Possible move to Michigan...what do I need to know about gun laws?


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iamkris
April 10, 2008, 05:57 PM
I was laid off from my job in the Chicago area and I've narrowed my offers down to 2. One is in the St. Joseph area of Michigan.

I'm looking forward to not having a Firearm Owner's ID card anymore and getting a CCW. On the down side, I know about the permit/safety inspection for handguns (ridiculous requirement).

Any thing else I should know about Michigan and it's gun laws?

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poor_richard
April 10, 2008, 06:02 PM
I would recommend you check out this site:

http://www.migunowners.org/forum/index.php

GigaBuist
April 10, 2008, 06:03 PM
Machine guns are OK but no SBRs, SBSs, or sound supressors.

Anything that can fire in a configuration under 30" is a pistol by Michigan law. So, things like the Kel-Tec Sub 2k or a PGO shotgun w/ an 18.5" barrel have to be safety inspected. Funny side effect of that is then you can leave one loaded up in the passenger compartment of the car w/ a CCW.

iamkris
April 10, 2008, 09:22 PM
Anything that can fire in a configuration under 30" is a pistol by Michigan law.

What about a folding stock Para FAL? I have a 16" para that when the stock is folded, it is shorter than 30" and it is still possible to fire it...in that case, I need to get it "safety inspected"?

What is done in the safety inspection? Is there a record of what firearms I have kept?

hanno
April 10, 2008, 09:50 PM
What is done in the safety inspection? Is there a record of what firearms I have kept?

The clerk at the police station will just log the make, model, serial number, etc. and forward the info to the MI State Police. There is no "safety inspection" as such.
"Safety inspection" is really just another term for registration.

Winchester 73
April 10, 2008, 09:56 PM
I was laid off from my job in the Chicago area

This sounds like a blessing in disquise.My brother lives in surburban Chicago.He would like the same second chance you are getting.
Congratulations and good fortune in the Wolverine State.

ServiceSoon
April 10, 2008, 10:33 PM
YOu can own an sbr if it is a machine gun.

Michigan law about sbr's are not crystal clear. There is a small group on here that are trying to get Michael Cox to give an opinion on the matter.

blackhawk2000
April 10, 2008, 11:07 PM
Yep any pistols, or rifles under 30" when folded, or collapsed provided it still fires in said collapsed position is considered a pistol. Any "pistol" you own needs to be taken to your local police station, and "inspected", AKA registered :rolleyes: No SBR's and SBS as stated unless it has the fun switch. This is also up to debate in concern to C&R guns being legal to convert to SBR, and SBS. CCW is shall issue.

Michigans economy is in the crapper right now. Are you sure you want to move here? There are other more gun friendly states, with better economies right now, relatively close to Il.

Trebor
April 11, 2008, 12:29 AM
I grew up in St Joe. It's a great place.

Houses in the actual city of St Joe can be pricey, but prices drop when you get into the surronding areas a bit.

You will need to ger your handguns "Safety Inspected." Don't skip that as it as a Misdeamoner and the guns will be confiscated if they are not "Safety inspected."

You only have a certain period of time to do it after you move into the state, so don't put it off.

You'll need to get that Para Fal "safety inspected" as well. My advice is to take the regular handguns in first so you get an idea for the process.

The good news is Michigan is a "Shall issue" CCW state. You have to take a training class and be a resident for (IIRC) six months before you can apply for a Michigan Concealed Pistol License. It's not hard to find a class.

iamkris
April 11, 2008, 01:21 AM
This sounds like a blessing in disquise

Yeah, I crab about Illinois politics all the time...but we have roots here, love our town, friends, schools, etc. Tough to leave a good thing...then again, I don't have a job anywhere near where I'm living and the severance is running out.

Michigans economy is in the crapper right now.

I'll stay away from Detroit and the auto industry. Other offer I'm taking seriously is in Indiana with much better gun laws and economy but the town I'd be moving to is not nearly as nice at St. Joe.

You only have a certain period of time to do it after you move into the state, so don't put it off.

Good info...thanks.

sithanas
April 11, 2008, 09:00 AM
IMPORTANT

Not only are firearms under 30 inches in length considered pistols, but anything that's not a pistol as defined by the ATF and can fire while under 26 inches in length is a SBR under MI law. SBRs are illegal. This means that rifles such as the UZI carbine (which I believe is 24 inches in its shortest fireable configuration) are ILLEGAL in Michigan.

PITA, I know.

nelson133
April 11, 2008, 05:12 PM
The Kel-Tec Sub 2000 is not a pistol in Michigan because it can't be fired when folded and is over 30 inches when capable of firing. Your folding stock rifle or pistol grip shotgun is a pistol and must be registered.

blackhawk2000
April 11, 2008, 10:21 PM
I believe the sub2K can be had without the recoil pad, and it is then a pistol.

Michigan IS the auto industry. That's really all we had. Everything revolved around it. Now a lot of the auto ind. is out of work, or working somewhere else for a lot less money. The entire state is suffering because we put our eggs all in 1 fat laden basket.

Clipper
April 11, 2008, 10:58 PM
One thing about CC here though, is that there are a LOT of shooters in this state, and you tend to find the vast majority have little or no problem with the concept. Antis tend to stay in the metropolitan areas. The inhabitants of the smaller towns are much more realistic. Good fishing and hunting makes for a state full of sportsmen.

DutchmanDick
April 12, 2008, 05:55 PM
Michigan is also a "shall issue" CCW state, which means that if you don't have a history of criminal or mental problems they HAVE to issue a concealed carry permit. A Michigan CCW also allows you to carry a loaded hangun within easy access in your vehicle. You may NOT carry in any place that gets more than 50% of its business selling alcohol in open containers (e.g., bars), sports arenas, schools (though a parent with a CCW MAY have their gun on them if they are picking up or dropping off their kids, provided the armed parents stay within their vehicle), or movie theaters that have a capacity of over a certain number of people (I think it's 1500, but don't quote me on it).

In order to buy a handgun, you must first go to the local police, sheriff's, or state police post and get a "purchase permit" (which you have to fill out and have notarized). Then, when you buy the handgun, you take it back to the law enforcement agency that issued the purchase permit (you have 14 days to do so, I believe), and they do the so-called "safety inspection". Note that if you have a CCW, you don't have to get a purchase permit. There is a special form that you fill out at the seller's; you get one copy, the seller gets one copy, and the original copy gets sent to the state police in Lansing.

Michigan is also a "castle doctrine" state, which means that if you are attacked you are under no obligation to retreat if you are any place you have any business being in the first place, and may use whatever force necessary within reason (up to and including deadly force, if necessary to preserve life and limb) to stop the attack.

Black powder handguns are considered "antiques" and do not require a purchase permit. However, cartridge firing handguns that are classified a s"antiques" under federal law (1898 or older, in other words), DO require a purchase permit if ammunition is still being made for it.

Clipper
April 12, 2008, 06:48 PM
Michigan is also a "shall issue" CCW state, which means that if you don't have a history of criminal or mental problems they HAVE to issue a concealed carry permit. A Michigan CCW also allows you to carry a loaded hangun within easy access in your vehicle. You may NOT carry in any place that gets more than 50% of its business selling alcohol in open containers (e.g., bars), sports arenas, schools (though a parent with a CCW MAY have their gun on them if they are picking up or dropping off their kids, provided the armed parents stay within their vehicle), or movie theaters that have a capacity of over a certain number of people (I think it's 1500, but don't quote me on it).

I believe it's 2500.

In order to buy a handgun, you must first go to the local police, sheriff's, or state police post and get a "purchase permit" (which you have to fill out and have notarized). Then, when you buy the handgun, you take it back to the law enforcement agency that issued the purchase permit (you have 14 days to do so, I believe), and they do the so-called "safety inspection". Note that if you have a CCW, you don't have to get a purchase permit. There is a special form that you fill out at the seller's; you get one copy, the seller gets one copy, and the original copy gets sent to the state police in Lansing.

It's 10 days, and you can download the sales form online, so with a CCW, there is no need to use a FFL for FTF transfers, though the buyer must still take his copy and the pistol to the local law to be inspected and have the required green card issued.

burk
April 12, 2008, 08:53 PM
I have a MI CCW, and I was carrying at the Detroit Auto show this year. It says "seating capacity" of 2500, well the auto show doesn't have seating and I don't like walking around downtown Detroit without protection. Anyway, they had a sign, just as I was entering the show AFTER I purchased my tickets, "no dangerous weapons allowed" and they were wanding everybody at the entrance. Well I figured I'd show them my permit and see what happens. Anyway, I showed the sixteen year old security guard my permit, and he barley looked at it and said, show it to the ticket guy. I think he thought it was a license. :D He wanded me and somehow my 4" Kimber didn't set off his metal detector (not the first time). Anyway the ticket guy wasn't wanding anyone so I just walked in. ;) The amazing thing was how many people probably thought they were safe from weapons because of the incompetent security guards who couldn't have prevented a Barrett .50 from getting thru the door.:D

MI is all in all a pretty good firearms state, even the Democrat controlled state congress won't let the Liberal Democrat governor from doing anything against gun freedom, because of the blue collar gun loving nature of many of the democrat voters. Their are also some GREAT gun shops in the state. Jays will blow your mind up in Claire MI.

RDak
April 13, 2008, 03:46 AM
You're moving to a gun friendly State.

The pistol permit system is old, (i.e., IIRC enacted in 1927 during the "gangster" era).

Bills are sitting idle in the State Legislature that would repeal the old pistol purchase permit system and just rely on the new NICS system.

When and if that happens, Michigan will be a VERY gun friendly State.

iamkris
April 13, 2008, 07:21 PM
Thanks for all the great replies, guys.

The two states I'm considering are Indiana and Michigan...BOTH are better than Illinois.

electronrider
April 14, 2008, 02:48 PM
Where in Indiana are you considering?

iamkris
April 14, 2008, 05:00 PM
Warsaw area.

Ringer
April 14, 2008, 11:29 PM
When and if that happens, Michigan will be a VERY gun friendly State.

I dunno about "VERY". Maybe a step in the right direction but the registration requirement to me is far worse than the permit process. As far as I know there is nothing in the works to change that.

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