AK in 6.5 Grendel w/ AR Magwell?


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JesseL
April 4, 2008, 01:25 PM
Ever since I put together an AK on a Romanian 'G' kit and marveling and just how easy it was (rivet build), I've been pondering variations on the project.

I'm thinking that if I buy a .264" barrel blank, it should be trivial to give it a correct AK profile on my lathe and ream the chamber to 6.5 Grendel. After that I was thinking I'd bend/weld up a simple STANAG magwell out of sheet steel that could be either welded or riveted to the AK receiver. Biggest issue will probably be getting the mag height and angle right for reliable feeding.

So, are there any show stopping issues I'm overlooking? Does it sound cool? Waste of time? Whaddaya think?

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1 old 0311
April 4, 2008, 01:38 PM
Whoul ANYONE ever buy that if you decided to sell??????????????:confused:

JesseL
April 4, 2008, 01:39 PM
I have no idea. I'm not really think of a saleable product though, just an interesting project.

Funderb
April 4, 2008, 01:42 PM
why not just start with the 6.5 barrel already chambered?
or do those exist?

Remember that the feed lips have to match the bolt grooves.

JesseL
April 4, 2008, 01:45 PM
6.8 (.277") barrel blanks are readily available too, but the 6.5 Grendel has the advantage of sharing the same case head size as the 7.62x39, unlike the 6.8SPC.

If I need too, I can always tweak the bolt a little to match the magazines.

Edit:
It looks like you edited the question. AFAIK the only 6.5 Grendel chambered barrels are for AR-15s, and I'm not sure that they've got enough material left to be made to fit the AK trunnion, gas, block, etc. And then the headspace probably wouldn't be right either.

retgarr
April 4, 2008, 01:47 PM
It seems like a misuse of an AK to me. I don't know why but that's the feeling I get...

Funderb
April 4, 2008, 01:49 PM
yeah I saw i had put in 6.8 and i corrected myself. my mistake though.
I am not really familliar with the 6.5, but this sounds reasonable from a mechanical engineering standpoint.
how about a 5.45x39 barrel and reboring it? oh wait there is the fabled, going around the ass to get to the elbow.

your getup sounds fair.

Badger Arms
April 4, 2008, 01:50 PM
You presume there's something wrong with the 5.45, 5.56, 7.62x39mm, 7.62 Nato chamberings already being used? What more does 6.8mm add? A poorly designed, questionably reliable magazine? I submit they'd feed better from a fully curved AK magazine than from a monstrosity like the AR mag.

Funderb
April 4, 2008, 01:52 PM
badger may be onto something, curved mag might be better.

JesseL
April 4, 2008, 01:56 PM
Nope, there's nothing wrong with the existing chamberings. I'd just like to do it because it would be interesting and unique, while hopefully remaining reasonably functional.

The primary reason for using AR magazines, is because they're currently the only ones available for the 6.5 Grendel, and curved 7.62x39 AK mags won't work too well with the Grendel because it has far less taper than the 7.62.

JeepGeek
April 4, 2008, 03:31 PM
why not just buy a 7.72X39 upper for an AR if you want an AK/AR hybrid?

Or a Keltec SU16? I've even heard of folks rebarelling to 6.5

JesseL
April 4, 2008, 03:57 PM
why not just buy a 7.72X39 upper for an AR if you want an AK/AR hybrid?

Or a Keltec SU16? I've even heard of folks rebarelling to 6.5

That doesn't sound like a very interesting project.

I want to do it because I can. It's not as much about having it as doing it.

Besides, with an AK I can pull off the whole thing under $300 and I've got more time and tools than money.

hooks
April 5, 2008, 05:49 PM
JesseL, I'd give Bill Alexander a call and see if you can get some advice out of him, I think there are bolt action match shooters in 6.5g, maybe Bill can fix you up or Les Baer can help too....check out the 6.5forum too, Arnie used to roam around there, he has the competition shooting sports web site.

corncob
June 4, 2008, 08:42 PM
Update??

Jim Watson
June 4, 2008, 09:52 PM
You could do it if you can do it.

I question why you would want a bullet hose like an AK in an expensive caliber like 6.5 G.

JesseL
June 4, 2008, 10:22 PM
Update??

I've got a 'G' kit that I'm slowly pulling apart. Currently keeping an eye open for a good deal on a suitable .264" barrel blank and trying to decide if I want to further complicate the project by adding an AR-180 style gas system.

You could do it if you can do it.

I question why you would want a bullet hose like an AK in an expensive caliber like 6.5 G.

An excellent tautology.:D

I guess I'm curious how well the AK will work as something other than a bullet hose. Kinda continuing the long American tradition of making silk purses out of sow's ears.

Besides that 6.5 Grendel shouldn't be too expensive if I reload for it or go with the $12.00/20 Wolf stuff.

GunTech
June 5, 2008, 01:47 PM
I'm not sure if it would work in an AK, but there's a Galil mag adapter that let's you use AR mags. You might be able to adapt one to an AK and save yourself a lot of bother.

http://guntech.com/galil/golani_fastfire-1.jpg

JesseL
June 5, 2008, 02:03 PM
I'm not sure if it would work in an AK, but there's a Galil mag adapter that let's you use AR mags. You might be able to adapt one to an AK and save yourself a lot of bother.

I've been thinking about that. I'd love to examine one of those adapters and see how well it would work, but they're a little pricey and not easy to find.

I'd also like to achieve a little cleaner look by dispensing with the AK magazine latch.

Hmmm, ponderponderponder...

rogerxd45
June 5, 2008, 02:15 PM
why? i hate that question!

why the hell not is what im thinking.

now how hard would it be to get an ak47 mag that could hold 6.5? i know they have the same case head and the rest of the cartridge is a little like it.

im a big fan of the 6.5 and i think it would be a cool project. and its people like you that ask why the hell not instead of just why that create some really cool things, the people that are just happy with what exists will never create something unique. also a project like this will no doubt have a few road blocks and each time you solve each one you improve you machining and problem solving skills

GunTech
June 5, 2008, 02:20 PM
I'm all for it. The problem is that the Grendel has a case taper of about 18 minutes of a degree. The 7.62x39 has a case taper of about 1.5 degrees. The AK mag is too curved for Grendel.

JesseL
June 5, 2008, 02:25 PM
I'm all for it. The problem is that the Grendel has a case taper of about 18 minutes of a degree. The 7.62x39 has a case taper of about 1.5 degrees. The AK mag is too curved for Grendel.

Yep, that's precisely why I'd like to make it work with the magazines that were made to work with the Grendel.

I do recall hearing somewhere though, that 5.54 AK-74 magazines would work with a little modification to the follower and feed lips. I just hate the idea of modifying all the magazines I could want instead of making the gun work with existing magazines.

JesseL
June 5, 2008, 03:10 PM
Ah, I think I've found my barrel!

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=856881&t=11082005
Not too bad for $79.99

It looks like the F54 contour (http://www.sporterexpress.com/?p=a_b_contour) should have plenty of meat left to turn it down to match a Romanian 'G' profile (http://forum.saiga-12.com/lofiversion/index.php/t26419.html).

I might leave it a little long for a little extra velocity, maybe 18".

HJ857
June 5, 2008, 03:36 PM
I'm one of those that's had poor luck with Grendel mags. AA and CProd mags are equally poor in my AA upper.

The only mag that works is a MWG 10 rounder for the 7.62x39 cartridge. Feed lips judiciously filed. The MWG limits the OAL to 2.238, so it really only works for 120 grain SMK's. Unfortunately my upper doesn't like 120g SMK's.

Anyway, the MWG mag may be worth a look for this experiment.

GunTech
June 5, 2008, 03:58 PM
I'm shooting 6.5G in a turnbolt (CZ-527) so no problems here.

That Adams and Bennet is a deal. Lot's cheaper than my Montana rifleman and Liljas. I'm half tempted to by one myself, for another CZ project.

corncob
June 5, 2008, 06:06 PM
why the hell not is what im thinking.

Amen to that.

And I say "nay" to the gas system change. It might mean the difference between shooting the first groups with your own unique rifle in a few weeks and shooting the first groups with your own unique rifle in a few months. Save that for 6.5 Grendel AK Prototype No. 2.

JesseL
June 5, 2008, 06:31 PM
And I say "nay" to the gas system change. It might mean the difference between shooting the first groups with your own unique rifle in a few weeks and shooting the first groups with your own unique rifle in a few months. Save that for 6.5 Grendel AK Prototype No. 2.

Yeah, I'm kinda leaning that direction. I'll probably stick with the conventional AK gas system for now, but I am thinking I might work up some sort of freefloat tube and ditch the handguards.

I just picked up a box of Wolf 6.5 Grendel 123gr SP ammo over at J&G Sales to play with. It will definitely not work in a 30rd 7.62 AK mag. They start bunching up within 4-5 rounds. This confirms some of my thinking towards the AR style magazine adaptation.

SimpleIsGood229
August 14, 2008, 03:08 PM
What's the status of the AK65?

JesseL
August 14, 2008, 03:34 PM
What's the status of the AK65?

It's progressing s-l-o-w-l-y.

I got my C&R license so I get the dealer discount from Midway now. That means I'll be ordering the barrel blank pretty soon.

I ran into some snags with disassembling the front trunnion and barrel, so I'm going to have to make some tooling to sort that out.

Once I have the barrel blank I'll be able to take it down to an AK contour pretty darn quick. After that I'll have to some chamber reamers and headspace gauges, an then it shouldn't be long til I can fire it. Building the magwell will probably require some trial and error time.

sbeckman
December 12, 2009, 08:15 PM
Any update on this project?

I've independently considered the same thing myself and found this thread during my research.

The_sks_grendel_man
May 27, 2010, 12:08 PM
here's the link [url]http://magnoliastatearmory.com/products-page

If you enjoyed reading about "AK in 6.5 Grendel w/ AR Magwell?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!