Cheapest non-parallax red-dot?


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jbauch357
April 3, 2008, 04:59 PM
I've been looking all over hell and back looking for an inexpensive red-dot scope that is non-parallax, but I can't seem to find one that is specifically called out as non-parallax until the price gets up around $100.

Is this common? Should I just give in to the fact that I need to dump decent money for a non-parallax scope, or am I looking in the wrong places?

This is going on a 7.62x39 Saiga by the way...

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jlbraun
April 3, 2008, 05:04 PM
Is this common? Should I just give in to the fact that I need to dump decent money for a non-parallax scope

Yes, it is. Crap red dots are more trouble than benefit.

dscottw88
April 3, 2008, 05:19 PM
what does Non-Parallax mean?

jlbraun
April 3, 2008, 05:25 PM
As you shift your head around, the dot stays on target.

dafitch
April 3, 2008, 05:57 PM
Ultradot's are $130 shipped from Larry's Guns. Lifetime guarantee and lowest parallax error. I don't work for Larry, but have purchased 4 Ultradots from him in the last few years. 95% of the guys on line with me at the BE matches use Ultradot.

jbauch357
April 3, 2008, 09:12 PM
lowest parallax error

Is that the same thing as non-parallax, or does that mean it's parallax with minimal effect?

blackhawk2000
April 3, 2008, 10:42 PM
I had a strike dot by ultra dot. It didn't last 1000 rds on my AK. Not really interested in the lifetime warrenty, if I need to send it in every 1K. Also had another one take a crap still in the box. You can't shut this one off.

Coronach
April 3, 2008, 11:54 PM
IIRC, there's no such thing as a paralax-free sight, but the quality dots reduce it to a negligible influence. Red dot sights are cheap if you don't mind mediocre performance. You get low durability/strength to weight (either the whole thing is flimsy, or it's just overbuilt), mediocre glass, poor controls, poor battery life, unacceptable paralax, small FOV etc etc etc in the really cheap ones. As you increase performance, you increase price. You need to decide where you need to be on the cost/quality curve.

Mike

Ford
April 4, 2008, 09:39 AM
For the lesser expensive red dots check out the Bushnell Trophy MP.

glink
April 4, 2008, 09:46 AM
I also concur on the Ultra-dot positive experience. I like mine quite a bit. I also looked at some Millett's. Seemed to be acceptable too. I think they are less than 100 bucks

railroader
April 4, 2008, 10:23 AM
I have a millett on my saiga it works fine. They have them here: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=459296. I also have a BSA open style red dot that actually works pretty good that I have used on my kel-tec rifle. The 3moa dot was very crisp and they are on sale right now at midway for $30. http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=399922&utm_source=bsbsasight_img&utm_medium=homepage33108



http://www.midwayusa.com/mediasvr.dll/image?saleitemid=399922

alohanole
April 4, 2008, 10:27 AM
For the lesser expensive red dots check out the Bushnell Trophy MP.

+1.

I have one on my DPMS AR, but it is plagued by a bit o' the parallax.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
April 4, 2008, 10:54 AM
First of all, they won't be advertised as "non-parallax" because that is not technically correct. "Parallax-free", though similar, is different, and is the correct phrase. ALL *quality* red dots are parallax free. The lower quality ones may or may not be, but they'll be much *more* parallax-free than any magnified optic. Sorry, I do not know which cheap ones are completely P-F, and which are not.

highorder
April 4, 2008, 12:02 PM
ALL *quality* red dots are parallax free. The lower quality ones may or may not be, but they'll be much *more* parallax-free than any magnified optic.

As is my understanding.

Jackal
April 4, 2008, 12:22 PM
I think the cheapest "no parallax" sight is going to be the Bushnell Holosight. I have one and it has proven to be free of problems over 1,000 of rounds. No matter where I move my head, it always shoots to the same point.

pmbiker
April 4, 2008, 12:26 PM
I've had an Ultradot parked on my Ruger MKIII for @2k rds. It is just short of perfect, could be a little lighter for use on a pistol. That wouldn't matter much on a rifle.

I know an AK isn't a long range tool, but I prefer a red dot with a little magnification for mine. 3x +/- is about right. 1x is most available and preferred for CQB, I don't do a lot of that though.

What mount are you using to put it on your Saiga?

jbauch357
April 4, 2008, 12:29 PM
great info, thanks everybody!

What mount are you using to put it on your Saiga?
The mount I am planning on using is this one (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=990185&t=11082005), I like that it's quick disconnect so I can remove the setup for cleaning and travel. The only thing I don't really like is that it's a dual mount, since I only plan on adding a scope I don't really need the additional side mount...

Walkalong
April 4, 2008, 04:23 PM
If you think your cheap red dot is doing great, beg, borrow, or steal an Aimpoint or such and give it a try.

:what: WOW, my groups just shrunk. :D

Yea, cheap red dots are great for plinking/blasting and are fun, but for the best accuracy, they won't cut it.

That said, I believe the Ulra Dots are the answer to your question. I have an Ultra Dot L/T (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=75000&d=1206138026) that I really like.

The Aimpoints will spoil you if you try one of them.

jbauch357
April 6, 2008, 12:28 AM
I went and looked at a few scopes tonight and have to say that I was really impressed with this model (http://www.bushnell.com/general/riflescopes_trophy_73-0135.cfm) of the Bushnell Trophy series.

While I was there I also looked at a millen and could tell even in the short range inside the store that the parallax would be unaccaptable - I won't be looking that brands direction any more.

Unfortunately they only had 4 scopes to look at, the millen and bushnell were the only ones in my price range. I'll look for a bigger store with more display items, but was really impressed with the bushnell...

Ford
April 6, 2008, 11:00 AM
I have bought a couple scopes from these guys. The usually have about the best prices I can find.

http://www.opticsplanet.net/bushnell-laser-sights.html

wally
April 6, 2008, 12:41 PM
IIRC, there's no such thing as a parallax-free sight, but the quality dots reduce it to a negligible influence.

Correct, the only way to be parallax free is to be able to adjust the apparent distance of the dot to match the distance to the target. But as a practical matter once the apparent distance of the dot gets to 20' (the 20 from 20/20 vision) it is effectively at "infinity" as is your target at distances beyond 7 yards.

I've had great results with the cheap red dots, EO Tech or Aimpoint are better for sure, but unless you are planing on combat, they are not 10-20X better IMHO.

The key to using red dots is you must look thru the dot and focus your vision on the target, lowering the brightness as much as possible to still easily see the dot helps.

Since even the smallest dots are 1 MOA or more in apparent size, you are trading speed of acquisition for precision aim.

--wally.

Ian
April 6, 2008, 01:58 PM
The mount I am planning on using is this one, I like that it's quick disconnect so I can remove the setup for cleaning and travel.

Don't do it - that mount is a piece of junk. I bought one, and couldn't get it to secure to the side rail. It just rattled and wobbled around. There was no actual "locking" mechanism! Just a lever and a round (not oblong) bolt. Save your pennies and get something decent, like an Ultimak rail.

jackdanson
April 6, 2008, 02:03 PM
Yeah, I'd use an ultimak, its the only mount I had work properly... better yet, don't get a mount at all, buy a russian optic. Get a kobra for about $200 and you won't have to buy a mount, and you'll be getting a better red-dot than all these cheapy american ones.

Mannlicher
April 6, 2008, 02:42 PM
I have been using EOTech sights for some time now. I recently got a BSA Holo sight to use on my Ruger Mini 14. It has not been tested yet though, but I thought I would give it a try.

72IH
April 6, 2008, 07:25 PM
I have an ATN. Can't hit consitantly with it. However I have no idea of how to set it up. Do I try and sight it with the front sight. First AR I tried it on didn't have a front sight, now my second one has the front sight. It appears that the dot is in the lower half of the glass once I get it on the flat top upper. Maybe I just need basic insructions on how to sight it in??. Not much for detail in the instructions that came with it. I haven't spent much time with it because I feel I can shoot just as good with iron sights.

ormandj
April 6, 2008, 08:11 PM
I agree with Jackal, as far as I'm aware, the only "true" holosight-type sights are the Bushnell and EOTech variants. If you're going to be playing at the range, Bushnell, if you're going to be dragging your weapon through mud - EOTech. :) Never tried the BSA variant, is it a "true" holosight?

jbauch357
April 7, 2008, 12:50 AM
Still in search of the best product for the dollar, I spent a bit of time on http://www.avtomats-in-action.com/index.html

It makes it a bit hard determining what is in my price range since you have to request prices for their items, but I've got a mail off and will hopefully get something back from them soon. Being that the vast majority of their products are specifically engineered for the AK-47 and it's variants I have high hopes that they are quality products for a fair price...

dstorm1911
April 7, 2008, 12:12 PM
IAN, to get the mount to fit tight you have to adjust it for the rail it is to be used on, the AK uses friction clamping rather than the SVD oblong lock, to adjust you simply remove the lever, rotate the screw until it will lock solid and then back it off 1/2 turn remove the mount and re-install the lever, it will then lock rock solid with a flip of the lever.

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