[Nathaniel Firethorn]

http://nj.com/columns/ledger/mclaughlin/index.ssf?/base/columns-0/1060751804222640.xml
Under fire for taking a shot at the geese

Wednesday, August 13, 2003

Charles Clarke and his wife, Nancy, live in West New York hard by the Hudson River, and they regard themselves as friends to the neighborhood birds -- gulls and cormorants, mostly. Plus, they provide a good home for an Amazon parrot.

Clarke, who is 75, is a retired public relations consultant. Eight years ago, the Clarkes bought a vacation home in Birchwood Lakes, a gated community in Dingman's Ferry, which is right across the Delaware River from the northwest corner of Sussex County.

It would be a good investment. The property fronts on a lake, and it served as an attractive draw for the Clarkes' six grandchildren.

In 1995, the Clarkes encountered only a few Canada geese. As is their wont, the geese relieved themselves on the Clarke property with great regularity, but it was nothing the Clarkes couldn't handle with their trusty garden hose.

But the numbers of geese increased year by year until it was not unusual for Clarke to find up to 50 geese in his spacious back yard, honking and eating and, of course, defecating.

"The yard," Clarke said, "became a mess -- goose poop everywhere."

Clarke began to worry about the health of his grandchildren, who were running barefoot through glops of goose feces. Canada geese are defecation machines, depositing their wastes on an average of more than once an hour.

According to Clarke's research, "geese are carriers of giardia and cryptosporidium, an organism that causes diarrhea, abdominal cramps and nausea. E-coli, too, and that can be fatal. If it does not kill, it can cause kidney failure or brain damage."

He began to throw stones at the geese invading his back yard.

"I didn't hit any," Clarke said. "I wasn't trying to. Matter of fact, I tried to miss them. I just wanted to scare them off."

But we're talking here about birds that don't back off from golfers armed with nine irons.

They ignored the stoning. Next step was the employment of his grandson's cap gun. The geese shrugged and refused to be startled.

Finally, Clarke tried a BB gun. That worked, although Clarke is quick to say, "I never hit a single goose."

He didn't have to. The birds definitely did not like the sound of BBs hitting the ground. The geese were routed. Chalk one up for civilization.

But Clarke's victory was short- lived. He was turned in to the Birchwood Lakes Community Association Inc., and charges were brought by the enforcement arm of the homeowners' association -- the dread Resolution Committee.

So it was resolved that Clarke should be charged with hunting, cruelty to animals and the illegal discharge of a firearm.

Clarke was turned in by a woman homeowner on the other side of the lake who claimed that she saw him firing and that he put a bullet hole through her front window. He countered that his BB gun didn't have anywhere near that range and that his accuser was too far away to spot him in the act of shooting.

All to no avail. The Birchwood Lakes Community Association takes a hard line on nonconformists. It recently fined a homeowner $500 for stacking too much firewood in his yard.

Clarke defended himself against the hunting and cruelty-to-animals charges and they were dropped. But the Resolutions Committee nailed him on the illegal-discharge- of-a-firearm count.

In vain did he argue that a BB gun is not a firearm. The Resolutions Committee turned to Webster's, which defines "firearm" as "any weapon from which a shot is fired by the force of an explosion." That includes air rifles. Clarke was fined $1,025, which he paid but found "extortionate."

He suspects the geese of Birchwood Lakes are unwitting accomplices to the committee, which, he said, likes the revenue it gains from homeowners provoked into rash actions by geese. He notes that had he "punched the chairman of the Birchwood Lakes Association's Resolutions Committee in the nose, the fine would have only been $200."

Why should harassing geese be punished more harshly than attacking a human?

Are they really held in such high regard? Do they have friends in high places?

Well, if Charles Clarke had been caught firing BBs in the vicinity of 45 or 50 human beings doing in his yard what geese do, would he beat the rap?

You bet he would.

John McLaughlin is a Star-Ledger columnist.Even though I be forced to remain in PRNJ for the non, I will never, ever, ever live anyplace with a homeowners' association.

- pdmoderator

[TheeBadOne]

Tough situation. Geese do cause a mess. People who don't know/haven't seen can't understand. I wonder if he'll try a slingshot next time? Perhaps some Eagle decoys? Maybe he needs a nice Black Lab? :D

[HankB]

"any weapon from which a shot is fired by the force of an explosion." That includes air rifles. No, it doesn't. Compressed air is not an "explosion." had he "punched the chairman of the Birchwood Lakes Association's Resolutions Committee in the nose, the fine would have only been $200." IMHO it would have been worth it.

This kind of garbage is just another reason to make me glad I was smart enough to deliberately avoid buying a home where there's a homeowner's association. I'd probably get in more trouble - if caught! - by doing something against the rules involving the snitch across the lake and the members of the Resolutions Committee.

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

HankB, sadly under PRNJ law a BB gun is explicitly considered to be a firearm.2C:39-1 Definitions.

2C:39-1. Definitions. The following definitions apply to this chapter and to chapter 58:

f."Firearm" means any handgun, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, automatic or semi-automatic rifle, or any gun, device or instrument in the nature of a weapon from which may be fired or ejected any solid projectable ball, slug, pellet, missile or bullet, or any gas, vapor or other noxious thing, by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances. It shall also include, without limitation, any firearm which is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person.What that means in practice is that most people wanting to purchase a BB gun cross the Delaware River to the United States (in the reverse of the direction that George Washington took) and get one in bubble-pack from Wally World.

- pdmoderator

[Erik]

He shouldn't be shooting geese.

That said, it iseems like a heavy handed response from the authorities.

And what's with his HOA? I'd move.

[Leatherneck]

He shouldn't be shooting geese.
And why, exactly, not? Throughout the mid-atlantic seaboard, they've become nothing more than pests, as have whitetail deer and other less noble creatures. Man has thrown nature out of whack by eradicating natural predators while protecting the cuddly or "pretty" ones. I't's ridiculous to willingly subject ones self to living in goose crap, or enduring the predation of four-legged vegetarians.
He should have been granted a permit to eliminate nuisance waterfowl out of season until the problem ceased. :fire:

TC
TFL Survivor

[critter]

The PRNJ considers the BB gun a firearm reminds me of an old joke.

If you consider a dog's tail another leg, how many legs does he have?

Answer: 5

WRONG!!!!!!! Just because you CONSIDER his tail a leg, does NOT make it a leg!

Silliness gone rampant and wild in NJ!

[Gmac]

Once again, the inmates are in charge of the assylum.

[foghornl]

That is what happens many times to a "protected" species....They become a major nuisance species. Some places around Cleveland you can't enjoy the parks or the golf courses anymore because of the geese and their resi-doo-doo....."Hey, who is playing a greenish-gray Top-Flite #5?"

[PeteyPete]

Only in the PRNJ......As a resident, i'm not surprised.

[KC]

"That said, it iseems like a heavy handed response from the authorities."

An HOA is/are not the authorities. It is a collection of community rules that you have to sign to buy property in a given area. The HOA facists cannot collect unless they take their victim to court and win a judgement.

The second-best way to deal with an HOA is to ignore it. The best way (and the most fun, though more time-consuming) is to get on the committees and be as obstructionist as humanly possible. Then there is the option my uncle took--he and his immediate neighbors got tired of the senile citizens harrassing them, and secceded from the existing HOA to set up their own.:D (Apparently, they could not simply quit, but could form their own committee.)


KC

[JohnBT]

"...they've become nothing more than pests..."

Now that's not true...they still taste good. Yum.

The James through Richmond is full of smallmouth and catfish and some gar, but it's very difficult to rockhop the rapids and fish anymore because the layer of goose poop on the rocks is so thick and slippery. Not conducive to sunbathing either.

I'm waiting for them to learn to perch on the monuments on Monument Avenue like the pigeons. :)

I do see where they're getting ready to wipe out a large segment of the Mute Swan population on the Eastern Shore. They tear stuff up roots and all.

John

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

My wife pointed out to me that this actually happened in Pennsylvania, not PRNJ! :eek:

Dingman's Ferry is definitely in PA.

- pdmoderator

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

See this thread... the events sound like PRNJ, but they're in (ostensibly) Free Pennsylvania!

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35518


- pdmoderator

[Mike Irwin]

Whoops, I read the article incorrectly. They're across the river from Sussex County... Sigh. Geezerdom here I come.

You SURE they're in Pennsylvania?

I believe Sussex County is in New Jersey.

There's no Sussex County in Pennsylvania.

And besides, Canada geese are migratory, and thus come under Federal regulations. He's lucky he doesn't have Fed Fish & Wildlife calling.

And yeah, geese are a hideous pain in the butt.

[HBK]

He should've used a shotgun and had goose for dinner.

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

Eight years ago, the Clarkes bought a vacation home in Birchwood Lakes, a gated community in Dingman's Ferry, which is right across the Delaware River from the northwest corner of Sussex County.Dingman's Ferry is in Pennsylvania. No doubt about it.

At first, I'd thought they were across the river from Dingman's Ferry. Crank up the Guy Lombardo...

- pdmoderator

[Mikul]

Those geese are a big problem in this area. There are so many of them that they've actually defecated ponds to death. The ponds turn a nice green foamy color and all of the fish die. State parks have been closed due to health concerns over the goose crap.

There has been consideration for creating a Canadian Goose season in PA.

It's legal to hit them with your car, however. Five years ago, people would always wait for the geese to walk across roadways (which happened frequently), recently, I've seen three cars deliberately run them down.

[Mike Irwin]

"There has been consideration for creating a Canadian Goose season in PA."

Canadian Goose?

How do you tell? Do you have to ask for their passport before shooting them? :)

I thought Pennsylvania already had a goose season.

14 years ago when I was with the paper I wrote an article about Canada Geese and the problems they were causing.

[M67]

The Birchwood Lakes Community Association takes a hard line on nonconformists. It recently fined a homeowner $500 for stacking too much firewood in his yard. It's a good thing this happened in the land of the free... I shudder at the thought of what this would have done for y'all's blood pressure if it had been a quote from a Limey newspaper. :D

[dinosaur]

Well, if they`re Canadian they`re probably not armed. :evil: :neener: :what: :D

[Standing Wolf]

...the numbers of geese increased year by year until it was not unusual for Clarke to find up to 50 geese in his spacious back yard...

Maybe nobody's been hunting geese in recent years.

[JohnBT]

Geese are hunted in Virginia, but now there are local populations living in places where hunting isn't allowed...parks, golf courses, etc. They don't migrate, they just eat and make messes.

Yum.

John

[KC]

"It's a good thing this happened in the land of the free... I shudder at the thought of what this would have done for y'all's blood pressure if it had been a quote from a Limey newspaper."

Something important to remember is that it is not the local governmnet pulling this BS, but his neighbors. Not a lot of difference, but some.

HOA's are dangerous entities. Every once in a while your hear about one that is involved in a protracted court action, and/or looses messily. Members get unhappy bills and a few have lost their houses because the HOA ran amok and the assets of members seized.

An HOA is useful when it keeps the streets maintained or a roof fund, but not when it gets intrusive and does damfool things like this.

[TarpleyG]

Not to start an argument about where these folks live but I read:
Charles Clarke and his wife, Nancy, live in West New York hard by the Hudson River, and they regard themselves as friends to the neighborhood birds -- gulls and cormorants, mostly. Plus, they provide a good home for an Amazon parrot.

Clarke, who is 75, is a retired public relations consultant. Eight years ago, the Clarkes bought a vacation home in Birchwood Lakes, a gated community in Dingman's Ferry, which is right across the Delaware River from the northwest corner of Sussex County.

So, where do these people live, NY state or PA?

GT

[EOD Guy]

Not to start an argument about where these folks live but I read:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Clarke and his wife, Nancy, live in West New York hard by the Hudson River, and they regard themselves as friends to the neighborhood birds -- gulls and cormorants, mostly. Plus, they provide a good home for an Amazon parrot.

Clarke, who is 75, is a retired public relations consultant. Eight years ago, the Clarkes bought a vacation home in Birchwood Lakes, a gated community in Dingman's Ferry, which is right across the Delaware River from the northwest corner of Sussex County.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So, where do these people live, NY state or PA?

GT

West New York is a town in New Jersey. The Zip Code is 07093.

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

They live in NJ, but the events in question happened at their vacation home in PA.

(Heck, if I had a vacation home in PA, I'd have a PA driver's license! ;) )

- pdmoderator

[Hawkman]

When Canada geese nested on the small pond in our neighborhood two years ago we thought it was cute. Now the (expletive deleteds) are here year round and you can't walk around the pond for the goose poop. Plus, they chase kids, etc. etc.

BB gun sounds good to me!

[TheeBadOne]

Hawkman is reflecting what I said. If you haven't had geese you have no idea of the mess they make. A virtual landfill of dung in the area they hang out. I still say a dog to chase them could be usefull in some situations. ;)

[gun-fucious]

My buddy the farmer has his dogs run off the geese when ever they show up,
the parasites they carry get into his cows.

Here in MD we now have non migratory geese that have set up shop in the highway medians

We need coyotes!

[STW]

I've an 80 year old aunt that keeps a slingshot and a bag of marbles handy for the neighborhood pests. Her yard stays remarkedly clear.:D

[dinosaur]

Dingbat`s Ferry, Marshall`s Creek etc. are loaded with NYC, Philly and Jerseyites. The screech ninny is probably from one of those places.

What annoys me is the local Weather talkingheads say I live in the Poconos. Not!

[Jon B]

No, it doesn't. Compressed air is not an "explosion." IMHO it would have been worth it.

This kind of garbage is just another reason to make me glad I was smart enough to deliberately avoid buying a home where there's a homeowner's association. I'd probably get in more trouble - if caught! - by doing something against the rules involving the snitch across the lake and the members of the Resolutions Committee.
Compressed air is not an explosive force until released abruptly. As in the case of air guns.

[Jon B]

The demon Geese love our favorite grass in our lawns. Even more so if we use nice fertilizers.

There is nice lawn grass and fertilizer that geese do not like at all.
Shoot that into your yard and the geese will be encouraged to go to the complaining neighbor's yard.

Jon

[bushmaster1313]

Do dem geese make good eatin?

[JellyJar]

I don't hunt so perhaps I don't know what I am saying but perhaps there shouldn't be any bag limits for Canada Geese for the next few seasons.

I live in North Alabama and there are a lot around here. Some stay year round!

[wishin]

I live on a lake and we have a geese problem, as I believe all lakes do to a varying degree. All it takes is to shout as you walk towards them and they start to amble away into the water. I'll usually leave them alone when the goslings show up in May, but once they're grown they get chased away along with their parents, friends, uncles and cousins. BTW, if they nest in your yard, the progeny come back there to nest just like salmon do.

[627PCFan]

Easy solution. Fishing line stretched in a grid pattern of 5 foot squares suspended on poles across their landing area. They will either get wrapped up and hang themselves or decide landing is too tricky and go somewhere else. Usually if result 1 occurs a few times they take note. Nothing like making a couple of examples.

[Colonel]

Two words: Punt gun.

That is, unless you like having your yard covered with molybdenum grease!

[Deltaboy]

Another reason I will never buy any thing within a HOA. HOA are unamerican.

[NMGonzo]

Bow and arrow.

Or a pet alligator.

[SharpsDressedMan]

"If you fire your BB gun from inside the house, back from the window, in the shadows,".............:D

[BeerSleeper]

This is nothing that couldn't be solved with a night watch, night vision goggles, a suppressed .22, and subsonic ammo. Don't be a democrat, take initiative and solve your own problems.
Happy Hunting, and someone needs to win an award for thread revival.

[yeti]

someone needs to win an award for thread revival.


It's like the Canada Geese, some things just never go away.

[mgkdrgn]

Die Zombie thread, die!

[FLAvalanche]

"There has been consideration for creating a Canadian Goose season in PA."

Canadian Goose?

How do you tell? Do you have to ask for their passport before shooting them? :)

I thought Pennsylvania already had a goose season.

14 years ago when I was with the paper I wrote an article about Canada Geese and the problems they were causing.
They're the ones that go "HONK....eh!".

[Guns and more]

It's what happens when you give petty people a bit of power.
And why we should never let the PC crowd have any power. They will never stop.

[Art Eatman]

Ah, necrothreadia...