Hard to get bolt down on new reloads


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RJS34
April 4, 2008, 05:48 PM
I have just taken up reloading. I have an RCBS RCKCHKR and loaded up some 22-250 loads. I have some factory loads (as well as several manuals). I did a couple different batches of 5 each. I was very careful on resizing, priming, bullet seating etc. When I went to shoot the reloads it was quite difficult to get the bolt down and up on the rifle as compared to the factory rounds. What could be causing it?

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Samgotit
April 4, 2008, 05:54 PM
Check the first sentence of this post:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=349785

RJS34
April 4, 2008, 05:56 PM
Thanks

Sunray
April 4, 2008, 05:59 PM
Check your OAL. Your bullet may be getting stuck in the rifling. Mind you, it's also possible you didn't quite get the sizing die set up right. The shell holder should just kiss the bottom of the die with the ram all the way up.

kimbernut
April 4, 2008, 06:11 PM
RJS34 you have a PM.

steve4102
April 4, 2008, 06:31 PM
The shell holder should just kiss the bottom of the die with the ram all the way up.\

Not exactly! Just kissing the shell holder may work for one particular rifle and die combo and may make a mess out of things in another.

The first thing you need to do is determine what is causing the problem, sizing or seating. Yes? Yes. Resize a few pieces of brass fired from your rifle and see if they chamber (no bullet). If not then you have to adjust your FL die. Go back and read USSR's post on head space and you will be all set.

The best way to set up your dies is with the help of a Stoney Point Head and Shoulder Gauge. No guess work and perfectly sized brass.

W.E.G.
April 4, 2008, 06:47 PM
If you are reloading bottleneck rifle cartridges, and you are not using an RCBS Precision Mic (or the equivalent), your method is no more than guesswork.

Do-over.


http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/precisionmic.jpg

RJS34
April 4, 2008, 07:12 PM
Where can I get the stoney point guage? Most of the sites I have seen no longer offer them.

swiss7.5
April 4, 2008, 07:30 PM
stoney point is now hornady

Ol` Joe
April 4, 2008, 07:56 PM
Where can I get the stoney point guage? Most of the sites I have seen no longer offer them.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=479704

RJS34
April 4, 2008, 08:22 PM
Thanks for everyone's help. I am assuming that I can use the hornady headspace gauge with a .270 Weatherby Magnum and .300 Weatherby Magnum? The only reason I ask is because I don't see them referenced.

http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=485

langenc
April 4, 2008, 10:12 PM
Lube the INSIDE of the case neck. Graphite works great. PM if you want tip on how to make neck luber. If not when the expander ball comes out it stretches the case and that will give HARD bolt closing. It puts the case 'out of dimension' as noted in the technical post.

The Bushmaster
April 4, 2008, 10:24 PM
One of two thing might be happening. One...The shoulder is too far forward...Two...You didn't mention whether you trimmed the case to insure proper case length and you may be jamming the case mouth into the rifling or lead...This latter (Two) can lead to over pressures if not corrected. And you don't need all those fancy tools and adaptors. Just a handy set of dial calipers and a loading manual...

Bullet
April 4, 2008, 10:43 PM
Check these as listed by posts above - -

1 - Cases resized properly (enough).

2 - Cartridge OAL too long (bullet in the lands).

3 - Case OAL too long.

I like the RCBS Mic.


.

John4me05
April 5, 2008, 09:46 AM
I would put the factory round into my seat die and set the depth with it... You know they fit and close so with all of them that OAL they have to fit unless there is a problem with the case

kimbernut
April 5, 2008, 10:24 AM
Not necessarily, John. If the ogive of the reloaded bullet is different than the factory you could still have the same problem (bullet into the lands).

rcmodel
April 5, 2008, 10:54 AM
Screw your sizing die down until you get all the flex out of the press when it bottoms out. You should feel it start to get tight, or "bump" when the die is adjusted correctly.

Size a case and try it in the rifle and see if it will close.
Keep adjusting the die down slightly until you feel just a slight bit of resistance when you close the bolt and you are good to go.

Measure a sized case and check for correct length. The 22-250 needs to be trimmed quite often.

It is very unlikely it has anything to do with seating depth.
Your bolt-action rifle has enough camming power to seat a long bullet, or else push it into the rifling without undue force.
You will be able to see rifling scratches on the bullet if that is happening.

Bottom line, adjust the sizing die correctly to get all the press flex taken care of, and your problem will probably go away.

rcmodel

John4me05
April 5, 2008, 11:27 AM
Not necessarily, John. If the ogive of the reloaded bullet is different than the factory you could still have the same problem (bullet into the lands).


Im dumb.. What is a ogive... I just know what fits my gun and how to do it.. Fortunately i havent had a problem

rcmodel
April 5, 2008, 11:45 AM
Fancy word for the shape of the bullet.

rcmodel

ants
April 5, 2008, 12:57 PM
For an excellent illustrated education on all the fine advice above, go to the Hornady web site and find the Ballistics Resource button on the home page, then click Internal Ballistics on the menu it creates. That will explain why the fine advice above is important in diagnosing and fixing your problem.

And just to repeat the advice above, the symptom you are experiencing is likely to increase chamber pressure dramatically. Refrain from discharging those rounds until you fix the problem.

10 Spot Terminator
April 5, 2008, 01:22 PM
On your question of being able to use the Stoney point headspace checker you get a kit with standard interchangeable collets to measure overall case length at the datum line on the cases which works on fired and unfired or resized cases that allows you to get good measurements before and after firing your cases . This will give you the true story on resizing your cases as often times the shoulders are not being set back at all and you will be doing a glorified neck sizing only operation. If you find as in some rare cases your dies bottom out without the shoulders being set back and are using RCBS dies you can send the dies back to RCBS with 5 fired unsized cases and they will custom tweak them for you as I had done on a set of their .264 Win. Mag dies. Dont know if other die makers do this, is the only one I ever had trouble with . By the way, this is a free service they offer, just costs you the shipping to get them there, they are located in Oroville, CA and best of luck to you on getting some good loads worked up . It's an addiction, trust me . 10 Spot

snuffy
April 5, 2008, 02:57 PM
And just to repeat the advice above, the symptom you are experiencing is likely to increase chamber pressure dramatically. Refrain from discharging those rounds until you fix the problem.

Oh,,, HOW? As long as the bolt is all the way down, it'll fire without problems. If you're assuming the bullet IS crammed into the rifling, THAT could/will raise pressure, the chamber pressure has to overcome the bullets in inability to move without resistance,(just overcoming neck tension).

Whether a case is a tight fit or easily chambered, has nothing to do with chamber pressure. Even if the reloader crams the bullet into the rifling, as long as he has worked up a load from starting to max, a tight case will not cause a higher chamber pressure.

Bullet
April 5, 2008, 03:04 PM
John4me05 - Parts of a bullet -

ants
April 5, 2008, 04:31 PM
Hi, Snuffy. No confrontation is meant here. We're gentlemen helping another reloader.

The original post didn't say that he trimmed his cases. He may have an occasional overlength case.
Cut and pasted from the Hornady web site http://www.hornady.com/ballistics/internal.php
The notations (left,top) etc. refer to the illustrations on the web page.:

"When an overlength case is chambered, the mouth or edge of the neck will come up against the throat (left, top) before the bolt has fully closed or the case shoulder has contacted the chamber (left, upper middle). The camming action of the bolt is so powerful that it will actually crimp the case mouth fully into the bullet (left, lower middle) and wedge the case so solidly between the bullet and the throat that the neck cannot expand to release the bullet. Chamber pressures in this situation can and most certainly will go dangerously high (left, bottom)."

Walkalong
April 5, 2008, 05:46 PM
Not exactly! Just kissing the shell holder may work for one Depends on who is holding the shell. :D

Lots of good suggestions so far.

ants
April 5, 2008, 06:03 PM
Walkalong is funny!

RJS34
April 5, 2008, 07:57 PM
I did trim the cases. I think the problem was I wasn't lubing the inside of the necks as good as I should have, it was kind of tough on the down stroke of the sizing.

My next question is how much lube do I need on the inside of the case. I did some more up this afternoon and put some on the brush but when I went to add the powder the inside of the neck was covered with powder stuck to the lube. Is that alright?

Thanks again for everyones help.

snuffy
April 5, 2008, 08:19 PM
I was very careful on resizing, priming, bullet seating etc.

ANTS, from that I took that all the case prep had been done including trimming. RJS being fairly new at this did not go into enough detail, such is the state of most new reloaders. You assumed the old "case is too long" scenario. Yes that can crowd the neck into the bullet, hampering easy release, raising pressure.

To error on the side of safety, maybe he should NOT fire those, but I bet he already did. I replied from my experience when firing some handloads that I KNEW weren't too long AND the bullets were no where near engraved into the rifling. They simply were a bit fat from one too many neck sizings. No problemo. Sorry if my post appeared confrontational.

snuffy
April 5, 2008, 08:25 PM
My next question is how much lube do I need on the inside of the case. I did some more up this afternoon and put some on the brush but when I went to add the powder the inside of the neck was covered with powder stuck to the lube. Is that alright?

It depends on which lube you're using. If it says it won't hurt powder or primers, then it's not a problem. The powder will simply be pushed down where it belongs, then get burned when fired.

I use RCBS case slick pump spray lube. It is completely inert concerning powder and primers. I spray a bunch in a lubing dedicated bowl with the cases in it, swish them around and get busy loading. That gets some inside the neck, I see powder clinging to the neck insides all the time.

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