...I was frisked...


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Jimmy Dean
April 5, 2008, 01:46 PM
Ran into a leo at a gas station, and I guess he didn't like how I looked (cowboy boots, white t-shirt, gray slacks, black belt with silver buckle) asked what I was up to, and proceeded to frisk me...

The only problem with this really.

I WAS OPEN CARRYING A PISTOL!!!

Honestly. I have a pistol strapped to my hip for the world to see. Is there a REASON to honestly think that I would be hiding something if I had a gun on my hip?????? What, you think I had a shotgun stuffed down my pants leg? honestly...

Now, I let him frisk just cause I thought it was funny as all get-up. I mean...come on... if I had something to hide, you wouldnt see the gun.


Normally by OCing or beign honest about where my gun is I get out of frisks/seraches

case in point, traffic stop, leo hops out of car, pulls his gun, has me get out of my truck hands over my head, asks to search my vehicle, I said 'sure' he asked if I wanted to tell him about anything in there before he got to lookin, I said yheah, there is a .45 under the console, loaded, knife in the driver door pocket, knife under the dash, knife in the passenger door pocket...I think thats it. Cop put up his gun and let me go, said that he was pretty sure I wasn't hiding anything or I wouldnt have told him about all the other fun stuff


But back to he topic, I mean, I have a .45 on my hip, are you really that worried about the knife in my pocket?

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FieroCDSP
April 5, 2008, 01:51 PM
Maybe he just wanted to practice? :rolleyes:

GTSteve03
April 5, 2008, 01:52 PM
I think he was hitting on you! :eek:

Punkermonkey
April 5, 2008, 01:54 PM
Why do you get stopped and searched so often? I have not been searched in over 15 years....:confused:

Tuil
April 5, 2008, 01:55 PM
Sexual harrasment! ;)

revjen45
April 5, 2008, 02:01 PM
Guess it's just as well that I'm old and fat. I don't get sexually harrassed by the cops.:D

mljdeckard
April 5, 2008, 02:04 PM
I can see the thought process. The cop is thinking to himself, "This guy is armed. But if I write this up, my boss is going to ask me what I did about it. I have no idea what else I can do, so I will search him just to make sure."

RoostRider
April 5, 2008, 02:05 PM
Why do you get stopped and searched so often? I have not been searched in over 15 years

I have been searched many times.... all when I had long hair and was driving a clapped out pick up truck... Now I'm 41 and greying, driving a nice truck.... suddenly I don't get questioned near as much..... interesting.....

It has a lot more to do with how you look than some might have you believe.... but then again.... if I owned a store, and the two different me's had come in paying with a check, the one would have been treated with more scrutiny than the other....

At some point in life you realize that how you look really does affect how people treat you, so you start looking like you want to be treated instead of expecting people to treat you the same no matter how you look, because you realize that is a lost cause (people are prejudiced. period.).... at that point, you are probably less of a threat to others, because you look like less of a threat, and you are mature and comfortable...

So, to a certain extent, it works.

Jimmy Dean
April 5, 2008, 02:05 PM
Well, my truck would get searched regularly when going on base, of course

Country cops tend to want to search your vehicle when they pull you over for 40 over the limit (I dont do that anymore....much)

And I am the only person I have ever seen around these parts that OCs, so the cops arent used to seeing a guy carrying a gun.

Granted, sometimes I runinto hte good cops, was at the same gas station a week or so ago fillin up, cop on the other side of the pump was filling up as well, we started talking guns...and complainin about the 80 bucks to fill up our trucks

I think that alot of it is the fact that I am known to the local police and sheriff's as well now. The fact that I am the person who is getting interviewed by the papers now in support of concealed carry on campus as the campus leader for the SCCC whereas most of the LEOs are against it, at least, a signifigant number of them are so I am prolly getting a bit of harrassment on that front as well.


Roost. I was wearing cuffed slacks, cowboy boots, a white undershirt, tucked in, a belt, and I still sport my military style hair cut after being out for 4 years. MAYBE if I had had my trench on instead of using an umbrella (I was using the umbrella cause it is a PITA to keep the trench tucked behind the pistol so it remains visible)

thorazine
April 5, 2008, 02:06 PM
I think he was hitting on you!

Heh... my thoughts exactly.

cornman
April 5, 2008, 02:10 PM
Most of this board seems obsessed with the anti gun crowds stance on gun laws. Seems to me the cops are the ones who fear guns the most based on there behavior. If I see a guy with a gun and he is behaving normally, no big deal. Why are cops so freaked out about a gun, knife or less?

NG VI
April 5, 2008, 02:13 PM
case in point, traffic stop, leo hops out of car, pulls his gun, has me get out of my truck hands over my head, asks to search my vehicle,

What do you have to do to get stopped like that?

Oh, going 40 over. Gotcha. I like 20-25 over, usually more manageable for me!

Jimmy Dean
April 5, 2008, 02:14 PM
NG, I have had that happen on like 10 over stops though too. slow day I guess? I never used to care, I never have anything to hide, but now it is starting to get aggrivating.

doc2rn
April 5, 2008, 02:48 PM
I always agree but insist on a female to do it. I have met two good lookin LE females that where single that way, not to mention it is easier to tollerate. Before CCW I was always frisked when pulled over because I left it on the dashboard.

NG VI
April 5, 2008, 02:55 PM
Jimmy- What state do you live in? I've never seen an officer draw just when pulling someone over. Though I'm not LEO, when we stop vehicles our protical(SP) is to be at low ready.

Doc2rn- Does that work? I will forever ask for female friskers, I always thought you could only ask for a same-sex officer if you were stopped by an opposite sex officer.

meef
April 5, 2008, 02:56 PM
Jimmy Dean, huh?

Maybe he's just heard about your sausage?



:)

RoostRider
April 5, 2008, 03:07 PM
I was wearing cuffed slacks, cowboy boots, a white undershirt, tucked in, a belt, and I still sport my military style hair cut after being out for 4 years

and a gun!

Like it or not, people find guns threatening. People are prejudiced. Period.

mrreynolds
April 5, 2008, 03:09 PM
Cop put up his gun and let me go, said that he was pretty sure I wasn't hiding anything or I wouldn't have told him about all the other fun stuff

The Untouchables

Malone: Why are you carrying the gun?
Ness: I'm a treasury officer.
Malone: Oh, okay. Just keep in mind what we talked about, huh?
[Malone walks away]
Ness: Hey, wait a minute! What the hell kind of police work do they teach in this city, huh? You just turned your back on an armed man.
Malone: You're a treasury officer.
Ness: How do you know that? I just told you that.
Malone: Who would claim to be that who was not? Hmm?

SaxonPig
April 5, 2008, 03:13 PM
Reminds me of back in my youth when my buddy and I would sneak whiskey into the midnight movies. The theater had security guards searching patrons so that weapons, bottles of booze, etc didn't come in. When it was our turn we raised our hands and said loudly with a slight lisp "Ooooo, search me! Search me!"

We were never patted down. They just stepped back away from us and waved us in.

Zoogster
April 5, 2008, 03:22 PM
Actualy this situation is interesting.
Most case law that allows frisking does so for officer safety to merely pat down the individual to determine if weapons are present (not search for drugs or other contraband that might be present.)
Since you clearly had a handgun open carried it is quite clear you had a weapon that could pose a grave danger to officer safety with no need to frisk you.
So he really had little to gain by frisking you under the justification for frisking.

Frisking you is not allowed for a fishing expedition to find other forms of contraband. It is soley to determine if weapons are present.

I would like to see his reasoning in a court of law for frisking you.

doc2rn
April 5, 2008, 03:25 PM
Yes I tell them my lawyers name and say that I have the right to request another officer and that due to my fear of homosexuals I want a female. It has worked with TPD and Highway patrol thus far. 7 X's in all.

ArfinGreebly
April 5, 2008, 03:28 PM
"Uh, well, he had a pistol on his hip in plain view, so I was concerned that he might be carrying, you know, a weapon or something."

:D

Jimmy Dean
April 5, 2008, 03:29 PM
impressive doc.

The leo who drew down on a traffic stop was in arkansas. most of hte recent incidents have been in louisiana

akodo
April 5, 2008, 03:31 PM
Did he give a justification for said search? Did you consent to said search

I am aware of Terry and how it applies to officers being able to do a quick sweep or pat-down to see if you have something that can harm them...but as stated you were open carrying, what does he expect to find? Suitcase nuke?

Zundfolge
April 5, 2008, 03:34 PM
Ran into a leo at a gas station, and I guess he didn't like how I looked (cowboy boots, white t-shirt, gray slacks, black belt with silver buckle) asked what I was up to, and proceeded to frisk me...

Sounds like someone had a Brokeback moment ;)

Jimmy Dean
April 5, 2008, 03:36 PM
Yeah I gave him permission, with a pretty good chuckle on my part. I just found the whole situation...weird I mean, if I had a knife in my pocket (which I did) and he didnt realize it during the frisk (it was behinda pack of smokes incidentally) would he really be worried about it?

It was all part of the ussual wth are you carryinga gun for speech i get from local LEOs regularly.

At least the places where I carry are geting used to it, the wal mart greeters no longer mention it, gas station attendants no longer pay me any mind. Do still get the occasional long look from the girls at the register in the grocery store.....but then again, that may be cause of my dashingly good looks :P

fearless leader
April 5, 2008, 03:40 PM
He thought your boots were sexy! I had to stop typing and finnish laughing. Thanks, I needed a good laugh!

fatguynlittlecoat
April 5, 2008, 03:47 PM
Maybe he was lonely and just wanted a little kiss from you?

F4GIB
April 5, 2008, 04:06 PM
His ego need a boost so he decided to jack you around -- just because he can.

FWIW, Terry requires more than a desire to be safe. The officer has to be able to "articulate" something about the subject that causes him to suspect BOTH that the person might be engaged in criminal activity AND that he might be dangerous. OC hardly seems to qualify.

Here's a discussion from the FLETC (where all the non-FBI feds are trained):
Okay. Let’s start with Terry Stops. A Terry Stop, as you know, is an investigative detention of a suspect. We can conduct one with reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is a foot. An agent can stop a suspect and investigate that person for a reasonable period of time. And, even though that’s not a formal arrest, it is a seizure. The suspect’s not free to leave during that Terry Stop. The agent’s going to control that stop and can even use reasonable force to stop the suspect and keep him there while the agent does his investigation.

Now in addition to a Terry Stop, there’s another legal tool that’s similar, it’s called a Terry Frisk. After legally detaining the suspect in that Terry Stop, if the agent ADDITIONALLY has reasonable suspicion that the suspect is presently armed and dangerous, then the agent can conduct a limited search of that suspect’s outer clothing for weapons. Now weapons are basically anything that can be used to hurt the officer. So the search is going to be limited to searching for hard objects that the suspect could use to hurt the officer like guns, pocket knives, mace, clubs, … it’s not limited to just those things we ordinarily think are weapons. It could also be things like car keys or pens because those could hurt an officer as well.

More at http://www.fletc.gov/training/programs/legal-division/podcasts/4th-amendment-roadmap-podcasts/4th-amendment-transcripts/terry-stop-frisk.html

Titan6
April 5, 2008, 04:06 PM
This is one of the many reasons that open carry is so great. LEOs are so very used to equating guns with trouble that thier minds almost shut down when faced with open carry. Over time if we have more open carry they may adjust and realize that it is not the gun that is the problem.

Mainsail
April 5, 2008, 04:10 PM
Where did this happen, Peru?

For suspicion of what crime was he detaining you?

Jimmy Dean
April 5, 2008, 04:32 PM
for suspiscion of no crime I would imagine. That tends to be how they do things up here. That is some of what I am tryin to work on changing.

Tim Burke
April 5, 2008, 05:08 PM
I have bad news for you, Jimmy. You're engaged, now.

geekWithA.45
April 5, 2008, 05:16 PM
You know, that's a *fascinating* question.

It would seem to me that the justification for the Terry search would indeed go poof! in the presence of a blatantly armed individual.

I believe it's also well established that being openly armed in jurisdictions that don't prohibit it does not create probable cause.

I'm gonna toss this fascination question over to some legal type folks.


It's also possible he was simply leaving his mark, like a dog urinating on a post.

I have noticed that humans like to play various domination games, like "sure, you're armed, but I can still lay hands on you at will".

Cannonball888
April 5, 2008, 06:53 PM
Do you look like a Midnight Cowboy? :p

Pax Jordana
April 5, 2008, 07:20 PM
soooo, who else here has dual membership at THR and closetcops.com?

really! it never gets old!

I'm following this one. Geek, if you get an answer, be a pal and share it.

(y'know, if what we're all saying is true, cop bashing isn't only against THR rules, it may now be a hate crime)

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