.22LR AR15 options


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Alex45ACP
April 8, 2008, 07:09 AM
With the price of 5.56/.223 skyrocketing, I am interested in switching to .22LR for training with my AR15.

I have seen the conversion kits such as those made by Ciener and CZ but have not heard good things about accuracy, reliability, and I've also heard that Ciener's customer service is terrible.

I've also seen that Spike's Tactical makes a complete .22LR upper but it's pricey (would pay for itself in the long run though).

Are there any other options I should be aware of?

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ArmedBear
April 8, 2008, 01:58 PM
Model 1 Sales has a complete line of uppers, starting at $475.

I got the 16" heavy barrel A2 CAR upper and so far, I'm loving it. Works very well. They have many other options available, including bull and HBAR 20" barrels, fluted HBARs, M4-style in 16", various SBR/pistol uppers, etc.

http://www.model1sales.com/subcats.cfm?Category=15&sessionid=

Note that the barrel extends farther into the receiver than a standard centerfire barrel, so that the OAL and appearance of a 16" is similar to a 14.5" carbine.

mp510
April 8, 2008, 02:08 PM
have not heard good things about accuracy,
My Colt Conversion kit teamed up with my Bushy 20" 1:9 HBAR upper and a detachable carry handle is capable of dime size 5 shot groups at 50 feet.

reliability,
With my Colt I've never had a failure. Except a couple misfires (I verified later that it was the ammo and not firing mechanism).

I do know somebody with a CZ upper that regularly fires out of battery (the bolt doesn't close all the way)- he intends on possibly getting rid of it and going back to a Ceiner kit. He's had very decent reliability with his ceiner kit.

1 brick of .22 ammo to pay off a kit. 2 to 3 bricks to pacy off an upper- (15 .22LR= 1 5.56 round)

ArmedBear
April 8, 2008, 02:37 PM
Note that the Model 1 and Spike's Tactical uppers use the Ciener bolt. They do not use the chamber adapter from Ciener, since they use a barrel with a .22LR chamber (also no gas port to foul up, and a bore and rifling designed for .22LR).

This is what's in the receiver of the dedicated .22LR uppers:
http://www.model1sales.com/images/22lrmconvk.gif

This is the Ciener kit for a 5.56 upper:
http://www.model1sales.com/images/22lrconvk.gif

Note the difference in the chamber end between a .22LR dedicated barrel:
http://www.model1sales.com/images/22LRcarbar.gif

and the equivalent 5.56 barrel:
http://www.model1sales.com/images/bar16.gif

Bazooka Joe71
April 8, 2008, 02:47 PM
I beat you to it! (http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=353944):p

Kitchen_Duty
April 8, 2008, 04:07 PM
I know you are asking about ar-15 22's but always keep this idea in the back of your mind:

take a ruger 10-22
add tech sights tech sights (http://www.tech-sights.com/)
add an extend mag release
add sling mounts
add 30 round magazines

Then you have an ar-15 trainer, about the same cost but a lot lighter and lot less finicky in my opinion.

Ghost Tracker
April 8, 2008, 04:23 PM
I agree with Kitchen Duty (above). Rather than trying to convert an AR into a rimfire (for ~$400), just go buy a used (~$150) Ruger 10/22 & build it up to as close to the AR configuration as you think you need. Rifle skills are rifle skills...and you'll end-up having TWO rifles that way.

El Tejon
April 8, 2008, 04:26 PM
Anyone have the Model 1 Sales .22?

ArmedBear
April 8, 2008, 04:35 PM
Yes. See above. I like it.

See also this thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=353944 and this one http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=351140 for more about mine, the ammo it likes, etc.

It prefers ammo with some "oomph" but given that you're feeding it HV rounds, it's less finicky about ammo than most semiauto .22 rifles.

Also, I'm not shy about saying that I think the 10/22 is junk. I sold mine in disgust. So if the Model 1 was frustrating, believe me, I'd say so. I've had to clear it a few times, but that was just when I shot a brick of cheap, dirty, unplated lead ammo through it -- stuff that most rifles won't digest. My 10/22 wouldn't feed a clip of it.

El Tejon
April 8, 2008, 04:47 PM
Thanks, Bear.:)

Ghost Tracker
April 8, 2008, 05:02 PM
"Also, I'm not shy about saying that I think the 10/22 is junk"

Hey Bear,
No thread hi-jack here, but while a 10/22 won't run with my Anschutz or Vorquartsen, you're the first person I've ever heard call them junk. Do you feel the same way about a G19, a 1911 or Model 94?...'Cause a zillion folks (okay, slight exaggeration) have sent untold zillions of rounds downrange with a slightly different opinion of Ruger's rimfire carbine.
;)

ArmedBear
April 8, 2008, 05:08 PM
G19's, 1911's and 1894's can generally get through a magazine without choking.

The Ruger can do that, sometimes, with the right ammo, if it's clean. If you put the right aftermarket parts in it. And the standard model has nowhere near the accuracy of a base Model 60 which these days is nearly 100 bucks cheaper. It has nicer sights than the cheapest Marlin.

My 10/22 was a frustrating piece of junk. Truly junk. Some others work better, or their owners are more tolerant. There are other guns in the world; I don't see a need to pour money into a 10/22, even though I seem willing to pour it into lever guns or a .22LR AR. Go figure.:)

Now I do have a friend with a very reliable base-model 10/22. It's really old; it still has walnut stock and a receiver finish that's something besides paint. My guess is, Ruger got sloppy. Raised their prices over and over again, while dropping the quality.

ScottsGT
April 8, 2008, 05:18 PM
Spikes is also coming out with a chamber adaptor to use in a stock AR15 made for .223, just like the Ceiner but plated for reliability. I've got a spikes dedicated on order now since Feb.

Ghost Tracker
April 8, 2008, 05:18 PM
Thanks, just askin' (I had 10/22 about 15 years ago, ran just fine).

ArmedBear
April 8, 2008, 05:21 PM
(I had 10/22 about 15 years ago, ran just fine).

Yeah, I think Ruger may have caught a case of Remingtonitis. Maybe they got over it again, but I'm over wanting to find out, too.:)

ArmedBear
April 8, 2008, 05:22 PM
BTW I ordered my Model 1 upper on 3/25 in the afternoon, and received it on 4/4.

cracked butt
April 8, 2008, 05:43 PM
Weird. For a year or so I've been lusting over a .458 socom upper, but now I'm finding a .22lr upper more appealing, and that's with the fact that I already own several .22s. That whole price-of-ammo thing sure changes perceptions. If things keep going the way they are, I might end up having to save the empty .22 casings to swage jacketed bullets from.

CWL
April 8, 2008, 06:28 PM
I have a Ciener conversion for one of my M4geries. Nothing's gone wrong with it so I don't need their customer service.

It makes a fun plinker that I can take to local indoor ranges and punch paper with. Accurate enough out to 25 yards, with or w/o the holoscope. Just need to clean out the gas tube of lead fouling.

This config. is nice and tame for CA which is where I live. The 'real' bolt and mags are handy.

I really wouldn't consider it realistic 'training' though since accuracy, noise and recoil are not the same.

cracked butt
April 8, 2008, 06:44 PM
Q?

If just using a conversion kit, what is involved with cleaning the gas tube?

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