Kel-Tec P11 vs. S&W Sigma 9mm


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dispatch55126
April 11, 2008, 08:15 AM
Gander Mtn has both of these on sale for $299. The Kel-Tec only comes with a 10 round mag but the S&W comes with (3) 16 round mags.

I haven't handled either yet, but want opinions between the two.

Thanks.

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SHOOT1SAM
April 11, 2008, 09:02 AM
I like them both. For the same price, I'd go for the Sigma w/ 3 mags.

Sam

flyby
April 11, 2008, 09:56 AM
The P11 significantly easier to conceal and 12rd flush fit LE mags are available for 12+1 ..the Sigma on the other hand would obviously be the better shooting range gun and still be somewhat easy to conceal ..depending.

NG VI
April 11, 2008, 10:38 AM
My Sigma is very easy to conceal IWB, at least compared to a USP. It's perfectly reliable, I don't know anything but other user reviews of Kel-tecs but I have not heard "flawless" all that often to describe the Kel-Tec.

MCgunner
April 11, 2008, 11:05 AM
My P11 fits in my pocket and I bet it's about as accurate as the Sigma. Mine will group 25 yard 3.5" off the bench. It takes a little practice, but I can mow down 6" plates easily at 25 yards off hand and fairly rapidly with it. Since I can't IWB most days due to dress and activities, I pocket carry, so if pocket carry is your desire, the P11 is a no brainer. I do have a very nice tuckable Rosen Workman holster for it, but never use it anymore. I pocket the gun. It has been 100 percent reliable with 115 JHPs for 12 years now. Completely FLAWLESS. Now you've heard it. You might condemn it for the trigger. I like the trigger, personally, very smooth with a slight stage at the end, light compared to revolver DAs and a long throw for safe carry.

If you'll never pocket carry, I'm sure the Sigma is a good gun, though I've heard rants on the baby Sigmas of the past. I've never owned a Smith auto, though.

SCBradley
April 11, 2008, 03:36 PM
I've bought both, but only the Sigma remains. Both have crappy triggers and a lifetime warranty. For concealment, the Kel-Tec wins.

As for accuracy and reliability, the Sigma's been flawless and "minute of bad guy" at 25 yards. The trigger smoothed out to about 8 pounds after about 250 rounds.

The Kel-Tec however, wouldn't chamber any HP ammo I tried. I used different brands, weights and mags; nothing.

I use the Sigma for ccw when I'm working outside or know I gonna be rough on a gun, and it's taken everything I've thrown at it.

MCgunner
April 11, 2008, 03:40 PM
The only hollow points I've heard the P11 doesn't like is 147s. There are many reports of it not liking the round, probably the OAL, not sure. Mine has eaten a slew of 115 grain both Winchester and Hornady 115 XTP. It's never coughed. If it did, KT has at least AS good a lifetime warranty and customer service, if not better than S&W.

I also shoot a 105 grain SWC in the gun, hand cast, sized to .356, and loaded rather light with Bullseye. Eats 'em like ball. I never fluffed and buffed squat, but I hear tell some folks do that.

NG VI
April 11, 2008, 03:46 PM
I like the Sigma partly because I don't care what happens to it all that much. As a matter of principle I like to keep all my guns looking sparkly and new, but the Kydex holster I won't put my CZ in (for fit as well as finish longevity) holds the Sigma securely and I don't think it will touch the brushed stainless finish at all. and if it does, whatever.

SkiShoot
April 11, 2008, 04:09 PM
Plus the Sigma still has the $50 rebate and 2 free mags... so that's $249 w/ 5 mags?! geez... that is cheap.

MCgunner
April 11, 2008, 07:49 PM
Now, I ain't sayin' I wouldn't like a Sigma, TOO! :D My favorite Smith, though, is the rather expensive 3913NL. Wow, whadda sexy looking gun and a great shooter, too! If you wanna IWB, the thing is a thin single stack, but a little heavy I'll admit. Not real porky, though.

Travis McGee
April 11, 2008, 09:22 PM
For every day CCW, Kel Tec. That is my daily carry gun.

SCBradley
April 13, 2008, 07:30 PM
MCgunner, I'm not saying the P-11 is junk. Nobody else I talked to seems to have had a problem with their P-11 and HP's, but mine certainly did.

I tried 115's, 124's and 147's; from federal, speer, rem, Hornady and win. Every one of them got hung up on a little ledge in between the feed ramp and barrel.

Kel-Tec would, from all accounts, have made it right for free if I had been the original owner. However I bought it used from Cabela's, so I just returned it.

billymac
April 13, 2008, 08:32 PM
Sigma...don't know much about the Kel-Tech

MCgunner
April 13, 2008, 09:07 PM
I tried 115's, 124's and 147's; from federal, speer, rem, Hornady and win. Every one of them got hung up on a little ledge in between the feed ramp and barrel.

What "ledge"? The feed ramp is integral with the barrel on the KT, not any of it is part of the frame like a 1911. There's no such ledge on mine to hang on. If there was, it'd need to be filed/polished away. Perhaps yours had a casting flaw, possible there. Kel Tec would either have polished it or replaced the barrel, probably. I have heard of 'em replacing the whole firearm, but that sounds like it was probably something simple and obvious.

The P11 is one of those guns that grows on ya as you get used to it. Kahr also makes a great pocket sized 9mm if you wanna spend the money. It's smaller than a Sigma, but quite a bit more expensive. Then there's the Rohrbaugh, but even the spend thrifts on this board, for the most part, agree it's pricey. Ain't just my cheap butt that think's that. LOL

SCBradley
April 13, 2008, 11:29 PM
The feed ramp on mine didn't lead directly into the chamber. There was a 1/32" ledge from the chamber mouth down to the feed ramp. The nose of HP's ran straight into it and hung up.

Maybe it was a flaw. In the end taking it back to Cabela's for a refund made more sense to me than spending more money on a used gun to send it to KT.

MCgunner
April 13, 2008, 11:49 PM
Hmm, yep, I'm betting that was your problem. Mine is smooth all the way into the chamber mouth, no ledges or anything.

Well, damn, I was going to try to shoot a pic of it and crop and upload and all that to get you a pic of it, but my friggin' camera batteries are dead and I don't have any here. Oh, well, even yanked it out of my pocket and pulled it apart. :banghead: Just looking at it, the feed ramp on mine looks polished, bright and shiny smooth. I think that's a result of over 11,000 rounds feeding up it in the last 12 years, though. :D

If it was a USED gun in the first place, I'm thinking some dork with a dremel tool got to it. Never know, but that sure don't sound like MY feed ramp. LOL Actually, KT would have sent you a new barrel free of charge. They do stuff like that.

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