[zulu6]

So I just took delivery of my new Smith & Wesson M&P .40 and thought I’d offer some impressions. I bought it from Bud’s for $439 shipped. With the current Smith rebate of $50 that means a new .40 with four hi-capacity magazines for $389 plus a $20 transfer. Not bad.

The M&P is the latest effort from Smith & Wesson into the combat handgun market. As a combat handgun, especially of the striker fired polymer breed, any look at it for me necessarily draws comparison to the Glock. This is for good reason. First, when you open up a gun like the M&P you can easily see design elements that have plainly evolved from the Glock. Gaston figured out how to do it well and everyone else has followed his lead. Also, it seems to me, no one so far has out-glocked Glock for what a Glock is built to do. I carry one every day, for a living, and personally own two others. I can attest to their worry free, no nonsense, durable, sure as the sun will rise reliability that they bring to the show. With religious loyalty, I believe in them as fighting weapons. I like Glocks a lot.

All that said, I think Smith has done something very important with its new pistol. It has addressed some of the details that I have always wished that Glock would work on. It offers lots of things that I like and very little that i don't.

The first and most important difference is the grip and feeling of the weapon in my hand. I never thought the Glock felt bad but after handling the M&P extensively over the last couple of days my trusty and familiar 2nd generation Model 22 feels like a new bar of Ivory soap, not uncomfortable but not like it was custom made for my hand either. The M&P does. It’s slimmer and sculpted with the human hand obviously in mind. It’s three interchangeable backstraps allows a shooter to custom fit the grip to his palm. It also has a pronounced beavertail that I found comfortably wrapped around the web of my hand providing a welcome additional leverage point against recoil and the gun’s cycling forces. The grip surface texture also affords a much better lock against my skin than does that of the Glock. I never liked having to put additional sleeves or tapes on my 22 just to keep it from being slippery. The M&P easily bests the Glock in hand fit, feel, and grip.

On my Glock 22 I have the factory installed metal tritium night sights. They work well and are well made but they are an option on that gun and as such they add expense. The standard Glock sights are an awful plastic imitation of combat sights. They are hard to use and mar easily in real world conditions.

I bought my M&P with the standard non-tritium sights. These steel Novaks are not only fantastic they are the best of any standard sight on any pistol of any brand I own. I really like these sights and wish that Glock would take a cue.

The controls on the M&P are simple and ergonomically designed. The mag release is perfectly placed for me and is very quickly reversible to the right side of the gun for lefty shooters. The slide release is also well placed and is ambidextrous but I found it to be a little tough to engage. This is partially because the gun is so new and partially because my thumb could not get quite enough purchase on the tab. The extended Glock slide release that I installed on my 22 is much easier to use but cannot be switched for a lefty.

The trigger on the M&P is quite good. It does have a negligibly bumpy and slightly creepy take-up but the break is not bad for a striker fired gun and is light-years better than the terrible trigger on the older Sigmas. Its also much better than that of Ruger’s new SR9 which I found to be mushy and gritty. The reset is a little difficult to feel on the M&P until you’ve fired the gun a bit and gotten accustomed to it. I do like the Glock trigger better but Smith has done very, very well here.

A couple of other small details that I also liked were:

The cocking serrations. On first glance I did not especially like the look of the scalloped serrations but with use I found that they provided a better bite for my fingers than do the Glock’s.

The safeties-actually the lack of them. There are no external safeties on the M&P 40, a condition I very much like on a fighting pistol. I have also become irritated with Smith’s use of internal locks and magazine disconnects on their handguns. The M&P is no different except that they are available as options. If you don’t want a mag disconnect, don’t get it. Likewise, if you don’t want an internal lock, don’t get it. My M&P has neither and I like it that way. Giving the end user the choice is a good business model and I hope other makers will follow the example.

The coated stainless steel slide is a very nice touch and unexpected for under $400.

The good fit and perfect finish, the metal guide rod, the very well made magazines, and the substantial looking claw extractor lend the M&P a high quality look and feel. I also like the unobtrusive loaded chamber peep hole. I dislike having an additional, usually red painted, moving post or bar telling me that the gun is loaded. I don’t mind however looking into a hole and seeing the shine of the case through it. This is a really innovative idea.

Shooting impressions were also very good. The weapon is dead on accurate. Felt recoil was no problem at all and, did I say, damn this thing feels good in the hand. Reliability was flawless with 200 rounds of ball. The alignment of the top round in the mag is so well placed that feeding should never be an issue. Also, this gun sits low in the hand, much like a Glock. I have never favored the height of the HK USP or the Sig P pistols in my hand. The M&P is just about right.

Now for what I don’t like. Really its only one thing but I really hate it. Its the M&P’s takedown procedure. Smith’s bow to the nanny state can be found here. In order to take the weapon apart one is expected to remove the takedown tool from the backstrap (which doubles as a lock for the interchangeable grip panel), lock the slide to the rear, turn a takedown lever similar to that of a Sig, and then using the tool from the backstrap flip a sear disconnect lever inside the mag well just below the chamber. I found that with some marked discomfort (since the lever is obstructed by the rather sharp ejector) I could use my finger instead but it was difficult. After all that, the slide then comes off normally.

It is the intent here I suppose to have the user fish around inside the chamber in order to force a verification that the weapon is unloaded. I get it but I don’t like it. A pistol is a dangerous device, its supposed to be. I don’t like compulsory extra steps like this that try to make my world safe for three-year-olds. I especially don’t like having to use a tool to perform the extra step. That little lever also adds another potential failure point and that’s just not acceptable for a combat weapon. Besides, if a lever inside the chamber is necessary (which its not), I think that the same safety function could have been engineered in by making the lever accessible to my finger.

I also did not like the “CAUTION: CAPABLE OF FIRING WITH MAGAZINE REMOVED” printed on the side of my pistol. I know that Smith has used these mag disconnects in the past but when I opt out I don’t need warnings pasted all over my gun like the airbag alert on my car’s sun visor.

Aside from that I have no other major complaints but I will offer a few final observations.

Both the M&P and the Glock have a trigger safety. The Glock does it with a lever that is depressed by the trigger finger while the Smith uses a two-pieced hinged trigger that when depressed, straightens slightly and allows the trigger to move and the weapon be fired. In all my years carrying Glocks I have not seen a trigger safety break and Smith’s design might well prove to be just as durable. On the Glock however, if this lever were to fracture or fail the default is a functioning trigger. If the Smith’s were to break you’d have no trigger at all, or at least nothing particularly functional as one.

The interchangeable grips, as mentioned above, really made for a great custom grip on the M&P. However, on a fighting pistol I do prefer Glock’s simple one piece design even if its not as comfortable. The Smith feels so good in the hand but under the worst conditions and circumstances less parts to break is less parts to break and maybe a single piece, well sculpted grip would be a better answer.

So, has Smith & Wesson out-glocked Glock? Nope. Glock still stands in my mind as a real fighting pistol with a short learning curve and rock solid durability that’s proven to be perfectly suited for a fight. The Glock is also wonderfully matched, for lots of reasons, as service issue hardware to cops and warriors alike. That said, I like the Smith an awful lot, I mean a lot, maybe even more than the Glock. This is probably subjective more than objective and I would never be sorry to have either with me in a scrap but it will be the Smith that goes with me to the range most often. Get one.

[CPshooter]

Nice post! I'd agree with most of that.

[xring44]

First, I'm getting seriously long of tooth, change don't come easy for me. I don't own any "plastic" pistols. I read the reviews, I handle the poly pistols, I find myself agreeing with some on the "feel" of the pistol in my hand. Not a 1911, but they do feel right at home in my paw.

I may have to try the M&P. If I decide to buy one, especially with the rebate offer available from S&W, I'll let ya'll know my humble opinion after a few hunderd rounds.

That was a great comparison, and well written review.

[zulu6]

Try it sir. You too will be a fan of it I think.

[Navy87Guy]

I bought an M&P 9 Compact last month for my new CCW gun. I liked it so much that I ordered a full-sized M&P 9 to try for USPSA competion (potentially to replace my CZ SP-01). When the M&P .45 Compact comes out, it may just find its way into the collection (the 9C can go to the wife for her carry).

I definitely think S&W has a winner!

Jim

[FieroCDSP]

Really its only one thing but I really hate it. Its the M&P’s takedown procedure. Smith’s bow to the nanny state can be found here.
Actually, government intervention was not involved. The sear-disconnect was specificly requested by the design group and designed to prevent mishaps like those from trying to disassemble a Glock without checking the chamber.

A pistol is a dangerous device, its supposed to be. I don’t like compulsory extra steps like this that try to make my world safe for three-year-olds.
I can't envision a combat scenario where you'd be disassembling your gun in a hurry, so I'm going to say that IMHO such a lax view on safety isn't healthy. If you aren't willing to spend the extra couple of seconds to flip a lever because you feel it's for little kids and people lax on safety, you might be one of those people that could expect an ND someday as a result of this specific idea.
I personally feel a lot better that I have to check and clear the chamber just to take it down. It's not a matter of time, as I'm not rushing in anything involving my guns. The fact it's required results in habit that you clear the gun and lock the slide back before tearing down any gun. I don't see how you could be offended that this results in more safety.

That little lever also adds another potential failure point and that’s just not acceptable for a combat weapon.
I have been on the M&P forum for almost two years and have never heard of any failure or inadvertant activation of the sear-disconnect. Further, if you disassemble the sear block, you'll see how simple the thing really is. Simple often results in reliability.
For a suggestion to avoid using the tool, keep a clickable ball-point pen in the range bag. The pen's tip is perfect for getting a grip on the lever and removes the fuss of removing the take-down tool.

[jocko]

Mine has been at Dave Bowie tactical for 3.5 months getting some serious mods to it. It should be back home here very soon. I loved it enough to spend the extra bucks with Bowie tactical. Won't be my carry gun, still to big but it will be my range gun and bedside gun for sure.

great gun, Smith now needs to come out with a sub liteweight 9mm pocket gun in the 12 to 14 ounce category,that goes bang every time..

[goon]

You can also disassemble the M&P by pulling the trigger like a Glock.
I don't know if it's recommended but I accidentally got stuck on the Glock channel one day taking my M&P apart.
Worked fine.

As far as the sear disconnect lever...
Some people are idiots but they can still pass a background check.
Can't blame S&W for trying to idiot proof their guns.

[blkbrd666]

I bought the M&P in 9mm at a gun show for 4 bills...the $50 rebate and two extra mags sold me on my first plastic handgun(I generally like metal and preferably stainless). Well, after getting it home and holding/shooting it, I wish I had bought 2 or 3 of them...just in case I wear one out. It IS the most comfortable handgun I own...those grip panels feel like some mix of rubber and plastic and stay in place in the palm of your hand whether it's wet or dry. I was getting 1 feed jam about every other mag for the first 150 rounds on my first trip to the range...second trip there wasn't a single problem. It could have been due to any of 3 things: 1) Didn't clean the gun before first trip 2) Was using bulk ammo from a French company that seems inconsistent in the charge. 3) It may just have needed a break-in. Anyway, I love the gun and really didn't think I could ever like plastic. I rotated between the M&P, Glock, and Sig (all 3 plastic) at the range and I like the M&P best. As for the silly safety warning on the side about firing with mag removed...the S&W 1911 I bought myself for Christmas has it too...I hate it! In the past I have always been a Beretta fan...bought a Px4 last week and guess what...it's on their guns now too...I think it's the new "gun disease". A note: I know I won't like my new Px4 as much as the M&P even though they also include 3 interchangeable grip panels with the new gun. Their panels are the harder plastic and do not grip as well. They do throw in a plastic speed loader to help depress the mag spring when you reload...will be nice at the range table. There's also a nice little Beretta "shot glass" included in the box...not sure what it's for unless you're supposed to put parts in it when you disassemble the gun???

[jdh]

Small point of contention. The lever is not in the chamber. It is in the mag well.

Because of its location it is not possible for it to be activated "inadvertantly". When you insert a magazine the body of the mag will push the lever back in place and hold it there.

The M&P is not the only striker fired pistol to correct the design flaw of the glock and require you to deactivate the sear to dissamble the pistol.

Now a question for you Glock types. How to you take the slide off the frame when when you can't pull the trigger? The sear deactivation lever makes this easy for the M&P user.

[HoosierQ]

I have the M&P 45. The takedown tool is pretty hard to get out but why bother? The sear deactivation lever is quite accessible to any small, thin object like the blade of a pocket knife, a paper clip, a car key, or even a stick. I have a piece of thick copper wire that I have bent into a little tool that I use when I clean it.

When I originally read that the M&P required a "tool" for takedown, I was more than a bit put off. However, when I discovered just what this "tool" was I thought no more about it.

Mine has the manual thumb safety which seems well executed. I am somewhat on the fence about it but that's how it came. Everything I have read indicates that it is easy to remove...or put back in for that matter. We'll see.

[thegooch]

You don't need any tool to take it apart. Drop the mag, clear the chamber, with the slide back flip down the takedown lever...pull trigger and done.

[MarcusWendt]

I have the M&P 45. The takedown tool is pretty hard to get out but why bother? The sear deactivation lever is quite accessible to any small, thin object like the blade of a pocket knife, a paper clip, a car key, or even a stick. I have a piece of thick copper wire that I have bent into a little tool that I use when I clean it.

I agree. I have yet to use the "tool".

For me the two major things that set this weapon apart and above from the Glock are the feel of the gun in your hand AND the accuracy.

For me, these aren't small improvements, they are huge based on my experience with Glock.

Had Glock made a better feeling gun that was as accurate as the M&P, I would be a Glock lover today.

I suppose the two issues could be related for me. Maybe I don't shoot as accurately with the Glock and I do with the M&P because I can't get the proper grip on it?

Despite the similarities, these two firearms are worlds apart to me.

[Navy87Guy]

I don't mind the sear disconnect -- I just wish they made it a little easier to manipulate like on my Ruger P93. It would be nice to be able to move it (easily!) with my finger instead of requiring a tool. Maybe it will wear in over time, but right now (300 rds) it's too stiff to do with just my finger (very painful!)

Jim

[hankdatank1362]

Well, I think they're kinda ugly.

But...

I picked one up the other day for the first time...

It was easily the MOST COMFORTABLE handgun I have ever handled. I don't know which size backstrap was on it, but it felt like an extension of my own hand.

I mean very, very comfortable.

I still can't get past it's aesthetics, but if you aren't as image-obsessed as I am (or actually like the way they look) I suggest handling one. Heck, the price sure is right!

[zulu6]

FieroCDSP:

I didn’t mean to say that government intervention was involved. Its Smith freely kowtowing to the nanny types, the same kowtowing that brought us those horrible locks on their beautiful revolvers that had worked fine for generations without them, thank you very much.

I don’t think that safety practices and not wanting extra levers and tools are mutually exclusive. Why all of a sudden are the disassembly procedures of Glock’s, HK’s, Sig’s, Kahr’s, Beretta’s and others not safe enough? I’m just saying, it’s a gun and I’m an adult. I can take the responsibility of insuring my weapon is safe and unloaded prior to takedown like I have for my Glock over the last 10 years. I am not offended by safety. I’m offended by not being trusted to be safe. Besides, if you want the little lever job fine. Just make it accessible to my finger.

I agree that this is probably not going to be a failure point of the weapon but why add parts and complexity? Simplicity does often result in reliability so…make it simple…no extra levers.

[FieroCDSP]

For the record, I'm firmly against an integral trigger lock, particularly on the Smith revolvers. I'm not a wheel-gun guy, but I have been looking at some lately and the idea of "The Lock", especially with the record that Smith's Revolvers seem to have with them, proves that some things are better left alone.

Maybe I was a bit harsh in my wording. Sorry :o. My point was that the Smith design team was opting to design in a feature which could help prevent some of those nasty mishaps, which we know occur even to experienced gun handlers. "If even one life is saved", and all that.
An extra bit of safety can be a fairly strong selling point(which Smith needed in the market to get it off the ground), which I have witnessed first-hand with the M&P. With so many more new shooters, some who have only a slight idea what they're looking for in a gun, a safer take-down method is more of a reassurance than a crutch. The lever is not meant to be a bypass to the four rules.
If you look at it in the same way as you would the decocking buttons or levers, you can see what the idea is about. You wouldn't decock a gun with it pointed at someone, nor should you pull the trigger, be it in jest or to disassemble, pointed at anyone. Basic rule we all know, but smeg happens, even if you take every precaution, and even if you're following the four rules. Someone can stray in the way suddenly, etc.

Anyway, I didn't intend to offend or start a commotion. I like the M&P, some might not. Thank God we have a choice in something in this day and age.

[zulu6]

I agree hank, it takes holding the M&P to love it.

[MT GUNNY]

I have the 40 and the 45 ,
You dont have to manipulate the disconnect lever, pull the trigger like the glock! (please follow safety procedure Make shure chamber is empty!)

[zulu6]

Lucas, thanks.

I just tried it and it worked. I still don’t like that the disconnect lever is there but you and goon just killed my biggest complaint about the M&P.

[dhoomonyou]

thanks for taking the time to write it up.
great post.

[texagun]

Excellent and thoughtful review. I've had an MP40 for a year now and your review reflects my thoughts on this excellent gun exactly.

[zulu6]

Went shooting again today with the M&P, this time after a thorough cleaning and lubrication. The trigger and action are quite smooth. I am so far really impressed with this pistol.

[gc70]

Good review, zulu6.

I am an all-steel gun guy at heart. My son tried for years to convert me (Glock, Sw99, SigPro, Steyr, XD) to no avail. Then he brought a M&P to the range and by the next trip to the range I had my own M&P. They are impressive guns.

[Nail Shooter]

I, like blkbrd666, have a gun that malfunctioned out of the box (an M&P40c). It kept locking the slide back leaving the last round in the mag. This is NOT a shooter induced malf. Have maybe 300rds thru it now. Last box it had zero malf's. Maybe it will run 100% now. None of my many Glocks has EVER malf'd--even when new and tight. Not sure that I can trust this gun yet or ever as a defensive weapon. The full sized M&P's are not apt to have this problem from what I've read. Almost wish I'd bought the G27 instead.

Nail

[FieroCDSP]

Nail Shooter, the earlier compacts had that (and a few other) issues. I've heard fewer (to almost none) complaints the past six months or so. If it concerns you (it would me) call Smith and ship it in for a work over. Then again, if it seems to have fixed itself, them maybe all those guys that sent them in for the lock-open problem merely needed the snot shot out of their gun at the factory to fix it. I'd like to be the guy that gets that job.

If it's a recent poduction (as of August last year) I'd definitely call and have them pay to have it sent in. The lock back problem was supposed to be fixed.

[Nail Shooter]

FieroCDSP, the envelope with the spent cases is dated Jan of 2008. It also has the red slide stop spring which, from what I've read, is supposed to be the heavier one.

I bought the gun upon recommendations from gun stores with rental M&P's. Both of the high volume shops said theirs all ran perfect.

I was on the verge of calling Smith (might still) and then had a perfect outing with it. I want to like this gun and agree with the other posters about the feel and ergos being just about perfect. Trigger isn't too bad either. Regards,

Nail

[bmargolis]

Nice post Zulu6 -

I had very similar experiences when first trying the M&P 40. I purchased one used, but really almost new. It would not feed properly so I drove it up to S&W and not only did they fix it perfectly, but they added night sights for free and gave me another 15 rd. magazine.

I liked it so much, I purchased a compact 40 and a full size 9mm as well. They both shoot so well, that I sold my 13 year old Glock 23, which had been carried daily almost all of that time. I also sold my two HK's that I was not shooting. All in all, I sold 5 pistols and replaced them with three. (could have been two, but I really wanted the 9mm too!)

I just recently was at Front Sight and did their 4-day defensive handgun course and the M&P performed flawlessly.

Had Glock continued to evolve their handguns, I may have never have looked at the M&P's. Too bad for them, market share will continue to erode until they begin to engineer upgraded product.

[Bongo45]

I think that you will be pleased with the M&P. They seem to work great and if nothing else, they are better looking than a Glock or XD.

[boomstik45]

There have been problems with the compact .40s and 9mms, but they may have been worked out.

The .40 version has been one of the best .40 autos I've ever fired. And I've fired quite a few. The .45 version is nice. Nicer than a Sig 220? Nope. About on par with a Glock 21 (although with less capacity and slightly more perceived recoil). The M&P is a great gun. It's one of the first where I've liked the .40 version better than the .45. :confused: But hey....

[Black Adder LXX]

Nice review. I love my 9c. The takedown was a little disappointing (until I discovered the flat tip :) ), but to have a fully ambidextrous pistol makes up for it in this lefty's right mind...

[berkbw]

My turn? BTW, Nice thread. I am a LONG time 1911 guy. I'm OLD, I HATED the concept of Tupperware, OK?

I have grown to appreciate Glocks after reading M&P guys, and then G-guys. I just hope that the M&P series exhibits the lifetime reliability that the Gs do. Time will tell.

I have an M&P45/4.5". I love it. lower recoil, feeds anything, feels like the Gun Gods made it for my hand.

What really makes the plastic M&P a dream to shoot - it is REALLY easy to quickly recover for a double tap - and it doesn't take a year at the range to practice. Low mass means easy to bring back to point - and less overshoot when doing so. It's EASY!.

I have never been able to do the trigger pull, and get it apart. Maybe My MPY is somehow different, but I ALWAYS carry a ball-point.. which, BTW, fits the S/R fine, and the tool DOESN'T. I shoot about 1/3 the size group with the M&P that I do with my 1911s.. probably because I'm beyond retirement :).

Anyone in Bristol , PA is welcomed to come to shoot with me - my range time is prepaid, eh? PM me.

The next thing S&W could do in perfection is to put the spring on top, barrel on bottom,

Thx for reading

[RON in PA]

My M&P experience:

I have two, a M&P40 and a M&P9. The 40 is from the first 10,000 made and the 9 was made in 2007 (it has the improved slide stop, but I don't have any problems with the original design on the 40, just not as convenient).

The 40 had a few failures to feed during the first approx. 200 rounds, while the 9 had a few failures to feed of the last round in the magazine in the first three mags. After that both pistols have been 100%. The triggers have continued to improve with use, less creep. The one place that the Glock trigger is better in comparison is in the Glock's trigger reset. In fact I believe that the Glock's trigger reset is the only superior feature of the Glock. That and the lower cost of magazines.

Regarding the field stripping controversy, how come nobody ever mentions that the Ruger P series pistols have essentially the same system. I suspect that many PDs have or will buy the M&P because of its availability, as well as the options of having a mag disconnect and internal lock.

I have posted before that IMHO the M&P pistols are product improved Glocks that are far superior in ergonomics and sighting.

Perhaps the only question that remains is weather the M&Ps will have the endurance of the Glocks. Will they survive a Chuck Taylor?

[zulu6]

I've had no malfunctions so far with mine. What a great shooter. I'm considering a second one.

[Navy87Guy]

A full sized M&P 9 just joined my M&P 9C this weekend. I was very impressed (surprise, surprise!) with the comfort and accuracy. I posted some pics of my targets on my website, here: http://home.comcast.net/~navy87guy/home/mp9.html

My only complaint was that the takedown lever gets very hot -- and with my thumbs-forward grip it started to get a bit uncomfortable after about 100 rounds.

I also did some stippling on my grips for added texture for competition shooting - the stock grips were too smooth and grip tape wasn't holding up too well.

Regarding the field stripping controversy, how come nobody ever mentions that the Ruger P series pistols have essentially the same system.

Probably because with the P-series, it's easy enough to activate the sear disconnect by hand without ripping your finger. I haven't found that to be the case with my M&P's.

Jim

[Babalouie]

My son shoots his M&P40 in uspsa. About four thousand rounds through it now with out a failure. He loves it. The only problem is when we had the slide bead blasted for a matt stainless finish...it rusted in a matter of hours...don't do it...the "stainless" grade is not real stainless. We had it hard chromed. We also had a trigger job and its AMAZING how nice you can make this trigger.

I can usually get the take down lever down with my finger, sometimes I stick whatever I have close by...a pen, pencil, pocket knife. Don't let this take down lever thingy keep you from owning this fine weapon.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c255/Sven126/2SunshineState07TimStg1.jpg

[thegooch]

2200 rounds through my 9c as of yesterday with various ammo, it's gone boom every time. I can't ask for much more

[former-redberet]

I've thought the same thing about the sear disconnect. I hate that it's there. Pointless imo. I thought about "sticking it" in place. Micro welding anyone :neener:?

[Lupinus]

great gun I have the 40 and love it. Bought new on sale for an even 350.

Just cause it's been mentioned I actually got it out and tried the trigger take down and it didnt work. Locked slide back, flipped takedown lever, held trigger and released slide (by hand of course letting it ride down) no dice it stopped.

[former-redberet]

no no no...

all you do is just pull the trigger and the slide comes off (after lowering the take down lever of course)

Lock the slide to the rear, lower the slide release then release the slide. Now pull the trigger and the slide comes off. Walla! no sear deactivation bs.

(the slide has to be forward BEFORE you pull the trigger)

[zulu6]

redberet is right. let the slide come forward after flipping the take down lever THEN pull the trigger. Slide comes off - no prob. I made the same mistake when I first tried it too.

[TimboKhan]

My Ruger P90 has a lever similar to the M&P and I fail to see how it has anything to do with a nanny state. I would add that it has also never been a point of contention for the roughly 15 years I have owned it now. THe Ruger doesn't need a special tool, but having disassembled an M&P, I just really can't understand the vehement argument against it.

[zulu6]

"In March 2000, Smith & Wesson signed an agreement with the Clinton Administration in order to avoid lawsuits. The company agreed to numerous safety and design standards, as well as limits on the sale and distribution of their products."

The lever has been put there as a result. Smith and the government do not trust you to be safe enough on your own and feel that they need to protect you from your harmful behavior. This is the nanny state. Its the same kind of thinking that brought us those silly locks on Smith's beautiful revolvers (that got on fine without locks for generations).

The only devices that I need on a weapon are those that are mechanically required to make it function and take it apart. Extra liability locks and levers ruin otherwise good designs.

[goon]

Really, what is the primary complaint with the sear release?

Nanny state or not, if I were a gun manufacturer I'd do whatever I could to avoid being sued too. It keeps them in business, which is essential if they want to make guns and if we want to buy guns.

It also seems that they didn't take anything away from the design. You can still disassemble like a Glock. If you do use the release, inserting a magazine flips it back into the firing position so it's not like you're setting yourself up to have your gun malfunction.

Now the mag disconnect, those I generally despise. I bought my M&P without one and have another one ordered without it.
But S&W can't be blamed for that idea.
IIRC, the Browning Hi-Power also sported a mag disconnect from the beginning. I think it was originally added to the design to make the gun safer for soldiers who were transitioning from revolvers. Seems there was a concern that these guys would forget to check the chamber when "unloading" and accidentally shoot themselves.

The more things change...

[fastbolt]

The M&P is an attempt by S&W to get back into the police/law enforcement market, and perhaps the military market at some point.

The ability to field-strip a striker-fired pistol without having to pull the trigger in order to decock it is likely to become of interest to at least LE agencies.

The system developed by Walther for their 99 series (present in both the Anti-Stress and Quick Action models), and shared in the traditional double action versions of the SW99, seemed to attract an unexpected amount of negative feedback from the market place.

The elegantly simple system designed by S&W engineers does add an extra layer of user-involved safety, which is something rather marketable when it comes to LE sales. The sear deactivation lever's shape was changed, essentially for ease of reassembly if a user was a bit 'inattentive' regarding its position when installing the slide onto the frame after cleaning. The original one has a dog-leg curve and the current one is straight at the end.

Yes, the design used by Ruger in their P-series is easier to access with just a fingertip, but then that's likely because it incorporates the ejector as part of the plate, and the ejector is what is most easily used to move the plate into the take-down position.

The M&P magazine safety is also a surprisingly simple design. Somebody had their thinking cap on when they designed it.

I've carried S&W service pistols which have been equipped with magazine safeties since 1990 and it's never bothered me. The magazine safety in the M&P is an even simpler design and it wouldn't bother me in the least.

Of course, as with anything else in the marketplace, everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinions ... ;)

[zulu6]

Here's a pic of my M&P.

[zulu6]

So far Hydashoks, Gold Dots, Winchester Ranger SXT, standard Remington JHP, and an assortment of ball rounds have all functioned flawlessly. 100% reliability.

[varoadking]

...you feel it's for little kids and people lax on safety, you might be one of those people that could expect an ND someday as a result of this specific idea.

Unnecessary speculation...and pretty rude to boot...

[varoadking]

the M&P a high quality look

Ya had me right up until you dropped this one on us. The M&P is one butt ugly piece that looks like it was cobbled together from a number of different spare parts...

[TG13]

could this actually be the mag disconnect feature that has been somewhat disabled?? pull the mag, and the mag pulls the sear release and the pistol cannot be fired.. reinsert the mag, it trips the lever and the sear is now reengaged and able to fire..

[Dstoerm]

Ya had me right up until you dropped this one on us. The M&P is one butt ugly piece that looks like it was cobbled together from a number of different spare parts...

We have different tastes in polymer pistols, sir, as I find the M&P to be quite attractive in all possible dressings, and the "curves" in the frame and grip seem almost perfect. I simply cannot believe that no other company thought of them before S&W. The gun makers of the world must surely now see that not all polymer frames need to be ugly... I look for further refinements from other companies in the future.

-Dave

[zulu6]

I was, and still am, not overly enthralled with the M&P's looks but all that disappears when you feel it in your hand. Then it becomes quite beautiful.

[zulu6]

So, another range trip today. 50 rounds of Winchester Ranger. No so much as a hiccup and man, this gun is scary scary accurate. I've never shot this well with my duty Glock.

[Grayman]

Went to the range tonight to break in my new .45 M&P. First .45 I've owned, and I'm more than pleased with it.

After about 6 mags worth of shooting, I was as accurate with the M&P as I am with my Sig P229 .40, which is my personal standard by which all others are measured.

Very pleased indeed.

[Disaster]

The grip on the M&P is one of my favorite "feeling" grips. However, I find that I have a tendency to "thumb" it when firing. I can see a slight left to right jump of the sights when dry firing and have to work hard with my grip to reduce it.

Strangely, the thumbing doesn't seem to effect my actual accuracy. Last time, out at the range, I was hitting half dollar sized red dot stickers consistently from 21 feet.

With zero FTF's and it hitting everything I aim at I have huge confidence in it...which is good, since it is my daily carry.

[jocko]

When I first got my MP 9, I did not like the trigger system at all. very rough. I sent it to Dave Bowie and had the grip stippled and dehorned and had good novak sites put on it and the great Bowie action job. I have never shot a better weapon, not only is it deadly accurate, the gun looks great with his stippling job. This set the gun off big time and gives to me a complete different feel for the gun. But his action job saved the day. . to big for a carry gun for me but undoubtably my first choice for a range gun. I think the M & P is a very attractive polymer handgun to, being able to change backstraps is a real plus. can't knock the $50 rebate and the two free magazines either. Just IMO one well made handgun, that for me needs very little cleaning also.

[Princi]

I bought an early M&P-9 when they first came out, but haven't had a chance to shoot it much because of my frequent travels.

Having read an article on a different guide-rod, I did order one that contained multiple springs. I didn't notice the difference in muzzle flip when I shot it, but I did notice the difference watching other people shoot it.

Since I'm currently ~10,000 miles from my gun, I'm curious about something having read some posts in this thread about it being a striker-fired pistol. Can someone look inside and tell me what type of striker-fired pistol that it is? Is it a clone of the Glock design like the Ruger SR9 or is more like the Mauser rifle design like the Springfield XD? I just don't remember.

I have replaced the trigger group in both my G34 and G17L from different manufacturers, and the sear in my XD. However, I really haven't seen the need to do anything to the M&P. (The only reason I did the XD was that after the mods to the Glocks, I found that I shot them better than the XD for the first time ever. So I had to do something to lighten the pull on the XD, and now I'm back to shooting it better than the Glocks).

I really think that S&W got it right with the M&P. I once looked at a Sigma at Cabela's. The guy behind the counter racked the slide and pulled the trigger; he then racked the slide again and handed it to me. I asked permission to pull the trigger and he said: "sure". I tried to pull the trigger, but it didn't work. I handed it back to him, he pulled the trigger and it went click. He then racked the slide and handed it back to me with the instruction: "pull hard". Good Grief!!! In spite of it being on sale, and many years of training by my wife to never resist a sale, I went home without it, shaking my head.

[zulu6]

Update:

So, more than a year since I purchased my M&P and better than a thousand rounds later I have had exactly 0 problems. No misfeeds, no FTE's, no broken parts, no failures of any kind. This gun keeps right on going and does it with delightful comfort. I really like this pistol and apparently so do an increasing number of police departments. Glock had better keep an eye on the rear view mirror.

Get one soon in your preferred caliber along with a bunch of mags before our President ruins things.

[Pizzagunner]

So, when are you going to admit the obvious and declare it better than a Glock?

By your own reckoning:


The M&P is more comfortable.
It is more thoughtfully designed.
It allows the end user to determine its final trim as to certain features.
You are more accurate with it.
It hasn't bobbled mechanically.


And I'll bet two further things have been noticed by now--the backstrap hasn't come off--and even if you remove it to the bare frame the M&P is still more comfortable to grip than is a Glock.

Time to fess up.

I like my wife's M&P9, not enough to replace my 1911s or Berettas, but enough to declare it the best striker fired polygun going, especially for the reasonable price charged.

[kmbrman]

Have owned and fired both pistols. Both have their strong points. Glock has more aftermarket stuff such as barrels ,spring kits and lightened trigger disconnectors such as the 3.5 lb . but as the M&P gets more followers, I think it may match the aftermarket business products before too long. My present 9mm M&P fullsize is extremely accurate as a Poly gun and has a more comfortable grip fit. Glock needs to play some serious catch-up IMO. Now that the ammo situation is what it is ,the Dawson Precision adjustable sights have turned my 9mm into a different pistol, increasing my personal best accuracy, while being able to zero any load I can find with just a small screwdriver! Try that with the fixed sites!

[Sir_William1]

I just want to add something for the OP, I see were the take down without using the sear disconnect was addressed, his other compliant was the (will fire with mag removed) on the side of the slide, next time you buy a MP get one with the mag lock, then simple change out the mag lock with a cheap ball point pen spring, takes about 30 minutes,
My first MP had the Mag lock, which made it hard to use for IDPA, MY second MP had no mag lock, ether way I never notice the label, with over 1000 rounds down in both, not one proplem, the only thing I noticed was the 45 has a larger grip due to larger ammo, so I changed to the small grip on the 45, and the medium on the 9 both feel the same and shoot great, the 45 has a tad bit more felt recoil as it should, I Trust the MP family for any one.

[Matt3357]

I am looking at getting a 45acp in either an xd or an M&P. xd is cheaper by about 100 bucks and can shoot lead reloads. going to use it for target shooting and a nightstand gun. What does the m&p offer that the xd does not?

Matt

[M&PVolk]

The M&P and XD are fairly comparable. IMO, the XD offers more safety features and some say a better trigger. The M&P offers better ergonomics and is better looking, IMO. FWIW, I shoot my own lead reloads in my M&P and have never had an issue...it doesn't have the Glock style rifling.

[Matt3357]

Thanks for the quick reply. Next time I get a chance I will handle them and see which one points better. I was really wanting to know about the rifling mainly.

Matt

[Five-O]

Read your original post with great interest. I went to the S&W site and it says: "Certain firearm models and configurations in this section are not available to the general public." (Law Enforcement, Military and Government)
I assume you are a current LEO. Do you know if the M&P is available to the general public? I also noticed on their site that the M&P that you are referring to is now priced at $719. I assume that's MSRP. Do you remember what the retail price was when you bought yours? That's considerably more than what you paid a year ago.

[zulu6]

Five-O

I am LE but the M&P is available to everyone. I bought it at BudsGunShop.com online last year for $439 delivered. At the same time Smith had a $50 rebate going so after a few weeks of waiting to get the rebate back I was in for about $390. Not a bad deal. As of this posting, Buds price is right at $499 delivered. So like everything else these days, its gone up. Still, the M&P would be a good buy even at that price. In any event, ignore suggested retail prices given to you buy the maker, MSRP is generally crap. Actual retail value is usually much much less and can be found quite readily.

[Legasat]

Five-O

You went to the Law Enforcement, Military and Government part of the S&W website. Instead of that, just click on pistols, and the M&P's are there too.

M&P's tend to grow on you. I now have 3.

[zulu6]

Take a look....Bud's is having a sale on M&P's. $439!

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/21_39_850