[P95Carry]

This has been touched on, both directly and obliquely ......... but whenever I ''school'' someone in the four rules .. i wonder if it really sticks. It must of course, they are too important but ... what is your best ''demonstration'' ... to sorta ''prove a point''???

I think the gallon jug of water is useful .. maybe also a water melon ........but I am always seeking the simplest and most impactful method (no pun intended!). I am determined that my ''pupil'' will be suitably ''horrified'' such that he/she does NOT forget those rules.

Ideas please? ..... Employing simple and repeatable methods.

[Hardtarget]

We were shooting at my parents farm with my sons when my Brother-in-law gave them a good example of how powerful a gun shot could be. He chose a tree limb hanging low, ang told both to try and break or tear the limb. Neither could do any damage...hardly even scuffed the bark. Then he used a 20 ga. to blow the limb in two. I think they fully appriecated the need for the four rules. At this time both had taken the hunter safty course as well as enduring our re-enforcement of those lessons. Must have stuck...they're 26 and 28 yrs old and still walking around, thank God. I think thats the only "look what could happen if you are careless and unsafe" lesson they ever had...but not exactly repeatable as we were on a farm/private range location.
Mark.

[Moparmike]

I know the rules, but I still have a hard time with my "trigger finger". Just something to be worked on.

[swingset]

Short of the pain/reflex example of, say, shooting them in the foot for effect you will have to rely on their darwinian sense of survival and common sense.

I was never taught any "Four Rules", and I didn't need to be - they are completely self-evident. Once I knew what they were, I said to myself "Well, that's good cause that's what I've been doing".

[El Tejon]

Poster board from Kinko's. I have one in my armoury.

Do a search on TFL. I wrote a poem about them.

[TearsOfRage]

I've always liked the phrase "no matter how hard you say you're sorry it won't bring the bullet back".

[Jake]

I always like to take new shooters to the indoor range by my place and show them all the holes in the walls and ceiling and floor.........

[Deepdiver]

You can always make sure that you have several pupils in your school....


......and then shoot the one you like the least!:evil:

...makes one hellova impression on the rest of the class!:what:

Seriously, though, some real life pictures of gun shot wounds seem to work real well.

[cordex]

As I recall, Atticus had a frighteningly effective method.

[Drjones]

I was pondering this the other day;

Is there anything wrong with teaching a newbie that the trigger is "bad" in order to drill it into them to ALWAYS keep their finger off, and to immediately take their finger off when done firing?

[Hkmp5sd]

I know the rules, but I still have a hard time with my "trigger finger". Just something to be worked on.

A good reinforcement for this is to create some "punishment" for yourself when you catch yourself with your finger on the trigger. Some suggestions are to take $100 from the stash you are compiling for another gun and donate it to charity, skip watching your favorite sports event on the next weekend, wash your wife's car or do all of the laundry and house cleaning for a week.

Takes a little self-discipline, but you will learn to keep your finger off the trigger fairly rapidly.

[El Tejon]

Drjones, yes, there is. What trainers often do is create a reference point for the index finger. This is often done with skateboard tape.

"Hey, my finger hurts."
"You're doing it right then!"

Rule #3, the Golden Rule, is the most critical rule of them all as in some scenarios, counter-ambush, team tactics, et al, a #2 violation cannot be avoided. Train hard, mopar!!!

[gunsmith]

IT'S FIVE MILES TO THE MESS HALL,YOU WILL CRAWL THERE!

worked real well for me

[Bowlcut]

On a way to punish yourself....do like my friend did to stop cursing, the dollar in the jar didnt help. keep a semi loose rubber band around your wrist. every time you catch yourself, give yourself a good thwack with the rubber band pulling it way back. you will soon stop, that is if you have any self control and discipline to do such things to yourself

[Atticus]

My reminder.

http://www.imagestation.com/mypictures/inbox/view.html?id=4217861533&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.imagestation.com%2Fpicture%2Fsraid73%2Fpfc0a8690e5cc57d931195ed430b90d64%2Ffb67759d.jpg&caption=atticus%204%20rules

[P95Carry]

Atticus .. is that your missing digit??!!:eek:

[Atticus]

To paraphrase C.R.Sam....yup. Broke three rules, lost one finger...hell of a deal.

[Bowlcut]

:what:

whoa crap. yea that would make ya think

[berettaman]

My father taught me many years ago about fingers on the trigger when they are not supposed to be there.A sore finger and no shooting for a month.It really sucked during hunting season either not having a gun to shoot or shooting a gun with a sore finger.:D

P.S.
People at work laugh as I walk by with a drill in my hand and my index finger straight along the side.:evil:

[Weimadog]

Repetition.

Every time I violate one of the rules, I do the same thing ten times correctly. It feels a little silly picking up a gun and putting it down ten times, but that's o.k.

This is best for the "finger off the trigger" rule, which in my humble opinion is the most important one. It's the one that can be learned by muscle memory, and you will likely keep you finger off the trigger once you are in the habit.

Weimadog

[Moparmike]

HK, if I had a gun fund I might be able to do that. Right now, its hard enough getting a "food and gas" fund while living at my dad's. 75% of my monthly income goes to keeping my car on the road legally. (I am not saying this for a pity party, just that monetary punishments arent feasable.) And, no wife. No g/f. (That was a pity party, incase you are wondering.):(

I dont handle the gun enough to get the practice I really want. There is no where around here to shoot, especially with turkish steel-cored milsurp. New ammo is $25 a box, and that is pretty damned prohibative for me.

[Glamdring]

I normally start new people with the rules. They have to learn them by heart before they get to live fire. And there is at least some dryfire before they get to live fire.

Usually the first time they try to shoot they realize it isn't like the movies (you have to AIM that thing?). The brighter ones realize that during dryfire, they have trouble keeping proper sight alignment even with no recoil.

[Leatherneck]

I like Bowlcut's rubber band method: simple and cheap, and probably pretty effective negative reinforcement. Maybe post Atticus's pic where you shoot/train?

TC
TFL Survivor

[Atticus]

BE CONCIOUS EVERYTIME AND EVERYWHERE - NOT JUST AT THE RANGE

My brainfade occured while I was putting my new Glock away for the night -after about a half-hour of dry fire practice. Some of the factors contributing to my ND included: fatigue, inattention, lack of familiarity with the weapon, and muscle memory gone wrong. When you dry fire- keep the mags/ammo somewhere far out of reach. Dry firing can be pretty mundane and somewhat hypnotic. When your finished- TELL yourself, "I'm done!!!" - Take appropriate steps at that point to conclude the practice session.

[Hillman]

I try to use positive reinforcement with my boys. They know the rules by heart, but reinforce their behavior with positive comments. They see me check my gun EVERY time I pick it up even if it was empty 30 seconds ago. It leaves my hands, I check it again when I pick it up.

I'll also point out to them others who are following the rules. "See - notice where his finger is?".

Perhaps though, what really drilled it home: I had them stand at my side (with proper eye and ear protection) while I fired 5 shots of 357 magnums through my snub nose 357. They still comment on the noise and the fire.

[Drjones]

Drjones, yes, there is. What trainers often do is create a reference point for the index finger. This is often done with skateboard tape.

"Hey, my finger hurts."
"You're doing it right then!"

Rule #3, the Golden Rule, is the most critical rule of them all as in some scenarios, counter-ambush, team tactics, et al, a #2 violation cannot be avoided. Train hard, mopar!!!

Your reply confuses me.

There IS something wrong with teaching a newbie that the trigger is "bad"?

And the scenario you describe doesn't make sense; inflicting pain when it is being done right? :scrutiny: :confused:

[Hkmp5sd]

I dont handle the gun enough to get the practice I really want.
In that case, get more handling experience. If it is safe to do so with a real handgun, carry it around the house in your hand while home. When you get up to go to the fridge, tote the gun. Bathroom, bedroom, back to living room, carry the gun in your hand. You can even get in some dry firing practice while watching TV. If it is not practical with a real handgun, buy an airsoft, bb gun or even water pistol.

After a while, it becomes second nature.

[S_O_Laban]

P95CARRY, I don't know if this helps but I'll relate this as it left quite an impresion on me at the time.

School assy in sixth grade. Jackson county sherrif depty. there for a general talk. He takes out his service revolver (357 s&w) opens the cylinder and turns the gun so all of the rounds drop out on the floor. Next he asks " okay, how many of you think this gun is not loaded? We had all seen him unload it, so my hand is in the air with about everybody elses. Well guess what, that's right turns out there was one round left in that gun. When unloading he had left his thumb over one of the rounds, dropped the others then quickly swung the cylinder back closed. It sure looked like he had unloaded that gun! and boy was I suprised when he showed us the round in that "unloaded gun":eek: This object lesson in checking every gun your self, no matter what, has really stayed with me. Just thought I would share...

[G. Glock]

Are we talking about Atticus Finch here, from I]To Kill a Mockingbird[/I] ? I recall his shooting a rabid dog, but I don't recall any firearms safety lessons he teaches in the novel.

[P95Carry]

S_O_Laban .........

Thx for your anecdote ... in fact that would (and should) have been a salutary demonstration for everyone that day!! Somewhat highlights the total need to ''never assume'' ..... apart that is from ''assume always loaded''!

I guess in my opening post I was thinking more of ''mechanical'' shock tactics but .. I am all for any means to make the rules stick in people's minds. Never know ... it might just prevent a tragedy or two.

[DHH]

I was wondering if any one else has this problem.
I handle semi-autos correctly almost by reflex but have
to watch myself with revolvers.


DH

[stevelyn]

Getting my forward assist slapped a few times to get my brain back into battery did the trick for me.:evil:

[papaone]

Being new to the forum, PLEASE let me know what the "four rules" are.

Thanks so much,
papaone:confused: :confused:

[Moparmike]

1. The gun is loaded until you verify it is otherwise (no mag, no round in chamber[s], nada), as soon as you put it down it is loaded again. Repeat as necessary.
2. Dont point your gun at anything you dont want shot and destroyed.
3. Know your target and what is behind it, around it, etc. (ricochets, etc)
4. Dont put your finger on the trigger until ready to shoot. Period. (I have trouble with this one, as I am new to firearms. Unloaded ones get me more than I would like to admit. Its a newbie thing, it happens. Just dont let it happen with unintended consequences. Anyone who tells you that they havent done it is lying thru their teeth [or tooth...].)

[papaone]

Thanks for the response.

papaone:)

[El Tejon]

Pa,

1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never point the muzzle at anything you do want want to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on target and you are willing to shoot.
4. Identify your target and what is behind it.

Rule #3 is the "Golden Rule."

Drjones, yes, there is something very, very wrong with teaching a newbie that his finger belongs on the trigger like some movie poster! The skateboard tape is for indexing the trigger finger. It will hurt at the end of the day.

[MeanBone]

I tried everything I knew with my son when he was small. He would do well for awhile then slip up with Rule #2.

Finally, I thought about the money his grand daddy was always giving him to buy toys. I informed him that everytime I saw the muzzle in an unsafe direction it would cost him $5. $15 later he was cured! To this day he is absolutely one of the safest people I know around a firearm.

One of the rewarding things afterward was when he would see an adult at the range break a rule and he would look at me and role his eyes!

He's now 26 and a helicopter flight paramedic.

Geez, I'm getting old!

[El Tejon]

Good job, mean. I have 4 nephews to train up some day soon (all under 5 now).

Will keep this in mind.:)

[P95Carry]

El Tej' ....... not trying to be pedantic but .. whilst you give rule ##3 the priority status .. ya know I reckon this has it for me ... 2. Never point the muzzle at anything you do not want to destroy. I honestly think this is the one that if never broken all but guarantees no harm to anyone or anything ..... so many NG's that led to harm would have been incidental if committed with this rule paramount.

I may be splitting hairs .. but anyways .. all four are best way to go.:)

[Drjones]

You completely misunderstand me:

I asked if there is anything wrong with teaching newbies that the trigger is BAD, as in NOT MEANT TO BE TOUCHED, in an effort to help them learn to keep their fingers OFF the trigger at ALL times. :)