Michigan-HB4490-repeal of gun registration


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38snapcaps
April 7, 2008, 07:01 PM
All Michigan gun owners, or those thinking about owning a handgun.

Please go to NRAILA.org for information on where to write/call committe members that are considering elminating the "safety inspection" requirement for handgun ownership. The hearing for this bill is next Tuesday the 15th.

The safety inspection isn't one, it's a thinly veiled gun registration so the State can have a record of who has what. We all know from history what a government can and will do with such lists. Ask any German who lived in the 1930's and 1940's, especially if he is Jewish.

Thanks in advance to everyone that pitches in.

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MrAnteater
April 8, 2008, 02:31 PM
The Michigan "Safety Inspection" is just code for "Handgun Registration".

It's such a joke and I'm glad they are trying to do away with it.

langenc
April 9, 2008, 02:03 PM
This is not "doing away with it" but streamlining it--yuk..

When a gun (hand) is purchased it needs to be "inspected" by the local police agency. It is just a waste of time-that is the part that is suggested to be eliminated.

Purchase requires a 3 part form-buyer gets one-seller gets one and the seller sends the third in to State police for registration. No changes suggested here, unfortunately. Then the inspection is required but is now being suggested to be eliminated.

The first one I took for 'inspection' was a K22. I passed it thru the little window to the officer. Couple minutes go by and pretty soome he is asking "how many shot is it?" The 'inspection form' now has a statement that says something that to the effect 'mechanical function has not been checked'.

If your in Mi tell your state rep and senator we want the whole thing discarded.

Geno
April 9, 2008, 02:14 PM
During the last "safety inspection" I had, the person entered my Colt 1911A1, Series 80 Commander model as either 15 or 13 rounds. Needless to say, the cards had to be re-printed. :D

Juna
April 14, 2008, 08:03 PM
I've e-mailed everyone on the committee reviewing that bill. It's LONG overdue and blatantly deceitful to suggest that any sort of "safety inspection" is being done. Last time I went, the woman had the computer turned, and the screen openly labeled it as a registration. If some ignorant, new firearm owner bought an unsafe firearm and brought it to one of these government morons trusting that they'd performed a "safety inspection," he/she could be injured or killed.

It's unsafe. It violates our privacy. It's deceitful. It wastes our tax dollars. No evidence-based study has ever shown that it has reduced violent crime rates. How many more reasons do we need to repeal this horrible procedure?

PAULREVERE
April 14, 2008, 08:15 PM
This whole "green card" safety inspection has been a joke for years. Nothing more than covert registration. Plus, I get to make a lovely trip to beautiful downtown Flint every time I buy a handgun because my hometown Police dont do it. Time to go bye bye.

langenc
April 17, 2008, 07:53 PM
The legislation will NOT do away with regisration-only the dumb inspection.

At the time of purchase a record will still be sent to MSP for the registration.

This passed one part of the legislature and now heads for the other.

ChopperKen
April 20, 2008, 11:15 AM
The last time I bought a handgun the officer told me that if I got my CCW we wouldnt have to see eachother as often.
Still have to get the inspection/registration though.
I did have a lady officer one time tell me the inspection was for my safty. She was told not to dryfire it by me.also that she didnt know enough about guns to safely handle them let alone inspect them...

Geno
April 20, 2008, 12:04 PM
About 30 pistol purchases ago, the lady who "safety-inspected" my pistol looked at me in complete astonishment and retorted, "DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY PISTOLS YOU"VE BOUGHT?!?! (Yes, I know, caps means screaming).

Trust me, she was on the verge of a breakdown. When I looked at her and said, "No", she retorted the number to me.

I calmly looked at her and responded, "Is that all?! I thought I had more!"

She summoned her "supervisor" who looked at her computer monitor and then said to her, "So?" He then looked to me and told me of the latest 3, Colts Series 70s that he had purchased. :D Ya gotta love pro-firearms police! God bless 'em is all I can say.

We really do need to get rid of "safety" inspecting, and the gun registration in Michigan. One is useless, the other unconstituional. Neither promotes safety. Both promote intrusion.

Old Fuff
April 20, 2008, 12:54 PM
In my experience the local cops keep the "safety certificates" on file even if you sell or trade the gun. So over time you can have a collection that's substantially larger then what you really own. Now that they have computers you can really mess up the database if you're circulating through a lot of guns.

I expect that Doc will get his front door kicked in any day now... :banghead:

As a side note: In Arizona, gun registration is prohibited by law. :cool:

Geno
April 20, 2008, 10:54 PM
Probably. Some technocrat will walk in, tell me:

You own too many firearms. You must be a gun-nut!

:neener:

FieroCDSP
April 21, 2008, 12:14 AM
move to Ohio. No registration, no safety checks, Shall-Issue, and our economy hasn't tanked yet. :D

Geno
April 21, 2008, 03:49 PM
Ohio...there's an idea. Wonder if there is a house for sale across from the CMP North?! :neener:

What struck me the most odd is that I told her that I actually had no where even close to 30 pistols, in fact, not even half. I had sold all of my Kimbers, etc, and had sold them to FFLs. I even removed my wallet and showed her exactly what I did own (green cards). To which she responded,

You should never carry those! That's your proof you own it! Just make a photocopy

Perhaps she didn't know that in Michigan, the police can view through the State Police records how many pistols one owns.

The even more interesting point is that not one single other employee has ever expressed an ounce of concern. Most simply do their job, enter the information and on occasion say, "Wow, that's nice!"

This particular person is also the employee who sits behind the counter slamming the slide home and dry-firing the pistols. Wow, that gets some folks really upset.

Anyhow, they know fact-firm I own precious few pistols, none of them horridly scary, or horridly expensive. They have bigger fish-to-fry than me.

Here's the biggest kicker of all. The next time I went in, I was taking my Colt Commander. She look one look at it and exclaimed:

Now THIS is a pistol! Wow, I really like this one! You're not ever going to sell this one, are you?!

Then she gave me her business card, wrote down the hours and days that she works, and said,

Next time you need to have them inspected, you just give me a call and make sure I'm working.

Kind of hard to know how to read her. Who knows. Perhaps she is one of those folks that black pistols do scare. Or, maybe she just had a bad day. Or, maybe after seeing how seriously I take my firearms she respected that fact.

The world may never know.

freakshow10mm
April 21, 2008, 03:56 PM
I got a SP101 transferred in from a guy down state. There was no officer on duty at my village that day so I had to wait until the next day to register it.

That night my son saw me slugging the throats and tapping the rod with a hammer. I ran out of the room to get the phone and come back to my son (18mo) going Rodney King on the gun with the hammer! The crane broke.

The next day I went to the station to register it and they refused, saying it fails the safety inspection and is unsafe to fire. They typed my up a letter basically stating that I attempted to register it and the gun must be repaired before I can get it registered. I have the Pistol Sales Record from the FFL who did the transfer and they put in the letter that it is good enough to prove ownership while it's en route for factory repair (the part is a Factory Install Only part).

Geno
April 21, 2008, 04:04 PM
freakshow10mm said:

That night my son saw me slugging the throats and tapping the rod with a hammer. I ran out of the room to get the phone and come back to my son (18mo) going Rodney King on the gun with the hammer! The crane broke.

You left the room...with the firearm left out...to answer the phone...while the child had access to the firearm?! :what:

<<Doc checks to see if it's April 01>>

Not prudent.

Old Fuff
April 21, 2008, 04:04 PM
My favorite story about safety inspections happened back during the Viet Nam War era when an individual who was lusting over a S&W model 29 .44 Magnum finely got one by paying far more then MSRP. When he came to see me he was ready to explode. Seems that the "inspector" had cocked the hammer and then hit it with a hammer to see if it would stand or fall... :what:

It fell.. :cuss:

I gave him a written statement explaining the correct way to check to see if the hammer would stand at full-cock.

The police department ended up paying for repairs after he threatened a lawsuit. ;)

freakshow10mm
April 21, 2008, 04:15 PM
You left the room...with the firearm left out...to answer the phone...while the child had access to the firearm?!
Firearm was unloaded, no ammunition was anywhere nearby the gun, which was secured in a vise, and the phone was 4 steps from the bench to the hallway. It does not look like the picture you are trying to paint of me.

Geno
April 21, 2008, 09:29 PM
Not trying to paint any pictures. I can only go from what read. Glad to hear the facts of the details...seriously!

As you are around here longer, you will see posts that will raise your eyebrows. Many of those people (not you) are what were refer to as "trolls". Trolls come here and make posts that seem, well, imprudent. When I saw new person, low posts and no detail I wasn't sure.

Again, thank-you for the details.

Doc2005

freakshow10mm
April 21, 2008, 11:43 PM
I've been around, just not here. Got a referral from a user here. Same username here, Glocktalk (since 2003), Glockpost, Castboolits, TFL, 1911forum, and I go by Tubby45 on Defensive Carry.

Pretty sure BigSlick, Steve Koski, and Bush Pilot post here too. They can vouch for my character.

Jim K
April 22, 2008, 06:27 PM
I have been taken to task by a former Michigan police officer for saying this, but I was told that at least at one time, the "safety" of the gun was not nearly as important as the color of the owner. If the registrant was black, the gun was declared "unsafe" and seized. Ain't it nice the way so many "civil rights" people support that kind of thing when guns are involved!

Jim

Geno
April 22, 2008, 06:45 PM
One reasonably could assume that if one state declares firearms registration to be unconstitutional (pretty powerful statement), that all or at least most states would follow the same. I guess "reason" is where that assumption goes south.

copper4262
April 22, 2008, 08:50 PM
I am truely sorry for all you guys must go through to purchase a gun - it shouldn't matter what your reason for owning said weapon is - you should be allowed to have what ever type of weapon you want and no-one should be keeping track of you or your guns!!!

SAD!! Very SAD!!!

Now i know we all have to go through the FFL chain when buying new guns - so i guess all new guns are basically registered - but other then that I can't immagine having to tell the local police about what i buy or sell - i think its stupid and a waste of time - what good could it possibly do??? none that i can see-

Here in ND we have it pretty good - we can buy and sell guns from an FFL and thats all there is to it - or we can buy and sell to other individuals an no paperwork is required(its a good idea to keep personal records just for liability's sake, but its not required)

Here in ND we do not have to take a gun to the local police department to be inspected - we do not have records kept of our guns by the local police - how do i know?? because i work for a local police agency - we could care less what gun you buy and if it works or not(we do care if your a felon but otherwise have at it - your an American Citizen - we are here to serve you - part of that service is preserving your rights as an American) And honestly most of the rank and file cops i work with everyday are pro gun - i can think of only a handful of cops i have met in this state that are opposed to citizen gun ownership - they are by far the minority - most cops are not big gun people - but most understand the 2nd Amendment and what it means to them and to civilians - most like the guns they own and dont have a problem with people buying or selling guns - In fact - i bought a gun yesterday in the briefing room after my shift ended - (well traded for it) - no paperwork was made out - i give him some green and some motorcycle parts and he gives me - yes - a scary black gun(not sure what im gonna do with it - if anyone needs a glock 22 let me know!!) And that was it - all i have to do now is take it home and enjoy it !!

As much as I like to complain about the bad winters(yes - they do kinda suck most years) we do have it really good here in ND - great summer weather perfect for fishing - hiking - boating - biking - motorcycle trips - you name it we've got it here - not to mention there is not a whole lot of people here to mess it up - The hunting is great!!! That makes it easier for gun people - we have a large hunting population here and most all of the state understands that - I guess you could say that right now ND is a great state for Gun Owners - not to mention that with the lack of people comes alot more open space to practice with those guns -

OK - i guess im a little off topic - basically i wanted to say im sorry for the hassel you guys have to go through - im very thankful to live where i do and i would suggest if your looking for a change to look to the North - not only is our economy growing we are still very gun friendly!!!

freakshow10mm
April 23, 2008, 12:14 AM
It isn't as bad as some people make it out to be. A lot of people bitch about the purchase permit, but all it is in reality is a receipt showing you passed the background check done by the police.

In order to waive the purchase permit, get a CPL (concealed pistol license). Then you just show the dealer your CPL and do the 4473. When you register your pistol, show them your CPL, wait two minutes while they type it up, sign 3x and you're out. The longest it has taken was four minutes because I bought two pistols at the same time.

I am against the registration in principle, but in reality the only way anyone is taking any of my guns is if they kill me. That piece of paper doesn't mean crap.

Dravur
April 25, 2008, 03:32 PM
move to Ohio. No registration, no safety checks, Shall-Issue, and our economy hasn't tanked yet.

but, it's still Ohio.......

Winner of a raffle... First place: a week in Cleveland...

Second place is 2 weeks....

esq_stu
April 25, 2008, 03:53 PM
Over the years I've tried to register a couple of T/C Contender receivers and a 1911 receiver. They wouldn't do it - they need to fill in "caliber" and "barrel length" somewhere on the form. If they can't, they think there's nothing to register.

freakshow10mm
April 26, 2008, 02:35 AM
I had to pick a caliber and barrel length when I got my TC Encore frame transferred.

I live in a small village with a 5 man police department. There is not an officer on duty 24/7. I've tried for three days now to register my pistol and every time I've stopped there, no officer has been on duty. ***? I hate this stupid law.

mgregg85
April 26, 2008, 02:49 AM
The only thing I like about the stupid pistol registration is it gives me a nice little green card to carry around with me whenever I feel like keeping my sub-2000 loaded in my car.

Any cops who would otherwise bust me for carrying a loaded rifle in the vehicle are stopped when I can pull out the little green card declaring the rifle a pistol under state law.

freakshow10mm
April 26, 2008, 03:02 AM
I'm looking to get a Mini 14 folder for the same reason.

cambeul41
April 26, 2008, 07:32 AM
To return to what the change in law entails . . .

2007 House Bill 4490 (Repeal pistol “safety inspection” law )

Passed in the House (98 to 10) on April 16, 2008, to repeal the law that requires a person who acquires a pistol to present it to the local law enforcement agency for a “safety inspection;” and also to require agencies to destroy any records of past inspections, with certain exceptions. A person would still be required to obtain a license to acquire a pistol.

http://www.michiganvotes.com/2007-HB-4490

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(psrl42bbpahktzzipjkn4va2))/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=2007-hb-4490

Right Wing Wacko
April 26, 2008, 06:19 PM
Quote:
You left the room...with the firearm left out...to answer the phone...while the child had access to the firearm?!

Firearm was unloaded, no ammunition was anywhere nearby the gun, which was secured in a vise, and the phone was 4 steps from the bench to the hallway. It does not look like the picture you are trying to paint of me.
__________________

Rule #1. The gun is ALWAYS loaded

When the gun is not loaded, refer to rule #1

Geno
April 26, 2008, 07:04 PM
How puzzled is anyone else by the statement regarding destroying local records of previous purchases "...with certain exceptions..."? I suspect that there would be more exceptions, than destructions, of the previous records.

The state of Michigan would benefit from this law being the next DC equivalent.

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