[SundownRider]

Just had a thought ruminating in my head. If I went to a gun shop and told them I found a gun on the internet for X amount of dollars, shipped and transferred to me. If they can match that price I will order from them instead, today. (Assuming the gun is not in their store.)

Would I be out of line for suggesting that offer? I don't want to offend, I like my local dealer. They are about $25 more than the big guys, but they will work with you on any questions you may have. And, they sometimes have GREAT deals on used guns.

[Jorg]

I wouldn't even say that much. "Hello, I'd like to purchase this gun for $487 out the door. Can you give me that price?" If they say no, thank them for the time and leave. No need to dicker or elaborate. If they say yes, make sure to whip our your money/card right there.

[brighamr]

+1 Jorg

Asking if they'll take a specific price is not an issue... but arguing for a specific price (as I've seen some do) is not a good idea.

[dreamer56]

I'm with Jorg - great advice -

do the shopping and get the price in mind for what you want - make sure it is exactly the same package and make the ask - I have done this and walked - I have done this and bought :)-

I think human nature is to react negatively when you say "so and so has it for this price" - so even if you get the deal using that strategy the store might be a little put off with the tactic -

I have also paid the $25 extra a couple times because I want my local guy to stay in business - there is already a lack of competition in my area - so if I can help them keep going it is worth it to pay a little extra money.

[NavyLCDR]

That's right. Buying a gun is pretty similar to buying a car. You offer them what you want to pay for the gun and they take it or leave it.

I saw an AR-15 for my wife in a mil surp shop in OKC. This was in October. I went home, looked it up on the internet, it said $875. I call the owner and offer $875 (it was like $300 less than what he had tagged on it). He says he can't do it. In December, near Christmas time, he's got the same gun, this time with a red tag that says $875 and it's got a cheap red dot on it marked $50 seperately. I say, Mark, did I not offer you $875 a couple months ago? He says, I can't sell it because it's a lefty, it's Christmas, make me an offer. So I send my wife in, whose gun it is going to be anyway. She pays him $875 for the gun AND the scope!

Don't be afraid to dicker/negotiate, if they get offended then you don't want to buy from than anyone. And just like used car salesmen - who cares anyway - you are paying their paychecks.

[Essex County]

Local dealers have overhead. They have to maintain a certain profit margin to exist. I have a shop near me that is quite competitive and acomadating. For a few extra bucks, I'll give him my business. Essex

[trailgator]

Local dealers have overhead. They have to maintain a certain profit margin to exist. I have a shop near me that is quite competitive and acomadating. For a few extra bucks, I'll give him my business. Essex


I couldn't agree more. You may pay a little more initially, but a good relationship with a GOOD gun shop can actually pay off over time. Plus, I know they'll be there if I have a problem with something I buy.

[Wayne02]

They are about $25 more than the big guys, but they will work with you on any questions you may have. And, they sometimes have GREAT deals on used guns.

In my mind you just answered your own question. Only $25 more than the big guys... big guys as in Internet prices?

I wouldn't even think twice about doing business with the local guy who treats you right for only a $25 uptick on guns. The business relationship established will more than pay for the slight uptick in price over time, let alone the fact that we as a group of firearm and 2A people NEED retail storefront gun shops to stay in business for the good of our hobby and 2A efforts.

[glockman19]

IMHO YES you should always go to your local dealer/shop and allow them an opportunity to match the price. I have found they will in 90% of the cases offer it for just enough more that you will buy it from them for convenience. IF my local guy comes within 10% out the door I'l buy it from him. Many times it's just cheaper to buy on the internet because of NO Sales Taxes.

[raytracer]

As far as I'm concerned, I'll gladly pay an extra 10-15% on a firearm to keep my local shop in business. After all, it's something that I will likely own the rest of my life. What's an extra $50-100 in that perspective?

Typically, on a new gun, I'll shop around so I know what the going deal is then call my local shop. Typically, I phrase it like this: "I was looking at the Blastomatic 2000. How much can you get me one for and still make money on it?"

Now, my FFL is a straight up guy. He knows I've researched it, and found out the going discount rate is, say, $500. He'll either tell me he can match that, or that he has to get it from a jobber and the best he can do is $550, or - and this is why he's such a prince - he'll tell me he can get it for me for $475! That's happened before.

Every once in a while I'll have something used I want to transfer in, or I'll find some special CDNN or Bud's deal that there's no way he can get close to, so he happily charges me a minimal transfer fee knowing I'll give first crack again the next time.

Joe

[Tom Servo]

I don't know how pricing is in other areas, but we shave it very close on margins. We don't ask anything close to MSRP.

That said, we're about 5% more than the best prices from internet-only dealers. Every day, I have this conversation multiple times:

"$750?!? I can get that off Gunbroker for $720!"

"Is that before shipping?"

"Well, yeah..."

"So, it's really $740-760."

"Ummm..."

"Plus $20-30 for transfer from a dealer."

"...so it's, like, $790?"

"Yep. How's $750 sound out the door, and you get it today!"

"Wow! That's a deal!"

Some brick-and-mortar folks may get MSRP (or even higher), and in that case, haggle away. If the dealer's charging that much, he has wiggle room. But if a dealer's price is within $20-40 of the best internet price, it's not only extremely fair, you are saving money in the long run.

Then again, there's something to be said for supporting local businesses. That's why I'll pay a few bucks more at the local hardware store instead of Home Depot.

[ffxmike]

couldn't agree more. You may pay a little more initially, but a good relationship with a GOOD gun shop can actually pay off over time. Plus, I know they'll be there if I have a problem with something I buy.

This is 1000% accurate. I've been to a few gunshops over the years, last 2 years have pretty much been at one gunshop only. Good relationship with the guy, to the point that he calls me when some things are coming in, to see if I want it, and holds it until I can get there. I'll get emails from him letting me know when things have been ordered, if he's got unusual stuff coming from the distributor, etc.

I've had issues where I couldn't make it to the shop by the time he was closing, he stayed late. He had closed up, just unlocked to let me in so I could do my shopping. Thats worth a lot more than a few bucks on an internet transfer, to me.

[nc76]

So when you guys say out the door, do you mean "out the door"? Would that be total, icluding sales tax and all? That means the dealer would have to price the gun below the internet price to make it equal after sales tax.

Off the subject a little:

I know my two local shops are priced close to MSRP. One is in a scketchy part of town and may price things higher to try and keep the rif-raff away. I heard they do haggle a good bit. I did buy a Stoeger Cougar 8000 from them by calling and asking if they had one in stock. They did and I asked how much. He asked what I saw them going for. I said around $330.00. He said hold on a minute and came back and said "sounds good". I told him to put it aside and I went and got it the next morning.

[Brad Johnson]

Another reminder that, if they accept your offer, you buy the gun right then, right there. None of this "okay I'll think about it" crap.

You Make The Offer + They Accept = Immediate Transaction.

Brad

[Tribal]

Erik F brings up a good point:
Figure that shipping and transfer are going to be at least $50. Also, remember that your check or credit card seems to have about a 3% fee associated with it. If you know precisely what you want and its price, go to your bank and withdraw that much cash. Then if you make the offer as "I'm looking to buy a ____ for $487 in cash; can you do that?"

I do my transfers through Bob's Gun Shop, even though it's about an hour away from me. He noticed this on my license and asked me why; I told him that not only did I drive to that area every so often anyway, but that he and his store have always treated me well and, more importantly, fairly. For my part, I don't do transfers for anything he can't get himself; everything I've had come through him has been discontinued. I suspect it'd be bad form to order a pistol and then fill out the forms on top of the glass case where the one he's selling is sitting.

[SundownRider]

The plan was to buy the gun right then. If I can get the gun close to what I can find on the Internet or cheaper than what I see at Cabela's or GAT, then I do business right then. I was just wondering what kind of response I might get. I have been to other shops where they tell me I'm a liar if I can find it cheaper than what they have. They don't get any business from me even if they were selling $10 Colts.

[HungSquirrel]

And then there are the guys who mark up WASRs to $450 and act like they are doing you a favor...

[ProficientRifleman]

I would reply as follows:

Sir, we will certainly order a gun like this for you, or sell you the one we have.

Our retail price to you would be $___.__

If you prefer to buy over the internet, we will transfer the gun for you, if you want to have it shipped through our store.

Now you need to compare this price to the price you will pay over the internet, plus shipping to us, plus our transfer fee. We would recommend which ever is less expensive or more convenient for you.

[Jim K]

To me there are two big advantages in dealing with a local store. The first is that you see what you are buying. The second is that you help a dealer stay in business and you WILL need him at some time.

I recall a while back on one of the gun sites, a complaint by a guy who bought a "new" AR-15 type rifle "on the net." When the rifle came, he found that it not only wasn't new, it had been heavily used and had a part missing. The seller was not available, and his e-mail address and phone number were shut down. So the buyer was in rant mode, calling the ATF, the FBI, the CIA, the post office (even though there was no postal connection), the BBB, etc., demanding that "somebody do something."

He had said that he had "saved" a whole $40 by buying on the net, and when I asked him why he didn't just buy from the dealer, he went into the rant that the dealer charged too much and he really saved money, etc. Some fools never learn.

Jim

[buck00]

Would I be out of line for suggesting that offer? I don't want to offend, I like my local dealer.

I did this one time with a local dealer. I actually quoted a price of another store. It was a $50 difference for a Glock 30. When I mentioned this, the local dealer got all defensive and surly and began stammering that if I bought from him he would always do repair work on it, etc, whereas other places wouldn't. He kept saying- "you get service when you buy from me, you can always come back and I'll help you if it breaks! Do you think these other guys will do that, huh!??" :uhoh: That is nice and all, but we're talking about a Glock. I could throw it in a cement mixer and it would shoot fine.

If a guy has to charge a higher price to keep the electric bill paid that is his problem not yours.

I went with the lower price and never looked back. :)

[moewadle]

First, I feel it is discourteous to play that game of...."He has it 50 bucks cheaper so will you meet that price?" Probably okay to ask a dealer what his best price is or as I like to do, "Can you take any less for that gun?" However, as stated above, none of this, "I will think about it crap." If you are not ready to buy the gun then examine it and think about it before haggling.

Second, as stated, for the $25 difference it seems to me that giving the local shop that business would be better, especially as Jim Keenan pointed out, it is worth quite a bit to have a seller you can be face-to-face with and see the goods. Also, I am curious....does this $25 savings on internet take into account the shipping and the FFL fee? If I buy a gun from a local dealer here in Iowa or at a gun show in Iowa I do not have to spend $25 FFL fee and around $25 shipping.

You get the drift........however...I will ramble a bit here and say that when I hear people criticize a dealer's price on an item I think they are obnoxious and rude. Not that I am saying you have done this but it seems to be a common pastime. We are supposedly a capitalistic society. A person can price an item at any amount he/she wishes. Market conditions will determine if he/she stays in business or not. The point is...always be courteous and respectful in business dealings. A lot more flies are caught with honey than vinegar.

[RPCVYemen]

"$750?!? I can get that off Gunbroker for $720!"
"Is that before shipping?"
"Well, yeah..."
"So, it's really $740-760."
"Ummm..."
"Plus $20-30 for transfer from a dealer."
"...so it's, like, $790?"
"Yep. How's $750 sound out the door, and you get it today!"
"Wow! That's a deal!"


That has been true for me on the guns I have purchased locally - the local guy's price has always been lower (when I include shipping and FFL fees), in fact lower, even when I include sale tax.

I do have an ethical issue with buying over the Internet solely to avoid paying a sales tax. Many people (even some who want to testify to me about their eternal souls) seem to skip this one.


It is not the case that "There is no sales tax on Internet stuff!" - at least in general. Most states that have a sales tax also apply that tax, by law, to Internet sales.

It is the case that it is much harder to collect the sales tax on items purchased over the Internet.

So should I financially punish a (local) dealer because he is easily compelled to collect sales tax - by buying from a dealer who cannot be easily compelled to follow the law? So I am punishing someone for obeying the law? Is that ethical?

If I am willing to punish a local dealer for applying the law, am I allowed to whine about people that use their power/influence to compel people to break the law?

I don't know what other religions/ethical systems think about this, but as a Jew, I supposed to act ethically, and to encourage others to act ethically. In fact, I am strictly prohibited from "placing a stumbling block in front of" another person. If I punish someone who obeys the law, and reward someone who avoids the law, aren't I doing exactly that?

In fact, most laws read that I am supposed to declare those purchase and pay tax on them.

If I break the law because I can, then can I complain when someone else breaks the law because he/she can? Say a burglar or car thief?

If I sign a tax return, and don't declare those items (or pay an imputed tax in my state), haven't I just just declared the value of my word as man? How much is my integrity worth to me? $30? $40? $100?


Mike

[Mike Sr.]

""I do have an ethical issue with buying over the Internet solely to avoid paying a sales tax. ""
____________________________________________________________

I DON'T. The Nebraska tax motto is: YOU MAKE IT, WE TAKE IT!
--------------------------


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The next is a great place for finding and buying the hard to find guns that one might look for, ie. Stainless Winchesters, Winchester Big Bore levers...etc.

But when it comes to buying everyday shoot'n stuff, I buy locally; I''ve always gotten a better deal vs the net. INSPITE OF GOVERNMENT confiscatory TAX poicy.


If a local gun dealer use's his $$$ to buy what I purchased on the net , fine so be it with the tax, but if I use my money to buy a from an private party seller..NO TAX!

[Vector]

"They are about $25 more than the big guys"

What is personal service and the ability to actually see the guns worth to you? Don'y forget they typically have more overhead and need to make a living also. So while you may want to save some money, I would not nickle and dime them.

[cleardiddion]

Like everyone's been saying:
It really does pay in the end to have a good relationship with the local stores.
For example, I was able to get a Ruger 10/22 (the 16.5in barrel one) with a 3x9 scope and a case for 186 out the door, even though the it was marked at 220 on the tag and goes for 298 without accescories. Just yesterday I managed to talk down an Enfield by 50 (from 250 to 200 with taxes and fees figured in). Try that with an internet dealer! :D

[MikePGS]

Erik F is definitely right.

However, if after computing the shipping cost, transfer fees and what not, if there is still a ridiculous difference in price, I'll take the better price every time.

There's a gun shop around me that I love going to. The range is nice, clean and well ventilated, the sales people are helpful and courteous, and it's close by. However, they have the most awful prices in the whole area. If it was a minor amount of difference, they would be my go to guys... but i'm talking at least 70 dollars or so more on each gun I'm interested in. When it comes time to purchase a gun (if i'm still living in Michigan) I'll definitely make an offer to them... but i wouldn't be surprised if they thought it was outrageous, even if it was what everyone else was selling it for.

[tntwatt]

I occassionally buy a gun on the net and ship it to my local dealer. He knows that I only do this when I catch one of those amazing deals. If the net is only going to beat his price buy a few dollars, he knows I'll be buying from him. It's worth it to me to support his business. Plus I get generally better deals with him because of our relationship.

[44AMP]

There are gun dealers, and then there are gun dealers. Last pistol I bought from a gun shop had a fair, but not great price on it (and it was used). I told the counter guy, "you eat the tax and I'll buy it today." He did, I did, I think we both went away happy.

The shop I usually visit will usually give a little on used and new (maybe not much, but for me it is the principle more than the actual amount), but will not budge a penny on consignment items. Lay away is ok on stuff they own, but again, not on consignment items. All in all, I think them pretty reasonable.

[5knives]

Forty years ago the Camera business was as bad or worse then the gun business is today.

Every Magazine had a couple dozen ads with prices on average 40% less than any dealer could begin to afford to sell for.

When asked to meet a mail order price, they got the "We service what we sell" spiel , (and we meant it.) Then they got a choice either A, B, or C.

A. we'll meet that price on exactly the same terms, you cough up the cash or plastic, checks take 14 days longer, we'll charge a similar s&H fee and in a couple weeks we'll mail your item to you. Don't come in and ask for help, advice or tips, and if you think it's defective ... mail it back to the importer.

OR
Buy it now at a 20% discount from MSRP, (our avg. price) and we'll give you full service and instruction.

OR

But it now at msrp and we'll match the ad by giving you 40% in Merchandise that you're going to turn around and buy anyhow, Cases, tripods, filters, straps, tripods, etc. full service included.

We were EXTREMLY successful!

Customers from all 50 States and several foreign countries in the end.

Often wondered why so few Gun dealers have ever figured it out!

Even told a couple about it but they didn't quite "get it".

Regards,
:)

[Wes Janson]

Because for the vast majority of firearms, dropping 40% off of MSRP isn't even remotely feasible.

Asking for the best price is entirely reasonable and normal. However, what pisses me off is when someone walks in and gets upset because we can't price match out the door a weapon on Gunbroker.

Or the people who will walk in and say something like this:

"Hey, do you have that new Ruger LCP?"
"Yup, we only have the one."
"That price is way too high, I can buy one online for $250. Your prices suck."

[moewadle]

I was talking about above when I was talking about courtesy and respect. People that come in a gun shop and do that are only proving how inconsiderate, rude, and arrogant they are. It is too bad that being a good business person usually requires a shop owner to be courteous to them.

[5knives]

"Because for the vast majority of firearms, dropping 40% off of MSRP isn't even remotely feasible"

Hmmm, guess I wasn't clear enough to explain that well. letys try again.

The percentage amount of the discount required to make the sale is immaterial. I doubt that anyone is offering that sort of discount in the firearms trade. So use figures of 10% or 20% or whatever instead.

But giving the customer a reason to buy from YOU is very material.

Giving a customer a $40 case (which cost me $9.00) and a $50 Tripod (which cost me $23) is pretty darn cheap to make a msrp $225 sale isn't it? Well , it was then in that business.

Especially if I'm reasonably competitive on all the accessories that I stock. I don't care about the Camera, I want his Film, Flashbulb, Photofinishing and battery business forever. (Yes I understand that's a dated example. Just an illustration.)

Look at computer printers, they virtually give the printer away and make it up on the ink cartridges.

The point is in giving the customer a discount that he values and which doesn't cost me as much as I'm giving him! Everyone benefits.

Too many small dealers are in the gun business and not in the shooting sports business, as in a good selection of ammo, reloading equipment, optics and other accessories. A store full of guns (the most easily price pressured and compared item going) and nothing else and they wonder why they're having problems.

And that "Jerk" customer?

Bend over backwards to satisfy him/her ... because an unhappy customer will tell a hundred people why he dislikes your store and a happy customer MIGHT tell three, if he really likes you and feels he was treated fairly.

How do you satisfy an angry customer?

Ask him what he thinks is fair!

95 times out of a hundred he wants far less than you are prepared to spend keep him happy.

And as for the employees, get the best most respected, knowledgeable and honest peoople you can find and pay them more than they can make anywhere else. They'll make you rich if you remember to say thank you every once in a while.

I learned all those little secrets from people far wiser than I am, and we even shared our "secrets" with our competitors. No one copied us.

Seems that in sole ownership businesses, egos are sometimes more important than proifits.

Oh Well, JMHO ... YMMV

Regards,
:)