[JShirley]

Guys, one of the former moderators was reactivated from a retired reserve status, and is in Iraq. He is looking for: a crowbar about 18 inches long and made from titanium. We're having problems getting to folks trapped in their trailors.

Suggestions?

[EHCRain10]

Try this:
http://www.materials.com/Titanium_tools.HTML

or this:
http://www.adventuresdownunder.com/hardware.htm

[hso]

John,

Just googling Ti crowbar will give it to them. I had one of these and found it to be very useful.

OTOH, why does Al want Ti?

[JShirley]

I'm guessing it's a weight thing. Do you think steel would be stronger?

[Pax Jordana]

OTOH, why does Al want Ti?

Stronger per weight, doesn't corrode as easily as steel, AFAIK impossible or at least inhumanly difficult to spark.

Shirl, are we having a crowbar drive? I make crap student wages, but if you're willing to collect I'll send you a few bucks.

[phoglund]

I'm with PAX. Let's not tell him where to get one, let's send him one or two.

[hso]

Steel is stronger if heavier and much cheaper as well.

John,

Didn't you carry a standard Stanly pry bar when you were in Afghanistan?

[ArfinGreebly]

Steel is stronger if heavier and much cheaper as well.

Stronger per weight . . .

So, if I understand this, a 21-inch STEEL bar of one-inch cross section will be stronger than a 21-inch Titanium bar of one-inch cross section, though the Ti bar will weigh substantially less?

What would the equivalent strength-cross-section in Ti be?

Said otherwise, to achieve the same strength as steel in Ti, what are the comparative diameters?

[hso]

AG,

Yes, generally speaking steel is stronger than Ti (looking at appropriate alloys of each) when you look at objective criteria like yield strength related to volume.

Nice little article by our friends at Swordforums.com that accurately presents the issue. - http://swordforum.com/metallurgy/titanium.html

[JShirley]

hso,

No, I didn't carry a pry bar, as I only ended up doing frequent "mounted patrols" at the very tail end of the deployment (and thinking, man, it's going to suck if I buy the farm two weeks before I'm due to leave country).

I'll talk to Al some more.

[Browning]

One of these looks like it would fit his needs pretty well.

Truckmans Tool
http://www.firehooksunlimited.net/images/truckmanstool.jpg

O-Bar Kit
http://www.firehooksunlimited.net/images/obar_kit.jpg

Truckmans Tool and O-Bar Kit
http://www.firehooksunlimited.net/entry.html


Mini-Probar
http://tomsmithfire.com/images/miniprobars.jpg

It's a smaller version of what we use to gain entry into a house when it's on fire or after someones door has been jammed or crushed shut after an MVA. I don't see why it wouldn't work for exactly the same purpose over in Iraq or Afghanistan.

[JShirley]

Al wanted a titanium bar because of the light weight. As I have often opined to folks who think a "combat knife" should be a ginormous 8" blade, soldiers have a lot of gear to carry, and all that weight adds up. He said he does have access to prying tools, but wanted a light bar that he could always keep with him.

He also said they were apparently hard to find in stock. Suggestions?

Browning, the "truckman's tool" design strikes me as being more useful for a soldier with a lot of gear, because of the lack of that third offset piece the "mini probar" and "obar" have. I can just see that catching on stuff when you're trying to deploy it in a hurry.

[Browning]

Yeah, I could see that too, but maybe there's some kind of padded case for it.

There's also always these.

The EOD Breacher Bar.
http://www.countycomm.com/eodrtool2large.jpg

http://www.countycomm.com/eodrtool.htm

EOD ROBOTICS BREACHER BAR

EOD Robotics developed this compact breaching tool with input from Bomb Techs, SWAT Operators and Patrol Officers. All these folks need a tool for prying, cutting and pounding, and here's the answer.

Made From 1045 High Carbon Steel and Fully Heat Treated To A Rockwell Hardness of Over 45.

The EOD Robotics Breacher Bar comes ready to go as a pry bar or lever. Ideal for opening crates and even punching through steel drums etc. The coffin corner back edge lends itself to a hammer nicely.

The 2 inner holes in the handle can be for paracord or solid slabs or whatever you like. The hole towards the top of the blade and the one on the end are good for lashing it onto a shaft, tree branch etc.The end hole is geared for hanging it up or for attaching a lanyard so you do not lose it in that pit or in the water.

The top edge can be hammered on as can the back end. And then you can use your imagination to do other things with it. (makes a good wood chisel too!).

$12.00

(Breacher Bars Do Not Come With Cord Wrapped Handles. You will receive the metal bar. The rest is up to you)
Not Pretty, But Pretty Handy. These were bulk packed for shipment to the military so they may have some rub marks where they have rubbed together in transit.
MADE IN USA

I've got one for opening sealed ammo cans and wood crates that are nailed shut.

It's not going to have anywhere near the leverage as some of the larger pry bars, but it's does have the advantage of being smaller and alot lighter and I've managed to use it to pry much heavier things apart than I thought I could at first (none of those things that I've pried apart have been car body steel though). Plus the person carrying doesn't have to worry about landing with the spike end jammed in the back if they fall backwards on their pack.

I shapened part of the edge on mine to cut cord and I love it.

If it ends up breaking at some point (pretty unlikely) I'm not really out a whole lot of money.

[JShirley]

Looks interesting. How long is it?

John

[hso]

The countycomm EOD Breacher Bar is steel, not Ti so it's not any improvement over a flat prybar you can pick up at Home Depot for less.

[EHCRain10]

Looking at my EOD Breacher bar from County Comm it is 8.5 inches long, 1.25 wide and 3/16inch thick. for the price it seems pretty useful

[Mandirigma]

whoa, deja vu got a breacher bar, amongst other things, from countycomm a week ago. now this. spooky.

[TAB]

What about a wonder bar aka flat bar.

http://www.stanleytools.com/catalog_images/mid_res/55-515_mid_res.jpg

you would be amazed on what you can do with these things. They are cheap, and relativly light wieght.


he might also want to google "titanium exit tools"


I've seen a few of these on diffrent job sites.

http://store.stilettotools.com/Detail.bok?no=52

http://store.stilettotools.com/stores/stiletto/catalog/07_TiCLW12_300.jpg

but I'd really look into the air crew exit tools.

[Browning]

JShirley : Looks interesting. How long is it?

I took mine out and it measured 8 and 1/2 inches exactly in total length.

Oops, someone already answered this question.

I didn't see that until now.

[pbhome71]

The breach bar looks good. Especially for only $12.00. Thanks for your pointer.

[Soap]

Personally, I have a lock picking kit called the "Stanley FUBAR":

http://www.stanleyfubar.com/

[Browning]

pbhome71 : The breach bar looks good. Especially for only $12.00. Thanks for your pointer.

No problem, my pleasure.

I really like mine, plus I like little projects where you can improve and customize your own tools.

Even it's something as simple as just weaving a para-cord handle.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That Stanely Fubar also looks like it would be pretty handy to have around.

Does that opening adjust like a crescent wrench? Or is it fixed in one place?

[Ed4032]

I'm with PAX. Let's not tell him where to get one, let's send him one or two.

Hey I want in on this too.

[Soap]

Does that opening adjust like a crescent wrench? Or is it fixed in one place?

It is fixed in place for strength. It is intended to be used to straighten 2" boards but it does pretty well in helping the tool just smash things.

HA! I just checked Stanley's website and they've already adapted the FUBAR to a forced entry role: http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?TYPE=CATEGORY&CATEGORY=NEW%5FPROD%5FDEMOLITION

[JShirley]

I'd love to contribute, but we need to find a place that actually has ti prybars in stock Al said he didn't know where to find any, and now I understand.

I called the company with the most promising (http://www.materials.com/Titanium_tools.HTML#Order) ti pry/crowbar I'd seen. The gentleman I spoke with said that ti was hard to find and expensive, now- and that the last he'd had sold for $175/each!!!

John

[pbhome71]

John,

The closest I can find is the Boker Magnum Ti-Mariner Dive knife.

8" overall, 4" blade w/ blunt tip.

Would you think this will work?

-Pat

PS: I looked at it more and it does not seem to be suitable for prying.... :(

[JShirley]

...and it would need to be at least strong enough to pry open a badly jammed/mangled door...

Are there any steel bars that are light enough to be easily carried in a ruck, but still strong enough for this?

[ArfinGreebly]

John, is 18 inches going to be enough for the leverage he'll need?

And if we go longer, like 21-24 inches, will it be practical to carry?

I've done a small amount of demolition (new kitchen couple years back) with pry bars, and the difference in leverage you get from a few inches is surprising.

Of course, length affects weight; weight and length together have practical limits.

So . . . is 18 inches ideal, or just a practical upper bound?

[JShirley]

I would think 24" would probably be the uppermost limit, with 21" probably being preferable.

[leadcounsel]

Browning said: I took mine out and it measured 8 and 1/2 inches exactly in total length.

[Browning]

What can I say, I did say that. Maybe that's why the ladies love me. :D

[Don Gwinn]

Yeah, OK, but if Al asked for an 18" tool, I wouldn't want to take the chance that he has a specific reason for the size he wants. I'd at least ask him. If he asks for a tool "about 18" long" and we ship him a 21" tool that won't fit in the kit he wants to carry, we're going to feel dumb.

Longer lengths do give more leverage, but shorter lengths give range of motion in small spaces. I'm demolishing a bathroom with Rube-Goldberg plumbing right now, and often the big 'ol crowbar gives way to the smaller catspaw simply because the catspaw can be levered in the small space and the crowbar can't.

[JShirley]

Al said he was having a difficult time finding one in stock.

Does anyone have any solid leads on where they can be purchased?

John

[Tirod]

IIRC The Sportsman's Guide section known as HQ's used to have some imported from Russia.

In the event Ti can't be found - and from field reports most don't have a Ti bar, I would suggest the Estwing forged. Lightweight, durable, and available, I got one under the Dasco brand, 18", with an I-beam cross section.

Stanley recently intro'd a 30" FUBAR for EMT/First Reponders, which looks the part.

[Funderb]

titanium crowbar=broken get steel.