONLY reason you do not have a felony conviction, thus allowing you to still touch a gun. I know this plea agreement was NOT made by the district attorney's office, however was made by you and your attorney. The district attorney agreed to this plea bargain, to get the money returned, and to allow you to still work teaching firearms.

The ONLY thing you did honorable in this entire transaction, is agree to this plea bargain, so your wife would only receive one day in county jail. Yes, I know you continued to teach firearms, while receiving workers comp, and had the checks made out to a fictitious plumbing company, your wife (along with you) made up. Thus making money in a scam, while collecting tax free money.

I also know the following:

1. You said you were a member of Los Angeles Police Department's SWAT Team, in PRINT. And when confronted you said, "It was a mistake. A misprint." Uh-huh...You still say you are a "retired" member of a Southern California Police Department. You lead people to believe you were a member of LAPD Swat, when you are not. Not to mention, you quit Santa Monica PD, instead of being fired, for theft, embezzlement, etc.

2. You say you have been involved in NUMEROUS gun battles while a police officer. The fact is, your a LIAR. You have not. You have been involved in, MAYBE two. Both of which were HIGHLY QUESTIONABLE at that. The other gunfights you say you were involved in were shooting dogs.

Its amazing how much information is available out there to people, isn't it?

Of course, in an open forum, such as Glocktalk, you would never answer these questions and comments put to you. You would pull a typical lawyer trick and misdirect the readers, by attacking me. By saying I am a "troll" and "sissy," etc. I am neither and you know it. I am actually your worse nightmare. A person who is not afraid of a liar, who has no honor.

Your going to have your lawyer contact me? Good luck, you don't know who I am. And if he does. Good. SUE ME. Lets get his ENTIRE thing in open court so your beloving fans, who bow to you like a demi-god, could see the truth. I DARE YOU to sue me. PLEASE DO SO.

Do I have personal problem with you? Nope. Don't even know you. I have a personal problem with you running around teaching civilians and police officers tactics and how to shoot. When they blow someone's brains out, will you be there to testify on their behalf? I think not. Yeah, sure Mr Suarez, get on the stand, under oath (once again), and say you taught them XYZ. Your testimony as a CONFIRMED LIAR, wouldn't be worth the paper its written on. You know it and I know it. You just can't give some BS funny story about being "politically incorrect" to get your way out of it. In fact, I don't think you have the balls to testify in such a case.

Your "the real deal." Uh-huh again. If your such the real deal with such tactical knowledge and such a studly SWAT team member, why is it NTOA, CTOA, etc, etc don't have you teaching at their seminars? Why don't you write, anymore, for major gun magazines, PORAC, etc? The only teaching you can do is some ignorant civilians and, unfortunately, ignorant police officers. You teach two day weekend classes, at below the market rate, in order to make volume money.

It is unfortunate that the general public doesn't know about you. However, they shall. And, Mr Suarez, I am QUITE aware about the claims you made to certain members of the training staff at Gunsite. They were also interviewed by your former police departments IA staff and THEY told the truth (unlike you).

Every single morning Mr Suarez, you will wake up knowing there are people like me, telling the truth. I will continue to tell the truth about you, wherever I can. Your dishonorable, a liar, a CRIMINAL (what does your probation officer think), and you have dishonored a profession I have worked hard to make better.

Go, be a plumber, an electrician, or something else. You should not, however, be a firearms trainer. Your the coward here Mr Suarez. Unfortunately, you have buffaloed persons in Glocktalk, in order to get me banned. So be it. I will win in the end. The TRUTH always wins in the end.

A police officer for the truth...

PS. Why don't I reveal my name? Because, I believe your mentally unbalanced and my families life is worth more then you.

Of course, if you would like, I would be more then happy to meet you, one on one, with no guns, knives, etc and discuss this like two men."

That's it - unedited in its entirety. Mr. Bitter never took me up on the offer to discuss anything (as expected.

***
Now to his comments here.


Tetley - "Ok, wait a minute here guys. I was also (I believe) at the class with Skunkabilly and Atek3(sp); both are not telling things the way they went."


Me - Hmm, was this a class at....Angeles range....with an LAPD trainer....named...Scot Reitz????

Tetley - "The instructor said, "We were training when Chuck Taylor came to watch us. He watched us train for 15 minutes and then claimed he had trained LAPD SWAT. He had never trained LAPD SWAT."

The next day another member of LAPD SWAT asked Chuck Taylor, "Can I see a copy of your DD214?" Chuck Taylor agreed to bring in the DD214 (for those of you who do not know, that is your discharge papers from the military, which show your dates of service, medals, etc). The next day, Chuck Taylor brought in a brand new Glock handgun and gave it to this officer. He never brought in the DD214. This lead all of those persons to believe Chuck Taylor's "exploits" were false and/or misleading."

Me - I don't know whether CT ever said this or not. One of the trainers who I taught with under CT at Front Sight is Marc Fleischmann. He is connected with Scott Reitz (also of LAPD) in that they both train LAPD officers. Marc is not and never has been LAPD SWAT.

Scott is known to be ...shall we say...a bit talkative, and related this story to Fleischmann who braced Chuck during a brief break at a Front Sight class. I was there as I had concerns over hearing this as well. Chuck was astounded that such things were being said (again, the jealousy factor). He thanked Marc for telling him about it. The next week, Chuck brought in his discharge papers and several other documents to prove what he was and did. It was enough for me. Later, a few months after the day in question, Chuck gave Marc a Glock 17, that I later got in a trade...I'm carrying that gun today as a matter of fact.

CT has trained lots of people, in lots of places, some of whom would surprise you. To attack his creds is stupid.

More from the troll: "Now, this same firearms instructor made claims that certain firearms instructors, some of which have replied on this thread, had lied and said they were a prior member of LAPD SWAT. And when confronted, this particular firearm instructor said, "Well it was a misprint. It was taken out of context." This particular firearms instructor was and is a liar and a criminal (spending time in jail and committing perjury). This same firearms instructor (the criminal) had embellished his record on the number of shootings he had been in (by saying dogs he had shot, were suspect shootings). This firearms instructor quit his department, in leiu of termination, spent a year in county jail for grand theft, workers compensation fraud, and embezzlement."


Me - Now he's talking about me (in case you didn't know). I don't know where this LAPD SWAT stuff came about...I don't think I've ever even met anyone from LAPD SWAT. As far as being confronted about it, the ONLY conversation I've ever had with Mr. Reitz...if this is the nameless firearms instructor tetley talks about, was at a POST Law Enforcement Firearms Trainers Symposium in Sand Diego in 1998 where Rex Applegate was to give a talk on point shooting (Mr. Applegate died that weekend).

Reitz came up to me and told me that "John" (name witheld due to sensitive assignment) had told him I was legit and that I'd done everything I was supposed to have done. Scott came over and said I was "ok" in his book whatever that meant) and then later used my name during a speach he gave illustrating officers (himself, "John", "Marc", "Larry" and I) who had in fact used their sights in combat. Hmmmm.

As far as to my creds and Chuck's creds, what do we need to do here, publish the names and udai-kusai-type photos of our adversaries on the web? Hardly. I think our students can speak for that. Unlike some other schools, our classes are full and we have more requests for training than can be filled. CT has overseas contracts going on that could keep him out-of-country for years, and I am opening new academies in Costa Rica and Spain. Look at my sched. In fact, I am requesting resumes from instructors of another school (who will probably be posting nasties about me too). Yep, I think our students and work load speak louder than tetleyb.

More trollisms: "I am unsure about the claims against Chuck Taylor. As of now, my investigations have not revealed anything. As to the other firearms "guru," I do know the truth and this particular person is unethical, a disgrace to the profession of law enforcement, and should not be training people on how to shoot guns."

Me -Ahhh. That's me he's talking about again, in case you didn't catch it. What are we to do with guys like this? I have nothing to hide, nor does CT. High Road moderators, its in your hands.

So, there we have it.

[Betty]

Let me be absolutely clear here.

Whatever issues we have with other members elsewhere will be kept elsewhere.

We will conduct ourselves according to the Rules of Conduct that we agreed to when signing up here.

We do not call other members names.

We will stick to the topic.

[Skunkabilly]

I was also (I believe) at the class with Skunkabilly and Atek3(sp); both are not telling things the way they went.

Like I said, I wasn't listening and have hard wax :p

[Gabe Suarez]

Jackie,

I've taught in Central America, Spain, Italy, and South Africa....and it was very lucrative. I am planning trips to SE Asia as well. According to State Dept. we are on good terms with all of these guys. Are any of these guys hostile to us?


Gents,

I think only one post was Off Topic was it not?

As Teddy Roosevelt said (in essence) - The Credit Belongs To The Man In The Arena.

Chuck's website is http://www.chucktaylorasaa.com
His personal email is chuck@northlink.com

Any inquiries, grow some testosterone production equipment and contact him personally. Same goes for me.

[Matt G]

This thread is currently closed pending Staff decision on what to do with it.

--Matt.